EPTSituation Report: August 31, 2012 by David Kim - Page 9
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Chill
Calgary26003 Posts
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RyF
Austria508 Posts
On September 01 2012 02:21 DOUDOU wrote: just make creep recede as fast as it spreads, that's it this! | ||
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Ogww
Finland224 Posts
Now only Taeja wins TvZ, LOL L2P. David Kim <3 User was warned for this post | ||
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Canucklehead
Canada5074 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On September 01 2012 02:36 Eventine wrote: The inability of terrans to play their race well is no reason that nerfs/buffs are needed. Pity that's the reason why Zergs got +2 range on Queens. Oh the irony. | ||
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Jaegeru
United Kingdom676 Posts
Terrans below GM level are pretty screwed because they don't have the apm or mechanics to pull off strategies like Mvp, Taeja and Kas do, just becuase the best player on the planet being Mvp can make ravens work vs mediocre foreign zergs doesn't make the matchup balanced. We feel that at this time, we should give players more opportunities to fully explore the slowly-shifting meta-game before we change the balance of the game. I really don't understand this logic, why didn't this apply to all of the other times when protoss and zerg were buffed and terran nerfed by complaining the game was imbalanced, yet the same thing is happening now with terrans asking for a small buff being a raven speed increase or a creep nerf and they say they should allow the metagame to shift. It makes no sense and they should have let the metagame shift all of the other times a patch was introduced. Not to mention the queen buuff that came from out of nowhere when matchups were fairly balanced and it was a completely unwanted change by 75% of the community. It seems like the game has been patched far too much and they should have just left it like they did in BW by patching only when they really needed to, and is what should have happened in SC2 allowing protoss and zerg to figure shit out when they were complaining terran was OP. | ||
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Radament
United States46 Posts
On September 01 2012 02:35 Chaggi wrote: If pro level zergs are dying to reactor hellions, it's literally cause they're out of position and/or played way too greedy/no spines or evo chambers out. Do you see a pro terran player complaining that they lost to a 4 gate without any bunkers or repair? It's the same idea. It's actually no where close to the same idea what so ever. You fail to understand how a unit that cost only minerals, previous patches did significantly more damage than now, and was designed to be a harass unit should not have to be delt with like a 4 gat all in. Zergs did make spines, had queens in position to block ramp, and had to make roaches (early gas investment into non tech) or rush tech (2 base muta/infestor) and regadless would still often lose to people who just made 10+ hellions and ran past or killed the queen blocking the ramp just as roaches could have possibly spawned. ( in which case you still had to run ALL of your drones to avoid loseing all your economy) | ||
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ACrow
Germany6583 Posts
On September 01 2012 02:35 roym899 wrote: I have the feeling some people just can't deal with the fact that they lose because they are just not good enough and dismiss the fact that pretty much all current tournaments are looking quite balanced. Taking a look at the recent tourneys on liquipedia: IEM: pretty balanced Campus Party: pretty balanced WCS south korea: heavily toss favored WCS NA: slightly zerg favored MLG: pretty balanced So although Terran is arguably the weakest, it's a very slight margin they are worse the other races and looking at the development over the past few months i see good chances we'll see Terran on top again quite soon. Although the development of protoss in Korea looks kinda bad in terms of balance. I wouldn't agree with WCS NA "slightly" Zerg favored with 15/32 being Z and having a ZvZ final. I'd call that Z domination. With the rest I can agree, can't comment on Campus Party, didn't watch. But yeah, T results in tourneys have stabilized over all. Though, like many have said, TvZ isn't as much fun to watch anymore, as T has only one viable early pressure left (hellion + marauder), so the Z can almost always turtle pretty greedily, which takes out some of the excitement. | ||
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Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
On September 01 2012 01:24 TechNoTrance wrote: People whine when blizz makes changes too quickly without enough testing. People whine when blizz is patient and careful about making changes with a fair amount of testing. Standard. Yeah, sadly. Some comments in this thread also feels to me like I'm surfing the battle net balance forums... | ||
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CrtBalorda
Slovenia704 Posts
On September 01 2012 01:14 Kyrao wrote: So now we just need to wait another 3 months for Zerg players to learn how to spread units to avoid aoe damage... awesome. That is pretty much impossible. The units clump far to much still so unless you spread out units all over the dam map, not much damage is gona be avoided. The only thing a good spread will do is make you get a bigger area to hit the terran faster thats about it. | ||
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Tao367
United Kingdom324 Posts
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oxxo
988 Posts
On September 01 2012 02:42 Radament wrote: It's actually no where close to the same idea what so ever. You fail to understand how a unit that cost only minerals, previous patches did significantly more damage than now, and was designed to be a harass unit should not have to be delt with like a 4 gat all in. Zergs did make spines, had queens in position to block ramp, and had to make roaches (early gas investment into non tech) or rush tech (2 base muta/infestor) and regadless would still often lose to people who just made 10+ hellions and ran past or killed the queen blocking the ramp just as roaches could have possibly spawned. ( in which case you still had to run ALL of your drones to avoid loseing all your economy) It's the same thing. If you died to 4-5 hellions you deserve to lose 100%. No one can argue that. Losing to 10+ hellions is exactly the same as losing to a 4gate. 10+ hellions is very all-in. | ||
