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If this thread can't remain civil then we'll have to close it. Thread will be moderated harshly from pg.3 onwards. |
On August 20 2012 18:32 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 17:08 DougJDempsey wrote:On August 20 2012 17:00 iaguz wrote:
We had irradiate. It was renamed Snipe (spell: Choose target zerg unit. End it's life) with the exception that it wasn't aoe and instead of having a set duration the actual duration was 'as fast as you could shift click'. We all know what happened to that.
And Kawaii is totally wrong, Ghosts have hte single most damaging ability in the game: Launch Nuclear Missile! Jeez do you even play Terran at a high level? Well, im pretty sure snipe was nerfed because it dealt with both ultra and broods at the same time. Yet fungal continues to be good against both air and ground... Double standards from blizzard is mindblowing. Yes, because these abilities are the same right? You can minimize the fungal damage and effect by spreading units, you can't minimize snipe effect, you just killed everything what was in your sight with them. The way you think is really mindblowing...
because i really claimed the abilities are the same. right? its the fact that snipe was in a sense too good against everything that it was nerfed, but fungal is being kept the same when its also too good against everything. it took about 60 ghosts to "kill everything in your sight with them", maybe you should look at ghost cost first before you talk.
On August 20 2012 19:43 Cinim wrote:
The only balance issues in this matchup are mainly in EU, and I think it's not because T being bad, but because european zergs are just becoming too good(there are way more Z in EU than terran) The top terrans, in both EU, Korea and US are doing really well in TvZ still.
And saying raven are only good if Z makes mistake is the most wrong thing I have ever heard. With perfect spreads, raven are still cost-effictive, but if Z clumbs up it's an instant loss vs HSM.
People also forget that HSM is not the only unit, you have PDD that you can use, making corrupters useless so that vikings can attack blords freely. If you're vs ultralisk compostion, it's even stronger being able to HSM on all the lings and blings instead, the infestors will always be a bit in the back, so it's easy to hit before ravens get fungal
More important than anything, people forget that auto turrets are also insanely good, you don't get as many of them but they are better than infested terrans and they start to attack instantly...
firstly, no one in their right mind would spend their energy that they took the past 3 minutes to gather to use HSM on zerglings.
secondly, no one has ever argued that PDD was bad.
thirdly, auto turrets are rubbish. infested terrans scale with armor and range attack upgrades, auto turrets require 4 hexes and nothing below them to throw down, whereas infested terrans can be clicked on units and it would automatically go to the side of it. maybe if auto turrets was actually good it would be worth spending the 3 minutes worth of energy you just took the time to gather.
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Lol, the reduced creep spread and raven buff is a very good move by blizzard and exactly address the problem with zvt atm (that is inefficiency of mid game pushes bcoz of creep spread and a lategame deathball by zerg). If you think that the queen range buff should be reverted so you can again control the game since 5 min with 4 helions then its time for you to wake up and start thinking about new strategies instead of making xXx qq topics on forum about balance.
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On August 20 2012 19:58 syriuszonito wrote:
Lol, the reduced creep spread and raven buff is a very good move by blizzard and exactly address the problem with zvt atm (that is inefficiency of mid game pushes bcoz of creep spread and a lategame deathball by zerg). If you think that the queen range buff should be reverted so you can again control the game since 5 min with 4 helions then its time for you to wake up and start thinking about new strategies instead of making xXx qq topics on forum about balance.
In all seriousness I wonder why Avilo makes these topics instead of trying to improve and incorperate the new changes into his game play. It's not going to change anything.
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On August 20 2012 20:40 Denzil wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 19:58 syriuszonito wrote:
Lol, the reduced creep spread and raven buff is a very good move by blizzard and exactly address the problem with zvt atm (that is inefficiency of mid game pushes bcoz of creep spread and a lategame deathball by zerg). If you think that the queen range buff should be reverted so you can again control the game since 5 min with 4 helions then its time for you to wake up and start thinking about new strategies instead of making xXx qq topics on forum about balance. In all seriousness I wonder why Avilo makes these topics instead of trying to improve and incorperate the new changes into his game play. It's not going to change anything.
