EPT[Resolved] Kespa, GOM, ESF dispute - Page 43
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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NoobSkills
United States1603 Posts
On August 26 2012 19:00 boxman22 wrote: Lol this is probably the best post in the thread. Certainly the funniest  . Issue is, is that everyone knows why KESPA isn't sharing their players. They don't want to lol, nothing about schedules even though they "promised" to join season 5? | ||
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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TheAmazombie
United States3714 Posts
On August 26 2012 18:58 disciple wrote: jeopardizing a running tournament with a set sponsorship is really throwing the nukes by ESF. how is KeSPA all in the wrong I cant understand. I don't think that they are ALL in the wrong at all, it is a dick move to pull out of the OSL, but I think that the ESF is doing what they think or feel that they must do to hold onto their agreement, help the KeSPA players, and help GOM that has gone out of its way to support the teams, players, fans, and global SC2 eSports. Yeah, it sucks and I hope they can get it resolved because I think that a new, open KeSPA and GOM league would be the best state of things, not just GOM or not just KeSPA. I guess that the ESF teams and players feel that it is justified to make waves at this point, so I have to assume, based on KeSPA's past, that their motivations are more reasonable than KeSPAs. I hope that in the end it is worked out and it will all be water under the bridge when we get our first Flash vs. MVP GSL finals. =) | ||
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BgSBendeR
Canada170 Posts
On August 26 2012 19:03 monkybone wrote: It's all there in the announcement. With the recent communication between Kespa and Gom it was more than expected that Kespa would actively participate in GSL and Gom in OSL. It was absolutely obligatory for continued cooperation between them. With the Gom players helping with making the first OSL a success, Kespa pulling out of the GSL at the same time is a huge stab in the back, and without the trust of Kespa participating continually in the GSL Gom would be killing themselves serving Kespa by sending their players to the OSL. Which is a reasonable stance considering their past. Technically, KeSPA never pulled out since they didn't enter the qualifications to begin with. eSF players on the other hand,already entered the OSL and decided to pull out when scheduling was already set up and such.. Cry all you want about KeSPA trying to kill GOM but in my eyes they're doing it right. Look at what happened with WCS, eSF players like MC, Mvp, HerO all entered but had to forfeit their spot later on for another tournament... That's what happens when you don't schedule things properly and still take part in a qualifier. KeSPA is trying to avoid that by not sending their players in the GSL to start with. | ||
disciple
9071 Posts
On August 26 2012 19:03 monkybone wrote: It's all there in the announcement. With the recent communication between Kespa and Gom it was more than expected that Kespa would actively participate in GSL and Gom in OSL. It was absolutely obligatory for continued cooperation between them. With the Gom players helping with making the first OSL a success, Kespa pulling out of the GSL at the same time is a huge stab in the back, and without the trust of Kespa participating continually in the GSL Gom would be killing themselves serving Kespa by sending their players to the OSL. I understand that, but KeSPA pulling out of the GSL has no direct consequences on the tournament right now, unlike ESF's move which basically fucks up the OSL completely. The whole situation screams of power tripping and lack of communication, and the measures taken by ESF are to me as extreme and immature as they can get. | ||
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achan1058
1091 Posts
On August 26 2012 19:10 disciple wrote: I understand that, but KeSPA pulling out of the GSL has no direct consequences on the tournament right now, unlike ESF's move which basically fuckup the OSL completely. The whole situation screems of power tripping and lack of communication, and the measures taken by ESF are to me as extreme and immature as they can get. This is what unions do. I normally don't back unions, but this one rare time I do. | ||
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boxman22
Canada430 Posts
On August 26 2012 19:10 disciple wrote: I understand that, but KeSPA pulling out of the GSL has no direct consequences on the tournament right now, unlike ESF's move which basically fucks up the OSL completely. The whole situation screams of power tripping and lack of communication, and the measures taken by ESF are to me as extreme and immature as they can get. GOM asked Kespa to join GSL 3, they said too busy. GOM figured they'd work with them so Kespa could join season 4. GOM asked Kespa to join GSL 4, they said too busy. GOM realized they had to do something more. | ||
