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DKR
United Kingdom622 Posts
http://torchforgaming.org/ Whilst it's unlikely to really go anywhere IMO it's a nice gesture and the idea of Olympic level exposure is very appealing to people. I discovered this in this forbes article: http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaudiosi/2012/08/15/league-of-legends-and-starcraft-ii-could-become-olympic-sports-as-early-as-2020-summer-games/ Regardless of your opinion on the matter, the forbes article is well worth a read | ||
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PH
United States6173 Posts
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Enzymatic
Canada1301 Posts
Also, in order for this to happen, eSports such as SC2 and LoL would have to get a LOT more exposure to the point of being televised in other countries outside of Korea. Do I hope this one day happens? Yes. Do I think its very realistic to even happen by 2020? Nope. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5214 Posts
On August 29 2012 11:15 Enzymatic wrote: The thing is... Typically the Olympics are associated with "Physical" activity/sports, ie: requiring intensive physical training in order to prepare. eSports doesn't really fit that category. Take a look at Kimberly Rhodes: http://i.eurosport.com/2012/07/29/868343-14655826-640-360.jpg Shooting a gun takes about the same physical training as using a mouse and keyboard... Pretty sure shooting only made it into the Olympics because it is similar to Archery though, which at one time took a lot of strength to draw a bow. Today, bows have pulleys on them and are easier to draw. | ||
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Ace1123
Philippines1187 Posts
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kalandra
Malaysia23 Posts
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neobowman
Canada3324 Posts
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HotGlueGun
United States1409 Posts
On August 29 2012 11:18 BronzeKnee wrote: Take a look at Kimberly Rhodes: http://i.eurosport.com/2012/07/29/868343-14655826-640-360.jpg Shooting a gun takes about the same physical training as using a mouse and keyboard... Pretty sure shooting only made it into the Olympics because it is similar to Archery though, which at one time took a lot of strength to draw a bow. Today, bows have pulleys on them and are easier to draw. Sorry, but basically every olympic event requires much more overall physical activity than SC2 by a long shot, even shooting. http://www.issf-academy.com/courses/fundamentals-of-pistol.html Also, the general public will have an overwhelmingly negative view of eSports if cyber athletes are put on the same pedestal as Olympian athletes. | ||
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Critter
United States196 Posts
On August 29 2012 11:32 kalandra wrote: Ace1123 post is a good reason why SC2 or most pc games will not go in the Olympic. Besides the fact the sports in Olympic are usually physical in nature, they are also very stable. Rules/format/scoring changes are rare for most of the sports in the Olympic. Imagine if football(soccer), basketball, hockey, volleyball etc etc had major rules changes every 4, 8 or 12 years, won't that be very confusing for long time viewers? If SC2 or any computer games want to be in something as prestigious as Olympic, it need to be very very stable. While I see your point and agree, hockey (NHL specifically) has had several major rule changes (two line pass, lateral hits, the trapazoid, they're still considering no touch icing, etc). I still agree, though, that gaming will probably not catch on at an Olympic level, which just means we need to start an eSports Olympics! | ||
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Opeasy
107 Posts
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dabom88
United States3483 Posts
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howLiN
Portugal1676 Posts
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TheFish7
United States2824 Posts
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mrtomjones
Canada4020 Posts
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Akhee
Brazil811 Posts
it would even be bad if it happened, take a step after another | ||
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kvn4444
1510 Posts
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Chairman Ray
United States11903 Posts
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Talack
Canada2742 Posts
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Iodem
United States1173 Posts
Otherwise, I'd say no. The rules aren't stable enough, SC2's rules aren't set in stone yet, and we've still got two more expansions to go before that. As for LoL... don't they come out with a new hero practically every week or something? I haven't played it in almost two years. Maybe a better solution would be to make older games olympic sports. Brood War, for example. The rules and balances to BW are set, and are extremely unlikely of changing. Tetris and Street Fighter 2 also come to mind. Just keep it to games that aren't ever going to change. | ||
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Savant
United States379 Posts
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Cinquedea
Canada144 Posts
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DangerAl
Australia88 Posts
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Rent-A-Hero
United States137 Posts
Maybe that corner is right around the corner... | ||
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mrtomjones
Canada4020 Posts
On August 29 2012 12:27 Iodem wrote: I'll be honest that I only want to see this happen to see how the North Koreans compare to their Southern counterparts in Starcraft. Otherwise, I'd say no. The rules aren't stable enough, SC2's rules aren't set in stone yet, and we've still got two more expansions to go before that. As for LoL... don't they come out with a new hero practically every week or something? I haven't played it in almost two years. Maybe a better solution would be to make older games olympic sports. Brood War, for example. The rules and balances to BW are set, and are extremely unlikely of changing. Tetris and Street Fighter 2 also come to mind. Just keep it to games that aren't ever going to change. They just started eating pizza and wearing pants. I feel like they are not comparable. | ||
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flyingteapot
United States11 Posts
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mrtomjones
Canada4020 Posts
On August 29 2012 12:30 DangerAl wrote: In addition to the issues already raised by posters, I feel the inclusion of esports in the olympics would almost be as silly as the inclusion of tennis. For esports, or at least for SC2, the pro scene is well established and already features so many prestigious tournaments that an olympic tournament would not be particularly special. The olympics are always special dude.. it is the best of the best in every sport. Andy Murray was happy as hell to win and so were the Williams sisters. Hockey has the stanley cup and still battle it out for gold and give it their all. | ||
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dabom88
United States3483 Posts
On August 29 2012 12:30 DangerAl wrote: In addition to the issues already raised by posters, I feel the inclusion of esports in the olympics would almost be as silly as the inclusion of tennis. For esports, or at least for SC2, the pro scene is well established and already features so many prestigious tournaments that an olympic tournament would not be particularly special. Why do you think Tennis's inclusion is silly? Tennis is a very physical sport with a worldwide set of players and audience. It's a no-brainer that it's included in the Olympics. Not to mention a much bigger pro scene. Progamers WISH they got paid as much as professional tennis players. As someone who played Varsity in High School, I feel kind of offended by this comment. | ||
