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If this thread can't remain civil then we'll have to close it. Thread will be moderated harshly from pg.3 onwards. |
On August 20 2012 12:30 bellsNkeys wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 12:20 Femari wrote:On August 20 2012 12:12 BgSBendeR wrote:
@Avilo, TvZ is fine.
If you spent all that time practising instead of whining on the internet. You might actually become slightly better.
Mvp makes good use of the raven and doesn't complain about TvZ Balance so your entire post is irrelevant.
Lack of whining from the best SC2 player to date, when he never really says anything in the first place, doesn't say much. TvZ isn't broken. Terran is just UP. We have no late game, and therein lies the problem. This buff does not help the late game. Ravens are still not worth what they cost. If Zerg is going to be uncontested, make sure Terran has a viable late game. That solves the TvP issue as well. I don't think it's because Terran doesn't have a late game at all, it's because Zerg gets their ultimate t3 army so much easier and earlier than we do. Typical timing for infestor/corruptor/BL timing now is what 17:00ish minutes? Assuming high level play of course. Now imagine if Terran could realistically have a mass bc/raven/viking composition at the 17:00 minute mark. It would even out the playing field in the late game. So maybe the problem is Zerg just needs to somehow get their late game composition in the actual late game like Terran does.
I agree. One of the better posts of the last 15 or so pages.
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On August 20 2012 12:17 ValhallaDude wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 11:46 Raggamuffinoo wrote:On August 20 2012 11:33 ValhallaDude wrote:On August 20 2012 11:13 Raggamuffinoo wrote:
The raven buff is comparable to the warpprism buff. Blizzard -know- the raven is a useful support unit for lategame terran, they are just giving a slight buff to say "use it more!".
Personally I don't think a buff is even necessary, terran's will be able to recognise when their economy can support 2 or more starports for ravens. Usually after 3 bases and starting their 3/3 upgrades for which ever composition they are utilizing. How is a 42% increase in health comparable to a 10% increase in movement speed? The difference is that a warp prism comes out of a robo, something protoss all ready have from making obs and colossi. To make ravens require a starport with a tech lab. So Terran have a building entirely dedicated to making ravens which costs 200/125. This cost is akin to zerg making a single macro hatchery to make a single unit from at a time, never using larva inject on it. You could imagine how it would be if zerg needed to create an entirely new hatchery just to make one unit at a time. Ravens also take 60 seconds to build and an eternity more to have enough energy to do anything useful. All this to just help fight against broodlord infestor only. If terran somehow survive the massive timing window that making ravens opens them up to, then he needs to rely on his opponent being stupid and creating a massive clump with his broodlords and corruptors. Another point is that once you kill the broodlords and corruptors, what will the ravens do about an ultralisk switch? Absolutely nothing, lol. It is comparable in regard to it being a subtle message from Blizzard saying "try to use this more often". I do not agree with your argument about having to dedicate starports to ravens, with an aggressively expanding terran midgame, you should have ample resources to afford 2 or more starports. Also, terran have the options to buy time. Drops are quite efficient for cost, tanks, bunkers and planetary fortresses with repair also make it a nightmare for zerg to want to commit across the map. theorycraft In regards to zerg splitting, PDD + upgraded vikings give terran the advantage in the air. So long as you are able to avoid gamechanging fungals, you can trade vikings for corruptors all day. If zerg switches to ultras, you already have the infrastructure to deal with it and zerg gives up air superiority so you can go BC or banshee for a clean win. /theorycraft 42% increase in health isn't subtle. Do you even know what that word means? I'm giving solid numbers and actual events. I.e building ravens opens you up for a massive timing window. Ravens take 60 seconds to build from infrastructure that costs more than a hatchery. While you are here spewing your stupidity and claiming everything that disagrees with you is theory crafting. Are you dense?
I am engaging in discussion, not judging anyones opinion. If you feel the need to insult me, it shows your lack of a well reasoned argument. Yes, ravens are expensive. Yes, they take a long time to build. Are they worth it? Much like any spell caster, it is up to the player to use them effectively.
the theorycraft tags were referring to my own words, no one elses.
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On August 20 2012 12:30 BgSBendeR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 12:20 Femari wrote:On August 20 2012 12:12 BgSBendeR wrote:
@Avilo, TvZ is fine.
