|
On September 01 2012 01:49 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 01:39 Aunvilgod wrote:On September 01 2012 01:14 TheDwf wrote:
So this is how Blizzard decides to balance or not the game? By watching Mvp crushing inferior Zergs then concluding TvZ is OK? How amateurish. I think he was rather talking about the way Mvp used Ravens. However, in my opinion the only reason for Ravens being strong was Metropolis. Agree. Mvp managing to get Ravens on Metropolis while outplaying inferior opponents (including Nestea) in midgame hardly says anything about Raven's viability on any map between equally skilled opponents. Good luck getting a Raven fleet on Antiga.
Pretty sure Antiga is considered a terran favored map given the difficulty of taking the 4th and the ease of taking the third. And oh yeah, you can hold the middle pretty easily w/ planetary and tanks.
|
Dustin Browder & David Kim: "We balance for 200/200 on bronze league maps. You should play like we do in the office -- with the 15 minute no rush rule."
|
On September 01 2012 02:22 nottapro wrote:
I hate the raven as a terran. If you have it selected while you have your army marine/marauders selected and you try to stim, nothing happens. Its extremely frustrating. Just patching that would be hugely beneficial.
i hate the high tenplar for the same reason. when i am a moving my army across the whole map as every good toss should do, and then i am trying to use my guardian shield, nothing happends because of my templars. just making my sentrys to automicro themselves would be hugely beneficial.
|
On September 01 2012 02:19 Denzil wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 02:18 Chaggi wrote:
Cool. When it was a zerg buff, it took them a few days to put it in (completely screwing up the meta game) and took 2-3 months for them to even respond that there was possibly a problem.
When MVP/Taeja does well at like 1-2 tournaments, against inferior players on a specific map, they pull back all plans and say "let the metagame develop"
I don't even care about the buffs. I just want to be treated fairly. This is so stupid. you dont get to be treated fairly when you've had preferable treatment for the best part of 2 years
So the T race should get punished because of horrible maps and being too strong at release? That's a stupid attitude. Unfortunately it seems to be the same attitude Blizzard has. The same thing happened in WC3. It's a really really bad thing to be the strongest race at release in a Blizzard game.
|
On September 01 2012 02:29 Eventine wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 01:49 TheDwf wrote:On September 01 2012 01:39 Aunvilgod wrote:On September 01 2012 01:14 TheDwf wrote:
So this is how Blizzard decides to balance or not the game? By watching Mvp crushing inferior Zergs then concluding TvZ is OK? How amateurish. I think he was rather talking about the way Mvp used Ravens. However, in my opinion the only reason for Ravens being strong was Metropolis. Agree. Mvp managing to get Ravens on Metropolis while outplaying inferior opponents (including Nestea) in midgame hardly says anything about Raven's viability on any map between equally skilled opponents. Good luck getting a Raven fleet on Antiga. Pretty sure Antiga is considered a terran favored map given the difficulty of taking the 4th and the ease of taking the third. And oh yeah, you can hold the middle pretty easily w/ planetary and tanks.
Pretty sure that's not his point. Good luck making ravens work against a similarly skilled opponent on any map that isn't Metropolis.(perhaps Shakuras would work too).
|
I make control groups, its only in crisis situations that it is a problem, when selecting the units is messy.
I understand that you think its a totally mundane issue, but I personally find that being able to I stim with siege tanks, thors, battlecruisers, banshees, vikings all on the same control group, but not if there is a raven. Is rather silly and pointless.
|
On September 01 2012 02:25 Chaggi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 02:20 Sroobz wrote:
How come they never talked about DRG NEVER HAVING ANY PROBLEMS WITH HELLIONS PRE-PATCH? They reference Mvp for the ravens...fucking blizzard. Such a joke No zerg pro ever had problems with hellions. They were stupidly easy to defend against and while yes, it did force zerg to do a specific early game to defend or die, it's not like it's any different now (6 queen opening anyone?)
Except for when a terran goes reactor hellion and flat out kills all of the zergs drones and wins the game or when a terran would go all in marauder hellion and pro level zergs were struggling purely due to how terran players were microing their hellions. I'm pretty sure idra and a bunch of pro level zergs wouldn't agree with your statement.
|
On September 01 2012 02:28 rembrant wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 02:16 TheDwf wrote:On September 01 2012 02:13 hunts wrote:
So blizzard finally does what so many people wanted: gives the meta game a chance to settle down, gives the pros a chance to figure things out, and everyone throws a fit? It really feels like no matter what blizzard does they can't please everyone, and the displeased whiners will always be the loudest. Love how you dismiss the part about how they should have done this way earlier, and not post-Queen buff. So basically ur ok with what blizz is doing but ur upset it follows a buff to a race you don't play, well that's nice. :-)
No. I would have been OK with Blizzard choosing a logic and sticking to said logic, not using double standards with terrible arguments and “evidences”.
|
So if Slivko had beaten Mvp we wouldn't be having this discussion now?
Great job, Blizzard. No, I would not like to recieve an email telling me about your next design of destructible rocks.
|
Well it's true. More terrans then just MVP and taeja are winning tvz a lot lot more at the highest level. Of course foreign terrans have always struggled and now struggle more while Korean terrans have adjusted.
|
I have some choice words for the amount of terran qq in this fourm, however they will not be mentioned.