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theBizness
United States696 Posts
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Vansetsu
United States1454 Posts
You can make the argument that athletes bodys are not symetrical, that is only analogous to the players mind and hands, not to the format or the tools of the game. Also posting this a little drunk, sorry for poor spacing and unseen grammatical errors ect | ||
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Burns
United States2300 Posts
also, sports such as action sports havent been accepted into the olympics so they pretty much has just been doing the same thing that starcraft is doing, creating their own championships and catering to their community | ||
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BoZiffer
United States1841 Posts
On August 29 2012 12:30 DangerAl wrote: In addition to the issues already raised by posters, I feel the inclusion of esports in the olympics would almost be as silly as the inclusion of tennis. For esports, or at least for SC2, the pro scene is well established and already features so many prestigious tournaments that an olympic tournament would not be particularly special. Disagree on the tennis front. A once-every-four-years event that is full of the best competition is meaningful for every and all participants. Serena Williams, the winningest women's tennis athlete in history, spoke many times on how important it was to her to try and get a gold medal, the one accolade she didn't have. Its important. Now does eSports belong - I'm inclined to say no. I consider the Olympics to be athletics and eSports isn't athletics. | ||
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Marou
Germany1371 Posts
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Rah
United States973 Posts
On August 29 2012 12:47 Marou wrote: If you let esports in then next step is chess and poker to (and one could argue that they should get there first). Esports does not belong in the Olympics, it should have it's own federation and it's own official and unique event. Isn't SC2 more physical than chess and poker? It's not like you're sitting around thinking until you take your turn in SC2. I know you have to keep your face on all game in poker but doesn't that fall short to hiding your tech choice in SC2 while maintaining 300 apm? | ||
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Ace1123
Philippines1187 Posts
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On August 29 2012 09:44 DKR wrote: I didn't make this, just stumbled across it and searches for Torch for gaming and olympic SC2 yielded nothing so here goes: http://torchforgaming.org/ Whilst it's unlikely to really go anywhere IMO it's a nice gesture and the idea of Olympic level exposure is very appealing to people. I discovered this in this forbes article: http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaudiosi/2012/08/15/league-of-legends-and-starcraft-ii-could-become-olympic-sports-as-early-as-2020-summer-games/ By 2020 I expect most of us to be playing a different RTS altogether. | ||
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Enzymatic
Canada1301 Posts
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
on a side note, i believe heritage is also an important factor. just by that alone esport does not qualify. | ||
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Enzymatic
Canada1301 Posts
On August 29 2012 13:12 StarStruck wrote: By 2020 I expect most of us to be playing a different RTS altogether. That's what they were saying in 1999 a while after Starcraft came out. Its now like almost 14 years after the original Starcraft was released? And what forum are we in right now? | ||
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
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Black[CAT]
Malaysia2589 Posts
Hell no... | ||
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xelnaga_empire
627 Posts
1) The IOC is represented by seperate nations when it comes to voting. Which is the lead country we want to petition to lead a group of countries to vote for e-sports? If you think the USA is the best bet, that will never happen because USA wants baseball and softball back into the Olympics, not e-sports. South Korea is trying to keep Tae Kwan Do from being chopped from the Olympics so there is no way South Korea would back e-sports either. 2) With sports like Rugby, Racquetball, and Cricket not even in the Olympics, e-sports stands no chance. Look at the history of Rugby, Racquetball, and Cricket and the tournaments world wide and audience world wide for these sports. There would be an outrage by specific IOC member nations if e-sports was included before these sports. The politics does not favor e-sports one bit. For starters, e-sports doesn't even have 1% of the political clout and money as Rugby and yet Rugby can't make it to the Olympics. 3) E-sports has no international organization governing it. Stop wasting time on this petition right now. The IOC will not deal with a sport without an international organization governing it. Instead of wasting time on this petition, waste your effort on getting an international organization governing e-sports first. When that happens, then we can come back to thinking about the Olympics. 4) Thanks to Fischbacher for mentioning this point. The representation of women in e-sports is very poor. The sport being considered would have to have enough competitive women playing it that the Olympics could have mens and womens events. The lack of women in e-sports is another nail in the coffin for e-sports being considered for the Olympics. Because of points 1), 2), 3), and 4) above, there is a 0% chance e-sports will be considered for the Olympics. For starters, fix point 3) before we even consider petitioning the IOC. | ||
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Fischbacher
Canada666 Posts
I follow Olympic big processes (and the related politicking/rules) closely. This article is ignoring fundamental reasons why it is impossible for esports to get in the Olympics "as early as 2020". The earliest it could possibly get in is 2024. That's because the list of sports contesting a place for 2020 has already been announced, and esports isn't on it. esports also doesn't have an international federation that is recognized by the IOC, so it probably wouldn't even be eligible to bid before 2028 even if the process for an esports federation getting recognized started today. There are a lot of other issues, but even ignoring them the headline is essentially a lie. | ||
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Fischbacher
Canada666 Posts