If you spent all that time practising instead of whining on the internet. You might actually become slightly better.
Mvp makes good use of the raven and doesn't complain about TvZ Balance so your entire post is irrelevant.
Lack of whining from the best SC2 player to date, when he never really says anything in the first place, doesn't say much. TvZ isn't broken. Terran is just UP. We have no late game, and therein lies the problem. This buff does not help the late game. Ravens are still not worth what they cost. If Zerg is going to be uncontested, make sure Terran has a viable late game. That solves the TvP issue as well. Terran has no late game? What in the actual fuck. Terran actually has the best late game army of the 3 races. Mvp beats zerg late game. so yes You guys are whining for no reason. Start actually practising and maybe you won't be as bad.
Fruitdealer won the first GSL. Why was reaper and medivac nerfed right after? Fruitdealer beat Terran players so why didn't Zerg players just do what he did? Maybe they should have just practiced more so they wouldn't be so bad.
You see how using a small sample size to make your point makes you ignorant? When the majority of Terran players (pros included) haven an issue with something it should be addressed. You can't just sit here and be like "hey one guy beat it, wth is everyone else complaining about." And yes, Mvp does lose to late game zerg too. He played late game TvZ beautifully at IEM, yet players he is significantly better than (I will give credit to Vortix and Nerchio, but they are not even close to Mvp's level) gave him a much harder time than he should have.
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On August 20 2012 12:44 BanditX wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 12:30 bellsNkeys wrote:On August 20 2012 12:20 Femari wrote:On August 20 2012 12:12 BgSBendeR wrote:
@Avilo, TvZ is fine.
If you spent all that time practising instead of whining on the internet. You might actually become slightly better.
Mvp makes good use of the raven and doesn't complain about TvZ Balance so your entire post is irrelevant.
Lack of whining from the best SC2 player to date, when he never really says anything in the first place, doesn't say much. TvZ isn't broken. Terran is just UP. We have no late game, and therein lies the problem. This buff does not help the late game. Ravens are still not worth what they cost. If Zerg is going to be uncontested, make sure Terran has a viable late game. That solves the TvP issue as well. I don't think it's because Terran doesn't have a late game at all, it's because Zerg gets their ultimate t3 army so much easier and earlier than we do. Typical timing for infestor/corruptor/BL timing now is what 17:00ish minutes? Assuming high level play of course. Now imagine if Terran could realistically have a mass bc/raven/viking composition at the 17:00 minute mark. It would even out the playing field in the late game. So maybe the problem is Zerg just needs to somehow get their late game composition in the actual late game like Terran does. I agree. One of the better posts of the last 15 or so pages.
Yeah... this makes so much sense. It feels like Zergs get their "late-game" composition in the mid-game atm'.
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On August 20 2012 13:05 bellsNkeys wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 12:30 BgSBendeR wrote:On August 20 2012 12:20 Femari wrote:On August 20 2012 12:12 BgSBendeR wrote:
@Avilo, TvZ is fine.
If you spent all that time practising instead of whining on the internet. You might actually become slightly better.
Mvp makes good use of the raven and doesn't complain about TvZ Balance so your entire post is irrelevant.
Lack of whining from the best SC2 player to date, when he never really says anything in the first place, doesn't say much. TvZ isn't broken. Terran is just UP. We have no late game, and therein lies the problem. This buff does not help the late game. Ravens are still not worth what they cost. If Zerg is going to be uncontested, make sure Terran has a viable late game. That solves the TvP issue as well. Terran has no late game? What in the actual fuck. Terran actually has the best late game army of the 3 races. Mvp beats zerg late game. so yes You guys are whining for no reason. Start actually practising and maybe you won't be as bad. Fruitdealer won the first GSL. Why was reaper and medivac nerfed right after? Fruitdealer beat Terran players so why didn't Zerg players just do what he did? Maybe they should have just practiced more so they wouldn't be so bad. You see how using a small sample size to make your point makes you ignorant? When the majority of Terran players (pros included) haven an issue with something it should be addressed. You can't just sit here and be like "hey one guy beat it, wth is everyone else complaining about." And yes, Mvp does lose to late game zerg too. He played late game TvZ beautifully at IEM, yet players he is significantly better than (I will give credit to Vortix and Nerchio, but they are not even close to Mvp's level) gave him a much harder time than he should have.