You wonder why because you have likely never played terran. Queen buff should not be reverted completely, but a jump from 3-5 range was too much. It should go back to 4. The creep change is a step in the right direction, but ravens are just a completely different tech path from anything useful in the TvZ early game so that is not the right area to address for this matchup.
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On August 20 2012 20:42 CaptainCrush wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 20:40 Denzil wrote:On August 20 2012 19:58 syriuszonito wrote:
Lol, the reduced creep spread and raven buff is a very good move by blizzard and exactly address the problem with zvt atm (that is inefficiency of mid game pushes bcoz of creep spread and a lategame deathball by zerg). If you think that the queen range buff should be reverted so you can again control the game since 5 min with 4 helions then its time for you to wake up and start thinking about new strategies instead of making xXx qq topics on forum about balance. In all seriousness I wonder why Avilo makes these topics instead of trying to improve and incorperate the new changes into his game play. It's not going to change anything. You wonder why because you have likely never played terran. Queen buff should not be reverted completely, but a jump from 3-5 range was too much. It should go back to 4. The creep change is a step in the right direction, but ravens are just a completely different tech path from anything useful in the TvZ early game so that is not the right area to address for this matchup.
Like banshees?
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0 terrans remain in the winners bracket of WCG korea- it's nice that Blizzard intends to tweak TvZ lategame, but they haven't done a thing to help out in TvP lategame. Terran is already the hardest of the 3 races by far overall, it would be nice to see some acknowledgment in the form of a balance tweak... and not a crappy speed bonus to the raven. The raven, to come into regular use, needs more than .25 speed...
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On August 20 2012 19:43 DougJDempsey wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 18:32 Ramiz1989 wrote:On August 20 2012 17:08 DougJDempsey wrote:On August 20 2012 17:00 iaguz wrote:
We had irradiate. It was renamed Snipe (spell: Choose target zerg unit. End it's life) with the exception that it wasn't aoe and instead of having a set duration the actual duration was 'as fast as you could shift click'. We all know what happened to that.
And Kawaii is totally wrong, Ghosts have hte single most damaging ability in the game: Launch Nuclear Missile! Jeez do you even play Terran at a high level? Well, im pretty sure snipe was nerfed because it dealt with both ultra and broods at the same time. Yet fungal continues to be good against both air and ground... Double standards from blizzard is mindblowing. Yes, because these abilities are the same right? You can minimize the fungal damage and effect by spreading units, you can't minimize snipe effect, you just killed everything what was in your sight with them. The way you think is really mindblowing... because i really claimed the abilities are the same. right? its the fact that snipe was in a sense too good against everything that it was nerfed, but fungal is being kept the same when its also too good against everything. it took about 60 ghosts to "kill everything in your sight with them", maybe you should look at ghost cost first before you talk.
You didn't need 60 Ghost, you needed like ~20 of them, and in the late game, 20 Ghosts are nothing when only other things you were making back then are few Siege Tanks and Medivacs that cost gas, and were just massing Marines. On the other hand, any late game composition consisting of Brood Lords/Corruptors/Infestors/Banelings/Ultras were more costly than those Ghosts, and was fully countered by them.
And Fungal was changed a lot, it was even nerfed. It wasn't huge nerf, but it was a nerf. The Fungal works that way that it forces you to micro and spread your units before the engagements to minimize its effect. It is supposed to be good vs. tons of clumped units. While Snipe couldn't be evaded in any possible way.
In the end, those are not double standards, you just aren't looking from every angle. And if you are going to compare any abilities with Fungal, it should be Seeker Missile from Raven, since it is the only ability that does AoE damage and that is somehow comparable to Fungal/Psi storm.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina261 Posts
Aren't the win rates at normal levels at the moment?