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decaf
Austria1797 Posts
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Eventine
United States307 Posts
On September 01 2012 02:38 TheDwf wrote: Not against BLs, and contrary to popular belief Antiga is not Terran favoured in TvZ (if cross spawns only). Antiga favours whoever controls the center, and depending on the midgame it can be either Terran or Zerg. But my point was, Metropolis has particular map design (i. e. 5 bases easily defendable holding 2 chokes) that allows Terran to get Ravens and/or BCs more easily than other maps. Antiga shipyard, TvZ, any league from May 31st 2012 to August 31, 2012 TvZ record: 98-99 (49.7%) (note if you look only from July and August, percentage drops to 47%ish, if only August, percentage goes up to 54%; over life time of antiga it's 50.7% favoring T, but there's been a lot of changes since then) You are right that if zerg can get the deathball composition they are in good shape. But records don't suggest a big imbalance. | ||
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Masq
Canada1792 Posts
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
On September 01 2012 02:42 Radament wrote: It's actually no where close to the same idea what so ever. You fail to understand how a unit that cost only minerals, previous patches did significantly more damage than now, and was designed to be a harass unit should not have to be delt with like a 4 gat all in. Zergs did make spines, had queens in position to block ramp, and had to make roaches (early gas investment into non tech) or rush tech (2 base muta/infestor) and regadless would still often lose to people who just made 10+ hellions and ran past or killed the queen blocking the ramp just as roaches could have possibly spawned. ( in which case you still had to run ALL of your drones to avoid loseing all your economy) Yes, that's why every TvZ actually became a 10 hellion race. It's unstoppable. Making roaches is actually like typing gg. In fact, as soon as roaches pop out, you lose points and instantly get queued up against another Terran. I'm sorry that Zerg has to commit something to defending a 10 hellion push (that would die pre patch to 1-2 spines, 2 queens and 5-6 roaches without even doing any sort of game ending damage if you had even the slightest sim city going on). You're right. It's better that Zerg gets 6 queens, and a free 3rd. Yup | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 01 2012 02:23 TheDwf wrote: Of course it is the way it works, in an even game Zergs can get BLs/Corruptors/Infestors before Terrans (or Protoss for that matter) can get their own ultimate compositions. Both Terrans and Protoss have to stall to reach said compositions. That isn’t really true at all. If you think it is, you may need to go back to basics and learn some early timings to use against zerg and build up from there. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3543 Posts
We see SortOf, Johnnyrecco, Slivko. players that are good, but suddenly they smash everything. We see Vortix a rising star, i saw him play in wc3 he was great, even in sc2 he's great. We compare him to Lucifron who was much greater in wc3 and greater in sc2, then suddenly Vortix breaks out, he is everything, one of the strongest players in the European scene and Lucifron is just another Terran.. We saw Vortix get absolutely manhandled in the early game by korean terrans cuz he, frankly didn't have the same knowledge of the early game. Then he proceeded to smash them in the late game.. Zergs still need to be good, what's most important is the time spent on the game. Because they need knowledge about everything, but when they do, they can absolutely out-brute force the two other races. I've seen games of Protoss' eating the entire map, getting the best army composition that is possible to acquire and then trade with the zerg 10:1 in unit efficiency. When i meet players in my masters league who are protoss, i can feel that they're kinda decent, when i meet terrans i can feel that they're absolutely amazing in macro and multitask, but still stuck in the league. When i meet Zergs they all simply derp around doing stupid junk and when you outplay them, by an absolutely outrageous amount, they start to complain. I believe there is catching up to do, for Terrans in the metagame, but it won't change the fact that the Zerg race is simply so much surperior to the others. In macro/economy/unit efficiency/mobility/map control/scouting.. everything! Some Zergs are still absolutely amazing, don't get me wrong, but they're not the players that get rewarded. Players like Violet, Leenock, Bly, Dong Rae Gu, Symbol, are absolutely amazing players, they're multitask, understanding of the game, mechanics, all amazing, but what currently is broken, is the mass spines, mass infestor, broodlord style, which is an incredible easy to control army, easy to get aswell and absolutely smashes any army of protoss or terran and it rewards bad zerg players. Which is why at the moment it's hard to distinguish good players from bad, that are zerg. Cuz they're all doing well! Heck i even saw Gretorp, a caster that off-raced as Zerg, make Alive, a freaking Korean superstar Terran, work for his victory, the other day! | ||
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SolidMoose
United States1240 Posts
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ACrow
Germany6583 Posts
On September 01 2012 02:49 Plansix wrote: That isn’t really true at all. If you think it is, you may need to go back to basics and learn some early timings to use against zerg and build up from there. I think those early timing you are refering to are what he called the stalling that is necessary for T and P. | ||
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Moving on!