If one player is doing it, It simply means that it's possible. Perfection comes from practice. Mvp did not get to where he is today by whining on the internet with every patch.
*Edit typo.
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On August 20 2012 13:08 BgSBendeR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 13:05 bellsNkeys wrote:On August 20 2012 12:30 BgSBendeR wrote:On August 20 2012 12:20 Femari wrote:On August 20 2012 12:12 BgSBendeR wrote:
@Avilo, TvZ is fine.
If you spent all that time practising instead of whining on the internet. You might actually become slightly better.
Mvp makes good use of the raven and doesn't complain about TvZ Balance so your entire post is irrelevant.
Lack of whining from the best SC2 player to date, when he never really says anything in the first place, doesn't say much. TvZ isn't broken. Terran is just UP. We have no late game, and therein lies the problem. This buff does not help the late game. Ravens are still not worth what they cost. If Zerg is going to be uncontested, make sure Terran has a viable late game. That solves the TvP issue as well. Terran has no late game? What in the actual fuck. Terran actually has the best late game army of the 3 races. Mvp beats zerg late game. so yes You guys are whining for no reason. Start actually practising and maybe you won't be as bad. Fruitdealer won the first GSL. Why was reaper and medivac nerfed right after? Fruitdealer beat Terran players so why didn't Zerg players just do what he did? Maybe they should have just practiced more so they wouldn't be so bad. You see how using a small sample size to make your point makes you ignorant? When the majority of Terran players (pros included) haven an issue with something it should be addressed. You can't just sit here and be like "hey one guy beat it, wth is everyone else complaining about." And yes, Mvp does lose to late game zerg too. He played late game TvZ beautifully at IEM, yet players he is significantly better than (I will give credit to Vortix and Nerchio, but they are not even close to Mvp's level) gave him a much harder time than he should have. If one player is doing it, It simply means that it's possible. Perfection comes from practice. Mvp did not get to where he is today by whining on the internet with every patch. *Edit typo.
Right, he only came out and said he was getting destroyed in every TvZ practice game in an interview shortly after the patch.
And your point is still absolutely terrible. TvZ was imbalanced in 2010 (mostly due to horrible maps) and Fruitdealer and Nestea went back to back in GSL, proving Zergs could win. Does that mean Zergs needed to shut up and get better at playing on Steppes/Jungle Basin/Lost Temple? Of course not. One player performing exceptionally well proves nothing, especially when the player in question is the best player in the history of SC2 hands down playing foreigner Zergs.
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On August 20 2012 13:08 BgSBendeR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 13:05 bellsNkeys wrote:On August 20 2012 12:30 BgSBendeR wrote:On August 20 2012 12:20 Femari wrote:On August 20 2012 12:12 BgSBendeR wrote:
@Avilo, TvZ is fine.
If you spent all that time practising instead of whining on the internet. You might actually become slightly better.
Mvp makes good use of the raven and doesn't complain about TvZ Balance so your entire post is irrelevant.
Lack of whining from the best SC2 player to date, when he never really says anything in the first place, doesn't say much. TvZ isn't broken. Terran is just UP. We have no late game, and therein lies the problem. This buff does not help the late game. Ravens are still not worth what they cost. If Zerg is going to be uncontested, make sure Terran has a viable late game. That solves the TvP issue as well. Terran has no late game? What in the actual fuck. Terran actually has the best late game army of the 3 races. Mvp beats zerg late game. so yes You guys are whining for no reason. Start actually practising and maybe you won't be as bad. Fruitdealer won the first GSL. Why was reaper and medivac nerfed right after? Fruitdealer beat Terran players so why didn't Zerg players just do what he did? Maybe they should have just practiced more so they wouldn't be so bad. You see how using a small sample size to make your point makes you ignorant? When the majority of Terran players (pros included) haven an issue with something it should be addressed. You can't just sit here and be like "hey one guy beat it, wth is everyone else complaining about." And yes, Mvp does lose to late game zerg too. He played late game TvZ beautifully at IEM, yet players he is significantly better than (I will give credit to Vortix and Nerchio, but they are not even close to Mvp's level) gave him a much harder time than he should have. If one player is doing it, It simply means that it's possible. Perfection comes from practice. Mvp did not get to where he is today by whining on the internet with every patch. *Edit typo.
