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On August 15 2012 10:18 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 10:16 Roflhue wrote:
Like many others have said, it is just a neat trick that has no real benefit in a game's outcome. Sure it does make you "feel" better by getting extra 20-30 minerals in the first 30 seconds of the game, but seriously....... Could be really important in PvP or ZvZ to have your initial structures and stuff done 5-10 seconds sooner.
Yeah, if it could move timings 5-10 seconds it would become a necessary part of most pros openers. But as the moment, we only have theoretical calculations showing that kind of time differences.
We would need several (decently skilled) people to try to get their rax/gateway/we out as fast as possible, on the same position on the same map. Both with and without this trick. If there is a big difference in the best time (5+ seconds), then we need to look into it more.
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Canada13389 Posts
On August 15 2012 10:25 Picklebread wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 10:16 Roflhue wrote:
Like many others have said, it is just a neat trick that has no real benefit in a game's outcome. Sure it does make you "feel" better by getting extra 20-30 minerals in the first 30 seconds of the game, but seriously....... What about 6/7 pools ? ._.
They will be better now.
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this might actually be a good way to train apm'ing without mindless spamming at the beginning of each game... and if its not patched away it could make pro level openings and early games alot more interesting... though, would probally make pvp worse lulz
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Now the problem with Blizzard trying to fix this is that it's an inherent property of the move command. They have three options.
One: Buff mining as a whole so workers don't decelerate before stopping. Obviously this is the worst solution as it will mess up rates of mining at the pro level substantially, forcing players to rework their timings completely.
Two: Change unit movement so that the units decelerate faster before coming to a halt. At the same rate as workers stop when they stop to mine. Of course this is also a poor option as now, shift clicking workers around bases will make you slow down and get damaged.
Three: Do nothing. This is the best option. This mineral trick rewards good use of APM in the early game but it's nowhere near significant enough to warrant changing how the game works.
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This also works with mules, not sure if anyone mentioned that..
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On August 15 2012 10:50 neobowman wrote:
Now the problem with Blizzard trying to fix this is that it's an inherent property of the move command. They have three options.
One: Buff mining as a whole so workers don't decelerate before stopping. Obviously this is the worst solution as it will mess up rates of mining at the pro level substantially, forcing players to rework their timings completely.
Two: Change unit movement so that the units decelerate faster before coming to a halt. At the same rate as workers stop when they stop to mine. Of course this is also a poor option as now, shift clicking workers around bases will make you slow down and get damaged.
Three: Do nothing. This is the best option. This mineral trick rewards good use of APM in the early game but it's nowhere near significant enough to warrant changing how the game works.
four:
if (distance between waypoint and queued mining < 1 unit)
{
add deceleration to waypoint;
}
this is pseudocode but fixed with no side effects. Hire me blizzard.
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I see people talking only about scvs...does this work only for terrans or p and z as well?
So, can someone confirm if this is actually a good thing to do? I know people say it works...but withi all these apm intensive work.... and the guy who put up a barracks at 1:34, can someone confirm if this makes a huge difference?
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On August 15 2012 10:50 neobowman wrote:
Now the problem with Blizzard trying to fix this is that it's an inherent property of the move command. They have three options.
One: Buff mining as a whole so workers don't decelerate before stopping. Obviously this is the worst solution as it will mess up rates of mining at the pro level substantially, forcing players to rework their timings completely.
Two: Change unit movement so that the units decelerate faster before coming to a halt. At the same rate as workers stop when they stop to mine. Of course this is also a poor option as now, shift clicking workers around bases will make you slow down and get damaged.
Three: Do nothing. This is the best option. This mineral trick rewards good use of APM in the early game but it's nowhere near significant enough to warrant changing how the game works.
i'm fine with 2, players should be punished for waypointing and not manually microing their worker away
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On August 15 2012 11:01 Fyodor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 10:50 neobowman wrote:
Now the problem with Blizzard trying to fix this is that it's an inherent property of the move command. They have three options.
