EPTOn August 25 2012 23:20 Pudge_172 wrote:
Gom=good guys Kespa=bad guys
Gom=good guys Kespa=bad guys
Really? At this point its hard to tell the difference between the two with GOM trying to now strong arm Kespa's players.
[Resolved] Kespa, GOM, ESF dispute - Page 18
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BamBam
745 Posts
Really? At this point its hard to tell the difference between the two with GOM trying to now strong arm Kespa's players. | ||
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fabiano
Brazil4644 Posts
On August 25 2012 23:09 Crow! wrote: Kespa decided to skip SC2 when it was still young and a potentially risky switch, instead letting GOM pick up the exclusive contract. IMO they should just accept that they are not and will never be the authority for this game, because someone else stepped up to the plate when they didn't years ago. Dude, are you fucking serious? ahaha | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
On August 25 2012 23:21 BgSBendeR wrote: I think the eSF guys are also being dicks. No one forced them to play in the OSL Prelims or take the seeds. They chose to do so on their own. Now that everything is scheduled, they decide to back out simply because KeSPA who told GOMTV in advance(Before prelims) that they won't be participating in upcoming GSL due to scheduling conflict. Had Kespa gone through the prelims then backed out, it would be different.. They didn't. They let everyone beleive that kespa players would play in season 4. Then they let the OSL group selection happen (one could say they delayed the announcement until after the group selection to take the players hostages so they could not pull off) then told "by the way, no GSL for kespa, sorry about that". They should just let the coaches and players decide who can and who can't play. | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
On August 25 2012 23:15 DougJDempsey wrote: its the principle of the matter... their original goal in pulling out of the OSL was to get kespa players in season 4. they said season 5, not 4, not onwards from 5 either.. because of schedule conflict. pl will be still going on for a bit longer, playoffs still havnt started, reason why they also couldnt go to mlg...kespa said they werent sure if theyll be ready but then they said they can make it later on but mlg said the plane tickets became too expensive after the later notice and couldnt accommodate the players. (take it at face value from statement, no need to insert "they want to kill gom"). pl needs a lot of preparation so the team or rather kespa would rather not let them lose focus on whats important. and still needs to deal with wcs and osl. esf asked to extend the gsl 4 qualifier on behalf of kespa so they can play. this is great move, esf wants to help kespa solve their scheduling conflict and hopefully, kespa helps a little bit out too by allowing the decision to be made by the team, not kespa speaking for all the teams. i think this is the best route at the moment, kespa needs to give the authority on who can play and who cant to the team because who knows best for the player than them that takes care of them? coaches will knows who is doing good in sc2, who is ready and/or willing or has time between pl, osl, wcs. please dont forget kespa doesnt treat these tournaments like mlg, a lot of preparation goes before the match for these long tournaments or matches with pre-announced match ups and it'll be hard to play multiple opponents in short period of time. | ||
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xBillehx
United States1289 Posts
On August 25 2012 23:09 boag11 wrote: All Kespa have to do to save OS2L is to allow Kespa players the option to participate in GSL, as well as an agreement with all involved that that option will not be taken away. Kespa should never of taken away the option for players to play in non Kespa affiliated leagues. Whether you believe ESF and or Kespa is in the wrong, it is hard to deny that all that needs to be done is for Kespa to allow all Kespa players the option to participate in other Tournaments. It should be up to the coaches to decide whether it is beneficial for a player to play in GSL qualifiers or not. Yup. I'm a fan of the players first and foremost. If the players & individual coaches want to play my opinion is just let them play. I don't expect the 4 teams in playoffs to put their players up but teams like KT should be able to if they want to. | ||
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redviper
Pakistan2333 Posts
With slayers being non-eSF I also wonder if their players will side with kespa on this? | ||
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Blueblister
Sweden321 Posts
On August 25 2012 22:14 iKill wrote: Here's a few examples, by no means comprehensive. - Kicked players out of tournaments for typing things in ingame chat - Threatened players with exclusion from prominent tournaments for competing at unsanctioned events - Locked players in an all-inclusive union aimed at profit instead of player welfare - Discouraged players from standing up for themselves - Intervened when a player (NaDa) tried to play a broadcasted SC2 match (before he left BW) - Prevented players from competing at international events In short, KeSPA is a hypercontrolling nightmare of an organization that tries to give and take progamers' permission to play at events. On August 25 2012 22:22 BLinD-RawR wrote: jaedong free agency debacle, leta ZiZi Yo debacle, pp incidents, 2007 IEG thing (not the article I'm looking for but this explains the situation) Remember, all organizations does wrong occasionally. The important points above are the ones related to hampering the players free will/speech as well as shutting down competitors. Main issue being BW players are forced to join Kespa, otherwise they can't compete, and that SC2 is going in the same direction. Kespa used their player monopoly to force league organizers into submission. This was how MBC Teamleague was shut down. Kespa further used their player monopoly to claim control over Proleague broadcasting licenses, a league they weren't around to create. Ever wondered why you never see Korean BW pros participate in online cups? Kespa is the answer. | ||
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Squirrel
United States1097 Posts
