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On August 25 2012 21:56 Aelonius wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 21:53 Twinkle Toes wrote:On August 25 2012 21:50 boag11 wrote:On August 25 2012 21:36 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 21:32 mrjpark wrote:On August 25 2012 19:30 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 19:18 TheAmazombie wrote:On August 25 2012 19:13 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 19:06 Zhalad wrote:
BrosephBrostar is either delusional or a troll, probably best just to ignore him... I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you. It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something. No, no one is forgetting that, but we see the rebellion on ESF's part as necessary and they must as well. They believe this is the right step. I doubt any of the players and people in the ESF are just doing this to thumb their noses. They believe this is what they MUST do to maintain the state of Esports. Due to KeSPA's history, they feel that if they give in, then KeSPA will maintain a monopoly. They went into the OSL on faith in the "Esport Vision" deal that was made earlier in the year, not to mention that KeSPA has implied that they would allow their players to play once they got more practice, and by the state of WCG most people feel that their players should be ready enough to at least try out for the qualifier. Necessary for what? Why would they want to maintain the state of esports? Isn't the objective to grow it? I'm still waiting for a real reason why kespa entering the SC2 scene is a bad thing. On August 25 2012 19:23 Disengaged wrote:On August 25 2012 18:32 BrosephBrostar wrote:
I'll say it again, there's absolutely no way a fan of SC2 should support the ESF here. What they're doing is absolutely retarded. If their goal really is to "carry Korean E-sports a step forward" isn't getting on TV pretty much the biggest step they can take right now? Am I really supposed to believe that the players are willing to pass up their chance at playing in a Starleage, something they've probably been dreaming of since they became progamers, for the "dignity" of some organization? Don't make me laugh. It's obvious that GOM has ESF on a leash and they're yanking the chain because they're afraid of becoming irrelevant. Anyone that supports this kind of bogus politics has no right to call himself a fan of "esports." And you think Kespa is in the right? Hell no. Kespa is the WORSE possible thing that can happen to SC2, should they force their way in and having shit done their way, whenever they want. ESF is in the right and there is no point in trying to dispute that. You supoort Kespa? Your no fan of Esports then. More baseless claims that kespa is some kind of boogeyman trying to ruin SC2 forever. If the NBA/NFL/MLB decided to just run without a player's union, do you think people would just sit down and take it? I mean, there's really nowhere else to go that gives a decent wage, so the owners technically have all the leverage. Without the unions, the players would be treated like crap. Due to lack of any real alternatives, that was the situation for Brood War. The players had to either put up with KeSPA's bullshit or find another career. Now that StarCraft has been globalized, this is no longer the case and the ESF has become the player's union for Korean SC2. Now, KeSPA's back in the picture trying to get the upper hand once more. In terms of pure business perspective, this is fine. Until you realize that once they're back in power, the players lose their voice once more and we've time traveled into the past where workers had no rights. All these players that are influential in the ESF? They're all ex-KeSPA B teamers. They've all been there and done that. They know what they're up against, and they're sure as hell not letting it permeate the Korean eSports scene again. Would KeSPA kill eSports? Probably not. But that has nothing to do with the fact that right now, the ESF is protecting not only their own careers, but the careers of their KeSPA friends; players from the BW teams that have no voice of their own. When unions hold strikes, it's obviously "stupid". From a pure business standpoint, they're obviously in the wrong. I mean, they have contracts with their employees and they should just grind it out. But sometimes, you need to fight for something, and the ESF thinks this is worth it. In the long run, the ESF running things is better for global eSports, while KeSPA may be able to run Korean eSports better in the short term. Your opinion seems to be one that completely disregards the players. Sure, you'll still get your games and they'll probably be good no matter who comes out on top. But obviously, the players are a bit more emotionally/financially involved in this than you are and are willing to fight for their futures. Do you seriously think ESF represents the players here? They're nothing more than GOM's lapdogs. The only thing they're protecting is the GSL. Do you seriously think ESF doesnt represents the players here? They're definitely not nothing more then GOM's lapdogs. The only thing they're protecting is themselves. See what I did there? Why is it so hard for you to believe that ESF is doing all this to protect themselves and their futures from Kespa. Who for the last 10 years have oppressed their own progamers A 9-post user who registered January 2012 commenting on how Kespa "oppressed their own progamers" wow A 175 post user who registered May 2012 complaining about other people's post count. Wow. See, worthless to put it that way, so don't?
Now I know why. Do you even have half the brain the understand what I said. If you registered this year, and have 9 posts, how can you know about broodwar, and that kespa oppressed their players. See now? You're welcome for the free education.
User was warned for this post
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On August 25 2012 22:02 Twinkle Toes wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 21:56 Aelonius wrote:On August 25 2012 21:53 Twinkle Toes wrote:On August 25 2012 21:50 boag11 wrote:On August 25 2012 21:36 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 21:32 mrjpark wrote:On August 25 2012 19:30 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 19:18 TheAmazombie wrote:On August 25 2012 19:13 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 19:06 Zhalad wrote:
BrosephBrostar is either delusional or a troll, probably best just to ignore him... I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you. It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something. No, no one is forgetting that, but we see the rebellion on ESF's part as necessary and they must as well. They believe this is the right step. I doubt any of the players and people in the ESF are just doing this to thumb their noses. They believe this is what they MUST do to maintain the state of Esports. Due to KeSPA's history, they feel that if they give in, then KeSPA will maintain a monopoly. They went into the OSL on faith in the "Esport Vision" deal that was made earlier in the year, not to mention that KeSPA has implied that they would allow their players to play once they got more practice, and by the state of WCG most people feel that their players should be ready enough to at least try out for the qualifier. Necessary for what? Why would they want to maintain the state of esports? Isn't the objective to grow it? I'm still waiting for a real reason why kespa entering the SC2 scene is a bad thing. On August 25 2012 19:23 Disengaged wrote:On August 25 2012 18:32 BrosephBrostar wrote:
I'll say it again, there's absolutely no way a fan of SC2 should support the ESF here. What they're doing is absolutely retarded. If their goal really is to "carry Korean E-sports a step forward" isn't getting on TV pretty much the biggest step they can take right now? Am I really supposed to believe that the players are willing to pass up their chance at playing in a Starleage, something they've probably been dreaming of since they became progamers, for the "dignity" of some organization? Don't make me laugh. It's obvious that GOM has ESF on a leash and they're yanking the chain because they're afraid of becoming irrelevant. Anyone that supports this kind of bogus politics has no right to call himself a fan of "esports." And you think Kespa is in the right? Hell no. Kespa is the WORSE possible thing that can happen to SC2, should they force their way in and having shit done their way, whenever they want. ESF is in the right and there is no point in trying to dispute that. You supoort Kespa? Your no fan of Esports then. More baseless claims that kespa is some kind of boogeyman trying to ruin SC2 forever. If the NBA/NFL/MLB decided to just run without a player's union, do you think people would just sit down and take it? I mean, there's really nowhere else to go that gives a decent wage, so the owners technically have all the leverage. Without the unions, the players would be treated like crap. Due to lack of any real alternatives, that was the situation for Brood War. The players had to either put up with KeSPA's bullshit or find another career. Now that StarCraft has been globalized, this is no longer the case and the ESF has become the player's union for Korean SC2. Now, KeSPA's back in the picture trying to get the upper hand once more. In terms of pure business perspective, this is fine. Until you realize that once they're back in power, the players lose their voice once more and we've time traveled into the past where workers had no rights. All these players that are influential in the ESF? They're all ex-KeSPA B teamers. They've all been there and done that. They know what they're up against, and they're sure as hell not letting it permeate the Korean eSports scene again. Would KeSPA kill eSports? Probably not. But that has nothing to do with the fact that right now, the ESF is protecting not only their own careers, but the careers of their KeSPA friends; players from the BW teams that have no voice of their own. When unions hold strikes, it's obviously "stupid". From a pure business standpoint, they're obviously in the wrong. I mean, they have contracts with their employees and they should just grind it out. But sometimes, you need to fight for something, and the ESF thinks this is worth it. In the long run, the ESF running things is better for global eSports, while KeSPA may be able to run Korean eSports better in the short term. Your opinion seems to be one that completely disregards the players. Sure, you'll still get your games and they'll probably be good no matter who comes out on top. But obviously, the players are a bit more emotionally/financially involved in this than you are and are willing to fight for their futures. Do you seriously think ESF represents the players here? They're nothing more than GOM's lapdogs. The only thing they're protecting is the GSL. Do you seriously think ESF doesnt represents the players here? They're definitely not nothing more then GOM's lapdogs. The only thing they're protecting is themselves. See what I did there? Why is it so hard for you to believe that ESF is doing all this to protect themselves and their futures from Kespa. Who for the last 10 years have oppressed their own progamers A 9-post user who registered January 2012 commenting on how Kespa "oppressed their own progamers" wow A 175 post user who registered May 2012 complaining about other people's post count. Wow. See, worthless to put it that way, so don't? Now I know why. Do you even have half the brain the understand what I said. If you registered this year, and have 9 posts, how can you know about broodwar, and that kespa oppressed their players. See now? You're welcome for the free education.
