• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 06:43
CET 12:43
KST 20:43
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies0ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !10Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Micro Lags When Playing SC2? When will we find out if there are more tournament Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win
Tourneys
$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $100 Prize Pool - Winter Warp Gate Masters Showdow Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1 RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14!
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement
Brood War
General
Klaucher discontinued / in-game color settings BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Anyone remember me from 2000s Bnet EAST server? How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle
Tourneys
[BSL21] LB QuarterFinals - Sunday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] WB SEMIFINALS - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
The (Hidden) Drug Problem in…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1812 users

Situation Report: August 31, 2012 by David Kim - Page 5

Forum Index > SC2 General
950 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 46 47 48 Next All
eleaf
Profile Joined September 2011
526 Posts
August 31 2012 16:50 GMT
#81
Adjust balance of the game based on a few set of games from uneven players. Good job Blizzard good job!
strength
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States493 Posts
August 31 2012 16:50 GMT
#82
On September 01 2012 01:47 AzBozz wrote:
its just the thing that zerg is in my opnion soo much easier to play with lower apm and also its so much easier to fungal a army than to spread and micro while being attacked TT ( mid master terran)


No one cares about Mid master terran opinions... Mid master anything is bad. This is why they only use pro tournaments as statistics.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 31 2012 16:50 GMT
#83
On September 01 2012 01:44 Solarist wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 01:30 Plansix wrote:
On September 01 2012 01:27 TheDwf wrote:
On September 01 2012 01:24 TechNoTrance wrote:
People whine when blizz makes changes too quickly without enough testing. People whine when blizz is patient and careful about making changes with a fair amount of testing.

Standard.

People complain when Blizzard makes stupid and unnecessary changes to a good match-up. People complain when Blizzard refuses to adress the various problems created by said changes.

Fixed.


I dont agree with the TvZ was a great match up prior to the +2 queen range. I have a problem with a opening that was used on every map, every time. The only question was, "how many hellions will they build". But I guess it was nice for terrans to only have to know one build for the whole match up.


An opener that works on every map, every time? Are you talking about the 6 queen opener or what?

I hope you realise how hilariously ironic everything you just said is


But that ended pretty quickly. Now we see 4 queen builds with earlier pools coming back into style(MLG had tons of this) and we will see other styles come out as well.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
cLAN.Anax
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United States2847 Posts
August 31 2012 16:52 GMT
#84
On September 01 2012 01:16 xrapture wrote:
He truly is clueless. Mvp and Bomber beat some fucking foreigners at IEM and it proves TvZ is balanced? What a joke.

And I'm guessing he didn't even bother to watch MLG.


Those same "f-ing foreigners at IEM" managed to beat a few of the Koreans too. fOrGG lost to Vortix 3-0, for example....


I predict a Raven nerf incoming, believe it or not. Mvp's gonna win the next GSL (again... :-D) against Jaedong, specfically use Ravens, and Blizz is gonna nerf 'em. It's a suspicious trend for the great LG-IM Terran....

Plus, it also seems to me that whenever Terrans figure out how to use one or more of their units, they get nerfed rather dramatically, like the Ghost. I hope it's not the same once Sky Terran becomes better understood and more played.
┬─┬___(ツ)_/¯ 彡┻━┻ I am the 4%. "I cant believe i saw ANAL backwards before i saw the word LAN." - Capped
TsGBruzze
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Sweden1190 Posts
August 31 2012 16:52 GMT
#85
On September 01 2012 01:44 Thrillz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 01:42 Plansix wrote:
On September 01 2012 01:40 TheDwf wrote:
On September 01 2012 01:33 TechNoTrance wrote:
On September 01 2012 01:27 TheDwf wrote:
On September 01 2012 01:24 TechNoTrance wrote:
People whine when blizz makes changes too quickly without enough testing. People whine when blizz is patient and careful about making changes with a fair amount of testing.

Standard.

People complain when Blizzard makes stupid and unnecessary changes to a good match-up. People complain when Blizzard refuses to adress the various problems created by said changes.

Fixed.


So much bias in one post. Thanks for proving my point.

Yep, I guess even pros Zergs stating that Queen buff was unnecessary and made Zerg favored in ZvT are biased towards Terran. Makes a lot of sense.


Who are these pro-zergs? I need to see these quotes.


I think DRG and Symbol stated something similar to those lines in interviews.. someone will have to dig it up =\

Drg stated that it makes zerg easier and it was bad for him because now ledare Zergs eill look as Good as him;)
''you got to yolo things up to win''
SKYFISH_
Profile Joined April 2011
Bulgaria990 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-31 16:53:19
August 31 2012 16:53 GMT
#86
Gee, turns out I only have to play 2k games per season just like Kas does so I could get corporal turner's just like MVP...