On August 29 2012 13:32 xelnaga_empire wrote: There is no chance that E-sports makes it into the Olympics, not even a 0.00000000000001% chance. 1) The IOC is represented by seperate nations when it comes to voting. Which is the lead country we want to petition to lead a group of countries to vote for e-sports? If you think the USA is the best bet, that will never happen because USA wants baseball and softball back into the Olympics, not e-sports. South Korea is trying to keep Tae Kwan Do from being chopped from the Olympics so there is no way South Korea would back e-sports either. 2) With sports like Rugby, Racquetball, and Cricket not even in the Olympics, e-sports stands no chance. Look at the history of Rugby, Racquetball, and Cricket and the tournaments world wide and audience world wide for these sports. There would be an outrage by specific IOC member nations if e-sports was included before these sports. The politics does not favor e-sports one bit. For starters, e-sports doesn't even have 1% of the political clout and money as Rugby and yet Rugby can't make it to the Olympics. 3) E-sports has no international organization governing it. Stop wasting time on this petition right now. The IOC will not deal with a sport without an international organization governing it. Instead of wasting time on this petition, waste your effort on getting an international organization governing e-sports first. When that happens, then we can come back to thinking about the Olympics. Because of points 1), 2), and 3) above, there is a 0% chance e-sports will be considered for the Olympics. For starters, fix point 3) before we even consider petitioning the IOC. I would add a fourth point: gender equality. Until we get a credible women's pro scene esports has no chance as an Olympic sport. Unless women suddenly start winning 30-50% of tournaments, of course. And before you say that's ridiculous, keep in mind that even chess has a separate world championship for women, and if they ever add chess in the Olympics there would be separated men's and women's events. | ||
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xelnaga_empire
627 Posts
On August 29 2012 13:41 Fischbacher wrote: I would add a fourth point: gender equality. Until we get a credible women's pro scene esports has no chance as an Olympic sport. Unless women suddenly start winning 30-50% of tournaments, of course. And before you say that's ridiculous, keep in mind that even chess has a separate world championship for women, and if they ever add chess in the Olympics there would be separated men's and women's events. You are right! E-sports has poor representation from women. This is another political nail in the coffin for e-sports. | ||
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Fischbacher
Canada666 Posts
On August 29 2012 13:15 jinorazi wrote: there was a thread on this...with shit load of pages...during the olympics. on a side note, i believe heritage is also an important factor. just by that alone esport does not qualify. Heritage isn't a problem, IOC cares about TV ratings. The only thing heritage does is prolong the life of sports like sailing and modern pentathlon. BMX and Slopestyle (both ski and snowboard, please) aren't "traditional" but that didn't stop the IOC bending itself backwards to include those in the games (from 2008 and 2014, respectively). If it attracts eyeballs and if it fits all the universality checkboxes, the IOC wants it in their TV package. Period. | ||
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ImNightmare
1575 Posts
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dabom88
United States3483 Posts
On August 29 2012 12:59 Rah wrote: Isn't SC2 more physical than chess and poker? It's not like you're sitting around thinking until you take your turn in SC2. I know you have to keep your face on all game in poker but doesn't that fall short to hiding your tech choice in SC2 while maintaining 300 apm? Physicality isn't the focus of any of them, so all you can really judge is how respected and represented they are throughout the world. Chess and Poker edge out E-sports by far in those respects. Go would probably be after that. | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
On August 29 2012 13:32 xelnaga_empire wrote: There is no chance that E-sports makes it into the Olympics, not even a 0.00000000000001% chance. 1) The IOC is represented by seperate nations when it comes to voting. Which is the lead country we want to petition to lead a group of countries to vote for e-sports? If you think the USA is the best bet, that will never happen because USA wants baseball and softball back into the Olympics, not e-sports. South Korea is trying to keep Tae Kwan Do from being chopped from the Olympics so there is no way South Korea would back e-sports either. 2) With sports like Rugby, Racquetball, and Cricket not even in the Olympics, e-sports stands no chance. Look at the history of Rugby, Racquetball, and Cricket and the tournaments world wide and audience world wide for these sports. There would be an outrage by specific IOC member nations if e-sports was included before these sports. The politics does not favor e-sports one bit. For starters, e-sports doesn't even have 1% of the political clout and money as Rugby and yet Rugby can't make it to the Olympics. 3) E-sports has no international organization governing it. Stop wasting time on this petition right now. The IOC will not deal with a sport without an international organization governing it. Instead of wasting time on this petition, waste your effort on getting an international organization governing e-sports first. When that happens, then we can come back to thinking about the Olympics. Because of points 1), 2), and 3) above, there is a 0% chance e-sports will be considered for the Olympics. For starters, fix point 3) before we even consider petitioning the IOC. way to burst everyone's bubble lol | ||
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MountainDewJunkie
United States10340 Posts
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InSSerenity
117 Posts
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Stanlot
United States5742 Posts
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Flamingo777
United States1190 Posts
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JyB
France466 Posts
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fire_brand
Canada1123 Posts
I like where Esports is, I think it's a full reasonable platform for our game. I don't mind the idea of bringing it further into the mainstream with television broadcasts, or something similar but really think it needs its own style of emission, and it's own branding. Esports is not classic athleticism and I don't think it should be tried in a competition for such. There's numerous other more deserving sports than sc2, so I'm not holding my breath. I don't think the olympics will do anything for sc2 and I don't think we'll do anything for the olympics. It's better for both of us if we just keep our distance. The idea sounds nice without actually exploring it, but I think upon further examination that it's just not feasible. A nice ideal, but in practice it really makes no sense. This guy actually nails it. + Show Spoiler + On August 29 2012 13:32 xelnaga_empire wrote: There is no chance that E-sports makes it into the Olympics, not even a 0.00000000000001% chance. 1) The IOC is represented by seperate nations when it comes to voting. Which is the lead country we want to petition to lead a group of countries to vote for e-sports? If you think the USA is the best bet, that will never happen because USA wants baseball and softball back into the Olympics, not e-sports. South Korea is trying to keep Tae Kwan Do from being chopped from the Olympics so there is no way South Korea would back e-sports either. 2) With sports like Rugby, Racquetball, and Cricket not even in the Olympics, e-sports stands no chance. Look at the history of Rugby, Racquetball, and Cricket and the tournaments world wide and audience world wide for these sports. There would be an outrage by specific IOC member nations if e-sports was included before these sports. The politics does not favor e-sports one bit. For starters, e-sports doesn't even have 1% of the political clout and money as Rugby and yet Rugby can't make it to the Olympics. 3) E-sports has no international organization governing it. Stop wasting time on this petition right now. The IOC will not deal with a sport without an international organization governing it. Instead of wasting time on this petition, waste your effort on getting an international organization governing e-sports first. When that happens, then we can come back to thinking about the Olympics. 4) Thanks to Fischbacher for mentioning this point. The representation of women in e-sports is very poor. The sport being considered would have to have enough competitive women playing it that the Olympics could have mens and womens events. The lack of women in e-sports is another nail in the coffin for e-sports being considered for the Olympics. Because of points 1), 2), 3), and 4) above, there is a 0% chance e-sports will be considered for the Olympics. For starters, fix point 3) before we even consider petitioning the IOC. | ||