I registered last year, was browsing TL for a while before that, played BW way before that.
See how you can know about things without being registered and having posts?
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On August 25 2012 22:02 Twinkle Toes wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 21:56 Aelonius wrote:On August 25 2012 21:53 Twinkle Toes wrote:On August 25 2012 21:50 boag11 wrote:On August 25 2012 21:36 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 21:32 mrjpark wrote:On August 25 2012 19:30 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 19:18 TheAmazombie wrote:On August 25 2012 19:13 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 19:06 Zhalad wrote:
BrosephBrostar is either delusional or a troll, probably best just to ignore him... I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you. It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something. No, no one is forgetting that, but we see the rebellion on ESF's part as necessary and they must as well. They believe this is the right step. I doubt any of the players and people in the ESF are just doing this to thumb their noses. They believe this is what they MUST do to maintain the state of Esports. Due to KeSPA's history, they feel that if they give in, then KeSPA will maintain a monopoly. They went into the OSL on faith in the "Esport Vision" deal that was made earlier in the year, not to mention that KeSPA has implied that they would allow their players to play once they got more practice, and by the state of WCG most people feel that their players should be ready enough to at least try out for the qualifier. Necessary for what? Why would they want to maintain the state of esports? Isn't the objective to grow it? I'm still waiting for a real reason why kespa entering the SC2 scene is a bad thing. On August 25 2012 19:23 Disengaged wrote:On August 25 2012 18:32 BrosephBrostar wrote:
I'll say it again, there's absolutely no way a fan of SC2 should support the ESF here. What they're doing is absolutely retarded. If their goal really is to "carry Korean E-sports a step forward" isn't getting on TV pretty much the biggest step they can take right now? Am I really supposed to believe that the players are willing to pass up their chance at playing in a Starleage, something they've probably been dreaming of since they became progamers, for the "dignity" of some organization? Don't make me laugh. It's obvious that GOM has ESF on a leash and they're yanking the chain because they're afraid of becoming irrelevant. Anyone that supports this kind of bogus politics has no right to call himself a fan of "esports." And you think Kespa is in the right? Hell no. Kespa is the WORSE possible thing that can happen to SC2, should they force their way in and having shit done their way, whenever they want. ESF is in the right and there is no point in trying to dispute that. You supoort Kespa? Your no fan of Esports then. More baseless claims that kespa is some kind of boogeyman trying to ruin SC2 forever. If the NBA/NFL/MLB decided to just run without a player's union, do you think people would just sit down and take it? I mean, there's really nowhere else to go that gives a decent wage, so the owners technically have all the leverage. Without the unions, the players would be treated like crap. Due to lack of any real alternatives, that was the situation for Brood War. The players had to either put up with KeSPA's bullshit or find another career. Now that StarCraft has been globalized, this is no longer the case and the ESF has become the player's union for Korean SC2. Now, KeSPA's back in the picture trying to get the upper hand once more. In terms of pure business perspective, this is fine. Until you realize that once they're back in power, the players lose their voice once more and we've time traveled into the past where workers had no rights. All these players that are influential in the ESF? They're all ex-KeSPA B teamers. They've all been there and done that. They know what they're up against, and they're sure as hell not letting it permeate the Korean eSports scene again. Would KeSPA kill eSports? Probably not. But that has nothing to do with the fact that right now, the ESF is protecting not only their own careers, but the careers of their KeSPA friends; players from the BW teams that have no voice of their own. When unions hold strikes, it's obviously "stupid". From a pure business standpoint, they're obviously in the wrong. I mean, they have contracts with their employees and they should just grind it out. But sometimes, you need to fight for something, and the ESF thinks this is worth it. In the long run, the ESF running things is better for global eSports, while KeSPA may be able to run Korean eSports better in the short term. Your opinion seems to be one that completely disregards the players. Sure, you'll still get your games and they'll probably be good no matter who comes out on top. But obviously, the players are a bit more emotionally/financially involved in this than you are and are willing to fight for their futures. Do you seriously think ESF represents the players here? They're nothing more than GOM's lapdogs. The only thing they're protecting is the GSL. Do you seriously think ESF doesnt represents the players here? They're definitely not nothing more then GOM's lapdogs. The only thing they're protecting is themselves. See what I did there? Why is it so hard for you to believe that ESF is doing all this to protect themselves and their futures from Kespa. Who for the last 10 years have oppressed their own progamers A 9-post user who registered January 2012 commenting on how Kespa "oppressed their own progamers" wow A 175 post user who registered May 2012 complaining about other people's post count. Wow. See, worthless to put it that way, so don't? Now I know why. Do you even have half the brain the understand what I said. If you registered this year, and have 9 posts, how can you know about broodwar, and that kespa oppressed their players. See now? You're welcome for the free education.
He registered at that time... he wasn't birthed at that time... what failed logic is that.