This kind of statement would've been okay if it wasnt for the previous occasions when Terran was nerfed briskly and without much mercy.

Anyways, I still think the proposed raven ''buff'' is worthless, so no biggie
In Soviet Terranistan you rush the Zerg
Schlendrian
Profile Joined February 2012
49 Posts
August 31 2012 16:54 GMT
#87
Putting all balance issues aside,
I think the Queen range-buff made most of the pro-TvZs incredibly boring.

I used to love watching TvZs that were a back and forth, like: Terran goes Hellions for map-control and threatening the Zerg, maybe some drops, then Zerg goes Mutas - takes map-control and harrasses constantly, Ling runbys and all that good stuff, then a smooth transition into lategame...

Nowadays it's most of the time just a sit-and-wait till all are maxed out, then 1 fight...gg...

Since I'm only a noob I'm not sure if this is true, but IMO this game needs "threats" like Hellions used to be, or Mutas when people still used them, because it forces both parties to stay active with their units or invest into static defenses. And it seems like all those "threats" are gone now, which makes it less and less entertaining.


I guess I'll better watch the International now, cuz Chinese Dota is f-ing awesome
Solarist
Profile Joined September 2011
291 Posts
August 31 2012 16:54 GMT
#88
On September 01 2012 01:50 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 01:44 Solarist wrote:
On September 01 2012 01:30 Plansix wrote:
On September 01 2012 01:27 TheDwf wrote:
On September 01 2012 01:24 TechNoTrance wrote:
People whine when blizz makes changes too quickly without enough testing. People whine when blizz is patient and careful about making changes with a fair amount of testing.

Standard.

People complain when Blizzard makes stupid and unnecessary changes to a good match-up. People complain when Blizzard refuses to adress the various problems created by said changes.

Fixed.


I dont agree with the TvZ was a great match up prior to the +2 queen range. I have a problem with a opening that was used on every map, every time. The only question was, "how many hellions will they build". But I guess it was nice for terrans to only have to know one build for the whole match up.


An opener that works on every map, every time? Are you talking about the 6 queen opener or what?

I hope you realise how hilariously ironic everything you just said is


But that ended pretty quickly. Now we see 4 queen builds with earlier pools coming back into style(MLG had tons of this) and we will see other styles come out as well.


Is the 6 queen opener not a stable build that can be used in every single map? Yes or no?
If you wanna use the arguement just presented then Terran used other strategies aswell, sometimes it was cloak banshee, 2 rax and other early game stuff. But i guess we shoudent use that argument, because it makes your posting fall apart even more Moving on!

AzBozz
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany518 Posts
August 31 2012 16:54 GMT
#89
On September 01 2012 01:50 strength wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 01:47 AzBozz wrote:
its just the thing that zerg is in my opnion soo much easier to play with lower apm and also its so much easier to fungal a army than to spread and micro while being attacked TT ( mid master terran)


No one cares about Mid master terran opinions... Mid master anything is bad. This is why they only use pro tournaments as statistics.

then soon there will be no more terrans in the lower leagues. when im laddering out of 10 games i meet one terran. and soooo many zergs .
MMA | MVP|Teaja|Polt|MKP|Byun|Maru|Thorzain|Creator|HasuObs|Socke|Lucifron|Vortix|Mana|Heromarine / PRIME and Mousesports fighting!!
fds
Profile Joined February 2011
Slovenia258 Posts
August 31 2012 16:55 GMT
#90
Raven buff wouldn't solve TvZ situation either way according to avilo!
perser84
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany399 Posts
August 31 2012 16:56 GMT
#91
i wish they just nerf korean terrans
desarrisc
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Canada226 Posts
August 31 2012 16:56 GMT
#92
Come on, Blizzard made some decent changes that were considered as total bullshit when it initially came in.

i.e.
1) protoss upgrade cost decrease
2) snipe nerf
3) queen + overlord buff

and some that were not considered as bad:
1) corruption cd-base
2) blue flame hellion nerf
3) supply depot before rax
4) archon range +1/ massive-attribute

Now players seem to have adjusted to Blizzard's changes so that most matchups are pretty even and skill-based results.
"Your opponent's doing anything out of the ordinary? Just go f**king kill him." -Day [9]
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 31 2012 16:58 GMT
#93
On September 01 2012 01:54 Solarist wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 01:50 Plansix wrote:
On September 01 2012 01:44 Solarist wrote:
On September 01 2012 01:30 Plansix wrote:
On September 01 2012 01:27 TheDwf wrote:
On September 01 2012 01:24 TechNoTrance wrote:
People whine when blizz makes changes too quickly without enough testing. People whine when blizz is patient and careful about making changes with a fair amount of testing.