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TechNoTrance
Canada1007 Posts
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TyrantPotato
Australia1541 Posts
imagine watching some movie esque gundam/transformers fighting style arena thing. it would be amazing. and if the simulator booth/cockpit simulated crashes/hits/g force (albiet some what) then it could be considered "athletic" but this is like 40 years in the future i guess. and thats just what i think would be cool. | ||
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gronnelg
Norway354 Posts
Primarly because of how unintuitive a complex game like sc2 is. I dont think you can watch and appreciate a game of sc2, without having a pretty good sense of whats going on. Any other olympic game is kind of intuitive. Although there's a lot of technical finesse you might not get, you easily understand the basics of javelin throw, running, shooting, etc. Think how much harder it would be to understand sc2. You would need to see a lot of games, and have someone telling you the basics all the while to even get a basic understanding of the most awesome game in the world (yes, that would be sc2 ^^). I just don't think the world at large is ready, or will ever be. | ||
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Ejohrik
Sweden219 Posts
I think we would rather have a separate "game-olympics" with board games, card games, and perhaps digital games. | ||
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iky43210
United States2099 Posts
mmos are the future of gaming | ||
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DangerAl
Australia88 Posts
On August 29 2012 12:36 dabom88 wrote: Why do you think Tennis's inclusion is silly? Tennis is a very physical sport with a worldwide set of players and audience. It's a no-brainer that it's included in the Olympics. Not to mention a much bigger pro scene. Progamers WISH they got paid as much as professional tennis players. As someone who played Varsity in High School, I feel kind of offended by this comment. I'm sorry to offend you. I understand that some might find the Olympic tennis tournament special. I do not, because I feel the four majors throughout the year all carry so much prestige as it is that the Olympic tennis doesn't really hold my attention as much. For most sports the Olympics is THE event that the athletes aspire to, THE event where their craft is showcased to the world. Many Olympic events don’t even get mainstream exposure outside of the Olympics (eg. Shooting, water polo, triathlons). Tennis seems to be the opposite of this, with quite a lot of exposure throughout the year, every year. I was also under the impression that the Olympics was primarily for amateur athletes, or at least that's the way it was traditionally. It has moved away from pure amateurism now of course, so tennis is allowed, but it still seems strange to me given the scale of the professional tennis scene. Again, this is just my opinion. Tennis in the Olympics doesn’t rock my boat, but I understand that it’s still special for some players and fans. | ||
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Megakenny
Canada829 Posts
On August 29 2012 16:56 Ejohrik wrote: Chess or Bridge have never become part of the olympics, even though they are both HUGE in all ages (3-100). There is no chance for any video game to become part of it. I think we would rather have a separate "game-olympics" with board games, card games, and perhaps digital games. Kind of like WCG with board/card games, if it was ran correctly?  | ||
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Celimas
United States75 Posts
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Gridlock
United Kingdom517 Posts
This can never happen. I can't express my feelings accurately about the thought of this, and people campaigning for it, so just NO. | ||
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Thorakh
Netherlands1788 Posts
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51456 Posts
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Xarles
459 Posts
However, if they are going to go with SC2 for Olympics foreigners are going to need to step up their game by A LOT. | ||
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imMUTAble787
United States680 Posts
why do people even want anything to do with the mainstream? the recent articles that have come out are just a taste of the ignorance that resides there. | ||
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See.Blue
United States2673 Posts
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Jakkerr
Netherlands2549 Posts
They are compareable to sports but it isn't the same. So in my opinion they shouldn't be at the olympics but instead should just organize a HUGE gaming only event. Cause also if games will be played at the olympics, what games will be played? For example, why would they play starcraft when League of Legends, Dota 2, Call of duty, World of Warcraft etc have way way way more fans and would ensure a way higher viewcount than starcraft. Something to think about cause at the end that's what matters. Even in the olympics. | ||
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IGotPlayguuu
Italy660 Posts
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ES.Genie
Germany1370 Posts
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Absurdly
Canada59 Posts
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Animzor
Sweden2154 Posts
On August 29 2012 19:30 Absurdly wrote: There is a reason they have hockey in the olympics and not NHL12 for PC. As much as I love SC2 as an Esport, having it or any other video game in the Olympics would be a disgrace. There are some sports in the Olympics that I don't agree with as it is, but video games would be even worse. Esports can stick to WCS. Well said, guy. | ||
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SupLilSon
Malaysia4123 Posts
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zanga
659 Posts
There is too much luck and randomness in starcraft compared to other olympic individual sports imo, it wouldnt fit in at all. | ||
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Yorbon
Netherlands4272 Posts
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KvltMan
Sweden1609 Posts
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Ejohrik
Sweden219 Posts