You completely ignored the fact that Zerg players whined and moaned even though they were winning so don't sit here and say it's wrong for Terran to do the same. We learned best from our Zerg friends that whining to Blizzard will end up making the game easier for you 
And btw, if guys like drewbie, Cloud, TLO (idk if he even plays Terran anymore) come out and start giving Nestea, Violet, DRG, etc a hard time every Zerg player would have something to say about it.
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On August 20 2012 12:51 Raggamuffinoo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 12:17 ValhallaDude wrote:On August 20 2012 11:46 Raggamuffinoo wrote:On August 20 2012 11:33 ValhallaDude wrote:On August 20 2012 11:13 Raggamuffinoo wrote:
The raven buff is comparable to the warpprism buff. Blizzard -know- the raven is a useful support unit for lategame terran, they are just giving a slight buff to say "use it more!".
Personally I don't think a buff is even necessary, terran's will be able to recognise when their economy can support 2 or more starports for ravens. Usually after 3 bases and starting their 3/3 upgrades for which ever composition they are utilizing. How is a 42% increase in health comparable to a 10% increase in movement speed? The difference is that a warp prism comes out of a robo, something protoss all ready have from making obs and colossi. To make ravens require a starport with a tech lab. So Terran have a building entirely dedicated to making ravens which costs 200/125. This cost is akin to zerg making a single macro hatchery to make a single unit from at a time, never using larva inject on it. You could imagine how it would be if zerg needed to create an entirely new hatchery just to make one unit at a time. Ravens also take 60 seconds to build and an eternity more to have enough energy to do anything useful. All this to just help fight against broodlord infestor only. If terran somehow survive the massive timing window that making ravens opens them up to, then he needs to rely on his opponent being stupid and creating a massive clump with his broodlords and corruptors. Another point is that once you kill the broodlords and corruptors, what will the ravens do about an ultralisk switch? Absolutely nothing, lol. It is comparable in regard to it being a subtle message from Blizzard saying "try to use this more often". I do not agree with your argument about having to dedicate starports to ravens, with an aggressively expanding terran midgame, you should have ample resources to afford 2 or more starports. Also, terran have the options to buy time. Drops are quite efficient for cost, tanks, bunkers and planetary fortresses with repair also make it a nightmare for zerg to want to commit across the map. theorycraft In regards to zerg splitting, PDD + upgraded vikings give terran the advantage in the air. So long as you are able to avoid gamechanging fungals, you can trade vikings for corruptors all day. If zerg switches to ultras, you already have the infrastructure to deal with it and zerg gives up air superiority so you can go BC or banshee for a clean win. /theorycraft 42% increase in health isn't subtle. Do you even know what that word means? I'm giving solid numbers and actual events. I.e building ravens opens you up for a massive timing window. Ravens take 60 seconds to build from infrastructure that costs more than a hatchery. While you are here spewing your stupidity and claiming everything that disagrees with you is theory crafting. Are you dense? I am engaging in discussion, not judging anyones opinion. If you feel the need to insult me, it shows your lack of a well reasoned argument. Yes, ravens are expensive. Yes, they take a long time to build. Are they worth it? Much like any spell caster, it is up to the player to use them effectively. the theorycraft tags were referring to my own words, no one elses.
With regards to your theory crafting...
Ultra switch will kill you if you commit to ravens as they do NOTHING to ultras (and won't have any energy anyway) and even though you have the infrastructure to deal with ultras, you won't have the supply (nor the time to rebuild either) considering you actually have to know which T3 he's building by seeing it before you can build the units to counter it.
BC is unrealistic as they take the timespan of 3 games to build and they get shut down easily once zerg decides they want the air back.
IMO fungal range should be decreased by 1 or 2. The problem with TvZ (and PvZ from what I've heard) is that fungal >>>>> everything else and makes zergs other units exponentially stronger (banelings, broodlords, etc.) by locking down units.
The only problem I could see with decreasing fungal range would be that tanks MIGHT POSSIBLY become too strong in TvZ. But it would be worth testing out imo...
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I can see the buff being useful for Mech Terrans.
As we know, the general way to play mech is:
reactor hellions
banshee (with or without cloak)
then mech-ing hard with expo etc
We also know that with the queen buff, the hellions will do less damage and less likely to kill off creep.
The main problem is banshee. because now zerg uses more queens and banshees are kind of useless when there are that much queens around.