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On August 20 2012 20:52 Juisson wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 20:42 CaptainCrush wrote:On August 20 2012 20:40 Denzil wrote:On August 20 2012 19:58 syriuszonito wrote:
Lol, the reduced creep spread and raven buff is a very good move by blizzard and exactly address the problem with zvt atm (that is inefficiency of mid game pushes bcoz of creep spread and a lategame deathball by zerg). If you think that the queen range buff should be reverted so you can again control the game since 5 min with 4 helions then its time for you to wake up and start thinking about new strategies instead of making xXx qq topics on forum about balance. In all seriousness I wonder why Avilo makes these topics instead of trying to improve and incorperate the new changes into his game play. It's not going to change anything. You wonder why because you have likely never played terran. Queen buff should not be reverted completely, but a jump from 3-5 range was too much. It should go back to 4. The creep change is a step in the right direction, but ravens are just a completely different tech path from anything useful in the TvZ early game so that is not the right area to address for this matchup. Like banshees?
They can give a terran an edge, but again, with that queen buff they are more of a gimmick than anything dangerous. They can kill a few drones before zerg defends but then they are useless unless the army moves out with no AA. Then once infestors hit they are beyond useless, at that point its kinda like making hydras in a TvZ.
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On August 20 2012 20:42 CaptainCrush wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 20:40 Denzil wrote:On August 20 2012 19:58 syriuszonito wrote:
Lol, the reduced creep spread and raven buff is a very good move by blizzard and exactly address the problem with zvt atm (that is inefficiency of mid game pushes bcoz of creep spread and a lategame deathball by zerg). If you think that the queen range buff should be reverted so you can again control the game since 5 min with 4 helions then its time for you to wake up and start thinking about new strategies instead of making xXx qq topics on forum about balance. In all seriousness I wonder why Avilo makes these topics instead of trying to improve and incorperate the new changes into his game play. It's not going to change anything. You wonder why because you have likely never played terran. Queen buff should not be reverted completely, but a jump from 3-5 range was too much. It should go back to 4. The creep change is a step in the right direction, but ravens are just a completely different tech path from anything useful in the TvZ early game so that is not the right area to address for this matchup.
Unless you're GM or high master I highly doubt a Queen having 2 extra range is the reason you're losing.
go improve your macro
go improve your game sense
go switch up some builds
whining about a change that isn't ridiculous seems silly (i'm talking colossus 22 range silly) when you have so many other aspects you can improve to get the win through those means
Does Avilo have amazing gamesense? Does he have amazing macro? Has he switched up his builds and tried new things and timings? I can guess the answer to these based on how many times he's written out posts such as these addressing things that don't really matter to him.(don't get me wrong he's a decent semi-pro) Perhaps he should go practice and aquire these things through practicing and working hard instead of writing a new balance post every 3 weeks.
Watching IdrA v Bomber at one of the MLGs I can't remember (it was a while ago but still relevant) proved the power of Terran macro and never missing cycles where everytime idrA just managed to destroy the army Bomber had 1 almost surpassing the previous' size ready to send, and the main reason why IdrA managed to deal with it was because of how on with his injects he was and matching Bomber's macro
Don't blame an extra 2 range on something that is really irrelevant when you can just improve other aspects and win regardless. Korean Terrans sucked it up and did the above. The result? They're winning.
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On August 20 2012 19:32 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 19:25 DuckNuked wrote:
So according to you Big J: All Zergs have become better than lots of Terrans who were beating them before patch ? No. Where did I write something like this?
Look, both of you are construing rather than arguing, but there's no point in feigning ignorance. This and other threads are full of people saying: look at Mvp and Taeja, and you'll see dozens if not hundreds of posts arguing why that's not a valid point. So to expect that now your one line (all caps) statement will somehow erase all that discussion is pretty naive. And I do not think you are that naive.