On August 29 2012 17:00 DangerAl wrote: I'm sorry to offend you. I understand that some might find the Olympic tennis tournament special. I do not, because I feel the four majors throughout the year all carry so much prestige as it is that the Olympic tennis doesn't really hold my attention as much. For most sports the Olympics is THE event that the athletes aspire to, THE event where their craft is showcased to the world. Many Olympic events don’t even get mainstream exposure outside of the Olympics (eg. Shooting, water polo, triathlons). Tennis seems to be the opposite of this, with quite a lot of exposure throughout the year, every year. I was also under the impression that the Olympics was primarily for amateur athletes, or at least that's the way it was traditionally. It has moved away from pure amateurism now of course, so tennis is allowed, but it still seems strange to me given the scale of the professional tennis scene. Again, this is just my opinion. Tennis in the Olympics doesn’t rock my boat, but I understand that it’s still special for some players and fans. What about football then? Do you find the football tournament in the olympics silly? | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
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See.Blue
United States2673 Posts
On August 29 2012 12:36 dabom88 wrote: Why do you think Tennis's inclusion is silly? Tennis is a very physical sport with a worldwide set of players and audience. It's a no-brainer that it's included in the Olympics. Not to mention a much bigger pro scene. Progamers WISH they got paid as much as professional tennis players. As someone who played Varsity in High School, I feel kind of offended by this comment. You get offended too easily. | ||
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AgentChaos
United Kingdom4569 Posts
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Torra
Norway469 Posts
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DangerAl
Australia88 Posts
On August 29 2012 19:46 Ejohrik wrote: What about football then? Do you find the football tournament in the olympics silly? Football/soccer was not in the Olympics in 2012. When it was featured, it was a little different to tennis in that the Olympics was the only major world soccer tournament apart from the World Cup, which ran every four years also (alternating with the Olympics). You would also see teams that represented countries, as opposed to teams that represented clubs or individuals (as with tennis). This gave it quite a different feel to regular professional soccer. The same goes for basketball (although basketball is basically free medals for the US ). | ||
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Lasbike
France2888 Posts
On August 29 2012 19:37 SupLilSon wrote: I love SC2 and videogames but I would not support them in the Olympics. Exactly my POV. I love SC2 and E-sports in general (CS, LoL, CoD) but it would just be wrong to have them in the Olympics. | ||
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Wertheron
France439 Posts
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Martacus
25 Posts
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LJ
203 Posts
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Denzil
United Kingdom4193 Posts
the olympics isn't about strategic or intellectual thinking it's more or less pushing the human body to achieve superhuman feats, and before anyone argues that moving your hand around at the speed of light microing your units qualifies as a superhuman feat, then Osu! should get into the olympics before Starcraft | ||
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supernovamaniac
United States3046 Posts
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Mr Showtime
United States1353 Posts
On August 29 2012 12:28 Savant wrote: Chess would have to get in before esports is even considered. Exactly this. Give up this dream. The olympics is an athletic competition. Neither Chess nor SC2 are athletic events. I wouldn't want to see it anyway. | ||
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Xiron
Germany1233 Posts
On August 29 2012 20:37 Mr Showtime wrote: Exactly this. Give up this dream. The olympics is an athletic competition. Neither Chess nor SC2 are athletic events. I wouldn't want to see it anyway. Speed hot dog eating would have to be an olympic sport before esports is even considered, too. It requires way more control over your body and than sc2 does. | ||
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Tanukki
Finland579 Posts
1) too loosely defined. Different competitive video games have seperate communities, they usually have a short period of life (BW is probably the leader, it lasted for 12 years as what can be considered a legit esport) 2) not mainstream enough. The percentage of people willing to accept, much less support olympic esports is probably very small. When it comes to the olympics, esports needs to work its way up to the mainstream before it has a chance. Can't start at the top. I could see a special one-time esports event in the olympics, for example if it explodes in South Korea even more, they become the host country for the olympics, and adopt an e-sports title as a national sport. | ||
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Daudr
Sweden275 Posts
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LeSioN
United States325 Posts
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LeSioN
United States325 Posts
On August 29 2012 21:06 Daudr wrote: I'd rather see an event parallel to the regular Olympics as well as the Paralympics. Esports is already consisting of multiple "sports" so it doesn't make any sense to include Esports as one game within the Olympics imo. actually the IOC defines sports as something like "aquatics" and then water polo would be a discipline. so esports would be a sport as a whole. | ||
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Talic_Zealot
688 Posts
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
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havox_
Germany442 Posts
On August 29 2012 12:28 Savant wrote: Chess would have to get in before esports is even considered. qft and close plz. Seriously, I love esports since many many years... but there are many other things that should be olympic before esports should be considered at all. additionally: esports is WAAAAAYYY too unprofessional to be an olympic sport yet (and i dont mean that there are no pro's in it... probably more than in many of the small olympic sports... but man, there are no official worldwide organizations, for most games not even nationally... there are often weird to no contracts...) | ||
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dabom88
United States3483 Posts
On August 29 2012 17:00 DangerAl wrote: I'm sorry to offend you. I understand that some might find the Olympic tennis tournament special. I do not, because I feel the four majors throughout the year all carry so much prestige as it is that the Olympic tennis doesn't really hold my attention as much. For most sports the Olympics is THE event that the athletes aspire to, THE event where their craft is showcased to the world. Many Olympic events don’t even get mainstream exposure outside of the Olympics (eg. Shooting, water polo, triathlons). Tennis seems to be the opposite of this, with quite a lot of exposure throughout the year, every year. I was also under the impression that the Olympics was primarily for amateur athletes, or at least that's the way it was traditionally. It has moved away from pure amateurism now of course, so tennis is allowed, but it still seems strange to me given the scale of the professional tennis scene. Again, this is just my opinion. Tennis in the Olympics doesn’t rock my boat, but I understand that it’s still special for some players and fans. You still haven't mentioned any real reason you think Tennis' inclusion is "silly". Why do you not think it holds any prestige? Just because World Cup exists doesn't mean Olympic Football/Soccer isn't important. Same with the PGA tour, X-Games for the Winter Olympics, various world Boxing organizations, etc. I just don't quite get your reasoning and would like to debate it with you. On August 29 2012 19:57 DangerAl wrote: Football/soccer was not in the Olympics in 2012. When it was featured, it was a little different to tennis in that the Olympics was the only major world soccer tournament apart from the World Cup, which ran every four years also (alternating with the Olympics). You would also see teams that represented countries, as opposed to teams that represented clubs or individuals (as with tennis). This gave it quite a different feel to regular professional soccer. The same goes for basketball (although basketball is basically free medals for the US ). What do you mean Football/Soccer wasn't in the Olympics in 2012? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_at_the_2012_Summer_Olympics I guess I lack understanding of teams representing clubs or individuals, and what sports are like this. I don't really follow that stuff, so you elaborating would be helpful. But there are several individual sports in the Olympics as well. Golf, Boxing, Wrestling, and many others where only one person stands on the Podium if they win. | ||