Standard.

People complain when Blizzard makes stupid and unnecessary changes to a good match-up. People complain when Blizzard refuses to adress the various problems created by said changes.

Fixed.


I dont agree with the TvZ was a great match up prior to the +2 queen range. I have a problem with a opening that was used on every map, every time. The only question was, "how many hellions will they build". But I guess it was nice for terrans to only have to know one build for the whole match up.


An opener that works on every map, every time? Are you talking about the 6 queen opener or what?

I hope you realise how hilariously ironic everything you just said is


But that ended pretty quickly. Now we see 4 queen builds with earlier pools coming back into style(MLG had tons of this) and we will see other styles come out as well.


Is the 6 queen opener not a stable build that can be used in every single map? Yes or no?
If you wanna use the arguement just presented then Terran used other strategies aswell, sometimes it was cloak banshee, 2 rax and other early game stuff. But i guess we shoudent use that argument, because it makes your posting fall apart even more Moving on!



From my understanding, the 6 queen opening has no ability to punish a terran if he is greedy, which is why people switched to 4 queens and an early pool. I think Liquid "I'll show you the meaning of greed" Teaja highlighted this during the IPTL finals when he was rushing to 3 and 4 command centers.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
August 31 2012 16:58 GMT
#94
On September 01 2012 01:50 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 01:44 Solarist wrote:
On September 01 2012 01:30 Plansix wrote:
On September 01 2012 01:27 TheDwf wrote:
On September 01 2012 01:24 TechNoTrance wrote:
People whine when blizz makes changes too quickly without enough testing. People whine when blizz is patient and careful about making changes with a fair amount of testing.

Standard.

People complain when Blizzard makes stupid and unnecessary changes to a good match-up. People complain when Blizzard refuses to adress the various problems created by said changes.

Fixed.


I dont agree with the TvZ was a great match up prior to the +2 queen range. I have a problem with a opening that was used on every map, every time. The only question was, "how many hellions will they build". But I guess it was nice for terrans to only have to know one build for the whole match up.


An opener that works on every map, every time? Are you talking about the 6 queen opener or what?

I hope you realise how hilariously ironic everything you just said is


But that ended pretty quickly. Now we see 4 queen builds with earlier pools coming back into style(MLG had tons of this) and we will see other styles come out as well.

No, fast third / 6 Queens openings are still used but old agressive Mutalisks-based styles are still viable (e. g. Leenock play) despite countless Zergs claiming the contrary and using this fallacy as an evidence that they need to be able to go 11 minuts Hive while skipping units during the first minuts of the game.
Mavvie
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Canada923 Posts
August 31 2012 16:59 GMT
#95
On September 01 2012 01:54 Schlendrian wrote:
Putting all balance issues aside,
I think the Queen range-buff made most of the pro-TvZs incredibly boring.

I used to love watching TvZs that were a back and forth, like: Terran goes Hellions for map-control and threatening the Zerg, maybe some drops, then Zerg goes Mutas - takes map-control and harrasses constantly, Ling runbys and all that good stuff, then a smooth transition into lategame...

Nowadays it's most of the time just a sit-and-wait till all are maxed out, then 1 fight...gg...

Since I'm only a noob I'm not sure if this is true, but IMO this game needs "threats" like Hellions used to be, or Mutas when people still used them, because it forces both parties to stay active with their units or invest into static defenses. And it seems like all those "threats" are gone now, which makes it less and less entertaining.


I guess I'll better watch the International now, cuz Chinese Dota is f-ing awesome

I agree with you pretty much, except mutas aren't "bad'. I remember I recently read that ZvT mutas have a higher winrate than infestors in the GSL or something...probably because with mutas you'll take minimal damage from drops.

Anyways, can someone explain me how IM-Nestea is a "lesser foreigner zerg" that "MVP beat because he was way better"?
Someone on the first or second page linked the video from IEM of MVP destroying Nestea with a nice raven flank...
Getting back into sc2 O_o
coolcor
Profile Joined February 2011
520 Posts
August 31 2012 16:59 GMT
#96
On September 01 2012 01:28 Rokoz wrote:
First I play 10 ladder games, meet 1 terran who actually was just losing games on purpose then I read this.