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On August 20 2012 18:37 wTeffecT wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 14:17 Aterons_toss wrote:
As someone who doesn't know shit about tvz from a player perspective, could i ask, what is wrong with tvz atm if you play it the same way mvp does ? Is there a "fix" needed ? isn't the speed buff enough to simply allow that MVP style to work perfectly ( since ravens will be faster than infestors... right ?, i don't remember what the speed increase was ;p ). Why do people do things like this? Why do people point to MVP and TaeJa and just say 'play like they do, TvZ is fine.' Have you maybe, just maybe considered that MVP and TaeJa are beating zergs regularly becasue THEY ARE JUST BETTER PLAYERS THAN THEIR OPPONENTS. God, how can you expect Master's players to play like MVP and TaeJa? It isn't the style that makes them strong, it is their exceptional macro, unit control and map awareness that allows them to beat anyone. This exact same thing happened in the first GSL with FruitDealer, but nobody told zerg players to 'Just play like FruitDealer' becasue not everyone is freaking fruitdealer. Jesus this is such a stupid argument. Now that I've vented my annoyance at some idiocy, I want to clarify something that I said earlier: 'The problem with TvZ atm, at least in my opinion, is that the Queen buff has made all aggression from Terran borderline negligible. Hellions are far weaker at containing and harassing, early bio timings are so much weaker, and banshee openings are so much weaker. Because of this, terrans can't force the zerg to stop making drones - so when terran opens aggresively, and the zerg can just make 80 drones without batting an eyelid anyway, the terran falls wayyyy behind.
The most recent solution to this is for terran to just play stupid greedy - 3 CCs off of 1 rax etc. Again, the problem with this is that because zerg can spam drones so quickly, the moment they scout a double expand they wil stop making anything other than drones, and even then, with the terran on 3 CCs, the zerg will still get to 80 drones before the terran gets to even just 50 SCVs - terrans again fall wayyyyy behind.
It seems to me that no matter whether they are aggresive or passive, terrans just can't get ahead in this matchup anymore (assuming that both players are of equal skill level).
This is why I have starting playing TvZ ForGG style - just suiciding hellions into mineral lines. It's actually what I have also been seeing from a lot of pro terrans as well. I guess the mentality is this: You can't stop the zerg from making drones, so the only other solution is to kill the drones at all costs. I saw SuperNova, MVP, Bomber and more literally suiciding hellions into mineral lines so much during IEM, but the problem with this is that it is such a huge gamble. If there are a lot of queens, 300 resources worth of roaches, spine crawlers etc. that kind of play just falls a part.'^^My point here is that the problems with TvZ lategame have arisen becasue of the queen buff. It is so hard to pressure the zerg early now, that their drone count hits 80 by 10 minutes and Broodlords are killing your bio before you've had the change to build one thor. There is potential, however for this to be balanced by a lategame terran buff, such as that to the Raven, but to be honest, a MS buff won't really do much. Either make zerg more vulnerable early, or make terran stronger late. Blizzard brought this rubbish upon themselves when they decided that the Queen needed to have it's utility and power doubled in a matchup that was essentially balanced up until that point. I think that Dustin went out drinking and was recovering from a hangover on the day that the devs decided that a queen buff was a fantastic idea. Edit: At the above poster; MVP beat both Nerchio and Vortix becasue he is better than them, not becasue terran has somehow in your post gone from UP to OP. How can you even consider current zerg play styles weak when the winrate sits at 45/55 in favour of zerg internationally? MVP is just BETTER than those two. Honestly, Vortix is just bad - his teching patterns are predictable, his unit control is pretty bad, and he constantly gets into terrible engagements where he just 1a moves his entire ultralisk infestor ling army into sieged tanks and marauders. On top of this, his desicion making is so poor when looking at expansions. Even Day9 pointed out in one of his games against SuperNova (I think it was SN), he constantly fails to expand when he has the oppotunity, and he seems to always take the worst expansion avaliable. The guy is just a scrub benefiting from the current metagame which has zergs sitting on top.