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Deleted User 26513
2376 Posts
On August 29 2012 19:57 DangerAl wrote: Football/soccer was not in the Olympics in 2012. When it was featured, it was a little different to tennis in that the Olympics was the only major world soccer tournament apart from the World Cup, which ran every four years also (alternating with the Olympics). You would also see teams that represented countries, as opposed to teams that represented clubs or individuals (as with tennis). This gave it quite a different feel to regular professional soccer. The same goes for basketball (although basketball is basically free medals for the US ). I don't even... Did you actually watch the olympics ? Football is olympic sport since 1900 till now(Berlin '36 was skipped). About e-Sports in the Olympic games. I'm not sure that it belongs there and I'm not sure if I want it there. | ||
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shivver
United States232 Posts
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Jonoman92
United States9102 Posts
On August 29 2012 21:34 shivver wrote: LOL at people writing this off.. esports is going to be BIGGER than ANY sport eventually. I don't know how long that will take, but it's going to happen and it will probably be in the olympics when it does happen. I seriously doubt your vehement assertion; the mainstream does not see video games as a spectator experience. I'm against E-sports being in the Olympics (not that it EVER will be.) The main reason being that... it is not a sport. No other Olympic competition can be be played purely by a computer. | ||
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DKR
United Kingdom622 Posts
On August 29 2012 21:52 Jonoman92 wrote: I seriously doubt your vehement assertion; the mainstream does not see video games as a spectator experience. I'm against E-sports being in the Olympics (not that it EVER will be.) The main reason being that... it is not a sport. No other Olympic competition can be be played purely by a computer. Thats a bad example IMO, you could create a machine which could hit a bullseye 100/100 times, just because you have an interface which could be used by machinery doesn't make something not a sport. I'd also be interested in Formula One as a sport if all competitors had one car to race in and set the fastest lap, or infact any kind of motor racing. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
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Daudr
Sweden275 Posts
On August 29 2012 21:10 LeSioN wrote: actually the IOC defines sports as something like "aquatics" and then water polo would be a discipline. so esports would be a sport as a whole. Oh, I didn't realize that. Still, I stand by my point that I'd rather see Esports in a different event, like WCG but good. Olympic Cyber Games? | ||
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Felnarion
442 Posts
Honestly, it's one of the few sports that would require a quick, steady hand AND lightning fast decision making. To say there's no physicality to it, simply because you don't sweat while doing it is silly. Really, I see it as no less difficult than shooting, or curling. | ||
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LOLingBuddha
Netherlands697 Posts
I could be wrong, or somewhat wrong.. didnt phelps run the risk of getting DQd for the leaked advertisement of him sitting in a tub, some handbag manufacturer? anyway, theres probably something im missing, but if any of it is true that would also be a problem. edit: baseball isnt even an Olympic sport anymore ^^ | ||
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RageBot
Israel1530 Posts
On August 29 2012 21:34 shivver wrote: LOL at people writing this off.. esports is going to be BIGGER than ANY sport eventually. I don't know how long that will take, but it's going to happen and it will probably be in the olympics when it does happen. Please, please tell me how esports are going to be more popular than football (not american football)? esports are not even as popular as football in Korea, not to mention anywhere else in the world, in order to play football all you need is a ball and an empty field, so anyone can play it, at any age. | ||
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LOLingBuddha
Netherlands697 Posts
On August 29 2012 22:51 RageBot wrote: Please, please tell me how esports are going to be more popular than football (not american football)? esports are not even as popular as football in Korea, not to mention anywhere else in the world, in order to play football all you need is a ball and an empty field, so anyone can play it, at any age. It never will be bigger than football (soccer) big difference is EVERYONE can play soccer, just make a little bal out of whatever you got laying around and you can play with your friends. good luck trying to play sc2 through string with cans on both sides. | ||
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ImNightmare
1575 Posts
On August 29 2012 21:34 shivver wrote: LOL at people writing this off.. esports is going to be BIGGER than ANY sport eventually. I don't know how long that will take, but it's going to happen and it will probably be in the olympics when it does happen. Damn dude, whatever you are taking I need some of that stuff too. | ||
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TheDougler
Canada8302 Posts
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Frex
Finland888 Posts
On August 29 2012 12:28 Savant wrote: Chess would have to get in before esports is even considered. Pretty much this. I don't agree with e-Sports making it to olympics, it just doesn't fit there. It's like golf or car racing, some things just don't fit in Olympics. | ||
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Reptilia
Chile913 Posts
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SigmaFiE
United States333 Posts
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qqK
Germany282 Posts
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Knee_of_Justice
