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[Resolved] Kespa, GOM, ESF dispute - Page 17

Forum Index > SC2 General
2275 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 15 16 17 18 19 114 Next
Night Eyes
Profile Joined January 2011
433 Posts
August 25 2012 14:10 GMT
#321
Someone needs to buy the movie rights for this mess...
Think about something like "the social network" but with Esports and NesTea ^^
excellent!
achan1058
Profile Joined February 2012
1091 Posts
August 25 2012 14:10 GMT
#322
On August 25 2012 23:08 FeyFey wrote:
Oh thanks for gathering the things together, glad to know esf knows what they are doing, but it is really sad for GOM. On the other hand without esf ... I remember what happened to goms bw broadcast. Guess we won't be seeing kespa players in HotS, doubt they get the license, but will be good for me. I will still be able to see WoL and the Carrier :p.

I doubt it, the carrier at least. Regardless of how things works out, Blizz have an interest in HotS.
floor exercise
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada5847 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-25 14:11:13
August 25 2012 14:10 GMT
#323
On August 25 2012 23:09 Crow! wrote:
Kespa decided to skip SC2 when it was still young and a potentially risky switch, instead letting GOM pick up the exclusive contract. IMO they should just accept that they are not and will never be the authority for this game, because someone else stepped up to the plate when they didn't years ago.

This is some wild revisionist history. A huge legal battle culminating in someone else getting exclusive broadcast rights is not "deciding to skip SC2"

Reading some of the things on this forum it's like you guys were on a different planet from 2010-2012.
Belisarius
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia6233 Posts
August 25 2012 14:12 GMT
#324
That's a shame. I agreed with their position originally, but this seems like a little too much.

They got an immediate response out of KeSPA and got a commitment to the next GSL. That was a win, and quite a big one. Personally, I think it should have ended there. GSL 6+ are quite some time away. I wouldn't even expect KeSPA to commit their players that far ahead.
aintz
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada5624 Posts
August 25 2012 14:14 GMT
#325
i think kespas response was reasonable enough. missing 1 gsl isnt even bad for its players, gives them more time to practise the game.
Femari
Profile Joined June 2011
United States2900 Posts
August 25 2012 14:14 GMT
#326
On August 25 2012 23:09 boag11 wrote:
All Kespa have to do to save OS2L is to allow Kespa players the option to participate in GSL, as well as an agreement with all involved that that option will not be taken away. Kespa should never of taken away the option for players to play in non Kespa affiliated leagues. Whether you believe ESF and or Kespa is in the wrong, it is hard to deny that all that needs to be done is for Kespa to allow all Kespa players the option to participate in other Tournaments. It should be up to the coaches to decide whether it is beneficial for a player to play in GSL qualifiers or not.

Pretty much this.

There is no reason not to give teams the ability to let their players go to qualifiers.
Mvp | BoxeR | MarineKing | MC | viOlet | Scarlett | Flash | Bisu | XellOs | Sea | Fantasy | By.Sun
Integra
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Sweden5626 Posts
August 25 2012 14:14 GMT
#327
On August 25 2012 23:10 floor exercise wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2012 23:09 Crow! wrote:
Kespa decided to skip SC2 when it was still young and a potentially risky switch, instead letting GOM pick up the exclusive contract. IMO they should just accept that they are not and will never be the authority for this game, because someone else stepped up to the plate when they didn't years ago.

This is some wild revisionist history. A huge legal battle culminating in someone else getting exclusive broadcast rights is not "deciding to skip SC2"

Reading some of the things on this forum it's like you guys were on a different planet from 2010-2012.

Different planet isn't too far from the truth considering how small the SC scene was before Starcraft II came out
"Dark Pleasure" | | I survived the Locust war of May 3, 2014
achan1058
Profile Joined February 2012
1091 Posts
August 25 2012 14:15 GMT
#328
On August 25 2012 23:02 JiPrime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2012 22:38 jinorazi wrote:
On August 25 2012 22:37 vandelayindustries wrote:
Has anyone considered that SC2 was doing fine before KeSPA decided to switch from BW to SC2 and that maybe it can continue doing fine independent of them if it chooses?


from what i hear bw scene is still bigger in korea thanks to ogn. for sc2 to actually grow, it needs ogn's help.
thats my understanding, i may be wrong.

