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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On September 01 2012 01:59 Mavvie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 01:54 Schlendrian wrote:
Putting all balance issues aside,
I think the Queen range-buff made most of the pro-TvZs incredibly boring.
I used to love watching TvZs that were a back and forth, like: Terran goes Hellions for map-control and threatening the Zerg, maybe some drops, then Zerg goes Mutas - takes map-control and harrasses constantly, Ling runbys and all that good stuff, then a smooth transition into lategame...
Nowadays it's most of the time just a sit-and-wait till all are maxed out, then 1 fight...gg...
Since I'm only a noob I'm not sure if this is true, but IMO this game needs "threats" like Hellions used to be, or Mutas when people still used them, because it forces both parties to stay active with their units or invest into static defenses. And it seems like all those "threats" are gone now, which makes it less and less entertaining.
I guess I'll better watch the International now, cuz Chinese Dota is f-ing awesome I agree with you pretty much, except mutas aren't "bad'. I remember I recently read that ZvT mutas have a higher winrate than infestors in the GSL or something...probably because with mutas you'll take minimal damage from drops. Anyways, can someone explain me how IM-Nestea is a "lesser foreigner zerg" that "MVP beat because he was way better"? Someone on the first or second page linked the video from IEM of MVP destroying Nestea with a nice raven flank...
Just as a point of fact, Mvp has like a 90% winrated against Nestea specifically. Since they practice together, and given their playstyles, it's impossible for NesTea to beat him. If you check out ZvT, NesTea's weakest matchup, and you remove all his games vs Mvp from it, suddenly it's as strong as his other matchups.
That being said, Mvp is a mad nerd baller. Even if Terran was legitimately weaker than other races he'd still win, because he's the greatest Sc2 player alive.
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On September 01 2012 01:58 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 01:54 Solarist wrote:On September 01 2012 01:50 Plansix wrote:On September 01 2012 01:44 Solarist wrote:On September 01 2012 01:30 Plansix wrote:On September 01 2012 01:27 TheDwf wrote:On September 01 2012 01:24 TechNoTrance wrote:
People whine when blizz makes changes too quickly without enough testing. People whine when blizz is patient and careful about making changes with a fair amount of testing.
Standard. People complain when Blizzard makes stupid and unnecessary changes to a good match-up. People complain when Blizzard refuses to adress the various problems created by said changes. Fixed. I dont agree with the TvZ was a great match up prior to the +2 queen range. I have a problem with a opening that was used on every map, every time. The only question was, "how many hellions will they build". But I guess it was nice for terrans to only have to know one build for the whole match up. An opener that works on every map, every time? Are you talking about the 6 queen opener or what? I hope you realise how hilariously ironic everything you just said is But that ended pretty quickly. Now we see 4 queen builds with earlier pools coming back into style(MLG had tons of this) and we will see other styles come out as well. Is the 6 queen opener not a stable build that can be used in every single map? Yes or no? If you wanna use the arguement just presented then Terran used other strategies aswell, sometimes it was cloak banshee, 2 rax and other early game stuff. But i guess we shoudent use that argument, because it makes your posting fall apart even more  Moving on! From my understanding, the 6 queen opening has no ability to punish a terran if he is greedy
Fortunately enough Zergs do not need to punish Terran greed because they can rush Hive and get their ultimate armies way faster than Terrans can.
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why am i feeling like blizzard has no clue in terms of balancing?
"Lemme take a look at 3 Tournaments, oh T is winning against Z, everything is k again. bye."
just wow, i hope HotS isn't going to be such a blunder as WoL was in the beginning.
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On September 01 2012 02:02 C0ntrast wrote:
why am i feeling like blizzard has no clue in terms of balancing?
"Lemme take a look at 3 Tournaments, oh T is winning against Z, everything is k again. bye."
just wow, i hope HotS isn't going to be such a blunder as WoL was in the beginning.
They used those results as examples, not as their only source of data. Why are you making thing up?
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On September 01 2012 02:00 eleaf wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 01:50 strength wrote:On September 01 2012 01:47 AzBozz wrote:
its just the thing that zerg is in my opnion soo much easier to play with lower apm and also its so much easier to fungal a army than to spread and micro while being attacked TT ( mid master terran) No one cares about Mid master terran opinions... Mid master anything is bad. This is why they only use pro tournaments as statistics. Indeed. Blizzard logic is very powerful. Back in the very first GSL (GSL open), fruitdealer grab the champion from a bunch of highly trained KR terrans, David said T imba, they are everywhere among the top 8 though the winner is Z. Now, MVP trying hard and grab the champion from a relatively low level foreign tournament (no offense here) coz we all knew it is impossible for him to win any money from KR, with surrounded by a bunch of poorly trained Zerg foreigners (still no offense here, just imagine how these player do when they play on KR GM ladder) and David says, LOOK, T is the champion, terran is just fine.
Sad to say this is the length Blizzard will go to justify keeping things the way they are. They're either lazy, inept, or probably both.
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On September 01 2012 01:30 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 01:27 TheDwf wrote:On September 01 2012 01:24 TechNoTrance wrote:
People whine when blizz makes changes too quickly without enough testing. People whine when blizz is patient and careful about making changes with a fair amount of testing.
Standard. People complain when Blizzard makes stupid and unnecessary changes to a good match-up. People complain when Blizzard refuses to adress the various problems created by said changes. Fixed. I dont agree with the TvZ was a great match up prior to the +2 queen range. I have a problem with a opening that was used on every map, every time. The only question was, "how many hellions will they build". But I guess it was nice for terrans to only have to know one build for the whole match up.
