Why you shouldnt be playing random on ladder. - Page 10

31415926535

Switzerland276 Posts

August 23 2012 08:38 GMT

#181

Well, I got news for the OP : I don't give a shit that I'm not learning the correct current metagames builds because I play for fun and have no intentions of becoming a progamer.

So yeah.. if you could just stop telling me what to do and just learn to deal with the game as it's designed (it includes an random option) and stop QQing, that would be nice.

Btw, here are some ideas for your next posts : "Why you should tell your opponents when you cheese". "Why you should only play macro grames". "Why you should check with your opponents if he knows the build you're doing before doing it otherwise he might not answer properly and you won't learn anything".

FrodaN

754 Posts

August 23 2012 08:47 GMT

#182

On August 23 2012 17:38 31415926535 wrote:
Well, I got news for the OP : I don't give a shit that I'm not learning the correct current metagames builds because I play for fun and have no intentions of becoming a progamer.

So yeah.. if you could just stop telling me what to do and just learn to deal with the game as it's designed (it includes an random option) and stop QQing, that would be nice.

Btw, here are some ideas for your next posts : "Why you should tell your opponents when you cheese". "Why you should only play macro grames". "Why you should check with your opponents if he knows the build you're doing before doing it otherwise he might not answer properly and you won't learn anything".

Haha OP got spanked. Spot on.

Bwiggly

United States246 Posts

August 23 2012 08:52 GMT

#183

Random shouldnt affect lower level players from learning b/c the metagame does not dictate the winner. Better macro does. Plain and simple mechanics will carry a player by itself to Master's not playing the metagame. Even if the player is in top Master's as random that's impressive to say the least, and the better player yet again should win.
Random isn't some end all imbalanced 4th race. It's using mild surprise tactics and that's it, and once it's scouted it's a standard game. But that's just how I see it.

FortMonty

United States63 Posts

August 23 2012 08:55 GMT

#184

I've always said that the advantage a Random recieves ends when they're scouted. It's just the way it works.

Jerrybear

United States9 Posts

August 23 2012 08:59 GMT

#185

Honestly I do not disagree with any of the OP points except the description states "Ladder" not "Tournament/Pro". Playing random can actually put you behind just as easily as the opponent depending on skill level. You referenced PvZ in your match up where you play the same match up but from different perspectives.

I am really putting this directly at the randoms on ladder who are plat or below who don't tell their race.

This is what completely confuses me, because honestly at plat and below for sure, the true meta game is not the meta game. I started playing this game in beta, I was about 12 when SC1 first hit the shelves and I got it at the nearest store but was never amazing didn't even have a race or understand higher thinking. So when I played after the game came out, i went 0-5 placement into bronze. I wanted to get better and worked my way up to plat in season 1, and in season 2 I made it to diamond. A person who is say gold level, playing someone versus gold level does not matter what races are what. It just really doesn't matter if i'm playing a T,Z, or P or even do not know, because even if they try to cheese it's just not that good of a cheese and you can easily defend them, no matter your race or your opponents race b/c after you defend it and you have 14-15 workers still and he destroyed your econ, he still only have 7 or 8 and is building more buildings to attack with.

I just do not see the problem with random on the ladder because 1) if you honestly want to be pro this is the type of things you need to be able to EASILY handle at levels below plat. 2) They are a race, if you get a map they can spawn 4 places scout early see what they are and count workers, if there are only 2 late scout you know where you are going, get the little extra econ in case it's a mirror match and scout them a little later just scout and do not freak when you see 2 gateways or cannons or bunkers being built at your base. If you defend at that level you win 3) Have fun on the ladder, in reality you have many many many losses ahead of you, and if the ones to random are making you mad wait till you really do have a 5 base macro game where you throw your infestors just inside snipe range and lose them all then get rolled over 1 miss click.

Playing random only makes your ability to read, react and dictate the match that much easier, because once they spawn they have already decided the build that they are going most likely since they know your race. You get to read and react to what they plan on doing from the start. That's probably the best part, they have a specific type of play they want to do in the matchup and you can exploit it's weakness' once you see what they are trying to do.

What your opponent enjoys is the most important, because everyone can play how they want. You can win vs it all if played right, so their race shouldn't matter at that level.

*Edit- if On August 23 2012 18:02 Geiko wrote:

On August 23 2012 17:38 31415926535 wrote:On topic, I think what OP meant was that random players who are proud that they know "how to play all three races" really only know how to play random... If you're planning on switching to the race you like the most after, then playing random is detrimental to your learning.

Is correct to what the OP was stating, the above was on the meta game differences, not on being able to switch to a primary race from random

figq

12519 Posts

August 23 2012 08:59 GMT

#186

Random is a race in itself. Some people like to learn it. Yes, the way the other races play against random is different than how they play each other, that's part of what makes random a unique race. I agree, to learn other races really well, it's better to off-race. Not everyone has this goal when they play random though. Some just want to play random. That said, there are also crazy people like me who always open hatch first vs random.

Geiko

France1959 Posts

August 23 2012 09:02 GMT

#187

I actually do this when I'm testing out all-ins.