United States388 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=156768 Starcraft 2 is a prime example of this. Don't get me wrong, I love this game, I love watching it and while I have lots of problems with it too, I think SC2 is great in and of itself. The problem though, is that SC2 is, as Dustin Browder puts it, like "Basketball 2." http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/123776/GDC_2011_Developing_StarCraft_II_Like_Inventing_Basketball_2.php But no one ever considers making a basketball 2 because basketball alone is enough. The problem is that as time goes on, new games come out, sequels are created, old games fall out of favor. Who here still plays Broodwar? I certainly don't. Yet Broodwar was/is a great esport -- maybe even the greatest esport. But after 10 years, no one really plays it anymore: only a very small group of dedicated fans. It's no longer current; it no longer has a substantially expanding player base. Does that sound similar to any other sport you know of? That very few newcomers attempt to compete in it? That even amateurs rarely play it "just for fun?" That people just lose interest in it after its natural lifetime has become exhausted? Videogames will always be replaced by the next generation sooner or later ensuring that while "esports" as a whole may be here to stay, individual esports will come and go, leading to no longevity for individual events. Imagine if individual track and field events were constantly fluctuating because they became "outdated..." edit: and furthermore, there's no expectation that there should be a basketball 2 as there is with many videogames | ||
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Raygun
348 Posts
I'd love to be a fly on the wall though when the SC2 ISF tried to explain to the IOC why their video game marines were taking performance enhancing drugs. | ||
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Facultyadjutant
Sweden1876 Posts
On August 29 2012 23:45 Knee_of_Justice wrote: People on these forums really need to read this thread: "The Problem with Esports" http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=156768 Starcraft 2 is a prime example of this. Don't get me wrong, I love this game, I love watching it and while I have lots of problems with it too, I think SC2 is great in and of itself. The problem though, is that SC2 is, as Dustin Browder puts it, is like "Basketball 2." http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/123776/GDC_2011_Developing_StarCraft_II_Like_Inventing_Basketball_2.php But no one ever considers making a basketball 2 because basketball alone is enough. The problem is that as time goes on, new games come out, sequels are created, old games fall out of favor. Who here still plays Broodwar? I certainly don't. Yet Broodwar was/is a great esport -- maybe even the greatest esport. But after 10 years, no one really plays it anymore: only a very small group of dedicated fans. Does that sound similar to any other sport you know of? That people just lose interest in it after its natural lifetime has become exhausted? Videogames will always be replaced by the next generation sooner or later ensuring that while "esports" as a whole may be here to stay, individual esports will come and go, leading to no longevity for individual events. So? Even if it is just 8 years (2 olympics) that is fantastic. Theres a shitton of sports in the olympics that have less practicers than esports and less appeal. Esport is just fine for olympics | ||
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orBitual
United States96 Posts
On August 29 2012 23:52 Facultyadjutant wrote: So? Even if it is just 8 years (2 olympics) that is fantastic. Theres a shitton of sports in the olympics that have less practicers than esports and less appeal. Esport is just fine for olympics What makes it fantastic? I like SC2, but it doesn't fit the spirit of the Olympics at all. I don't even understand why you would WANT SC2 in the Olympics. I guess we could add it alongside Goldeneye, M:TG, D&D and UNO. Makes perfect sense... | ||
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bubblegumbo
Taiwan1296 Posts
Do you see professional chess or poker in the Olympics? No, but there is nothing to stop them from having their own big thing if they are that popular. | ||
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Sinedd
Poland7052 Posts
why ? because the games that are being played on a pro level change too often I think | ||
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Raygun
348 Posts
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radscorpion9
Canada2252 Posts
On August 30 2012 00:14 Raygun wrote: Also, do you think that Blizzard would relinquish rule changes to an ISF? I'm fairly certain that the IOC would never allow a corporation that creates a game to also act as the ISF, correct me if there is precedence. Rule changes would include all balance changes, bug fixes that impact game play, and map selection. And then isn't there the whole question of whether the game is truly balanced or not? We don't really know whether, with time, a certain race will figure out certain impervious strategies to the point where they will have a permanent advantage (imagine it being zerg, for example). That would make the whole thing pretty controversial, especially with heart of the swarm coming out and the myriad balance changes that will probably be coming out of that in the next few years (and then its expansion). If any game is going to make it, assuming you create an international federation and garner enough world-wide support (which apparently hasn't been enough to get rugby included yet!!), it would probably be something like counter-strike GO. Not only because the balance is fairly even for both sides as they both have access to nearly the same equipment, but because its a spectator sport that can be immediately enjoyed by any audience. SC2 faces another hurdle of having to explain exactly what units and buildings are, as well as their upgrades and how they counter each other...for three races. Is the average person going to sit down and take 10 minutes to understand this, or watch his beloved basketball or tennis game which is much more widely supported? I'm surprised that the CEO of a gamer institute hasn't thought of any of these cons, I guess he isn't aware of his own bias. | ||
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xrapture
United States1644 Posts
Chess needs to get in before esports can be considered. Chess is a much harder game, way more popular, and is also balanced. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5214 Posts
On August 29 2012 11:39 HotGlueGun wrote: Sorry, but basically every olympic event requires much more overall physical activity than SC2 by a long shot, even shooting. http://www.issf-academy.com/courses/fundamentals-of-pistol.html Also, the general public will have an overwhelmingly negative view of eSports if cyber athletes are put on the same pedestal as Olympian athletes. He said it requires intensive physical training... shooting does not. Kimberly Rhobes is probably considered obese by her BMI, if not then just overweight. She doesn't shoot pistols either, but anyway the "Fundamentals of Pistol" that you linked goes only to show that it is more about hand and body position and breathing than pure strength, agility or fitness. Which is the same with SC2, you need good hand position, good posture, ect... so the evidence you presented in your argument really only strengthens mine... And that was my whole point, that not all Olympics sports require intensive physical training. To be really great at SC2 you need to have great hands, as well as a great mind. If I knew more about shooting I could make a similar statement. All that being said, I don't think SC2 should be an Olympic sport (nor should shooting be), but it shouldn't not qualify because it doesn't take enough physical activity if shooting is there. | ||
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sVnteen
Germany2238 Posts
and I'm sure many more people would watch sc2 for example instead of some of the olympic sports tbh | ||
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nvs.
