EPT"2012 GSL Season 4 & GSTL Season 3 부터는 다시 이전과 동일하게 여러 기록들을 다루도록 하겠습니다. 다루는 범위의 경우에서는 GSL에서의 경기 기록으로 다시 한정됩니다. 이는 이후 KeSPA 선수가 와도 마찬가지 입니다."
[Resolved] Kespa, GOM, ESF dispute - Page 15
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pPingu
Switzerland2892 Posts
"2012 GSL Season 4 & GSTL Season 3 부터는 다시 이전과 동일하게 여러 기록들을 다루도록 하겠습니다. 다루는 범위의 경우에서는 GSL에서의 경기 기록으로 다시 한정됩니다. 이는 이후 KeSPA 선수가 와도 마찬가지 입니다." | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50118 Posts
On August 25 2012 22:14 iKill wrote: Here's a few examples, by no means comprehensive. - Kicked players out of tournaments for typing things in ingame chat - Threatened players with exclusion from prominent tournaments for competing at unsanctioned events - Locked players in an all-inclusive union aimed at profit instead of player welfare - Discouraged players from standing up for themselves - Intervened when a player (NaDa) tried to play a broadcasted SC2 match (before he left BW) - Prevented players from competing at international events In short, KeSPA is a hypercontrolling nightmare of an organization that tries to give and take progamers' permission to play at events. jaedong free agency debacle, leta ZiZi Yo debacle, pp incidents, 2007 IEG thing (not the article I'm looking for but this explains the situation) | ||
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AgentChaos
United Kingdom4569 Posts
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Maloreon
United States911 Posts
If you are not a troll I feel really sorry for you. Your continous use of bad political analogies (that sound like they are straight from FOX news) really detracts from your paper thing arguments supporting a historcally abusive and corrupt, power-hungry organization. This is a fact about Kespa, not an opinion - empirical evidence has been provided by many in this thread despite being completely common knowledge that only a complete tool or massive troll would ignore. | ||
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Sethronu
United Kingdom450 Posts
On August 25 2012 22:14 iKill wrote: Here's a few examples, by no means comprehensive. - Kicked players out of tournaments for typing things in ingame chat - Threatened players with exclusion from prominent tournaments for competing at unsanctioned events - Locked players in an all-inclusive union aimed at profit instead of player welfare - Discouraged players from standing up for themselves - Intervened when a player (NaDa) tried to play a broadcasted SC2 match (before he left BW) - Prevented players from competing at international events In short, KeSPA is a hypercontrolling nightmare of an organization that tries to give and take progamers' permission to play at events. - Kicked players out of tournaments for typing things in ingame chat Reasonable rule which exists in all modern tournaments in at least some iteration of it. Nothing wrong with having a rule against irrelevant banter in the middle of a televised match. - Threatened players with exclusion from prominent tournaments for competing at unsanctioned events Specific examples? - Locked players in an all-inclusive union aimed at profit instead of player welfare Bullshit. KeSPA in itself is a non-profit organization; one of it's goals is to secure stable and sufficient funding for the teams. Player welfare is a very fickle thing - you might argue that individual players could have been better off, but as a whole, the system worked and provided security and stability for the players. There's a reason why no truly established players switched to SC2 at release, and even B-teamers who switched weren't numerous at all. - Discouraged players from standing up for themselves Like? That's just hogwash. - Intervened when a player (NaDa) tried to play a broadcasted SC2 match (before he left BW) Considering the situation Blizzard put them in at SC2 release, there's absolutely no surprise about that. Did happen, was it KeSPA's fault? Hardly. - Prevented players from competing at international events Such as? | ||
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GuitarBizarre
United Kingdom332 Posts
On August 25 2012 22:16 Twinkle Toes wrote: My issue was specifically against a user who registered in January 2012 and has 9 post claiming that "Kespa oppressed its progamers". WHatever your situation is if you're a lurker, or a mind-reader or broodwar historian. My issue is with HIM stating that. So unless he comes up with some plausible and convincing proof how he knows what he claims to know, then by all accounts I am right, THAT HIM BEING A 9 POST USER WHO REGISTERED IN JANUARY 2012 CLAIMING THAT KESPA OPPRESSED ITS PROGAMERS IS RIDICULOUS. Hell, if you can say anything in TL, I might as well confess that I am actually batman. See what I did there? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339466 "I'm not sure what other players think but Boxer hyung once emphasized that a players council [like a players union] should be formed. Honestly, there are many unsatisfactory things about Kespa. When we were only playing BW, Kespa would first initiate a map test but for this Starleague, the players were only given the final version of the maps the day before the opening." "While Boxer hyung was once our leader, right now there is no one else other than myself to express the players' grievances on their behalf. It would be good if Kespa can take into account the opinions of the players. Although corporations play a role in forming esports leagues, without the fans, these leagues would not exist. I hope Kespa can be more considerate of the position the players are in", Stork emphasized. "This season's BW maps are an example, if you look at the vast majority of the things Kespa has done, the players' opinions have not once been taken into account. It might not matter to players who earn a lot of money but as a whole, if the top players and middle ranking players don't do well at SC2, it is the end for them. So it would be good if there is an institution for the players. Although Kespa has engaged in communication with fans, there needs to be an avenue for communication between the players and Kespa." "Actually, when progamers compete, they are putting a lot on the line. There is no avenue for players to talk about these things. There is no place to give or receive feedback." | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
On August 25 2012 22:18 pPingu wrote: Can anyone translate this please? https://twitter.com/Yi_JiHwan/status/239349805636276224 "2012 GSL Season 4 & GSTL Season 3 부터는 다시 이전과 동일하게 여러 기록들을 다루도록 하겠습니다. 다루는 범위의 경우에서는 GSL에서의 경기 기록으로 다시 한정됩니다. 이는 이후 KeSPA 선수가 와도 마찬가지 입니다." i believe he is talking in regards to seeding process. "gsl 4 and gstl 3 will remain the same the way we handle records (i assume player/team records). gsl game records will be used to determine the process and it'll be the same when kespa players join." other koreans correct if i'm wrong | ||
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Skwid1g
United States953 Posts
On August 25 2012 22:25 Sethronu wrote: - Kicked players out of tournaments for typing things in ingame chat Reasonable rule which exists in all modern tournaments in at least some iteration of it. Nothing wrong with having a rule against irrelevant banter in the middle of a televised match. You realize that the cases we're talking about are people accidentally typing things and other similar situations, not irrelevant banter, right? | ||
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boag11
United States28 Posts
Yes I lurk on TL and other sites The only reason I even signed up for a TL acct was to do a liquibet, which I lost, as well as to use the TL teamspeak. Yes I've watched many BW OSL/MSL via VODS and or streams Yes I know of the history of Kespa and the sh*t they pulled on their players. And guess what, I dont post or have accounts on most of the communities I visit or view. And yes people like you who bash others just because they usually prefer to not always voice their opinions are one of the reasons some communities are sh*t. | ||
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JiPrime
Canada688 Posts
On August 25 2012 22:18 pPingu wrote: Can anyone translate this please? https://twitter.com/Yi_JiHwan/status/239349805636276224 "2012 GSL Season 4 & GSTL Season 3 부터는 다시 이전과 동일하게 여러 기록들을 다루도록 하겠습니다. 다루는 범위의 경우에서는 GSL에서의 경기 기록으로 다시 한정됩니다. 이는 이후 KeSPA 선수가 와도 마찬가지 입니다." I don't exactly know this guy and the context of his tweet, so I won't translate, but I can definitely guarantee you that it has nothing to do with this thread topic. Or ask someone else like OpticalShot or Milkis to translate  Edit: Jinorazi translated it right.  | ||
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tsiisus
Finland854 Posts
On August 25 2012 22:16 Twinkle Toes wrote: My issue was specifically against a user who registered in January 2012 and has 9 post claiming that "Kespa oppressed its progamers". WHatever your situation is if you're a lurker, or a mind-reader or broodwar historian. My issue is with HIM stating that. So unless he comes up with some plausible and convincing proof how he knows what he claims to know, then by all accounts I am right, THAT HIM BEING A 9 POST USER WHO REGISTERED IN JANUARY 2012 CLAIMING THAT KESPA OPPRESSED ITS PROGAMERS IS RIDICULOUS. Hell, if you can say anything in TL, I might as well confess that I am actually batman. See what I did there? Wake up. Any user's registration date and post count isn't proportionate to their knowledge about brood war. Why is this such a big deal to you anyway? And btw that batman analogy is ridiculous. | ||
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GuitarBizarre
United Kingdom332 Posts
On August 25 2012 22:26 Skwid1g wrote: You realize that the cases we're talking about are people accidentally typing things and other similar situations, not irrelevant banter, right? Typed ppp instead of pp? BAN HIM. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5540 Posts