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On August 25 2012 22:02 Twinkle Toes wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 21:56 Aelonius wrote:On August 25 2012 21:53 Twinkle Toes wrote:On August 25 2012 21:50 boag11 wrote:On August 25 2012 21:36 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 21:32 mrjpark wrote:On August 25 2012 19:30 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 19:18 TheAmazombie wrote:On August 25 2012 19:13 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 19:06 Zhalad wrote:
BrosephBrostar is either delusional or a troll, probably best just to ignore him... I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you. It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something. No, no one is forgetting that, but we see the rebellion on ESF's part as necessary and they must as well. They believe this is the right step. I doubt any of the players and people in the ESF are just doing this to thumb their noses. They believe this is what they MUST do to maintain the state of Esports. Due to KeSPA's history, they feel that if they give in, then KeSPA will maintain a monopoly. They went into the OSL on faith in the "Esport Vision" deal that was made earlier in the year, not to mention that KeSPA has implied that they would allow their players to play once they got more practice, and by the state of WCG most people feel that their players should be ready enough to at least try out for the qualifier. Necessary for what? Why would they want to maintain the state of esports? Isn't the objective to grow it? I'm still waiting for a real reason why kespa entering the SC2 scene is a bad thing. On August 25 2012 19:23 Disengaged wrote:On August 25 2012 18:32 BrosephBrostar wrote:
I'll say it again, there's absolutely no way a fan of SC2 should support the ESF here. What they're doing is absolutely retarded. If their goal really is to "carry Korean E-sports a step forward" isn't getting on TV pretty much the biggest step they can take right now? Am I really supposed to believe that the players are willing to pass up their chance at playing in a Starleage, something they've probably been dreaming of since they became progamers, for the "dignity" of some organization? Don't make me laugh. It's obvious that GOM has ESF on a leash and they're yanking the chain because they're afraid of becoming irrelevant. Anyone that supports this kind of bogus politics has no right to call himself a fan of "esports." And you think Kespa is in the right? Hell no. Kespa is the WORSE possible thing that can happen to SC2, should they force their way in and having shit done their way, whenever they want. ESF is in the right and there is no point in trying to dispute that. You supoort Kespa? Your no fan of Esports then. More baseless claims that kespa is some kind of boogeyman trying to ruin SC2 forever. If the NBA/NFL/MLB decided to just run without a player's union, do you think people would just sit down and take it? I mean, there's really nowhere else to go that gives a decent wage, so the owners technically have all the leverage. Without the unions, the players would be treated like crap. Due to lack of any real alternatives, that was the situation for Brood War. The players had to either put up with KeSPA's bullshit or find another career. Now that StarCraft has been globalized, this is no longer the case and the ESF has become the player's union for Korean SC2. Now, KeSPA's back in the picture trying to get the upper hand once more. In terms of pure business perspective, this is fine. Until you realize that once they're back in power, the players lose their voice once more and we've time traveled into the past where workers had no rights. All these players that are influential in the ESF? They're all ex-KeSPA B teamers. They've all been there and done that. They know what they're up against, and they're sure as hell not letting it permeate the Korean eSports scene again. Would KeSPA kill eSports? Probably not. But that has nothing to do with the fact that right now, the ESF is protecting not only their own careers, but the careers of their KeSPA friends; players from the BW teams that have no voice of their own. When unions hold strikes, it's obviously "stupid". From a pure business standpoint, they're obviously in the wrong. I mean, they have contracts with their employees and they should just grind it out. But sometimes, you need to fight for something, and the ESF thinks this is worth it. In the long run, the ESF running things is better for global eSports, while KeSPA may be able to run Korean eSports better in the short term. Your opinion seems to be one that completely disregards the players. Sure, you'll still get your games and they'll probably be good no matter who comes out on top. But obviously, the players are a bit more emotionally/financially involved in this than you are and are willing to fight for their futures. Do you seriously think ESF represents the players here? They're nothing more than GOM's lapdogs. The only thing they're protecting is the GSL. Do you seriously think ESF doesnt represents the players here? They're definitely not nothing more then GOM's lapdogs. The only thing they're protecting is themselves. See what I did there? Why is it so hard for you to believe that ESF is doing all this to protect themselves and their futures from Kespa. Who for the last 10 years have oppressed their own progamers A 9-post user who registered January 2012 commenting on how Kespa "oppressed their own progamers" wow A 175 post user who registered May 2012 complaining about other people's post count. Wow. See, worthless to put it that way, so don't? Now I know why. Do you even have half the brain the understand what I said. If you registered this year, and have 9 posts, how can you know about broodwar, and that kespa oppressed their players. See now? You're welcome for the free education.
cause you don't need a TL account to follow Progaming?. WOHHH i just blew your mind ?!
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On August 25 2012 22:02 Twinkle Toes wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 21:56 Aelonius wrote:On August 25 2012 21:53 Twinkle Toes wrote:On August 25 2012 21:50 boag11 wrote:On August 25 2012 21:36 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 21:32 mrjpark wrote:On August 25 2012 19:30 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 19:18 TheAmazombie wrote:On August 25 2012 19:13 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 19:06 Zhalad wrote:
BrosephBrostar is either delusional or a troll, probably best just to ignore him... I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you. It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something. No, no one is forgetting that, but we see the rebellion on ESF's part as necessary and they must as well. They believe this is the right step. I doubt any of the players and people in the ESF are just doing this to thumb their noses. They believe this is what they MUST do to maintain the state of Esports. Due to KeSPA's history, they feel that if they give in, then KeSPA will maintain a monopoly. They went into the OSL on faith in the "Esport Vision" deal that was made earlier in the year, not to mention that KeSPA has implied that they would allow their players to play once they got more practice, and by the state of WCG most people feel that their players should be ready enough to at least try out for the qualifier. Necessary for what? Why would they want to maintain the state of esports? Isn't the objective to grow it? I'm still waiting for a real reason why kespa entering the SC2 scene is a bad thing. On August 25 2012 19:23 Disengaged wrote:On August 25 2012 18:32 BrosephBrostar wrote:
I'll say it again, there's absolutely no way a fan of SC2 should support the ESF here. What they're doing is absolutely retarded. If their goal really is to "carry Korean E-sports a step forward" isn't getting on TV pretty much the biggest step they can take right now? Am I really supposed to believe that the players are willing to pass up their chance at playing in a Starleage, something they've probably been dreaming of since they became progamers, for the "dignity" of some organization? Don't make me laugh. It's obvious that GOM has ESF on a leash and they're yanking the chain because they're afraid of becoming irrelevant. Anyone that supports this kind of bogus politics has no right to call himself a fan of "esports." And you think Kespa is in the right? Hell no. Kespa is the WORSE possible thing that can happen to SC2, should they force their way in and having shit done their way, whenever they want. ESF is in the right and there is no point in trying to dispute that. You supoort Kespa? Your no fan of Esports then. More baseless claims that kespa is some kind of boogeyman trying to ruin SC2 forever. If the NBA/NFL/MLB decided to just run without a player's union, do you think people would just sit down and take it? I mean, there's really nowhere else to go that gives a decent wage, so the owners technically have all the leverage. Without the unions, the players would be treated like crap. Due to lack of any real alternatives, that was the situation for Brood War. The players had to either put up with KeSPA's bullshit or find another career. Now that StarCraft has been globalized, this is no longer the case and the ESF has become the player's union for Korean SC2. Now, KeSPA's back in the picture trying to get the upper hand once more. In terms of pure business perspective, this is fine. Until you realize that once they're back in power, the players lose their voice once more and we've time traveled into the past where workers had no rights. All these players that are influential in the ESF? They're all ex-KeSPA B teamers. They've all been there and done that. They know what they're up against, and they're sure as hell not letting it permeate the Korean eSports scene again. Would KeSPA kill eSports? Probably not. But that has nothing to do with the fact that right now, the ESF is protecting not only their own careers, but the careers of their KeSPA friends; players from the BW teams that have no voice of their own. When unions hold strikes, it's obviously "stupid". From a pure business standpoint, they're obviously in the wrong. I mean, they have contracts with their employees and they should just grind it out. But sometimes, you need to fight for something, and the ESF thinks this is worth it. In the long run, the ESF running things is better for global eSports, while KeSPA may be able to run Korean eSports better in the short term. Your opinion seems to be one that completely disregards the players. Sure, you'll still get your games and they'll probably be good no matter who comes out on top. But obviously, the players are a bit more emotionally/financially involved in this than you are and are willing to fight for their futures. Do you seriously think ESF represents the players here? They're nothing more than GOM's lapdogs. The only thing they're protecting is the GSL. Do you seriously think ESF doesnt represents the players here? They're definitely not nothing more then GOM's lapdogs. The only thing they're protecting is themselves. See what I did there? Why is it so hard for you to believe that ESF is doing all this to protect themselves and their futures from Kespa. Who for the last 10 years have oppressed their own progamers A 9-post user who registered January 2012 commenting on how Kespa "oppressed their own progamers" wow A 175 post user who registered May 2012 complaining about other people's post count. Wow. See, worthless to put it that way, so don't? Now I know why. Do you even have half the brain the understand what I said. If you registered this year, and have 9 posts, how can you know about broodwar, and that kespa oppressed their players. See now? You're welcome for the free education.