I think this is a decent move by Blizzard, but its clear the rest of terran ladder does not think so.
|
On September 01 2012 02:32 omnic wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 02:25 Chaggi wrote:On September 01 2012 02:20 Sroobz wrote:
How come they never talked about DRG NEVER HAVING ANY PROBLEMS WITH HELLIONS PRE-PATCH? They reference Mvp for the ravens...fucking blizzard. Such a joke No zerg pro ever had problems with hellions. They were stupidly easy to defend against and while yes, it did force zerg to do a specific early game to defend or die, it's not like it's any different now (6 queen opening anyone?) Except for when a terran goes reactor hellion and flat out kills all of the zergs drones and wins the game. I'm pretty sure idra and a bunch of pro level zergs wouldn't agree with your statement.
If pro level zergs are dying to reactor hellions, it's literally cause they're out of position and/or played way too greedy/no spines or evo chambers out.
Do you see a pro terran player complaining that they lost to a 4 gate without any bunkers or repair? It's the same idea.
|
I have the feeling some people just can't deal with the fact that they lose because they are just not good enough and dismiss the fact that pretty much all current tournaments are looking quite balanced.
Taking a look at the recent tourneys on liquipedia:
IEM: pretty balanced
Campus Party: pretty balanced
WCS south korea: heavily toss favored
WCS NA: slightly zerg favored
MLG: pretty balanced
So although Terran is arguably the weakest, it's a very slight margin they are worse the other races and looking at the development over the past few months i see good chances we'll see Terran on top again quite soon. Although the development of protoss in Korea looks kinda bad in terms of balance.
|
Blizzard makes an intelligent balancing decision? What the hell?
|
On September 01 2012 02:31 Zane wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 02:29 Eventine wrote:On September 01 2012 01:49 TheDwf wrote:On September 01 2012 01:39 Aunvilgod wrote:On September 01 2012 01:14 TheDwf wrote:
So this is how Blizzard decides to balance or not the game? By watching Mvp crushing inferior Zergs then concluding TvZ is OK? How amateurish. I think he was rather talking about the way Mvp used Ravens. However, in my opinion the only reason for Ravens being strong was Metropolis. Agree. Mvp managing to get Ravens on Metropolis while outplaying inferior opponents (including Nestea) in midgame hardly says anything about Raven's viability on any map between equally skilled opponents. Good luck getting a Raven fleet on Antiga. Pretty sure Antiga is considered a terran favored map given the difficulty of taking the 4th and the ease of taking the third. And oh yeah, you can hold the middle pretty easily w/ planetary and tanks. Pretty sure that's not his point. Good luck making ravens work against a similarly skilled opponent on any map that isn't Metropolis.(perhaps Shakuras would work too).
Probably not. But I decided to call him out on a silly statement.
I don't understand why there is so much QQ. The july winrates suggest that TvZ is pretty balanced
KR only:
PvT - 52,5%
ZvT - 49,8%
PvZ - 52,2%
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359081
The inability of terrans to play their race well is no reason that nerfs/buffs are needed. That said, give it time, see where the metagame shifts to and then decide on the buff/nerf.
|
Did he not notice the WCS Korea results?
Ravens are probably one of the hardest units in the game to use effectively and efficiently. But just because MVP can do it, your regular bronze league terran player can also do it ... when the zerg has the ability to a-click with his corrupters, and maybe moves a few of them away from the main bunch.
|
On September 01 2012 02:33 blade55555 wrote:
Well it's true. More terrans then just MVP and taeja are winning tvz a lot lot more at the highest level. Of course foreign terrans have always struggled and now struggle more while Korean terrans have adjusted.
its like comparing apple and oranges.. easily two of the three best KOREAN Terrans beating European Zergs and less then code-s talent Korean tosses and zergs doesnt mean anything... Taeja and MVP are simply better than the players they have been beating to such a degree that they are able to outmacro or micro to be cost efficient were other terrans just can't
|
On September 01 2012 01:07 strength wrote:
Atleast they have statistics that show its balancing out.
**** ROFL waiting for terrans to cry. Avilo may commit suicide.
hahahahaha, best comment i've seen in a while :D
|
Glad they did not make any changes. Granted, ravens could use a bit of a speed buff but if any race needs a change, it would be a nerf to protoss (my opinion). I believe we will be seeing much better terran players in the future now that kespa players are getting better.
|
On September 01 2012 02:29 Eventine wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 01:49 TheDwf wrote:On September 01 2012 01:39 Aunvilgod wrote:On September 01 2012 01:14 TheDwf wrote:
So this is how Blizzard decides to balance or not the game? By watching Mvp crushing inferior Zergs then concluding TvZ is OK? How amateurish. I think he was rather talking about the way Mvp used Ravens. However, in my opinion the only reason for Ravens being strong was Metropolis. Agree. Mvp managing to get Ravens on Metropolis while outplaying inferior opponents (including Nestea) in midgame hardly says anything about Raven's viability on any map between equally skilled opponents. Good luck getting a Raven fleet on Antiga. Pretty sure Antiga is considered a terran favored map given the difficulty of taking the 4th and the ease of taking the third. And oh yeah, you can hold the middle pretty easily w/ planetary and tanks.
Not against BLs, and contrary to popular belief Antiga is not Terran favoured in TvZ (if cross spawns only). Antiga favours whoever controls the center, and depending on the midgame it can be either Terran or Zerg.
But my point was, Metropolis has particular map design (i. e. 5 bases easily defendable holding 2 chokes) that allows Terran to get Ravens and/or BCs more easily than other maps.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