If there's no other growth options for SC2 scene, then you're absolutely correct.
But there's still plenty of room to stretch in the foreign market.
I don't know why you people deem Korean market so important.
It's a nice bonus to have, sure, but not important enough to jeopardize what GSL, IPL, MLG, NASL, and others have built so far with current Korean talent pool, which is predominantly still part of ESF.
Koreans will come around when the foreigner scene grows beyond what KeSPA accomplished back in BW era.

On on this. I suspect Blizz might have a hand in a few things. They don't want either GOM nor KeSPA to have too much power. They also want to sell more HotS. Blizz would have benefitted immensely if everything panned out well.
DougJDempsey
Profile Joined April 2010
747 Posts
August 25 2012 14:15 GMT
#329
On August 25 2012 23:12 Belisarius wrote:
That's a shame. I agreed with their position originally, but this seems like a little too much.

They got an immediate response out of KeSPA and got a commitment to the next GSL. That was a win, and quite a big one. Personally, I think it should have ended there. GSL 6+ are quite some time away. I wouldn't even expect KeSPA to commit their players that far ahead.


its the principle of the matter... their original goal in pulling out of the OSL was to get kespa players in season 4. they said season 5, not 4, not onwards from 5 either..
Pzar
Profile Joined August 2011
New Zealand46 Posts
August 25 2012 14:16 GMT
#330
On August 25 2012 23:06 revy wrote:
To be honest when I heard about kespa players not playing GSL4 it made a bunch of sense to me, they're still playing two games, and they've only been playing SC2 for a few months.

Kespa hasn't been unreasonable so far in SC2, they are signing deals with tournaments, but they're making sure to do it in advance. Maybe kespa and GOM should've started talks earlier.


The problem is that they did it in a way that looked like the move that killed off Gom Classic.

From that point, it doesn't really matter what their intent was, or if it's just a miscommunication. It just matters that they clear it up.
floor exercise
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada5847 Posts
August 25 2012 14:16 GMT
#331
On August 25 2012 23:14 aintz wrote:
i think kespas response was reasonable enough. missing 1 gsl isnt even bad for its players, gives them more time to practise the game.

Their star players is like the main attraction. I don't see a problem at all with them not wanting them to compete in what is a direct competitor's league.

Maybe once they've established their own league like GSL has done for 2 years, there can be some beautiful MSL/OSL synergy among the leagues.

But if 'ESF' (are we still pretending Mr. Chae has nothing to do with it? Just like last time right?) and Kespa want to go their own ways for now so be it. What is the big deal?
Integra
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Sweden5626 Posts
August 25 2012 14:16 GMT
#332
On August 25 2012 23:12 Belisarius wrote:
That's a shame. I agreed with their position originally, but this seems like a little too much.

They got an immediate response out of KeSPA and got a commitment to the next GSL. That was a win, and quite a big one. Personally, I think it should have ended there. GSL 6+ are quite some time away. I wouldn't even expect KeSPA to commit their players that far ahead.

what are you talking about? They are still following what they first said; No player will attend until Kespa players are allowed to enter GSL, and Kespa still forbids them from entering GSL.
"Dark Pleasure" | | I survived the Locust war of May 3, 2014
Derrida
Profile Joined March 2011
2885 Posts
August 25 2012 14:19 GMT
#333
Sorry about the stupid question, but what authority does ESF have over players? Is it like a union of some sorts?
#1 Grubby Fan.
achan1058
Profile Joined February 2012
1091 Posts
August 25 2012 14:19 GMT
#334
On August 25 2012 23:19 Derrida wrote:
Sorry about the stupid question, but what authority does ESF have over players? Is it like a union of some sorts?