That's like hating on zerg for going hatch first ZvT and toss for going FFE PvZ(or maybe rather for zergs going 3 hatch before gas ZvP against FFE). It's an opening with a shitton of followups.
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On September 01 2012 01:17 Zelniq wrote:Show nested quote +We feel that at this time, we should give players more opportunities to fully explore the slowly-shifting meta-game before we change the balance of the game. Wish they just did this all the time.. players, most of the time will figure out ways to deal with any problems and on some occasions Blizzard should have just waited longer before making changes
Yep. I feel like they jumped the gun on many, many patches. Maybe even the most needed one too, reapers.
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As a high Masters Terran, this season, according to SC2 gears, I have played nearly as many games against Zerg than Terran and Protoss combined: 81, 46 and 39 respectively. All of my friends say the same exact thing
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On September 01 2012 01:54 AzBozz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 01:50 strength wrote:On September 01 2012 01:47 AzBozz wrote:
its just the thing that zerg is in my opnion soo much easier to play with lower apm and also its so much easier to fungal a army than to spread and micro while being attacked TT ( mid master terran) No one cares about Mid master terran opinions... Mid master anything is bad. This is why they only use pro tournaments as statistics. then soon there will be no more terrans in the lower leagues. when im laddering out of 10 games i meet one terran. and soooo many zergs .
Not really. As the "lower leagues" disappear they'll actually all be replaced by better players. It's an inevitability.
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On September 01 2012 01:13 DT.Damage wrote:
rofl.....thanks taeja thx mvp for being the best players...youre the reasons we get nerfed!
lol MVP was the main reason for ages and Taeja has taken over that job  As a Protoss I find it funny but yah... even the worse Terrans have figured it out since the initial patch at least
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On September 01 2012 02:04 [F_]aths wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 02:02 C0ntrast wrote:
why am i feeling like blizzard has no clue in terms of balancing?
"Lemme take a look at 3 Tournaments, oh T is winning against Z, everything is k again. bye."
just wow, i hope HotS isn't going to be such a blunder as WoL was in the beginning. They used those results as examples, not as their only source of data. Why are you making thing up?
And you know what, I just want to give Blizzard some credit here: Although WoL was unbalanced at first, they realized this and balanced it. Blizzard cares a lot about making the game balanced. They may not be perfect, and they may make mistakes, but they're trying and listening to the community and watching pro games. Any criticism I have for them is predicated on "first, thank you for trying. here's how I think you can do better"
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So when Thors had no energy, and thorzain made a new strategy with them it had to be instantly patched but now it is okay to wait for the meta game to balance itself. I don't understand their logic.
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On September 01 2012 02:06 Jimmy Raynor wrote:
So when Thors had no energy, and thorzain made a new strategy with them it had to be instantly patched but now it is okay to wait for the meta game to balance itself. I don't understand their logic.
There is no logic to be understood. They're finally giving pros a chance to adapt to meta game shifts before knee-jerk patching. It's unfortunate they waited until after the queen buff.
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On September 01 2012 02:05 xrapture wrote:As a high Masters Terran, this season, according to SC2 gears, I have played nearly as many games against Zerg than Terran and Protoss combined: 81, 46 and 39 respectively. All of my friends say the same exact thing
This matches my personal experience, I encounter almost as many Z as T and P combined.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On September 01 2012 02:09 ACrow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 02:05 xrapture wrote:As a high Masters Terran, this season, according to SC2 gears, I have played nearly as many games against Zerg than Terran and Protoss combined: 81, 46 and 39 respectively. All of my friends say the same exact thing This matches my personal experience, I encounter almost as many Z as T and P combined.
down in here in low masters the racial setup is a bit more balanced. I'd say I see all races about evenly, with a little bit less terran than the other 2 but not much. Haven't seen a random player in like over a month.
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I don't get how they can say that when some games are so much one sided.. It's not even about win rates, but sometimes TVZ is just terran playing right, and getting swarmed by bigger armies than his until he's dead even if he trades (very) well and is ahead on bases (Like Revival vs MKP at MLG).
Not even talking about games like Maru vs Shine this morning, where the said revolutionary MVP mech build just got destroyed by ONE roach drop..
When playing random it just doesn't feel right how I can beat master players as zerg but still struggle against diamond zerg as terran, when my play isn't that bad (at least way better than my "master" zerg).
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So blizzard finally does what so many people wanted: gives the meta game a chance to settle down, gives the pros a chance to figure things out, and everyone throws a fit? It really feels like no matter what blizzard does they can't please everyone, and the displeased whiners will always be the loudest.
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On September 01 2012 01:13 c0ldfusion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 01:07 winthrop wrote:
lol. why dont give zerg players time to show full potential.
also did you notice the wcs race distribution? You mean WCS Korea? That's mostly P though, unrelated to ZvT balance.
it's ok Terrans in Code S are almost back to their prime, soon the days of GomTvT will return
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On September 01 2012 02:13 hunts wrote:
So blizzard finally does what so many people wanted: gives the meta game a chance to settle down, gives the pros a chance to figure things out, and everyone throws a fit? It really feels like no matter what blizzard does they can't please everyone, and the displeased whiners will always be the loudest.
Love how you dismiss the part about how they should have done this way earlier, and not post-Queen buff.
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EPT