Did you know you can use google to find stuff that happened in the past???! It's amazing isn't it, that way one could even learn stuff he hasn't experienced himself. Whooooaaaahhh.
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On August 25 2012 22:02 Twinkle Toes wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 21:56 Aelonius wrote:On August 25 2012 21:53 Twinkle Toes wrote:On August 25 2012 21:50 boag11 wrote:On August 25 2012 21:36 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 21:32 mrjpark wrote:On August 25 2012 19:30 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 19:18 TheAmazombie wrote:On August 25 2012 19:13 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 19:06 Zhalad wrote:
BrosephBrostar is either delusional or a troll, probably best just to ignore him... I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you. It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something. No, no one is forgetting that, but we see the rebellion on ESF's part as necessary and they must as well. They believe this is the right step. I doubt any of the players and people in the ESF are just doing this to thumb their noses. They believe this is what they MUST do to maintain the state of Esports. Due to KeSPA's history, they feel that if they give in, then KeSPA will maintain a monopoly. They went into the OSL on faith in the "Esport Vision" deal that was made earlier in the year, not to mention that KeSPA has implied that they would allow their players to play once they got more practice, and by the state of WCG most people feel that their players should be ready enough to at least try out for the qualifier. Necessary for what? Why would they want to maintain the state of esports? Isn't the objective to grow it? I'm still waiting for a real reason why kespa entering the SC2 scene is a bad thing. On August 25 2012 19:23 Disengaged wrote:On August 25 2012 18:32 BrosephBrostar wrote:
I'll say it again, there's absolutely no way a fan of SC2 should support the ESF here. What they're doing is absolutely retarded. If their goal really is to "carry Korean E-sports a step forward" isn't getting on TV pretty much the biggest step they can take right now? Am I really supposed to believe that the players are willing to pass up their chance at playing in a Starleage, something they've probably been dreaming of since they became progamers, for the "dignity" of some organization? Don't make me laugh. It's obvious that GOM has ESF on a leash and they're yanking the chain because they're afraid of becoming irrelevant. Anyone that supports this kind of bogus politics has no right to call himself a fan of "esports." And you think Kespa is in the right? Hell no. Kespa is the WORSE possible thing that can happen to SC2, should they force their way in and having shit done their way, whenever they want. ESF is in the right and there is no point in trying to dispute that. You supoort Kespa? Your no fan of Esports then. More baseless claims that kespa is some kind of boogeyman trying to ruin SC2 forever. If the NBA/NFL/MLB decided to just run without a player's union, do you think people would just sit down and take it? I mean, there's really nowhere else to go that gives a decent wage, so the owners technically have all the leverage. Without the unions, the players would be treated like crap. Due to lack of any real alternatives, that was the situation for Brood War. The players had to either put up with KeSPA's bullshit or find another career. Now that StarCraft has been globalized, this is no longer the case and the ESF has become the player's union for Korean SC2. Now, KeSPA's back in the picture trying to get the upper hand once more. In terms of pure business perspective, this is fine. Until you realize that once they're back in power, the players lose their voice once more and we've time traveled into the past where workers had no rights. All these players that are influential in the ESF? They're all ex-KeSPA B teamers. They've all been there and done that. They know what they're up against, and they're sure as hell not letting it permeate the Korean eSports scene again. Would KeSPA kill eSports? Probably not. But that has nothing to do with the fact that right now, the ESF is protecting not only their own careers, but the careers of their KeSPA friends; players from the BW teams that have no voice of their own. When unions hold strikes, it's obviously "stupid". From a pure business standpoint, they're obviously in the wrong. I mean, they have contracts with their employees and they should just grind it out. But sometimes, you need to fight for something, and the ESF thinks this is worth it. In the long run, the ESF running things is better for global eSports, while KeSPA may be able to run Korean eSports better in the short term. Your opinion seems to be one that completely disregards the players. Sure, you'll still get your games and they'll probably be good no matter who comes out on top. But obviously, the players are a bit more emotionally/financially involved in this than you are and are willing to fight for their futures. Do you seriously think ESF represents the players here? They're nothing more than GOM's lapdogs. The only thing they're protecting is the GSL. Do you seriously think ESF doesnt represents the players here? They're definitely not nothing more then GOM's lapdogs. The only thing they're protecting is themselves. See what I did there? Why is it so hard for you to believe that ESF is doing all this to protect themselves and their futures from Kespa. Who for the last 10 years have oppressed their own progamers A 9-post user who registered January 2012 commenting on how Kespa "oppressed their own progamers" wow A 175 post user who registered May 2012 complaining about other people's post count. Wow. See, worthless to put it that way, so don't? Now I know why. Do you even have half the brain the understand what I said. If you registered this year, and have 9 posts, how can you know about broodwar, and that kespa oppressed their players. See now? You're welcome for the free education.
By being a lurker? By reading up on BW?
Bashing people based on post count is stupid. You can keep this crap you call "education".
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On August 25 2012 22:03 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 22:02 Twinkle Toes wrote:On August 25 2012 21:56 Aelonius wrote:On August 25 2012 21:53 Twinkle Toes wrote:On August 25 2012 21:50 boag11 wrote:On August 25 2012 21:36 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 21:32 mrjpark wrote:On August 25 2012 19:30 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 19:18 TheAmazombie wrote:On August 25 2012 19:13 BrosephBrostar wrote:
[quote]
I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you.