Yes. ESF is the player's union.
Pudge_172
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1378 Posts
August 25 2012 14:20 GMT
#335
Gom=good guys Kespa=bad guys
Diablo 3 Blog Me & My Mom http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=336890
BgSBendeR
Profile Joined July 2011
Canada170 Posts
August 25 2012 14:21 GMT
#336
I think the eSF guys are also being dicks. No one forced them to play in the OSL Prelims or take the seeds. They chose to do so on their own. Now that everything is scheduled, they decide to back out simply because KeSPA who told GOMTV in advance(Before prelims) that they won't be participating in upcoming GSL due to scheduling conflict. Had Kespa gone through the prelims then backed out, it would be different..
For every minute you are angry you lose sixty seconds of happiness.
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-25 14:24:39
August 25 2012 14:22 GMT
#337
On August 25 2012 23:15 achan1058 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2012 23:02 JiPrime wrote:
On August 25 2012 22:38 jinorazi wrote:
On August 25 2012 22:37 vandelayindustries wrote:
Has anyone considered that SC2 was doing fine before KeSPA decided to switch from BW to SC2 and that maybe it can continue doing fine independent of them if it chooses?


from what i hear bw scene is still bigger in korea thanks to ogn. for sc2 to actually grow, it needs ogn's help.
thats my understanding, i may be wrong.

If there's no other growth options for SC2 scene, then you're absolutely correct.
But there's still plenty of room to stretch in the foreign market.
I don't know why you people deem Korean market so important.
It's a nice bonus to have, sure, but not important enough to jeopardize what GSL, IPL, MLG, NASL, and others have built so far with current Korean talent pool, which is predominantly still part of ESF.
Koreans will come around when the foreigner scene grows beyond what KeSPA accomplished back in BW era.

On on this. I suspect Blizz might have a hand in a few things. They don't want either GOM nor KeSPA to have too much power. They also want to sell more HotS. Blizz would have benefitted immensely if everything panned out well.


Yeah because Blizzard wants it. Those Lawyers they hired for the IP rights case ended up working on their licensing bullshit for SC2.

On August 25 2012 23:19 achan1058 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2012 23:19 Derrida wrote:
Sorry about the stupid question, but what authority does ESF have over players? Is it like a union of some sorts?

Yes. ESF is the player's union.


Only for certain Korean teams that aren't apart of KeSPA.

Anyway, they need to do this so they don't get walked on.

Everything isn't as black and white as some guys think.
Weirdkid
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Singapore2431 Posts
August 25 2012 14:22 GMT
#338
On August 25 2012 23:19 Derrida wrote:
Sorry about the stupid question, but What authority does ESF have over players? Is it like a union of some sorts?


(Wiki)e-Sports Federation
"Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him yourself." - Proverbs 26:4
Derrida
Profile Joined March 2011
2885 Posts
August 25 2012 14:23 GMT
#339
On August 25 2012 23:19 achan1058 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2012 23:19 Derrida wrote:
Sorry about the stupid question, but what authority does ESF have over players? Is it like a union of some sorts?

Yes. ESF is the player's union.


Ok thanks. So the way I see it, ESF's second statement should have been "Ok, our players will attend your next tournament as well," instead of the "we hold our position" statement. I know they are basically the same, but discourse is important in negotiations.
#1 Grubby Fan.
Femari
Profile Joined June 2011
United States2900 Posts
August 25 2012 14:23 GMT
#340
On August 25 2012 23:21 BgSBendeR wrote:
I think the eSF guys are also being dicks. No one forced them to play in the OSL Prelims or take the seeds. They chose to do so on their own. Now that everything is scheduled, they decide to back out simply because KeSPA who told GOMTV in advance(Before prelims) that they won't be participating in upcoming GSL due to scheduling conflict. Had Kespa gone through the prelims then backed out, it would be different..

KeSPA shouldn't decide that anyway, the teams should.
Mvp | BoxeR | MarineKing | MC | viOlet | Scarlett | Flash | Bisu | XellOs | Sea | Fantasy | By.Sun
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