One: Buff mining as a whole so workers don't decelerate before stopping. Obviously this is the worst solution as it will mess up rates of mining at the pro level substantially, forcing players to rework their timings completely.
Two: Change unit movement so that the units decelerate faster before coming to a halt. At the same rate as workers stop when they stop to mine. Of course this is also a poor option as now, shift clicking workers around bases will make you slow down and get damaged.
Three: Do nothing. This is the best option. This mineral trick rewards good use of APM in the early game but it's nowhere near significant enough to warrant changing how the game works. four: if (distance between waypoint and queued mining < 1 unit) { add deceleration to waypoint; } this is pseudocode but fixed with no side effects. Hire me blizzard.
please god, just leave it alone.
Things like moving a probe into position to block ling runbys would become much harder without this.
ex. rclick, shift+rclick, shift+h
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please modify the OP. It is not even close to 24% encrease stop spreading misinformation. Other than that its a cool trick.
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Is it still more efficient to spend your APM on pairing up workers on the closer patches? This may be a good technique for when the first couple workers are building, but when you have 1 worker on every patch I feel like it is more efficient to start pairing up workers on the close patches. It would be interesting to see what nets you more minerals.
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Question is not how?
but for how long?
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I hope it gets patches somehow asap. A lot of you are saying how the player that does this deserves the minerals, but the truth is that this worker micro is not hard at all. It doesn't promote good play, good play should and is something that requires hard work and practice. Not something that can be learned within 3 games.
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I don't think this is at all the right way to distinguish between the top tier pros and the rest, not because it's a bug or anything like that, I would happily support highly apm intensive micro tricks and things like that which help split the top pros from the rest, or even a certain build which requires an incredibly micro intensive series of events to pull off.
But if all the top players base their builds off having the 100 extra minerals that microing 5 workers gives then suddenly anyone who doesn't have the apm to micro their workers like this suddenly can't use those builds anymore. Currently, anyone with decent apm can pull off the first few minutes of a pros build, and this is why a lot of people watch the top tournaments or read strategy articles, so they can steal the builds and improve. If suddenly all the players in GSL are using builds that rely on being able to micro their workers like this then suddenly it's almost like the first 2-3 minutes of the game are played on a different patch from anyone who doesn't have the apm to micro their workers like this as all the building timings will be different.
I wouldn't mind it if it was only for certain builds or something, but if every player of every race does it for every build, then suddenly the timings of starcraft which are normally constant, such as the timing of a 6 pool, or the timing of a 4 gate, are now subjective based on the ability to micro workers, and i don't think starcraft would benefit from this subjectiveness.
I feel it's almost like saying to a chess player "if you can solve complex math problems while you play, we will give you a free move every five turns."
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Isn't this trick old? I remember MVP saying something about this is an old interview.
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On August 15 2012 11:19 sluggaslamoo wrote:
Question is not how?
but for how long?
Already been around for almost two years. Sockfolder's mineral boosting 2.0 video needs to be added to the OP.
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On August 15 2012 11:23 Wrathsc2 wrote:
I hope it gets patches somehow asap. A lot of you are saying how the player that does this deserves the minerals, but the truth is that this worker micro is not hard at all. It doesn't promote good play, good play should and is something that requires hard work and practice. Not something that can be learned within 3 games.
How is this any different from players at higher level pairing up workers? If you can't keep up your macro behind this trick, it's going to show up regardless of how well you're able to perform this. This rewards high APM, nothing more. Maybe we should patch marine splitting, or individual blink stalker micro, or magic boxing mutas too?
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really hope this doesn't make 6 pool even better
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Completely viable at the highest skill set and definitely unique, good stuff. ...always good to dream
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I found and did this trick a long time ago. I was trying to boost the economy etc etc. But the reality is that this trick is irrelevant. Believe me. There is no real gain by doing that. You can´t do it on every worker, there is no time to do it. And the probability of missclick is very high. So it is very easy to delay your minning instead of boost it.
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EPT