MVP and Taeja being better than everyone is not an excuse. They set the example and build orders, and if other Terrans cant keep up, thats their fault, not the game balance or patch changes.
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On August 20 2012 21:14 Denzil wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 20:42 CaptainCrush wrote:On August 20 2012 20:40 Denzil wrote:On August 20 2012 19:58 syriuszonito wrote:
Lol, the reduced creep spread and raven buff is a very good move by blizzard and exactly address the problem with zvt atm (that is inefficiency of mid game pushes bcoz of creep spread and a lategame deathball by zerg). If you think that the queen range buff should be reverted so you can again control the game since 5 min with 4 helions then its time for you to wake up and start thinking about new strategies instead of making xXx qq topics on forum about balance. In all seriousness I wonder why Avilo makes these topics instead of trying to improve and incorperate the new changes into his game play. It's not going to change anything. You wonder why because you have likely never played terran. Queen buff should not be reverted completely, but a jump from 3-5 range was too much. It should go back to 4. The creep change is a step in the right direction, but ravens are just a completely different tech path from anything useful in the TvZ early game so that is not the right area to address for this matchup. Unless you're GM or high master I highly doubt a Queen having 2 extra range is the reason you're losing. go improve your macro go improve your game sense go switch up some builds whining about a change that isn't ridiculous seems silly (i'm talking colossus 22 range silly) when you have so many other aspects you can improve to get the win through those means Does Avilo have amazing gamesense? Does he have amazing macro? Has he switched up his builds and tried new things and timings? I can guess the answer to these based on how many times he's written out posts such as these addressing things that don't really matter to him.(don't get me wrong he's a decent semi-pro) Perhaps he should go practice and aquire these things through practicing and working hard instead of writing a new balance post every 3 weeks. Watching IdrA v Bomber at one of the MLGs I can't remember (it was a while ago but still relevant) proved the power of Terran macro and never missing cycles where everytime idrA just managed to destroy the army Bomber had 1 almost surpassing the previous' size ready to send, and the main reason why IdrA managed to deal with it was because of how on with his injects he was and matching Bomber's macro Don't blame an extra 2 range on something that is really irrelevant when you can just improve other aspects and win regardless. Korean Terrans sucked it up and did the above. The result? They're winning.
Well now i've seen you defend zerg in every thread containing the word Terran, and all you've basicly said is that terran should get better and questioning peoples skill in every form. I gotta ask, what rank GM are you and how many years have you been pro?
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On August 20 2012 21:54 Solarist wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 21:14 Denzil wrote:On August 20 2012 20:42 CaptainCrush wrote:On August 20 2012 20:40 Denzil wrote:On August 20 2012 19:58 syriuszonito wrote:
Lol, the reduced creep spread and raven buff is a very good move by blizzard and exactly address the problem with zvt atm (that is inefficiency of mid game pushes bcoz of creep spread and a lategame deathball by zerg). If you think that the queen range buff should be reverted so you can again control the game since 5 min with 4 helions then its time for you to wake up and start thinking about new strategies instead of making xXx qq topics on forum about balance. In all seriousness I wonder why Avilo makes these topics instead of trying to improve and incorperate the new changes into his game play. It's not going to change anything. You wonder why because you have likely never played terran. Queen buff should not be reverted completely, but a jump from 3-5 range was too much. It should go back to 4. The creep change is a step in the right direction, but ravens are just a completely different tech path from anything useful in the TvZ early game so that is not the right area to address for this matchup. Unless you're GM or high master I highly doubt a Queen having 2 extra range is the reason you're losing. go improve your macro go improve your game sense go switch up some builds whining about a change that isn't ridiculous seems silly (i'm talking colossus 22 range silly) when you have so many other aspects you can improve to get the win through those means Does Avilo have amazing gamesense? Does he have amazing macro? Has he switched up his builds and tried new things and timings? I can guess the answer to these based on how many times he's written out posts such as these addressing things that don't really matter to him.(don't get me wrong he's a decent semi-pro) Perhaps he should go practice and aquire these things through practicing and working hard instead of writing a new balance post every 3 weeks. Watching IdrA v Bomber at one of the MLGs I can't remember (it was a while ago but still relevant) proved the power of Terran macro and never missing cycles where everytime idrA just managed to destroy the army Bomber had 1 almost surpassing the previous' size ready to send, and the main reason why IdrA managed to deal with it was because of how on with his injects he was and matching Bomber's macro Don't blame an extra 2 range on something that is really irrelevant when you can just improve other aspects and win regardless. Korean Terrans sucked it up and did the above. The result? They're winning. Well now i've seen you defend zerg in every thread containing the word Terran, and all you've basicly said is that terran should get better and questioning peoples skill in every form. I gotta ask, what rank GM are you and how many years have you been pro?