Then ESF kinda slapped them down... Honestly, I agree with ESF's choice. Kespa would likely keep saying "No, not this GSL, we're too important. Maybe next GSL" and try to screw over GOM AGAIN. ESF, right now, has the power to cripple Kespa...and they're taking advantage of it. Kespa isn't as powerful in SC2 as they were in BW...and hopefully it stays that way. | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On August 25 2012 23:28 MrCon wrote: They didn't. They let everyone beleive that kespa players would play in season 4. Then they let the OSL group selection happen (one could say they delayed the announcement until after the group selection to take the players hostages so they could not pull off) then told "by the way, no GSL for kespa, sorry about that". They should just let the coaches and players decide who can and who can't play. Dude its before the qualifiers and therefore not like "Oh shit where are those kespa guys?" "Hello? Yeah we are not going to be able to make it...." "FUUU" | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On August 25 2012 23:23 Femari wrote: KeSPA shouldn't decide that anyway, the teams should. How are you avoiding the overlap? In this case you should replace teams with the KeSPA players and that would sound more accurate. I assure you every player would want to participate but team management probably want more time to prepare their players by the same token. Another way of looking at it is the corporations who sponsor these teams and have members on the KeSPA board are protecting their invested interest. Both organizations are jockeying for position. You guys are upset with it and that's fine, but there is logic behind it. | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On August 25 2012 23:29 Blueblister wrote: Remember, all organizations does wrong occasionally. The important points above are the ones related to hampering the players free will/speech as well as shutting down competitors. Main issue being BW players are forced to join Kespa, otherwise they can't compete, and that SC2 is going in the same direction. Kespa used their player monopoly to force league organizers into submission. This was how MBC Teamleague was shut down. Kespa further used their player monopoly to claim control over Proleague broadcasting licenses, a league they weren't around to create. Ever wondered why you never see Korean BW participate in online cups? Kespa is the answer. You do realize that all recent PPP incidents are corrected in ways that if one press P or any number of it, they are granted the pause. The organization is evolving. | ||
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See.Blue
United States2673 Posts
On August 25 2012 22:25 Sethronu wrote: - Kicked players out of tournaments for typing things in ingame chat Reasonable rule which exists in all modern tournaments in at least some iteration of it. Nothing wrong with having a rule against irrelevant banter in the middle of a televised match. - Threatened players with exclusion from prominent tournaments for competing at unsanctioned events Specific examples? - Locked players in an all-inclusive union aimed at profit instead of player welfare Bullshit. KeSPA in itself is a non-profit organization; one of it's goals is to secure stable and sufficient funding for the teams. Player welfare is a very fickle thing - you might argue that individual players could have been better off, but as a whole, the system worked and provided security and stability for the players. There's a reason why no truly established players switched to SC2 at release, and even B-teamers who switched weren't numerous at all. - Discouraged players from standing up for themselves Like? That's just hogwash. - Intervened when a player (NaDa) tried to play a broadcasted SC2 match (before he left BW) Considering the situation Blizzard put them in at SC2 release, there's absolutely no surprise about that. Did happen, was it KeSPA's fault? Hardly. - Prevented players from competing at international events Such as? I love the new generation Kespa apologists that are popping up these days. What a gas | ||
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ch33psh33p
7650 Posts
On August 25 2012 23:30 See.Blue wrote: I love the new generation Kespa apologists that are popping up these days. What a gas Its really embarrassing. Literally, they have no idea what they're talking about, and are extremely lazy to even do their own damn research. | ||
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Femari
United States2900 Posts
On August 25 2012 23:29 StarStruck wrote: How are you avoiding the overlap? In this case you should replace teams with the KeSPA players and that would sound more accurate. I assure you every player would want to participate but team management probably want more time to prepare their players by the same token. Another way of looking at it is the corporations who sponsor these teams and have members on the KeSPA board are protecting their invested interest. Both organizations are jockeying for position. You guys are upset with it and that's fine, but there is logic behind it. Well of course there's that but the general idea is that the power shouldn't rest with KeSPA, directly or indirectly. | ||
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SarcasmMonster
3136 Posts
On August 25 2012 23:16 floor exercise wrote: Their star players is like the main attraction. I don't see a problem at all with them not wanting them to compete in what is a direct competitor's league. Maybe once they've established their own league like GSL has done for 2 years, there can be some beautiful MSL/OSL synergy among the leagues. But if 'ESF' (are we still pretending Mr. Chae has nothing to do with it? Just like last time right?) and Kespa want to go their own ways for now so be it. What is the big deal? Are you 100%, without a single doubt, sure that Mr. Chae is behind all this? Is he even part of ESF? | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On August 25 2012 23:29 Seam wrote: For me, it really feels like KespA was trying to bully their way around, and show that THEY still have the power to keep players out of other leagues. Likely thinking their BW power would carry over. Then ESF kinda slapped them down... Honestly, I agree with ESF's choice. Kespa would likely keep saying "No, not this GSL, we're too important. Maybe next GSL" and try to screw over GOM AGAIN. ESF, right now, has the power to cripple Kespa...and they're taking advantage of it. Kespa isn't as powerful in SC2 as they were in BW...and hopefully it stays that way. They most certainly don't call all the shots but to say they still don't have power? I don't know about that man. They might not have the same influence, but they do have the backing of mega corporations who have a lot of money and the Korean government is behind them as well. This idea of crippling? Nah, like I said this is political and all that's happening is they're jockeying for position and there is no real end to it. | ||
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Roggay
Switzerland6320 Posts
On August 25 2012 23:25 Energizer wrote: Really? At this point its hard to tell the difference between the two with GOM trying to now strong arm Kespa's players. Strong arm Kespa's players... really? In case you didnt understand, they aren't trying to force the players to participate, they are trying to force Kespa to give the choice to their players. | ||
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Zalfor
United States1035 Posts
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rebdomine
6040 Posts
KesPA might've been jerks by deciding to disallow their players from trying for GSL, but to me ESF look like the bigger assholes by ruiining a tournament that is already going on. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On August 25 2012 23:33 Femari wrote: Well of course there's that but the general idea is that the power shouldn't rest with KeSPA, directly or indirectly. I think we can all agree on that, but competitive businesses and unions always work this way. Not just professional sports. | ||
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