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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Thrillz
4313 Posts
On August 26 2012 19:10 disciple wrote: I understand that, but KeSPA pulling out of the GSL has no direct consequences on the tournament right now, unlike ESF's move which basically fucks up the OSL completely. The whole situation screams of power tripping and lack of communication, and the measures taken by ESF are to me as extreme and immature as they can get. I think eSF entrance on OSL was under the belief that KeSPA would "play nice" and cooperate. Yeah it sucks that they had to pull out during as it is terrible timing. Then again, if KeSPA announce they would not be participating earlier then eSF probably wouldn't have entered OSL anyways. | ||
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boag11
United States28 Posts
On August 26 2012 19:10 disciple wrote: I understand that, but KeSPA pulling out of the GSL has no direct consequences on the tournament right now, unlike ESF's move which basically fucks up the OSL completely. The whole situation screams of power tripping and lack of communication, and the measures taken by ESF are to me as extreme and immature as they can get. Kespa pulling out of GSL 4 might not have any immediate consequences but it can have affects for many tournaments down the road when it involves ESF and Kespa players. And with ESFs decision, even though it hurts now, it may perhaps be better for esports overall in the long run. Sometimes one must be sacrificed in order to save the many. | ||
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BgSBendeR
Canada170 Posts
On August 26 2012 19:17 monkybone wrote: So it happens that we were in the middle of an OSL, and the GSL was about to start. What difference is the timing, would Kespa be wrong if they had pulled out before the OSL had even started? Of course it was a calculated move to announce this so late, and in the middle of the OSL to ensure that the Gom players couldn't do the same (or so they thought). At least they would gather sympathy points if the Gom players did (or so they thought). EDIT: Well, some people are siding with Kespa. It actually makes it even worse that they timed it in this fashion. They made the situation they way it is. OSL desperately needs the Gom players to succeed. And Kespa thought they would get the best of both worlds by having the OSL run this far and then pull out. Remember that you have to see this in the light of their recent communication and promises of cooperation. It's not even fair to KeSPA. They still haven't made a full transition to SC2. Get eSF players to practice both BW and SC2 and see how tiring it is. KeSPA said they would join in Season 5. By that time, the Proleague will be SC2 only.. then it will be fair. In my eyes GOM and eSF are the ones being dicks. | ||
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boag11
United States28 Posts
On August 26 2012 19:21 BgSBendeR wrote: It's not even fair to KeSPA. They still haven't made a full transition to SC2. Get eSF players to practice both BW and SC2 and see how tiring it is. KeSPA said they would join in Season 5. By that time, the Proleague will be SC2 only.. then it will be fair. In my eyes GOM and eSF are the ones being dicks. If Kespa deemed it not being fair then why did they send players to WCS and invited ESF players to OSL? You cant say it isnt fair when you have to play tournaments of other organizers but it is perfectly ok when you host your own. | ||
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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boxman22
Canada430 Posts
"KeSPA players will be presented at SC2 Proleague, OSL, WCG Korean representative qualifiers, WCS and MLG online matches, MLG final invitational. Their regular week schedule will be 4 days for Proleague, 2 days for OSL, 2days for MLG cross matches. Therefore, KeSPA decided not to join GSL Season 4 because of their busy schedule" Let's look at it from an individual's standpoint. 1 day a week proleague. Maybe 1 day a week OSL. Maybe 1 day a week WCS. And I have no idea what the hell they mean by MLG cross matches, since they're given seeds to the MLG which is one weekend (and if they mean the qualifiers that is just about once every 10 days assuming they keep winning)... Obviously MUUUUUCH too busy. Compare that to any given GOM pro. OSL, WCS, MLG, IPL, IPTL, ESV, Dreamhack, IEM, NASL, and GSL/GSTL... | ||
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6BiT
513 Posts