I understand that their view when they see terran somewhat adapting to the situation, however, for a average terran like me I can see clearly the lack of terrans on ladder each time I play. On ladder my opponents are 20% T / 40% P / 40% Z according to Sc2gears.

I understand that Kas and MVP makes it look easy, however, for majority of terrans it's a struggle.

And last but not least it's great to see that David Kim sees that Raven has potential. Since that's the only word to describe Raven, a unit with a lot of potential and that's it.


I'm pretty sure Blizzard believes they are fixing that difficulty problem with all the mech units in heart of the swarm since they said they were doing it to add an easier than bio playstyle like the other races have.
eleaf
Profile Joined September 2011
526 Posts
August 31 2012 17:00 GMT
#97
On September 01 2012 01:50 strength wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 01:47 AzBozz wrote:
its just the thing that zerg is in my opnion soo much easier to play with lower apm and also its so much easier to fungal a army than to spread and micro while being attacked TT ( mid master terran)


No one cares about Mid master terran opinions... Mid master anything is bad. This is why they only use pro tournaments as statistics.


Indeed. Blizzard logic is very powerful.

Back in the very first GSL (GSL open), fruitdealer grab the champion from a bunch of highly trained KR terrans, David said T imba, they are everywhere among the top 8 though the winner is Z.

Now, MVP trying hard and grab the champion from a relatively low level foreign tournament (no offense here) coz we all knew it is impossible for him to win any money from KR, with surrounded by a bunch of poorly trained Zerg foreigners (still no offense here, just imagine how these player do when they play on KR GM ladder) and David says, LOOK, T is the champion, terran is just fine.
Vanadiel
Profile Joined April 2012
France961 Posts
August 31 2012 17:00 GMT
#98
On September 01 2012 01:49 TheDwf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 01:39 Aunvilgod wrote:
On September 01 2012 01:14 TheDwf wrote:
So this is how Blizzard decides to balance or not the game? By watching Mvp crushing inferior Zergs then concluding TvZ is OK? How amateurish.


I think he was rather talking about the way Mvp used Ravens. However, in my opinion the only reason for Ravens being strong was Metropolis.

Agree. Mvp managing to get Ravens on Metropolis while outplaying inferior opponents (including Nestea) in midgame hardly says anything about Raven's viability on any map between equally skilled opponents. Good luck getting a Raven fleet on Antiga.


That's the point. You don't need to build raven on antiga, control the center, don't allow him to get a 4th base and just win the game.
Jono7272
Profile Joined November 2010
United Kingdom6330 Posts
August 31 2012 17:00 GMT
#99
Ah, Mvp beats a few foreign Zergs he's much better than.. That's something substantial to base balance ideas on.
Innovation | Flash | Mvp | Byun | TY
Empirimancer
Profile Joined July 2011
Canada1024 Posts
August 31 2012 17:01 GMT
#100
Sigh. I play Toss but ZvT used to be the best matchup to watch in tournaments. Now it's... well, it's still ok, but not nearly as good as it used to be. Since it's so much harder for Terrans to be aggressive mid game and Zergs just macro up, the first 15 minutes of most ZvTs is extremely boring.



Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 46 47 48 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
09:00
WardiTV Mondays #65
CranKy Ducklings254
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
BRAT_OK 120
RotterdaM 98
trigger 54
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 2081
Bisu 1015
GuemChi 577
Stork 452
Larva 335
Soma 315
firebathero 297
Light 222
Mini 211
Sharp 194
[ Show more ]
Aegong 193
PianO 134
ggaemo 127
Killer 120
Yoon 110
hero 89
ZerO 85
Pusan 75
JYJ 75
Snow 71
Rush 61
ToSsGirL 47
soO 42
Mong 41
sorry 28
Movie 27
NotJumperer 27
yabsab 23
zelot 21
ajuk12(nOOB) 16
Shinee 15
Terrorterran 10
Sacsri 10
SilentControl 10
Bale 9
Noble 8
Icarus 5
Dota 2
singsing3001
XcaliburYe615
League of Legends
JimRising 349
Counter-Strike
olofmeister2512
x6flipin436
zeus54
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor170
Other Games
summit1g8320
Fuzer 232
crisheroes215
XaKoH 190
Mew2King69
nookyyy 55
ZerO(Twitch)13
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 3
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 57
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt471
• HappyZerGling136
Other Games
• WagamamaTV294
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
18m
Monday Night Weeklies
5h 18m
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
ByuN vs Solar
Clem vs Classic
Cure vs herO
Reynor vs MaxPax
Replay Cast
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

YSL S2
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.