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Natespank
Canada449 Posts
You know that random players have to learn 12 different matchups, if you include random as a race selection? You might as well trouble yourself to learn a 4th... if random was so hard to beat, why isn't masters full of them? Stop complaining so much. Enough with these threads! Stop whining. People like you are just weaker that those who can withstand a fair challenge. | ||
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Penecks
United States600 Posts
On August 24 2012 08:50 diddLY wrote: That's why there are so many top tier random players? Ever go on 20+ game losing streaks? Random is random, it's good for ladder and good for the game. Adapt. When everyone is practicing 8+ hours (assuming this is what you mean by top tier) then of course the guy who only gets a third of that playtime as any one race is going to suffer. But in a ladder environment (aka, most people here) you will find opponents who play 3 games a day all the way up to people who play for hours. It's just not a valid comparison, or a good argument simply due to the differences there. 20 games losing streak? Maybe not that severe, but I've certainly come close  | ||
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diddLY
United States215 Posts
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jmertelj
Slovenia84 Posts
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BreakfastBurrito
United States893 Posts
"normal metagame" is so dumb  you can play against random THE EXACT SAME as you go against other races | ||
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Valikyr
Sweden2653 Posts
On August 24 2012 09:16 BreakfastBurrito wrote: didnt oz 1 gate FE and beat stephano 4-1 "normal metagame" is so dumb you can play against random THE EXACT SAME as you go against other races Ye I'll just FFE and hope I face a zerg. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
Nearly a third of Protosses still Forge FE anyways. Some build their first pylon as if they were going to forge FE, and if their opponent is Terran, they go Nexus first instead. The majority however build their pylon arbitrarily for the first one, scout that you're Zerg, drop a second pylon down at the bottom of the ramp, then go forge nexus cannon. The second pylon does not significantly hurt you, as you can continue to produce probes whereas otherwise if you did not build the second pylon, you'd cut probes. And let's be honest, how many Protosses use a pylon to block a Zerg's natural anyways, and let it finish, while the Zerg simply takes a third instead? Please, it's not a major difference. It's a minor, minor drawback. | ||
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Fujikura
United States337 Posts
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envisioN .
United States552 Posts
People should be considering vs R as a 4th matchup with its own meta game. In RvP, the metagame is a gateway first opening because of the uncertainty of the opponents race. This metagame also develops at a much slower pace relative to the metagame of other MUs, because of the smaller portion of random players on ladder. | ||
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BlazeFury01
United States1460 Posts
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Gimpb
293 Posts
Random has some pretty strong disadvantages as well: distributed practice means slow progression and you don't get to veto maps based on racial advantages. | ||
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jdseemoreglass
United States3773 Posts
On August 23 2012 06:58 BloodNinja wrote: I play random because its fun and I play to have fun. So why shouldn't I play random and have fun? Why exactly should I care about the metagame? Its not like I plan on going pro (or even hitting GM on ladder). What this guy said, 100%. I play to have fun, and random is fun. That's pretty much it. And it's starting to make it even more fun for me knowing that random pisses so many people off. | ||
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On August 24 2012 08:40 Penecks wrote: Sure no one can stop you from picking random, but it is just a very selfish way of playing all the races, when one could just use some dice or random generator to pick a concrete race for each game. You are negatively affecting the fun/practice of your opponents. But I guess if you solely play to win, you'll take any advantage you can get, huh. lol, i hope this was sarcasm and ive been trolled Who are you to declare what someone wants to play as selfish? Sounds kinda selfish to declare any random player themselves selfish just because in your own personal opinion it ruins your fun. Good thing the ladder wasn't made for fun, let alone yours. Also, isn't picking a single race taking an advantage to win since Random isn't viable at high levels anyways? | ||
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Zealot Lord
Hong Kong748 Posts
eitherway, I really don't think it hurts you in anyway, playing in uncomfortable positions can help players improve in their split second decision making, being able to adjust on the fly is what makes the better players on top usually - superior mechanics tend to shine through in these situations. Sure being able to learn and play the metagame properly is nice and all, but at the same time, if you focus on it too much, it makes you incredibly vulnerable when your opponent plays an unorthodox style I think. | ||
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FortMonty
United States63 Posts
Just another way to look at it, since we're on the topic.XD | ||
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fezvez
France3021 Posts
Introducing...the Scrub In the world of Street Fighter competition, there is a word for players who aren't good: "scrub." Everyone begins as a scrub---it takes time to learn the game to get to a point where you know what you're doing. There is the mistaken notion, though, that by merely continuing to play or "learn" the game, that one can become a top player. In reality, the "scrub" has many more mental obstacles to overcome than anything actually going on during the game. The scrub has lost the game even before it starts. He's lost the game before he's chosen his character. He's lost the game even before the decision of which game is to be played has been made. His problem? He does not play to win. The scrub would take great issue with this statement for he usually believes that he is playing to win, but he is bound up by an intricate construct of fictitious rules that prevent him from ever truly competing. These made-up rules vary from game to game, of course, but their character remains constant. In Street Fighter, for example, the scrub labels a wide variety of tactics and situations "cheap." So-called "cheapness" is truly the mantra of the scrub. I am sorry if this copy was harmful to its author, and I can remove it asap. However, I guess that this won't be a problem. | ||
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sc14s
United States5052 Posts
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Divergence
Canada363 Posts
If you are learning Random for the sake of playing Random in a tournament then that is totally fine. But you need to think about Random as a race of it's own, and not a way to learn all three races. The only way to actually learn all three races is to race-pick. Randoming causes you to face many different builds that you would never face in a race-pick scenario. You will be at a disadvantage when race-picking because, for example, you won't be used to playing against a FFE with ZvP. To reiterate, Random is perfectly valid race choice, but there are certain aspects of the game you don't learn with Random. If you decide to start race-picking you will find yourself at a disadvantage because you will have ZERO experience playing against certain styles (FFE most notably, but CC first in ZvT to a lesser extent). Also, you will have spent a lot of time playing against people who use sub-optimal strategies (such as pool first in ZvT because they are afraid you might be P), so a lot of that practice will be wasted if you eventually switch to playing one race. | ||
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Divergence
Canada363 Posts
On August 24 2012 10:42 fezvez wrote: OP should read this article by David Sirlin. I am sorry if this copy was harmful to its author, and I can remove it asap. However, I guess that this won't be a problem. You should re-read the OP. He wasn't calling Random a "scrub" tactic so your Sirlin article is irrelevant (although it is a good article and very relevant to many aspects of Starcraft). He was pointing out that randoming causes non-standard situations to arise, making Random not a good way to learn the individual races (for the purpose of race-picking). Playing Random teaches you how to play Random; it doesn't teach you how to play each race in a race-pick situation. OP's attitude is slightly flawed though because he assumes that people play Random in order to learn each race. Some people just want to play Random as a race of it's own, in which case randoming is the best way to play for them. | ||
stuchiu
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
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