Every thread as in this one and the one where I defend JRecco's improvement in form as he left school?
I'll question your credentials on stating there is a problem first before I show you mine for defending the whine
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On August 20 2012 20:56 Natespank wrote:
0 terrans remain in the winners bracket of WCG korea- it's nice that Blizzard intends to tweak TvZ lategame, but they haven't done a thing to help out in TvP lategame. Terran is already the hardest of the 3 races by far overall, it would be nice to see some acknowledgment in the form of a balance tweak... and not a crappy speed bonus to the raven. The raven, to come into regular use, needs more than .25 speed...
Actually, that is WCS Korea. For WCG qualifiers, terrans actually have the most qualifiers (plus MVP). If anything, it is the Korean zergs who are struggling (mainly vs vP).
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On August 20 2012 21:14 Denzil wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 20:42 CaptainCrush wrote:On August 20 2012 20:40 Denzil wrote:On August 20 2012 19:58 syriuszonito wrote:
Lol, the reduced creep spread and raven buff is a very good move by blizzard and exactly address the problem with zvt atm (that is inefficiency of mid game pushes bcoz of creep spread and a lategame deathball by zerg). If you think that the queen range buff should be reverted so you can again control the game since 5 min with 4 helions then its time for you to wake up and start thinking about new strategies instead of making xXx qq topics on forum about balance. In all seriousness I wonder why Avilo makes these topics instead of trying to improve and incorperate the new changes into his game play. It's not going to change anything. You wonder why because you have likely never played terran. Queen buff should not be reverted completely, but a jump from 3-5 range was too much. It should go back to 4. The creep change is a step in the right direction, but ravens are just a completely different tech path from anything useful in the TvZ early game so that is not the right area to address for this matchup. Unless you're GM or high master I highly doubt a Queen having 2 extra range is the reason you're losing. go improve your macro go improve your game sense go switch up some builds whining about a change that isn't ridiculous seems silly (i'm talking colossus 22 range silly) when you have so many other aspects you can improve to get the win through those means Does Avilo have amazing gamesense? Does he have amazing macro? Has he switched up his builds and tried new things and timings? I can guess the answer to these based on how many times he's written out posts such as these addressing things that don't really matter to him.(don't get me wrong he's a decent semi-pro) Perhaps he should go practice and aquire these things through practicing and working hard instead of writing a new balance post every 3 weeks. Watching IdrA v Bomber at one of the MLGs I can't remember (it was a while ago but still relevant) proved the power of Terran macro and never missing cycles where everytime idrA just managed to destroy the army Bomber had 1 almost surpassing the previous' size ready to send, and the main reason why IdrA managed to deal with it was because of how on with his injects he was and matching Bomber's macro Don't blame an extra 2 range on something that is really irrelevant when you can just improve other aspects and win regardless. Korean Terrans sucked it up and did the above. The result? They're winning.