It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something. No, no one is forgetting that, but we see the rebellion on ESF's part as necessary and they must as well. They believe this is the right step. I doubt any of the players and people in the ESF are just doing this to thumb their noses. They believe this is what they MUST do to maintain the state of Esports. Due to KeSPA's history, they feel that if they give in, then KeSPA will maintain a monopoly. They went into the OSL on faith in the "Esport Vision" deal that was made earlier in the year, not to mention that KeSPA has implied that they would allow their players to play once they got more practice, and by the state of WCG most people feel that their players should be ready enough to at least try out for the qualifier. Necessary for what? Why would they want to maintain the state of esports? Isn't the objective to grow it? I'm still waiting for a real reason why kespa entering the SC2 scene is a bad thing. On August 25 2012 19:23 Disengaged wrote:On August 25 2012 18:32 BrosephBrostar wrote:
I'll say it again, there's absolutely no way a fan of SC2 should support the ESF here. What they're doing is absolutely retarded. If their goal really is to "carry Korean E-sports a step forward" isn't getting on TV pretty much the biggest step they can take right now? Am I really supposed to believe that the players are willing to pass up their chance at playing in a Starleage, something they've probably been dreaming of since they became progamers, for the "dignity" of some organization? Don't make me laugh. It's obvious that GOM has ESF on a leash and they're yanking the chain because they're afraid of becoming irrelevant. Anyone that supports this kind of bogus politics has no right to call himself a fan of "esports." And you think Kespa is in the right? Hell no. Kespa is the WORSE possible thing that can happen to SC2, should they force their way in and having shit done their way, whenever they want. ESF is in the right and there is no point in trying to dispute that. You supoort Kespa? Your no fan of Esports then. More baseless claims that kespa is some kind of boogeyman trying to ruin SC2 forever. If the NBA/NFL/MLB decided to just run without a player's union, do you think people would just sit down and take it? I mean, there's really nowhere else to go that gives a decent wage, so the owners technically have all the leverage. Without the unions, the players would be treated like crap. Due to lack of any real alternatives, that was the situation for Brood War. The players had to either put up with KeSPA's bullshit or find another career. Now that StarCraft has been globalized, this is no longer the case and the ESF has become the player's union for Korean SC2. Now, KeSPA's back in the picture trying to get the upper hand once more. In terms of pure business perspective, this is fine. Until you realize that once they're back in power, the players lose their voice once more and we've time traveled into the past where workers had no rights. All these players that are influential in the ESF? They're all ex-KeSPA B teamers. They've all been there and done that. They know what they're up against, and they're sure as hell not letting it permeate the Korean eSports scene again. Would KeSPA kill eSports? Probably not. But that has nothing to do with the fact that right now, the ESF is protecting not only their own careers, but the careers of their KeSPA friends; players from the BW teams that have no voice of their own. When unions hold strikes, it's obviously "stupid". From a pure business standpoint, they're obviously in the wrong. I mean, they have contracts with their employees and they should just grind it out. But sometimes, you need to fight for something, and the ESF thinks this is worth it. In the long run, the ESF running things is better for global eSports, while KeSPA may be able to run Korean eSports better in the short term. Your opinion seems to be one that completely disregards the players. Sure, you'll still get your games and they'll probably be good no matter who comes out on top. But obviously, the players are a bit more emotionally/financially involved in this than you are and are willing to fight for their futures. Do you seriously think ESF represents the players here? They're nothing more than GOM's lapdogs. The only thing they're protecting is the GSL. Do you seriously think ESF doesnt represents the players here? They're definitely not nothing more then GOM's lapdogs. The only thing they're protecting is themselves. See what I did there? Why is it so hard for you to believe that ESF is doing all this to protect themselves and their futures from Kespa. Who for the last 10 years have oppressed their own progamers A 9-post user who registered January 2012 commenting on how Kespa "oppressed their own progamers" wow A 175 post user who registered May 2012 complaining about other people's post count. Wow. See, worthless to put it that way, so don't? Now I know why. Do you even have half the brain the understand what I said. If you registered this year, and have 9 posts, how can you know about broodwar, and that kespa oppressed their players. See now? You're welcome for the free education. I registered last year, was browsing TL for a while before that, played BW way before that. See how you can know about things without being registered and having posts?
lol this is not about you lololol. You playing broodwar forever has nothing to do with him and has nothing to do with his knowing that "kespa oppresses its player". I really should charge you for getting free lessons on reading comprehension and thinking from me.
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I'm still waiting for someone to come up with a comprehensive list of 'atrocities' KeSPA committed, or how they could and should have served the 'international scene better'. Keep seeing people mention these things, still have no idea about either of these having been following BW since Boxer bunker rushed Yellow, though.
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you guys are making me wanna troll people with my 2003 account with 2 posts XD
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On August 25 2012 22:04 ACrow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 22:02 Twinkle Toes wrote:On August 25 2012 21:56 Aelonius wrote:On August 25 2012 21:53 Twinkle Toes wrote:On August 25 2012 21:50 boag11 wrote:On August 25 2012 21:36 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 21:32 mrjpark wrote:On August 25 2012 19:30 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 19:18 TheAmazombie wrote:On August 25 2012 19:13 BrosephBrostar wrote:
[quote]
I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you.
It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something. No, no one is forgetting that, but we see the rebellion on ESF's part as necessary and they must as well. They believe this is the right step. I doubt any of the players and people in the ESF are just doing this to thumb their noses. They believe this is what they MUST do to maintain the state of Esports. Due to KeSPA's history, they feel that if they give in, then KeSPA will maintain a monopoly. They went into the OSL on faith in the "Esport Vision" deal that was made earlier in the year, not to mention that KeSPA has implied that they would allow their players to play once they got more practice, and by the state of WCG most people feel that their players should be ready enough to at least try out for the qualifier. Necessary for what? Why would they want to maintain the state of esports? Isn't the objective to grow it? I'm still waiting for a real reason why kespa entering the SC2 scene is a bad thing. On August 25 2012 19:23 Disengaged wrote:On August 25 2012 18:32 BrosephBrostar wrote:
I'll say it again, there's absolutely no way a fan of SC2 should support the ESF here. What they're doing is absolutely retarded. If their goal really is to "carry Korean E-sports a step forward" isn't getting on TV pretty much the biggest step they can take right now? Am I really supposed to believe that the players are willing to pass up their chance at playing in a Starleage, something they've probably been dreaming of since they became progamers, for the "dignity" of some organization? Don't make me laugh. It's obvious that GOM has ESF on a leash and they're yanking the chain because they're afraid of becoming irrelevant. Anyone that supports this kind of bogus politics has no right to call himself a fan of "esports." And you think Kespa is in the right? Hell no. Kespa is the WORSE possible thing that can happen to SC2, should they force their way in and having shit done their way, whenever they want. ESF is in the right and there is no point in trying to dispute that. You supoort Kespa? Your no fan of Esports then. More baseless claims that kespa is some kind of boogeyman trying to ruin SC2 forever. If the NBA/NFL/MLB decided to just run without a player's union, do you think people would just sit down and take it? I mean, there's really nowhere else to go that gives a decent wage, so the owners technically have all the leverage. Without the unions, the players would be treated like crap. Due to lack of any real alternatives, that was the situation for Brood War. The players had to either put up with KeSPA's bullshit or find another career. Now that StarCraft has been globalized, this is no longer the case and the ESF has become the player's union for Korean SC2. Now, KeSPA's back in the picture trying to get the upper hand once more. In terms of pure business perspective, this is fine. Until you realize that once they're back in power, the players lose their voice once more and we've time traveled into the past where workers had no rights. All these players that are influential in the ESF? They're all ex-KeSPA B teamers. They've all been there and done that. They know what they're up against, and they're sure as hell not letting it permeate the Korean eSports scene again. Would KeSPA kill eSports? Probably not. But that has nothing to do with the fact that right now, the ESF is protecting not only their own careers, but the careers of their KeSPA friends; players from the BW teams that have no voice of their own. When unions hold strikes, it's obviously "stupid". From a pure business standpoint, they're obviously in the wrong. I mean, they have contracts with their employees and they should just grind it out. But sometimes, you need to fight for something, and the ESF thinks this is worth it. In the long run, the ESF running things is better for global eSports, while KeSPA may be able to run Korean eSports better in the short term. Your opinion seems to be one that completely disregards the players. Sure, you'll still get your games and they'll probably be good no matter who comes out on top. But obviously, the players are a bit more emotionally/financially involved in this than you are and are willing to fight for their futures. Do you seriously think ESF represents the players here? They're nothing more than GOM's lapdogs. The only thing they're protecting is the GSL. Do you seriously think ESF doesnt represents the players here? They're definitely not nothing more then GOM's lapdogs. The only thing they're protecting is themselves. See what I did there? Why is it so hard for you to believe that ESF is doing all this to protect themselves and their futures from Kespa. Who for the last 10 years have oppressed their own progamers A 9-post user who registered January 2012 commenting on how Kespa "oppressed their own progamers" wow A 175 post user who registered May 2012 complaining about other people's post count. Wow. See, worthless to put it that way, so don't? Now I know why. Do you even have half the brain the understand what I said. If you registered this year, and have 9 posts, how can you know about broodwar, and that kespa oppressed their players. See now? You're welcome for the free education. Did you know you can use google to find stuff that happened in the past???! It's amazing isn't it, that way one could even learn stuff he hasn't experienced himself. Whooooaaaahhh.
