• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:49
CET 01:49
KST 09:49
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy5ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289
Community News
Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool38Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win42026 KungFu Cup Announcement6BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled12Blizzard Classic Cup - Tastosis announced as captains18
StarCraft 2
General
Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Potential Updates Coming to the SC2 CN Server Weekly Cups (March 2-8): ByuN overcomes PvT block Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw? Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win
Tourneys
World University TeamLeague (500$+) | Signups Open RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Team League Season 10 KSL Week 87
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 517 Distant Threat Mutation # 516 Specter of Death
Brood War
General
Soulkey's decision to leave C9 JaeDong's form before ASL BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos ASL21 General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues ASL Season 21 LIVESTREAM with English Commentary [BSL22] Open Qualifiers & Ladder Tours Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Cricket [SPORT] Formula 1 Discussion Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6515 users

[D] The raven buff does not address TvZ issues - Page 48

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 46 47 48 All
If this thread can't remain civil then we'll have to close it. Thread will be moderated harshly from pg.3 onwards.
plogamer
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Canada3132 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-23 15:13:58
November 23 2012 15:11 GMT
#941
On November 24 2012 00:06 ElBlanco wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2012 23:52 plogamer wrote:
On November 23 2012 23:24 ElBlanco wrote:
On November 23 2012 23:03 plogamer wrote:
On November 23 2012 23:00 Ghanburighan wrote:
On November 23 2012 22:49 ElBlanco wrote:
On September 05 2012 18:05 Ghanburighan wrote:
On September 05 2012 09:36 blade55555 wrote:
On September 05 2012 09:34 OpTiKDream wrote:
Either way blizzard reconsidered their thoughts about buffing raven + tumor nerf. This should be closed now since the changes wont occur anyways.


Ya all this thread is now is a QQ thread and I do agree changes aren't happening anymore, and hots beta is going to be out soon anyway.


If this is closed, there will be another QQ thread. Like there was one before this (Luckyfool), and 1 before that (1 month later), and 1 before that (where did all the terrans go), etc.

Let's face it, non Mvp/Taeja terrans are pretty unhappy about the status quo (unless they switched to Z like me and have fun mucking about like mad).


Of all the arguments ever made about terran being underpowered and hard to use this has to be the most common and frankly nonsensical one of the lot. Terran have always had the most variety of players performing well at the top level. Even right now at the height of all these discussions about terran being terrible they have the best representation in both code S and code A (though admittedly performed slightly worse than zerg overall in code S).

If anything zerg and protoss are the ones who have historically relied on a handful of players to hold the race up. Hell take out MC and protoss in WOL is a sad, sad state of affairs.

Anyway i've just switched to terran after having played zerg and protoss and so far i'm having a great time. I'm still a high diamond/low masters player. I guess i just haven't reached the 1-2% of players where terran are struggling (they are fine diamond and below and they are fine in Korea, the only place they apparently struggle is in high masters and GM outside of Korea).

This issue has been massively overblown and that's why the balance discussion has gotten so muddied. If anything the focus should just be on changing things that make the game less interesting like fungal growth stopping units. Instead people just want to whinge about imbalance.


Wait, you replied to me but I don't know which of my statements you so vehemently disagree with. Want to clarify? Did you mean that it's fun for you to play TvZ? Do tell me more about your experiences climbing the ladder.


A combative forum poster who assumes every quote is a vehement disagreement, replying to a hypocritical post about how Terran balance is overblown while overblowing Zerg and Protoss balance; especially by quoting "history". Urk, two wrong, blah blah.


Where have i overblown zerg and protoss balance? I don't think balance for any race is in a bad spot right now.

My post was mostly in reply to the Taeja/MVP comment which is more just a general sentiment i have been reading for months.


If anything zerg and protoss are the ones who have historically relied on a handful of players to hold the race up.


Add the fact that back then, even if Terran could be considered OP, the games were usually not as one-sided as they are now. Or do you deny that?


What i said there was 100% fact. Try this, go to the GSL page where they list the players who have come in the top 4 in the GSL. It's terran who has much more variety than the other 2 races. This isn't me saying they are overpowered, it just so happens that they are the players who performed well. I just don't understand where this argument came from that terran rely on only a few players to win (i.e taeja and MVP) when historically they are the race that has most bucked this trend.

I don't think the meta-game is one sided now at all so i'm not sure what exactly you're getting at. Terran is performing worse against zerg overall but there has been plenty of competitive games just as there was when terran was winning. I don't think balance is bad now at all. If anything the big issue is more the way certain matchups play out (namely PvZ) and certain units making the meta game a little bit stale.


Do you honestly not see that Zergs overwhelming crush Terrans (when they win) almost all the time? I'm talking about how each individual games play out - it wasn't as one sided as it is currently.

And what people say about Taeja and MVP also seem to be factual.

/edit

I'm sure you'll be watching some tourneys, maybe dreamhack that is playing right now. Keep an eye on ZvTs and how things play out.. then again, foreign Zergs beating korean Terrans shouldn't be treated as an indication of balance. But whatever, let's see how it goes.
ElBlanco
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia140 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-23 15:25:34
November 23 2012 15:24 GMT
#942
On November 24 2012 00:11 plogamer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2012 00:06 ElBlanco wrote:
On November 23 2012 23:52 plogamer wrote:
On November 23 2012 23:24 ElBlanco wrote:
On November 23 2012 23:03 plogamer wrote:
On November 23 2012 23:00 Ghanburighan wrote:
On November 23 2012 22:49 ElBlanco wrote:
On September 05 2012 18:05 Ghanburighan wrote:
On September 05 2012 09:36 blade55555 wrote:
On September 05 2012 09:34 OpTiKDream wrote:
Either way blizzard reconsidered their thoughts about buffing raven + tumor nerf. This should be closed now since the changes wont occur anyways.