But with a raven, banshee could be used for cleaning up creep just like the void ray+obs in PvZ
Right now the problem with TvZ is how fast Z can get to the hive tech, and terrans are delaying it previously via reactor hellion opening to now bunker rush with hellion support.
From what I see, Mech is as strong if not stronger than the Z deathball, however it takes longer to build and remax and so it is extremely map specific.
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On August 20 2012 13:36 ArchAngelSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 12:51 Raggamuffinoo wrote:On August 20 2012 12:17 ValhallaDude wrote:On August 20 2012 11:46 Raggamuffinoo wrote:On August 20 2012 11:33 ValhallaDude wrote:On August 20 2012 11:13 Raggamuffinoo wrote:
The raven buff is comparable to the warpprism buff. Blizzard -know- the raven is a useful support unit for lategame terran, they are just giving a slight buff to say "use it more!".
Personally I don't think a buff is even necessary, terran's will be able to recognise when their economy can support 2 or more starports for ravens. Usually after 3 bases and starting their 3/3 upgrades for which ever composition they are utilizing. How is a 42% increase in health comparable to a 10% increase in movement speed? The difference is that a warp prism comes out of a robo, something protoss all ready have from making obs and colossi. To make ravens require a starport with a tech lab. So Terran have a building entirely dedicated to making ravens which costs 200/125. This cost is akin to zerg making a single macro hatchery to make a single unit from at a time, never using larva inject on it. You could imagine how it would be if zerg needed to create an entirely new hatchery just to make one unit at a time. Ravens also take 60 seconds to build and an eternity more to have enough energy to do anything useful. All this to just help fight against broodlord infestor only. If terran somehow survive the massive timing window that making ravens opens them up to, then he needs to rely on his opponent being stupid and creating a massive clump with his broodlords and corruptors. Another point is that once you kill the broodlords and corruptors, what will the ravens do about an ultralisk switch? Absolutely nothing, lol. It is comparable in regard to it being a subtle message from Blizzard saying "try to use this more often". I do not agree with your argument about having to dedicate starports to ravens, with an aggressively expanding terran midgame, you should have ample resources to afford 2 or more starports. Also, terran have the options to buy time. Drops are quite efficient for cost, tanks, bunkers and planetary fortresses with repair also make it a nightmare for zerg to want to commit across the map. theorycraft In regards to zerg splitting, PDD + upgraded vikings give terran the advantage in the air. So long as you are able to avoid gamechanging fungals, you can trade vikings for corruptors all day. If zerg switches to ultras, you already have the infrastructure to deal with it and zerg gives up air superiority so you can go BC or banshee for a clean win. /theorycraft 42% increase in health isn't subtle. Do you even know what that word means? I'm giving solid numbers and actual events. I.e building ravens opens you up for a massive timing window. Ravens take 60 seconds to build from infrastructure that costs more than a hatchery. While you are here spewing your stupidity and claiming everything that disagrees with you is theory crafting. Are you dense? I am engaging in discussion, not judging anyones opinion. If you feel the need to insult me, it shows your lack of a well reasoned argument. Yes, ravens are expensive. Yes, they take a long time to build. Are they worth it? Much like any spell caster, it is up to the player to use them effectively. the theorycraft tags were referring to my own words, no one elses. With regards to your theory crafting... Ultra switch will kill you if you commit to ravens as they do NOTHING to ultras (and won't have any energy anyway) and even though you have the infrastructure to deal with ultras, you won't have the supply (nor the time to rebuild either) considering you actually have to know which T3 he's building by seeing it before you can build the units to counter it. BC is unrealistic as they take the timespan of 3 games to build and they get shut down easily once zerg decides they want the air back. IMO fungal range should be decreased by 1 or 2. The problem with TvZ (and PvZ from what I've heard) is that fungal >>>>> everything else and makes zergs other units exponentially stronger (banelings, broodlords, etc.) by locking down units. The only problem I could see with decreasing fungal range would be that tanks MIGHT POSSIBLY become too strong in TvZ. But it would be worth testing out imo...
You should always have a core army for ravens to support, they are a support unit afterall.
Every occasion MVP started raven production he would burn minerals on orbitals, having enough supply is not a problem once you sac 30+ scvs.
BC is just an option.