Actually, MVP mentioned a lot of times he was struggling with vZ. Funny thing is, when the TOP pros complain or comment on balance, people always say they that of course they will complain so their race gets buffed and can win more money. So, non top players can't comment on balance and top players can't comment on balance.
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On August 20 2012 22:19 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 21:14 Denzil wrote:On August 20 2012 20:42 CaptainCrush wrote:On August 20 2012 20:40 Denzil wrote:On August 20 2012 19:58 syriuszonito wrote:
Lol, the reduced creep spread and raven buff is a very good move by blizzard and exactly address the problem with zvt atm (that is inefficiency of mid game pushes bcoz of creep spread and a lategame deathball by zerg). If you think that the queen range buff should be reverted so you can again control the game since 5 min with 4 helions then its time for you to wake up and start thinking about new strategies instead of making xXx qq topics on forum about balance. In all seriousness I wonder why Avilo makes these topics instead of trying to improve and incorperate the new changes into his game play. It's not going to change anything. You wonder why because you have likely never played terran. Queen buff should not be reverted completely, but a jump from 3-5 range was too much. It should go back to 4. The creep change is a step in the right direction, but ravens are just a completely different tech path from anything useful in the TvZ early game so that is not the right area to address for this matchup. Unless you're GM or high master I highly doubt a Queen having 2 extra range is the reason you're losing. go improve your macro go improve your game sense go switch up some builds whining about a change that isn't ridiculous seems silly (i'm talking colossus 22 range silly) when you have so many other aspects you can improve to get the win through those means Does Avilo have amazing gamesense? Does he have amazing macro? Has he switched up his builds and tried new things and timings? I can guess the answer to these based on how many times he's written out posts such as these addressing things that don't really matter to him.(don't get me wrong he's a decent semi-pro) Perhaps he should go practice and aquire these things through practicing and working hard instead of writing a new balance post every 3 weeks. Watching IdrA v Bomber at one of the MLGs I can't remember (it was a while ago but still relevant) proved the power of Terran macro and never missing cycles where everytime idrA just managed to destroy the army Bomber had 1 almost surpassing the previous' size ready to send, and the main reason why IdrA managed to deal with it was because of how on with his injects he was and matching Bomber's macro Don't blame an extra 2 range on something that is really irrelevant when you can just improve other aspects and win regardless. Korean Terrans sucked it up and did the above. The result? They're winning. Actually, MVP mentioned a lot of times he was struggling with vZ. Funny thing is, when the TOP pros complain or comment on balance, people always say they that of course they will complain so their race gets buffed and can win more money. So, non top players can't comment on balance and top players can't comment on balance.
A lot of Korean Terrans mentioned they were struggling vZ as I expect they would when they answer isn't clear, when they start seriously implying it's flat out impossible thats when to get worried. I expect the same happened in Brood War when a metagame shift happened there except a lot of them didn't get interviewed and thus get a chance to express their thoughts on Brood War balance.
On a side note Leenock recently said that he was struggling as Zerg, therefore who to believe?
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On August 20 2012 21:13 CaptainCrush wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 20:52 Juisson wrote:On August 20 2012 20:42 CaptainCrush wrote:On August 20 2012 20:40 Denzil wrote:On August 20 2012 19:58 syriuszonito wrote:
Lol, the reduced creep spread and raven buff is a very good move by blizzard and exactly address the problem with zvt atm (that is inefficiency of mid game pushes bcoz of creep spread and a lategame deathball by zerg). If you think that the queen range buff should be reverted so you can again control the game since 5 min with 4 helions then its time for you to wake up and start thinking about new strategies instead of making xXx qq topics on forum about balance. In all seriousness I wonder why Avilo makes these topics instead of trying to improve and incorperate the new changes into his game play. It's not going to change anything. You wonder why because you have likely never played terran. Queen buff should not be reverted completely, but a jump from 3-5 range was too much. It should go back to 4. The creep change is a step in the right direction, but ravens are just a completely different tech path from anything useful in the TvZ early game so that is not the right area to address for this matchup. Like banshees? They can give a terran an edge, but again, with that queen buff they are more of a gimmick than anything dangerous. They can kill a few drones before zerg defends but then they are useless unless the army moves out with no AA. Then once infestors hit they are beyond useless, at that point its kinda like making hydras in a TvZ.