Ya all this thread is now is a QQ thread and I do agree changes aren't happening anymore, and hots beta is going to be out soon anyway.


If this is closed, there will be another QQ thread. Like there was one before this (Luckyfool), and 1 before that (1 month later), and 1 before that (where did all the terrans go), etc.

Let's face it, non Mvp/Taeja terrans are pretty unhappy about the status quo (unless they switched to Z like me and have fun mucking about like mad).


Of all the arguments ever made about terran being underpowered and hard to use this has to be the most common and frankly nonsensical one of the lot. Terran have always had the most variety of players performing well at the top level. Even right now at the height of all these discussions about terran being terrible they have the best representation in both code S and code A (though admittedly performed slightly worse than zerg overall in code S).

If anything zerg and protoss are the ones who have historically relied on a handful of players to hold the race up. Hell take out MC and protoss in WOL is a sad, sad state of affairs.

Anyway i've just switched to terran after having played zerg and protoss and so far i'm having a great time. I'm still a high diamond/low masters player. I guess i just haven't reached the 1-2% of players where terran are struggling (they are fine diamond and below and they are fine in Korea, the only place they apparently struggle is in high masters and GM outside of Korea).

This issue has been massively overblown and that's why the balance discussion has gotten so muddied. If anything the focus should just be on changing things that make the game less interesting like fungal growth stopping units. Instead people just want to whinge about imbalance.


Wait, you replied to me but I don't know which of my statements you so vehemently disagree with. Want to clarify? Did you mean that it's fun for you to play TvZ? Do tell me more about your experiences climbing the ladder.


A combative forum poster who assumes every quote is a vehement disagreement, replying to a hypocritical post about how Terran balance is overblown while overblowing Zerg and Protoss balance; especially by quoting "history". Urk, two wrong, blah blah.


Where have i overblown zerg and protoss balance? I don't think balance for any race is in a bad spot right now.

My post was mostly in reply to the Taeja/MVP comment which is more just a general sentiment i have been reading for months.


If anything zerg and protoss are the ones who have historically relied on a handful of players to hold the race up.


Add the fact that back then, even if Terran could be considered OP, the games were usually not as one-sided as they are now. Or do you deny that?


What i said there was 100% fact. Try this, go to the GSL page where they list the players who have come in the top 4 in the GSL. It's terran who has much more variety than the other 2 races. This isn't me saying they are overpowered, it just so happens that they are the players who performed well. I just don't understand where this argument came from that terran rely on only a few players to win (i.e taeja and MVP) when historically they are the race that has most bucked this trend.

I don't think the meta-game is one sided now at all so i'm not sure what exactly you're getting at. Terran is performing worse against zerg overall but there has been plenty of competitive games just as there was when terran was winning. I don't think balance is bad now at all. If anything the big issue is more the way certain matchups play out (namely PvZ) and certain units making the meta game a little bit stale.


Do you honestly not see that Zergs overwhelming crush Terrans (when they win) almost all the time? I'm talking about how each individual games play out - it wasn't as one sided as it is currently.

And what people say about Taeja and MVP also seem to be factual.

/edit

I'm sure you'll be watching some tourneys, maybe dreamhack that is playing right now. Keep an eye on ZvTs and how things play out.. then again, foreign Zergs beating korean Terrans shouldn't be treated as an indication of balance. But whatever, let's see how it goes.


Well yes i disagree with that premise and it's almost impossible to prove either way without citing specific examples. The Taeja/MVP stuff is not factual, you just ignored what i said regarding it. It especially makes no sense in light of what is happening in the GSL this season.

I think it's a silly point anyway. Terran also seem to crush protoss whenever they win (have you been watching code A?). That tends to be the nature of SC2, things tend to snowball and it ends up with one side getting crushed. This isn't really exclusive to one matchup.

Again though the issue shouldn't be so much about balance but rather the effect that the infestor has on the matchup and on SC2 in general and how that can be fixed (the raven buff is no the answer imo).

Edit:Can't watch the tournaments on now unfortunately. I'm on night duty at the hospital at 2 in the morning lol. Shame as i was looking forward to it.
Prev 1 46 47 48 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
The PiG Daily
21:20
Best Games
Solar vs Cure
herO vs TBD
PiGStarcraft444
LiquipediaDiscussion
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
20:00
FSL showmatch Nachoz vs all
Liquipedia
LAN Event
16:00
StarCraft Madness Day 2
Airneanach63
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft444
RuFF_SC2 131
SpeCial 80
Nathanias 78
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 5023
Artosis 768
Shuttle 365
NaDa 26
Dota 2
monkeys_forever394
Other Games
summit1g12045
JimRising 366
Mew2King155
ViBE136
Maynarde88
UpATreeSC35
JuggernautJason12
deth8
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1208
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream44
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 81
• musti20045 38
• davetesta20
• Hinosc 17
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21391
Other Games
• Scarra2353
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
8h 11m
Afreeca Starleague
9h 11m
Sharp vs Scan
Rain vs Mong
Wardi Open
11h 11m
Monday Night Weeklies
16h 11m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 9h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 9h
Soulkey vs Ample
JyJ vs sSak
Replay Cast
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
hero vs YSC
Larva vs Shine
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
KCM Race Survival
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
WardiTV Team League
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV Team League
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Cure vs Zoun
herO vs Rogue
WardiTV Team League
5 days
Platinum Heroes Events
5 days
BSL
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
ByuN vs Maru
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
WardiTV Team League
6 days
BSL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-22
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 1
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
NationLESS Cup
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

2026 Changsha Offline CUP
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.