Wow the clowns are out in full force today. Please teach me how to use google to know that "Kespa oppressed its players". And what are you all, his attorney and spokesman or something. Let him defend himself because you are only hurting his cause.
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Glad that the ESF have stuck to their guns and re-iterated their stance. Them winning here is the only thing that will be good for the scene long term.
I hope they see it through to the end, even if it does cripple the OSL. They absolutely must not give in now, else GSL, GomTV, and probably the Federation itself will be irreperably damaged.
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On August 25 2012 22:06 Sethronu wrote:
I'm still waiting for someone to come up with a comprehensive list of 'atrocities' KeSPA committed, or how they could and should have served the 'international scene better'. Keep seeing people mention these things, still have no idea about either of these having been following BW since Boxer bunker rushed Yellow, though.
there has been bad moves(other wise there wouldnt be this hate towards kespa in first place) by kespa but overblown just like how jessica's drama get overblown and that legacy lives on till today and never die. i like to think there's always two sides to the story but majority of people like to focus on one thing most of the time.
its just the way it is, as tupac said.
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On August 25 2012 22:08 Twinkle Toes wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 22:04 ACrow wrote:On August 25 2012 22:02 Twinkle Toes wrote:On August 25 2012 21:56 Aelonius wrote:On August 25 2012 21:53 Twinkle Toes wrote:On August 25 2012 21:50 boag11 wrote:On August 25 2012 21:36 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 21:32 mrjpark wrote:On August 25 2012 19:30 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 19:18 TheAmazombie wrote:
[quote]
No, no one is forgetting that, but we see the rebellion on ESF's part as necessary and they must as well. They believe this is the right step. I doubt any of the players and people in the ESF are just doing this to thumb their noses. They believe this is what they MUST do to maintain the state of Esports. Due to KeSPA's history, they feel that if they give in, then KeSPA will maintain a monopoly. They went into the OSL on faith in the "Esport Vision" deal that was made earlier in the year, not to mention that KeSPA has implied that they would allow their players to play once they got more practice, and by the state of WCG most people feel that their players should be ready enough to at least try out for the qualifier. Necessary for what? Why would they want to maintain the state of esports? Isn't the objective to grow it? I'm still waiting for a real reason why kespa entering the SC2 scene is a bad thing. On August 25 2012 19:23 Disengaged wrote:
[quote]
And you think Kespa is in the right? Hell no. Kespa is the WORSE possible thing that can happen to SC2, should they force their way in and having shit done their way, whenever they want.
ESF is in the right and there is no point in trying to dispute that.
You supoort Kespa? Your no fan of Esports then.
More baseless claims that kespa is some kind of boogeyman trying to ruin SC2 forever. If the NBA/NFL/MLB decided to just run without a player's union, do you think people would just sit down and take it? I mean, there's really nowhere else to go that gives a decent wage, so the owners technically have all the leverage. Without the unions, the players would be treated like crap. Due to lack of any real alternatives, that was the situation for Brood War. The players had to either put up with KeSPA's bullshit or find another career. Now that StarCraft has been globalized, this is no longer the case and the ESF has become the player's union for Korean SC2. Now, KeSPA's back in the picture trying to get the upper hand once more. In terms of pure business perspective, this is fine. Until you realize that once they're back in power, the players lose their voice once more and we've time traveled into the past where workers had no rights. All these players that are influential in the ESF? They're all ex-KeSPA B teamers. They've all been there and done that. They know what they're up against, and they're sure as hell not letting it permeate the Korean eSports scene again. Would KeSPA kill eSports? Probably not. But that has nothing to do with the fact that right now, the ESF is protecting not only their own careers, but the careers of their KeSPA friends; players from the BW teams that have no voice of their own. When unions hold strikes, it's obviously "stupid". From a pure business standpoint, they're obviously in the wrong. I mean, they have contracts with their employees and they should just grind it out. But sometimes, you need to fight for something, and the ESF thinks this is worth it. In the long run, the ESF running things is better for global eSports, while KeSPA may be able to run Korean eSports better in the short term. Your opinion seems to be one that completely disregards the players. Sure, you'll still get your games and they'll probably be good no matter who comes out on top. But obviously, the players are a bit more emotionally/financially involved in this than you are and are willing to fight for their futures. Do you seriously think ESF represents the players here? They're nothing more than GOM's lapdogs. The only thing they're protecting is the GSL. Do you seriously think ESF doesnt represents the players here? They're definitely not nothing more then GOM's lapdogs. The only thing they're protecting is themselves. See what I did there? Why is it so hard for you to believe that ESF is doing all this to protect themselves and their futures from Kespa. Who for the last 10 years have oppressed their own progamers A 9-post user who registered January 2012 commenting on how Kespa "oppressed their own progamers" wow A 175 post user who registered May 2012 complaining about other people's post count. Wow. See, worthless to put it that way, so don't? Now I know why. Do you even have half the brain the understand what I said. If you registered this year, and have 9 posts, how can you know about broodwar, and that kespa oppressed their players. See now? You're welcome for the free education. Did you know you can use google to find stuff that happened in the past???! It's amazing isn't it, that way one could even learn stuff he hasn't experienced himself. Whooooaaaahhh. Wow the clowns are out in full force today. Please teach me how to use google to know that "Kespa oppressed its players". And what are you all, his attorney and spokesman or something. Let him defend himself because you are only hurting his cause.
If you had any reading comprehension whatsoever you could read that I didn't say anything about Kespa in the post you quoted, but about the stupid and arrogant way you argue and having the balls to call yourself educating us.
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On August 25 2012 22:08 Twinkle Toes wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 22:04 ACrow wrote:On August 25 2012 22:02 Twinkle Toes wrote:On August 25 2012 21:56 Aelonius wrote:On August 25 2012 21:53 Twinkle Toes wrote:On August 25 2012 21:50 boag11 wrote:On August 25 2012 21:36 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 21:32 mrjpark wrote:On August 25 2012 19:30 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 19:18 TheAmazombie wrote:
[quote]
No, no one is forgetting that, but we see the rebellion on ESF's part as necessary and they must as well. They believe this is the right step. I doubt any of the players and people in the ESF are just doing this to thumb their noses. They believe this is what they MUST do to maintain the state of Esports. Due to KeSPA's history, they feel that if they give in, then KeSPA will maintain a monopoly. They went into the OSL on faith in the "Esport Vision" deal that was made earlier in the year, not to mention that KeSPA has implied that they would allow their players to play once they got more practice, and by the state of WCG most people feel that their players should be ready enough to at least try out for the qualifier. Necessary for what? Why would they want to maintain the state of esports? Isn't the objective to grow it? I'm still waiting for a real reason why kespa entering the SC2 scene is a bad thing. On August 25 2012 19:23 Disengaged wrote:
[quote]
And you think Kespa is in the right? Hell no. Kespa is the WORSE possible thing that can happen to SC2, should they force their way in and having shit done their way, whenever they want.
ESF is in the right and there is no point in trying to dispute that.
You supoort Kespa? Your no fan of Esports then.