As a Terran player, you have no idea what you're talking about. Banshees are great throughout the game. You can use them to snipe infestors. Especially if infestors are undefended, and you split properly on banshees, they have to fungal + IT (aka removing energy) to get rid of them.
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The Queen buff was stupid cause it made Zergs able to be super greedy AND super economic. I think it's absolutely stupid that Zergs think they should get 3 bases essentially for free, and any kind of pressure that tries to deny that shut off by queens. With that being said, an early raven doesn't work cause it's so much gas that's essentially wasted to clear out creep when gas is the sole limiting factor of Terrans trying to get upgrades/tech up. The difference between a Raven and a Banshee is simply cause even if the Banshee is deflected, the banshee can still not be deadweight, which I can't really say the same about the raven until super late game.
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On August 20 2012 22:01 Denzil wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 21:54 Solarist wrote:On August 20 2012 21:14 Denzil wrote:On August 20 2012 20:42 CaptainCrush wrote:On August 20 2012 20:40 Denzil wrote:On August 20 2012 19:58 syriuszonito wrote:
Lol, the reduced creep spread and raven buff is a very good move by blizzard and exactly address the problem with zvt atm (that is inefficiency of mid game pushes bcoz of creep spread and a lategame deathball by zerg). If you think that the queen range buff should be reverted so you can again control the game since 5 min with 4 helions then its time for you to wake up and start thinking about new strategies instead of making xXx qq topics on forum about balance. In all seriousness I wonder why Avilo makes these topics instead of trying to improve and incorperate the new changes into his game play. It's not going to change anything. You wonder why because you have likely never played terran. Queen buff should not be reverted completely, but a jump from 3-5 range was too much. It should go back to 4. The creep change is a step in the right direction, but ravens are just a completely different tech path from anything useful in the TvZ early game so that is not the right area to address for this matchup. Unless you're GM or high master I highly doubt a Queen having 2 extra range is the reason you're losing. go improve your macro go improve your game sense go switch up some builds whining about a change that isn't ridiculous seems silly (i'm talking colossus 22 range silly) when you have so many other aspects you can improve to get the win through those means Does Avilo have amazing gamesense? Does he have amazing macro? Has he switched up his builds and tried new things and timings? I can guess the answer to these based on how many times he's written out posts such as these addressing things that don't really matter to him.(don't get me wrong he's a decent semi-pro) Perhaps he should go practice and aquire these things through practicing and working hard instead of writing a new balance post every 3 weeks. Watching IdrA v Bomber at one of the MLGs I can't remember (it was a while ago but still relevant) proved the power of Terran macro and never missing cycles where everytime idrA just managed to destroy the army Bomber had 1 almost surpassing the previous' size ready to send, and the main reason why IdrA managed to deal with it was because of how on with his injects he was and matching Bomber's macro Don't blame an extra 2 range on something that is really irrelevant when you can just improve other aspects and win regardless. Korean Terrans sucked it up and did the above. The result? They're winning. Well now i've seen you defend zerg in every thread containing the word Terran, and all you've basicly said is that terran should get better and questioning peoples skill in every form. I gotta ask, what rank GM are you and how many years have you been pro? Every thread as in this one and the one where I defend JRecco's improvement in form as he left school? I'll question your credentials on stating there is a problem first before I show you mine for defending the whine
So in other words you arent high rated, woudent that be easier to say? And stop saying other people should just play better when you arent pro yourself.
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EPT