Canada3609 Posts
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FairForever
Canada2392 Posts
On August 30 2012 00:41 BronzeKnee wrote: He said it requires intensive physical training... shooting does not. Kimberly Rhobes is probably considered obese by her BMI, if not then just overweight. She doesn't shoot pistols either, but anyway the "Fundamentals of Pistol" that you linked goes only to show that it is more about hand and body position and breathing than pure strength, agility or fitness. Which is the same with SC2, you need good hand position, good posture, ect... so the evidence you presented in your argument really only strengthens mine... And that was my whole point, that not all Olympics sports require intensive physical training. To be really great at SC2 you need to have great hands, as well as a great mind. If I knew more about shooting I could make a similar statement. All that being said, I don't think SC2 should be an Olympic sport (nor should shooting be), but it shouldn't not qualify because it doesn't take enough physical activity if shooting is there. Can't tell if you're being serious, you've obviously never shot in your life. As someone who plays both SC2 and shoots at a range, I can tell you that firing a gun is a LOT more strenuous (physically) than playing SC2. | ||
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MrMotionPicture
United States4327 Posts
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Scurvy
United States117 Posts
On August 29 2012 23:17 Rokoz wrote: Pretty much this. I don't agree with e-Sports making it to olympics, it just doesn't fit there. It's like golf or car racing, some things just don't fit in Olympics. Golf will be in Rio. | ||
]343[
United States10328 Posts
On August 30 2012 00:03 Sinedd wrote: because the games that are being played on a pro level change too often That, and I don't think the Olympics would want to endorse something produced by only one company. There was already a huge thread on this earlier; why are the same arguments being rehashed over and over... I'll quote what I said there: On August 08 2012 00:43 ]343[ wrote: SC2 and chess are not on the same level at all. People (and more recently, computers) have been studying chess seriously since the late 1800s. SC2 will be just a memory in a hundred years. Instead, SC2 can probably be in the electronic Olympics... oh wait, there's the WCG. SC2 is already in the WCG. Woo? The other problem with putting a video game in the Olympics is longevity. WCG, for example, keeps very few of its games between years. SC2 is not even three years old. Even BW... hell, even Tetris is pretty young by sports standards. What (competitive) video games do you think will honestly last more than 30 years at the highest level? Competitive (1v1) Tetris isn't much older than BW either, and the number of good players is honestly pretty small. SC2 might last 10 years if it's lucky, and if Blizzard keeps pushing it and supporting it so much. But when Blizzard comes out with SC3, they no longer have any reason to care about SC2 anymore... in fact, if they follow historical precedent, they're probably just going to kill it off. (Finally, SC2 isn't even as popular as LoL... why would they choose SC2 over LoL?) | ||
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Kal_rA
United States2925 Posts
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Torvaltz
United States188 Posts
I also doubt any of the board members would let it happen. The people there seem to hate everything that isn't physical competition. | ||
GizmoPT
Portugal3040 Posts
On August 30 2012 07:14 Torvaltz wrote: The Olympics seem to me as the pinnacle of physical competition. Though it does take dexterity and speed to play Starcraft, it requires a lot less physical training and conditioning. It's hard to say that progamers are of godlike stature (except Reach and Nada) so I think that it wouldn't be very olympic. I also doubt any of the board members would let it happen. The people there seem to hate everything that isn't physical competition. what about shooting and archery that are in the olympics ? xp | ||
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IMABUNNEH
United Kingdom1062 Posts
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Vapaach
Finland994 Posts
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dabom88
United States3483 Posts
On August 30 2012 07:29 GizmoPT wrote: what about shooting and archery that are in the olympics ? xp Have you ever shot or done archery? They DO require a lot of physicality. On August 30 2012 08:19 Vapaach wrote: I would like to remind everyone that chess isn't balanced either, as white is consistently winning substantially more than black according to chess statistics. The first turn advantage is negligible enough to be close to one of the most balanced games around. Go is really balanced as well depending on the Kifu. Poker is balanced, but Olympics probably aren't interested in games with a big luck element. | ||
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MrTortoise
1388 Posts
but the analogy between computer games and sports is *tenuous* at best. Poker is not a sport ... it is a game. Sure you can argue against it, but then i can use hyperbole and dismiss your arguments. Afterall surely having a wank can be considered a sport which means a line needs to be drawn ... most people draw that line at games involving athletics, not games that measure ability much like a typist would with wpm (except esports legends dont type words ... they only get measured on single characters). When arguing computer games are an esport all you are saying is 'I want to define sport as encompassing more than reasonable people want to' Which is fine, but be honest about why you want to do it. Go is balanced as well depending on the kifu? wtf how is a game record ever going to be something that determines the balance of the game. You look at balance accross millions of games ... go is considered to be quite strongly favored towards the first move ... I am a bit out of date on komi but i believe it was 4.5 last i checked in an even game (apparently its 6.5). And as someone who is very passionate about go i have to say it most definatley is NOT a sport despite the fact that i spent many years training at it for several hours a day - every day. It is a highly competative and awesome game that everyone should learn to play imo. The depth of the game is something you still wont comprehend after 10 years playing it - but you will comprehend just how much deeper it is than you ever thought imaginable. Just like many many other games out there. The thing you have to bear in mind about professional go is that these guys are so good that its not just about winning, its about winning so hard that you make the game as close as you possibly can. IE I am so good that I have this game locked up but i'm only going to win by 0.5-2 points - and i know that 30 moves before the end of the game. | ||
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peekn
United States1152 Posts
I mean chess has never made it in and that has been around for ages. Chess would have gotten in long before any sort of eSport would. | ||
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Onlinejaguar
Australia2823 Posts
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Knee_of_Justice
United States388 Posts
On August 29 2012 23:52 Facultyadjutant wrote: So? Even if it is just 8 years (2 olympics) that is fantastic. Theres a shitton of sports in the olympics that have less practicers than esports and less appeal. Esport is just fine for olympics I think I didnt make my warrant clear enough. Let me point out that if you assume that an esports title will last 2 or 3 olympics only, that kind of longevity will not allow it to compare favorably with "true" sports like football, basketball, or whatever, which have long histories, or at least the potential to draw new fans and players throughout the coming generations. You don't need basketball 2 because basketball itself will appeal to any generation of human beings, whether now or in 100 years. The fundamentals of basketball do not need to be updated, altered or replaced in any substantial way to appeal to newer generations of players and fans. Along with all the other major flaws that other people are highlighting in this thread, do you really think that the IOC would allow a game (esport, whatever) like SC2 in the olympics knowing that it has a lifetime of only about 2-3 olympics? Maybe combined esports have a lot of appeal, but there are serious problems with individual esports titles surviving the test of time. Even if "esports" were pitched as a collection of events like track and field, it still wouldnt have enough stability to stand up well in comparison to existing events. | ||
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