More baseless claims that kespa is some kind of boogeyman trying to ruin SC2 forever. If the NBA/NFL/MLB decided to just run without a player's union, do you think people would just sit down and take it? I mean, there's really nowhere else to go that gives a decent wage, so the owners technically have all the leverage. Without the unions, the players would be treated like crap. Due to lack of any real alternatives, that was the situation for Brood War. The players had to either put up with KeSPA's bullshit or find another career. Now that StarCraft has been globalized, this is no longer the case and the ESF has become the player's union for Korean SC2. Now, KeSPA's back in the picture trying to get the upper hand once more. In terms of pure business perspective, this is fine. Until you realize that once they're back in power, the players lose their voice once more and we've time traveled into the past where workers had no rights. All these players that are influential in the ESF? They're all ex-KeSPA B teamers. They've all been there and done that. They know what they're up against, and they're sure as hell not letting it permeate the Korean eSports scene again. Would KeSPA kill eSports? Probably not. But that has nothing to do with the fact that right now, the ESF is protecting not only their own careers, but the careers of their KeSPA friends; players from the BW teams that have no voice of their own. When unions hold strikes, it's obviously "stupid". From a pure business standpoint, they're obviously in the wrong. I mean, they have contracts with their employees and they should just grind it out. But sometimes, you need to fight for something, and the ESF thinks this is worth it. In the long run, the ESF running things is better for global eSports, while KeSPA may be able to run Korean eSports better in the short term. Your opinion seems to be one that completely disregards the players. Sure, you'll still get your games and they'll probably be good no matter who comes out on top. But obviously, the players are a bit more emotionally/financially involved in this than you are and are willing to fight for their futures. Do you seriously think ESF represents the players here? They're nothing more than GOM's lapdogs. The only thing they're protecting is the GSL. Do you seriously think ESF doesnt represents the players here? They're definitely not nothing more then GOM's lapdogs. The only thing they're protecting is themselves. See what I did there? Why is it so hard for you to believe that ESF is doing all this to protect themselves and their futures from Kespa. Who for the last 10 years have oppressed their own progamers A 9-post user who registered January 2012 commenting on how Kespa "oppressed their own progamers" wow A 175 post user who registered May 2012 complaining about other people's post count. Wow. See, worthless to put it that way, so don't? Now I know why. Do you even have half the brain the understand what I said. If you registered this year, and have 9 posts, how can you know about broodwar, and that kespa oppressed their players. See now? You're welcome for the free education. Did you know you can use google to find stuff that happened in the past???! It's amazing isn't it, that way one could even learn stuff he hasn't experienced himself. Whooooaaaahhh. Wow the clowns are out in full force today. Please teach me how to use google to know that "Kespa oppressed its players". And what are you all, his attorney and spokesman or something. Let him defend himself because you are only hurting his cause.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=99641 didn't take much effort to find that
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On August 25 2012 22:06 Sethronu wrote:
I'm still waiting for someone to come up with a comprehensive list of 'atrocities' KeSPA committed, or how they could and should have served the 'international scene better'. Keep seeing people mention these things, still have no idea about either of these having been following BW since Boxer bunker rushed Yellow, though.
I would gladly share my sources but they're all in Korean, and I'm not sure whether 엔하 folks would approve. 
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On August 25 2012 22:06 Sethronu wrote:
I'm still waiting for someone to come up with a comprehensive list of 'atrocities' KeSPA committed, or how they could and should have served the 'international scene better'. Keep seeing people mention these things, still have no idea about either of these having been following BW since Boxer bunker rushed Yellow, though.
Here's a few examples, by no means comprehensive.
- Kicked players out of tournaments for typing things in ingame chat
- Threatened players with exclusion from prominent tournaments for competing at unsanctioned events
- Locked players in an all-inclusive union aimed at profit instead of player welfare
- Discouraged players from standing up for themselves
- Intervened when a player (NaDa) tried to play a broadcasted SC2 match (before he left BW)
- Prevented players from competing at international events
In short, KeSPA is a hypercontrolling nightmare of an organization that tries to give and take progamers' permission to play at events.
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On August 25 2012 22:10 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 22:06 Sethronu wrote:
I'm still waiting for someone to come up with a comprehensive list of 'atrocities' KeSPA committed, or how they could and should have served the 'international scene better'. Keep seeing people mention these things, still have no idea about either of these having been following BW since Boxer bunker rushed Yellow, though. i think there has been bad moves(other wise there wouldnt be this hate towards kespa in first place) by kespa but overblown just like how jessica's drama get overblown and that legacy lives on till today and never die. i like to think there's always two sides to the story but majority of people like to focus on one thing most of the time. its just the way it is, as tupac said.
Oh, of course there's been some bad moves and poor decisions, nobody is denying that - same can be said about GomTV, MLG, NASL, IPL, Google, or Tesco though. I'm just curious what are these 'really evil things' that KeSPA supposedly done over which everyone hates them and 'can't trust them' now. I just don't get where did hundreds of people with so much hate towards KeSPA you'd think they burned their houses down or something come from.
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On August 25 2012 22:08 Twinkle Toes wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 22:04 ACrow wrote:On August 25 2012 22:02 Twinkle Toes wrote:On August 25 2012 21:56 Aelonius wrote:On August 25 2012 21:53 Twinkle Toes wrote:On August 25 2012 21:50 boag11 wrote:On August 25 2012 21:36 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 21:32 mrjpark wrote:On August 25 2012 19:30 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 19:18 TheAmazombie wrote:
[quote]
No, no one is forgetting that, but we see the rebellion on ESF's part as necessary and they must as well. They believe this is the right step. I doubt any of the players and people in the ESF are just doing this to thumb their noses. They believe this is what they MUST do to maintain the state of Esports. Due to KeSPA's history, they feel that if they give in, then KeSPA will maintain a monopoly. They went into the OSL on faith in the "Esport Vision" deal that was made earlier in the year, not to mention that KeSPA has implied that they would allow their players to play once they got more practice, and by the state of WCG most people feel that their players should be ready enough to at least try out for the qualifier. Necessary for what? Why would they want to maintain the state of esports? Isn't the objective to grow it? I'm still waiting for a real reason why kespa entering the SC2 scene is a bad thing. On August 25 2012 19:23 Disengaged wrote:
[quote]
And you think Kespa is in the right? Hell no. Kespa is the WORSE possible thing that can happen to SC2, should they force their way in and having shit done their way, whenever they want.
ESF is in the right and there is no point in trying to dispute that.
You supoort Kespa? Your no fan of Esports then.