The infestor is a hot topic at the moment, with news of balance discussion with David Kim at GamesCom (WhiteRa posted on facebook). I believe infestors will recieve a tweak in the next balance patch, be it increased energy requirement per infested terran OR some kind of adjustment to the root effect of fungal.
I do not disagree that ravens are somewhat awkward to fit into a build but, with them only recently being explored in high level matches, I have high hopes for the future of terran lategame.
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As someone who doesn't know shit about tvz from a player perspective, could i ask, what is wrong with tvz atm if you play it the same way mvp does ? Is there a "fix" needed ? isn't the speed buff enough to simply allow that MVP style to work perfectly ( since ravens will be faster than infestors... right ?, i don't remember what the speed increase was ;p ).
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On August 20 2012 14:17 Aterons_toss wrote:
As someone who doesn't know shit about tvz from a player perspective, could i ask, what is wrong with tvz atm if you play it the same way mvp does ? Is there a "fix" needed ? isn't the speed buff enough to simply allow that MVP style to work perfectly ( since ravens will be faster than infestors... right ?, i don't remember what the speed increase was ;p ).
Mvp's Raven transitions in IEM involved adding 2 Starports with 2 tech labs in the mid game, getting Raven starting energy and seeker missile upgrades and slowly building up his Raven count 2 at a time while still playing with his mid game army. This allowed him to have Ravens ready for the late game as they were building up for a while, I think It's definitely something worth looking into. ( Watch Mvp vs Nerchio on Atlantis Spaceship as a prime example of this )
I don't think adding 2 ravens at a time while still producing your marine/marauder/medivac/tank is that punishable at all if you know how to defend properly. It would need to be tested in more than one tournament to see if it can consistently work though.
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United States178 Posts
I feel I've figured out TvZ recently.. Usually when I lose its because I make a mistake w/ an engagement, or I let them get their brood/infestor combo without being prepared. I feel its rather even, BUT TvP is a different story...
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On August 19 2012 11:19 blade55555 wrote:
Ya they are and Korean terrans are saying tvz is fine.
Who are these Koreans you are talking about? Cause i can only find Koreans who DONT say it's fine.
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On August 20 2012 16:43 Callahan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2012 11:19 blade55555 wrote:
Ya they are and Korean terrans are saying tvz is fine. Who are these Koreans you are talking about? Cause i can only find Koreans who DONT say it's fine.
I would also like to know which koreans you are talking about. Gogo.
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Ravens is horrible to manage and this slight will make them easier to control, how does that adress the problem?
Easier to control, easier to dodge fungals or get away. Does this adress the issue you see in a real way that doesn't make T get 100% win rate? Yes, it does.
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On August 20 2012 16:43 Callahan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2012 11:19 blade55555 wrote:
Ya they are and Korean terrans are saying tvz is fine. Who are these Koreans you are talking about? Cause i can only find Koreans who DONT say it's fine.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352335
Is Terran okay against Zerg now?
I think we’re over it. In late game, battlecruisers supported by ravens can beat Zerg. The solution has been found.
Pretty sure someone else came out and said it was fine too. Maybe MVP.
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On August 20 2012 11:56 KawaiiRice wrote:
I wish we could just get irradiate back to replace HSM.
Terran's only aoe spell is HSM which is a projectile costs a lot and takes time blah blah etc.
Protoss has storm which is instant and DOT
zerg's spell is also instant DOT and root.
replacing hsm with irradiate would make it more in line with the other races/useful overall/easier to balance and also more interesting to watch in general (mass hsm is like KABOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMM, well, game over).
Good point I have to say~
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The problem with zerg is the infestor. It a "one unit to kill them all", which is problematic. Fungal Growth does an insane amount of damage and keeps the unit in place. Infested Terran spell suddenly increases the zerg army size by a ton.
Edit: Giving Terran their 60 damage siege TANKS back would solve a lot of problems. I don't think zerg would still be able to do that double FE stuff.
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We had irradiate. It was renamed Snipe (spell: Choose target zerg unit. End it's life) with the exception that it wasn't aoe and instead of having a set duration the actual duration was 'as fast as you could shift click'. We all know what happened to that.
And Kawaii is totally wrong, Ghosts have hte single most damaging ability in the game: Launch Nuclear Missile! Jeez do you even play Terran at a high level?
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EPT