"going to 4 gate blink-obs all-in you, you should build a bunker in main and be ready to pull some SCVs"

"1 base immortal sentry push, get some speedlings before 10minute mark"

and so on... It's great for getting good practice instead of facing some idiot zerg who gets 75 drones while you're on 1 base or terrans who go fast 3 CC without scouting your 4 gate blink.

On topic, I think what OP meant was that random players who are proud that they know "how to play all three races" really only know how to play random... If you're planning on switching to the race you like the most after, then playing random is detrimental to your learning.

winthrop

Hong Kong956 Posts

August 23 2012 09:10 GMT

#188

Why you shouldnt be playing greed in ladder

Schnake

Germany2819 Posts

August 23 2012 09:20 GMT

#189

I don't see the problem. You could argue that playing random has its own meta and consequently you do not need to play the standard matchups meta at all. There really isn't a lot of validity.

pAzand

Sweden539 Posts

August 23 2012 09:23 GMT

#190

I've started playing random abit and I give away my race if I spawn a ZvP/ZvZ (or if asked), in other cases the building placement/opening before scouting isn't THAT detrimental to the game experience. The reason i play random nowadays, after a longer break, is;

a) Didn't like PvP even though it's (still) my best matchup.
b) Every race kind of requires different skillsets that will strenghten you as a player when you finally pick a race
c) you can catch up with the metagame if you ever want to play more serious (gonna be hard though, buts that part of the charm of sc)
d) If you really got the talent and dedication to "go pro"/play really serious, it doesn't really matter which race you play until you are at a high Master level anyway (imo)!
e) Having more fun and learning much more about the game than if I'd go back just playing PvX on a diamond-low master level!

D_K_night

Canada615 Posts

August 23 2012 11:25 GMT

#191

On August 23 2012 07:35 Masvidal wrote:
Why doesn't random show your race during loading screen, like any self-respecting RTS?

BW didn't show your race on loading screen either when you picked random. Nor did Warcraft 3. So what RTS games are "self-respecting", then?

ODKStevez

Ireland1225 Posts

August 23 2012 11:54 GMT

#192

Random is a coin flip game in my opinion. Especially for Protoss. Because they cannot forge fast expand against a random, especially when the scout the last place on a 4 player map. I have always said, play random, but the loading screen should reveal what race you are playing. Most people that play random play it to abuse this in my opinion. Most of my games vs random are all 1 base players. I like how the option is there for people wanting a variety but it SHOULD reveal the race.

Gigaschatten

Germany79 Posts

August 23 2012 12:03 GMT

#193

Luckily I live in a free democratic country in europe and free to choose playing random on the ladder, like it or not.
If I am bad or not is of no interest for you. You don't even consider all the possibilities why someone plays random:

- don't care about ladder,
- just play for fun,
- boring to play only 1 race,
- getting other achievements,
- couldn't decide on 1 race,

Master Random on EU account here. And 98% of my games are Macro games. Now pick some other topic where you can bash other people.

How many randoms are out there? Like 2% - 3%? Wow... really a concern. C'mooooon.

radscorpion9

Canada2252 Posts

August 23 2012 12:18 GMT

#194

On August 23 2012 18:02 Geiko wrote:

Show nested quote +

Yeah but a lot of people could assume you're lying, and that you're trying to get them defensive so that you can get an advantage in economy to crush them with later. But I guess if its working for you most people just assume you're telling the truth? Seems kind of risky, hopefully everyone will just learn how to scout

FabledIntegral

United States9232 Posts

August 23 2012 22:38 GMT

#195

On August 23 2012 20:25 D_K_night wrote:

Show nested quote +

BW didn't show your race on loading screen either when you picked random. Nor did Warcraft 3. So what RTS games are "self-respecting", then?

EA games, while far from self respecting, also generally did not reveal random.

Silentness

United States2821 Posts

August 23 2012 22:56 GMT

#196

On August 23 2012 07:28 WniO wrote:
in the end we will all be playing random... look at bw.

haha yeah I remember playing against random players on Iccup.

I had so much respect for random players. They whipped my ass and took my Iccup points.

Penecks

United States600 Posts

August 23 2012 23:40 GMT

#197

Sure no one can stop you from picking random, but it is just a very selfish way of playing all the races, when one could just use some dice or random generator to pick a concrete race for each game. You are negatively affecting the fun/practice of your opponents. But I guess if you solely play to win, you'll take any advantage you can get, huh.

diddLY

United States215 Posts

August 23 2012 23:50 GMT

#198

On August 24 2012 08:40 Penecks wrote:
Sure no one can stop you from picking random, but it is just a very selfish way of playing all the races, when one could just use some dice or random generator to pick a concrete race for each game. You are negatively affecting the fun/practice of your opponents. But I guess if you solely play to win, you'll take any advantage you can get, huh.

That's why there are so many top tier random players? Ever go on 20+ game losing streaks? Random is random, it's good for ladder and good for the game. Adapt.

Sp00ly

United Kingdom1546 Posts

August 23 2012 23:50 GMT

#199

You can always tell them your race at the start of the game so they can play "standard" against you. Apollo does this all the time.

U_G_L_Y

United States516 Posts

August 23 2012 23:52 GMT

#200

What's wrong with forcing a different meta-game?

Other than it's imbalanced against Protoss on large maps =)