More baseless claims that kespa is some kind of boogeyman trying to ruin SC2 forever. If the NBA/NFL/MLB decided to just run without a player's union, do you think people would just sit down and take it? I mean, there's really nowhere else to go that gives a decent wage, so the owners technically have all the leverage. Without the unions, the players would be treated like crap. Due to lack of any real alternatives, that was the situation for Brood War. The players had to either put up with KeSPA's bullshit or find another career. Now that StarCraft has been globalized, this is no longer the case and the ESF has become the player's union for Korean SC2. Now, KeSPA's back in the picture trying to get the upper hand once more. In terms of pure business perspective, this is fine. Until you realize that once they're back in power, the players lose their voice once more and we've time traveled into the past where workers had no rights. All these players that are influential in the ESF? They're all ex-KeSPA B teamers. They've all been there and done that. They know what they're up against, and they're sure as hell not letting it permeate the Korean eSports scene again. Would KeSPA kill eSports? Probably not. But that has nothing to do with the fact that right now, the ESF is protecting not only their own careers, but the careers of their KeSPA friends; players from the BW teams that have no voice of their own. When unions hold strikes, it's obviously "stupid". From a pure business standpoint, they're obviously in the wrong. I mean, they have contracts with their employees and they should just grind it out. But sometimes, you need to fight for something, and the ESF thinks this is worth it. In the long run, the ESF running things is better for global eSports, while KeSPA may be able to run Korean eSports better in the short term. Your opinion seems to be one that completely disregards the players. Sure, you'll still get your games and they'll probably be good no matter who comes out on top. But obviously, the players are a bit more emotionally/financially involved in this than you are and are willing to fight for their futures. Do you seriously think ESF represents the players here? They're nothing more than GOM's lapdogs. The only thing they're protecting is the GSL. Do you seriously think ESF doesnt represents the players here? They're definitely not nothing more then GOM's lapdogs. The only thing they're protecting is themselves. See what I did there? Why is it so hard for you to believe that ESF is doing all this to protect themselves and their futures from Kespa. Who for the last 10 years have oppressed their own progamers A 9-post user who registered January 2012 commenting on how Kespa "oppressed their own progamers" wow A 175 post user who registered May 2012 complaining about other people's post count. Wow. See, worthless to put it that way, so don't? Now I know why. Do you even have half the brain the understand what I said. If you registered this year, and have 9 posts, how can you know about broodwar, and that kespa oppressed their players. See now? You're welcome for the free education. Did you know you can use google to find stuff that happened in the past???! It's amazing isn't it, that way one could even learn stuff he hasn't experienced himself. Whooooaaaahhh. Wow the clowns are out in full force today. Please teach me how to use google to know that "Kespa oppressed its players". And what are you all, his attorney and spokesman or something. Let him defend himself because you are only hurting his cause.
Just stop, you're making yourself look stupider by the post. It's not hard to go read interviews from Stork and several other pro (and ex-pro) gamers that complain about the conditions. It's not hard to have been lurking or watching BW long before registering a TL account, it's not hard to go on tlpd's wiki or one of the many other websites that have stored information on things that have happened with Kespa in the past to form an opinion on them. I don't need to have been alive during the 1940s to know that Nazi Germany was not kind to Jews.
Note: I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with what he said, just that it's not hard to make an informed decision on the matter without having registered on TL prior to this year.
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On August 25 2012 22:11 ACrow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 22:08 Twinkle Toes wrote:On August 25 2012 22:04 ACrow wrote:On August 25 2012 22:02 Twinkle Toes wrote:On August 25 2012 21:56 Aelonius wrote:On August 25 2012 21:53 Twinkle Toes wrote:On August 25 2012 21:50 boag11 wrote:On August 25 2012 21:36 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 21:32 mrjpark wrote:On August 25 2012 19:30 BrosephBrostar wrote:
[quote]
Necessary for what? Why would they want to maintain the state of esports? Isn't the objective to grow it? I'm still waiting for a real reason why kespa entering the SC2 scene is a bad thing.
[quote]
More baseless claims that kespa is some kind of boogeyman trying to ruin SC2 forever. If the NBA/NFL/MLB decided to just run without a player's union, do you think people would just sit down and take it? I mean, there's really nowhere else to go that gives a decent wage, so the owners technically have all the leverage. Without the unions, the players would be treated like crap. Due to lack of any real alternatives, that was the situation for Brood War. The players had to either put up with KeSPA's bullshit or find another career. Now that StarCraft has been globalized, this is no longer the case and the ESF has become the player's union for Korean SC2. Now, KeSPA's back in the picture trying to get the upper hand once more. In terms of pure business perspective, this is fine. Until you realize that once they're back in power, the players lose their voice once more and we've time traveled into the past where workers had no rights. All these players that are influential in the ESF? They're all ex-KeSPA B teamers. They've all been there and done that. They know what they're up against, and they're sure as hell not letting it permeate the Korean eSports scene again. Would KeSPA kill eSports? Probably not. But that has nothing to do with the fact that right now, the ESF is protecting not only their own careers, but the careers of their KeSPA friends; players from the BW teams that have no voice of their own. When unions hold strikes, it's obviously "stupid". From a pure business standpoint, they're obviously in the wrong. I mean, they have contracts with their employees and they should just grind it out. But sometimes, you need to fight for something, and the ESF thinks this is worth it. In the long run, the ESF running things is better for global eSports, while KeSPA may be able to run Korean eSports better in the short term. Your opinion seems to be one that completely disregards the players. Sure, you'll still get your games and they'll probably be good no matter who comes out on top. But obviously, the players are a bit more emotionally/financially involved in this than you are and are willing to fight for their futures. Do you seriously think ESF represents the players here? They're nothing more than GOM's lapdogs. The only thing they're protecting is the GSL. Do you seriously think ESF doesnt represents the players here? They're definitely not nothing more then GOM's lapdogs. The only thing they're protecting is themselves. See what I did there? Why is it so hard for you to believe that ESF is doing all this to protect themselves and their futures from Kespa. Who for the last 10 years have oppressed their own progamers A 9-post user who registered January 2012 commenting on how Kespa "oppressed their own progamers" wow A 175 post user who registered May 2012 complaining about other people's post count. Wow. See, worthless to put it that way, so don't? Now I know why. Do you even have half the brain the understand what I said. If you registered this year, and have 9 posts, how can you know about broodwar, and that kespa oppressed their players. See now? You're welcome for the free education. Did you know you can use google to find stuff that happened in the past???! It's amazing isn't it, that way one could even learn stuff he hasn't experienced himself. Whooooaaaahhh. Wow the clowns are out in full force today. Please teach me how to use google to know that "Kespa oppressed its players". And what are you all, his attorney and spokesman or something. Let him defend himself because you are only hurting his cause. If you had any reading comprehension whatsoever you could read that I didn't say anything about Kespa in the post you quoted, but about the stupid and arrogant way you argue and having the balls to call yourself educating us.
My issue was specifically against a user who registered in January 2012 and has 9 post claiming that "Kespa oppressed its progamers". WHatever your situation is if you're a lurker, or a mind-reader or broodwar historian. My issue is with HIM stating that. So unless he comes up with some plausible and convincing proof how he knows what he claims to know, then by all accounts I am right, THAT HIM BEING A 9 POST USER WHO REGISTERED IN JANUARY 2012 CLAIMING THAT KESPA OPPRESSED ITS PROGAMERS IS RIDICULOUS.
Hell, if you can say anything in TL, I might as well confess that I am actually batman. See what I did there?
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On August 25 2012 22:14 Sethronu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 22:10 jinorazi wrote:On August 25 2012 22:06 Sethronu wrote:
I'm still waiting for someone to come up with a comprehensive list of 'atrocities' KeSPA committed, or how they could and should have served the 'international scene better'. Keep seeing people mention these things, still have no idea about either of these having been following BW since Boxer bunker rushed Yellow, though. i think there has been bad moves(other wise there wouldnt be this hate towards kespa in first place) by kespa but overblown just like how jessica's drama get overblown and that legacy lives on till today and never die. i like to think there's always two sides to the story but majority of people like to focus on one thing most of the time. its just the way it is, as tupac said. Oh, of course there's been some bad moves and poor decisions, nobody is denying that - same can be said about GomTV, MLG, NASL, IPL, Google, or Tesco though. I'm just curious what are these 'really evil things' that KeSPA supposedly done over which everyone hates them and 'can't trust them' now. I just don't get where did hundreds of people with so much hate towards KeSPA you'd think they burned their houses down or something come from.
like i said, they get overblown and the legacy lives on. look at people's attitude towards jessica...
i find her feisty-ness super sexy XD
i am korean after all...lol
kinda like corporates being corporates i guess
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EPT