On August 26 2012 19:16 boxman22 wrote: GOM asked Kespa to join GSL 3, they said too busy. GOM figured they'd work with them so Kespa could join season 4. GOM asked Kespa to join GSL 4, they said too busy. GOM realized they had to do something more. I thought it was already established that esf is not gom :S To the people saying the move is abit extreme/drastic, yes it is, but esf is a union after all lol Cant help but feel the timing was very intentional, announce no GSL participation after televised OSL group selection and such. I feel sad for the Kespa players, reading WCS Korea interviews some of said they would like to play in the Code A qualifiers this season (its all experience after all). | ||
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disciple
9071 Posts
On August 26 2012 19:16 boxman22 wrote: GOM asked Kespa to join GSL 3, they said too busy. GOM figured they'd work with them so Kespa could join season 4. GOM asked Kespa to join GSL 4, they said too busy. GOM realized they had to do something more. The statement released by ESF doesn't imply to me that pulling out of the OSL was a measure considered and discussed by both sides while working on this partnership. KeSPA sure are dicking around and feel like beeing completely in control, but that doesn't justify the fact ESF went for the worse option they got - not only in terms of this tournament and the image of OSL but for the future of this partnership in general. Nukes were just thrown on a day notice. | ||
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boxman22
Canada430 Posts
On August 26 2012 19:26 disciple wrote: The statement released by ESF doesn't imply to me that pulling out of the OSL was a measure considered and discussed by both sides while working on this partnership. KeSPA sure are dicking around and feel like beeing completely in control, but that doesn't justify the fact ESF went for the worse option they got - not only in terms of this tournament and the image of OSL but for the future of this partnership in general. Nukes were just thrown on a day notice. Well what would you like them to have done? There's no way to assume kespa will do anything. Kespa are "dicking around". Oh so they're just playing around trying to get a monopoly on the Korean SC2 scene, whereas ESF is "throwing nukes". LOL. Nice try. | ||
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achan1058
1091 Posts
On August 26 2012 19:24 boxman22 wrote: Also this is my favorite quote: + Show Spoiler + "KeSPA players will be presented at SC2 Proleague, OSL, WCG Korean representative qualifiers, WCS and MLG online matches, MLG final invitational. Their regular week schedule will be 4 days for Proleague, 2 days for OSL, 2days for MLG cross matches. Therefore, KeSPA decided not to join GSL Season 4 because of their busy schedule" Let's look at it from an individual's standpoint. 1 day a week proleague. Maybe 1 day a week OSL. Maybe 1 day a week WCS. And I have no idea what the hell they mean by MLG cross matches, since they're given seeds to the MLG which is one weekend (and if they mean the qualifiers that is just about once every 10 days assuming they keep winning)... Obviously MUUUUUCH too busy. Compare that to any given GOM pro. OSL, WCS, MLG, IPL, IPTL, ESV, Dreamhack, IEM, NASL, and GSL/GSTL... It's not like all of ESF is going to all of these tournaments. I am pretty much under the impression that KeSPA moves as a block. The teams and team sponsors cannot individually decide who/where to send their players easily. I mean, I don't think Samsung can say "Reality, drop out of WCS and go to IEM now. LG is sending a bunch of their guys there". (which is what LG-IM basically did) Incidentally, this is one of the other problem with KeSPA vs eSF. I rather this to be sort out now, then to have a strife between the sponsors/teams/blah later on. | ||
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Tossi83
Poland24 Posts
On August 26 2012 19:10 disciple wrote: I understand that, but KeSPA pulling out of the GSL has no direct consequences on the tournament right now, unlike ESF's move which basically fucks up the OSL completely. The whole situation screams of power tripping and lack of communication, and the measures taken by ESF are to me as extreme and immature as they can get. The measures taken by ESF may be extreme but are supported by most of players and fans. Why? Because KeSPA have the history of not playing nice and being flawed. With their move KeSPA basically said "We won't play nice until you force us" and then ESF said "Ok we will force you if that's what you want". Also, as I said in one of my earlier posts a mixed tournament ESF vs KeSPA is a big chance for an influx of interest which is a nice cake and KeSPA with their move said "Only we will eat this cake, we may share it later in some time, some way, some place but we don't guarantee it" while earlier this year they made an agreement to share and eat cakes together. Another point is: it is not about direct consequences, it is about longterm consequences and you pointing direct consequences is a bit shortsighted on your side I think. | ||
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