On August 25 2012 22:14 iKill wrote: Here's a few examples, by no means comprehensive. - Kicked players out of tournaments for typing things in ingame chat Yeah, somebody came up with a flawed rule that was changed shortly after the incidents. - Threatened players with exclusion from prominent tournaments for competing at unsanctioned events Huh? - Locked players in an all-inclusive union aimed at profit instead of player welfare Players were not coerced to sign anything, KeSPA (aside from OGN, who is still not milking people like gomtv is) is not directly getting revenue from esport. It's a marketing venture for the involved sponsors (similar to F1 racing). - Discouraged players from standing up for themselves Probably true. Better than gom/blizzard killing the whole BW scene, though. Now that's working in the players' best interest, right? - Intervened when a player (NaDa) tried to play a broadcasted SC2 match (before he left BW) Intervened when ESL could not keep their promise of shutting down Korean restreams of the showmatch. KeSPA and blizzard were openly at war at the time and the showmatch was directly helping blizzard it terms of exposure. Despite that KeSPA allowed the match to take place, providing it wouldn't get restreamed in Korea (somehow gomtv has no problem immediately shutting down restreams). - Prevented players from competing at international events Such as? WCG, IEF, Stars War, ESWC, and so on seem pretty international to me. | ||
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Sethronu
United Kingdom450 Posts
On August 25 2012 22:26 Skwid1g wrote: You realize that the cases we're talking about are people accidentally typing things and other similar situations, not irrelevant banter, right? So if a tournament organizer has strict rules and sticks to them, they organization they work for is corrupt and evil to the core? Get your head out of your ass. | ||
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Daswollvieh
5553 Posts
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ACrow
Germany6583 Posts
On August 25 2012 22:26 boag11 wrote: I guess other people telling you how i got my information was not enough. Yes I lurk on TL and other sites The only reason I even signed up for a TL acct was to do a liquibet, which I lost, as well as to use the TL teamspeak. Yes I've watched many BW OSL/MSL via VODS and or streams Yes I know of the history of Kespa and the sh*t they pulled on their players. And guess what, I dont post or have accounts on most of the communities I visit or view. And yes people like you who bash others just because they usually prefer to not always voice their opinions are one of the reasons some communities are sh*t. Don't let guys like that discourage you from posting though, TL is overall a very reasonable and intelligent community imho. I think there might still be a way to solve this whole mess: Kespa could publicly state that, going from at least season 5 onwards, they won't put any restrictions on their players to participate in GSL, that way they could prove that pulling from season 4 is not to hurt GOM in the long run but is indeed due to those mysterious scheduling conflicts. Then ESF could participate in OSL, and we as viewers and fans would profit. I have my doubts though that Kespa would do that, because then they would get nailed if they indeed have a hidden agenda, like many suspect. But it would be a way out of this mess. | ||
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Shinobi1982
1605 Posts
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vandelayindustries
United States290 Posts
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
On August 25 2012 22:32 maybenexttime wrote: Yeah, somebody came up with a flawed rule that was changed shortly after the incidents. Huh? Players were not coerced to sign anything, KeSPA (aside from OGN, who is still not milking people like gomtv is) is not directly getting revenue from esport. It's a marketing venture for the involved sponsors (similar to F1 racing). Probably true. Better than gom/blizzard killing the whole BW scene, though. Now that's working in the players' best interest, right? Intervened when ESL could not keep their promise of shutting down Korean restreams of the showmatch. KeSPA and blizzard were openly at war at the time and the showmatch was directly helping blizzard it terms of exposure. Despite that KeSPA allowed the match to take place, providing it wouldn't get restreamed in Korea (somehow gomtv has no problem immediately shutting down restreams). Such as? WCG, IEF, Stars War, ESWC, and so on seem pretty international to me. thank you for posting that. people really shouldnt jump to conclusions and always remember there's always two sides to the same story and try to help this situation instead of escalating it. | ||
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boag11
United States28 Posts
On August 25 2012 22:35 ACrow wrote: Don't let guys like that discourage you from posting though, TL is overall a very reasonable and intelligent community imho. I think there might still be a way to solve this whole mess: Kespa could publicly state that, going from at least season 5 onwards, they won't put any restrictions on their players to participate in GSL, that way they could prove that pulling from season 4 is not to hurt GOM in the long run but is indeed due to those mysterious scheduling conflicts. Then ESF could participate in OSL, and we as viewers and fans would profit. I have my doubts though that Kespa would do that, because then they would get nailed if they indeed have a hidden agenda, like many suspect. But it would be a way out of this mess. Yes of course, I know most are unlike him, and what he says will have no influence on my post count besides the 3 or 4 I posted about him. | ||
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