On August 15 2012 05:50 bgx wrote: I think Elephant represents well the twisted community we have here. Its transitional period, if you want to avoid elephant whether it is icon or animal simply don't talk/think about it. It will be all gone sooner or later. When people see Jaedong for a hundreth time they will familarize with him. So with other Kespa players, and soon "them" will be "ours" (for sc2 people).
But elephant puns are so much fun! :o
I honestly enjoy this rivalry a lot, it adds a lot of spice to these recent Korean tournaments. And the KeSPA players are only going to improve in the next 3-6 months.
Of course each group wants to hold elephant for themselves as a weapon
Majority didnt really say anything bad when Kespas were falling and elephant was oh so clever joke. However now when it can be a double edged sword its not so obvious to let it go, because in the end Elephant idea is only being materialized when Kespa player wins over GSL player so it is kind of remembering everyone about article.
I like the rivalry too, when its in good mood, and it DOES NOT matter whether elephant funny picture comes up (read: funny) or simply words or sentences. Its all tools of communication. You can aswell spam elephant pictures or say "U FAG" and use it as harm.
I personnaly find the whole elephant story and the people butthurt about it to be rather funny
This. The elephant article was probably one of the all-time low points of the TL writing staff, but the butthurt surrounding it is just as silly. Just root for your fav players people (fuck yeah effort!)
There wouldn't be any butthurt surrounding it if people didn't keep bringing it up as if it held any weight.
Conversely, people wouldnt keep bringing it up if there wasn't so much butthurt either. Such is life. :p
So the primary motivation for bringing it up is to troll and annoy people, right? Rather than being for any semblance of a productive reason >_>
Dude, you take this stuff way too seriously. Besides, this rivalry between GSL and KESPA players is probably the best thing that happened in Korea for the SC2 scene.
I'm all for a good, healthy rivalry. What I'm not for is a rivalry in which one side just repeatedly brings up how shitty and outclassed the other side is/will be.
this, and the main thing I'm against is the blatant mod bias that's been happening ever since the elephent thread. Where bans/warning are very liberally handed out for anyone bashing on Bw or defending SC2, while the people bashing SC2 almost never get banned and very rarely even warned. But again sorry for the off topic. Really glad to see JD going through, he's probably the one kespa player I really actually wanna see dominate.
mods here came from sc1. obviously shouldn't be biased at all but think about how they feel towards bw bashing especially.
I understand how they feel, and I agree BW should be given the respect it deserves. Even though I didn't even know there was such a thing as esports or pro gaming till SC2 beta, I've played SC1 since before BW, I remember being in middle school and saving up allowance money to buy BW the day it came out, it was a great game and a part of many peoples childhoods. But it's still very unprofessional of the mods to have the blatant bias that they do, and I really hope it's something that gets fixed.
What I've come to notice is that the mods do, in fact, do a good job. Often times when someone feels they've been dealt injustice, it is really that they are looking at it through tinted glasses. Sometimes the person you think was bashing SC2 was not in fact bashing SC2 at all. When it comes to TL, some bias towards BW is only good. People who were not there to experience BW throughout the years should also remain silent if they don't have anything good to say. BW should always, and I think it always will, have a special place on TL.
This. The elephant article was probably one of the all-time low points of the TL writing staff, but the butthurt surrounding it is just as silly. Just root for your fav players people (fuck yeah effort!)
There wouldn't be any butthurt surrounding it if people didn't keep bringing it up as if it held any weight.
Conversely, people wouldnt keep bringing it up if there wasn't so much butthurt either. Such is life. :p
So the primary motivation for bringing it up is to troll and annoy people, right? Rather than being for any semblance of a productive reason >_>
Dude, you take this stuff way too seriously. Besides, this rivalry between GSL and KESPA players is probably the best thing that happened in Korea for the SC2 scene.
I'm all for a good, healthy rivalry. What I'm not for is a rivalry in which one side just repeatedly brings up how shitty and outclassed the other side is/will be.
this, and the main thing I'm against is the blatant mod bias that's been happening ever since the elephent thread. Where bans/warning are very liberally handed out for anyone bashing on Bw or defending SC2, while the people bashing SC2 almost never get banned and very rarely even warned. But again sorry for the off topic. Really glad to see JD going through, he's probably the one kespa player I really actually wanna see dominate.
mods here came from sc1. obviously shouldn't be biased at all but think about how they feel towards bw bashing especially.
I understand how they feel, and I agree BW should be given the respect it deserves. Even though I didn't even know there was such a thing as esports or pro gaming till SC2 beta, I've played SC1 since before BW, I remember being in middle school and saving up allowance money to buy BW the day it came out, it was a great game and a part of many peoples childhoods. But it's still very unprofessional of the mods to have the blatant bias that they do, and I really hope it's something that gets fixed.
What I've come to notice is that the mods do, in fact, do a good job. Often times when someone feels they've been dealt injustice, it is really that they are looking at it through tinted glasses. Sometimes the person you think was bashing SC2 was not in fact bashing SC2 at all. When it comes to TL, some bias towards BW is only good. People who were not there to experience BW throughout the years should also remain silent if they don't have anything good to say. BW should always, and I think it always will, have a special place on TL.
But that's exactly what bias is. Telling people who weren't around during BW "well you shouldn't talk." That's the exact problem, and you don't seem to comprehend it. And now if you look there are far more people bashing SC2 as there are bashing BW, yet far more people defending SC2 that get bans/warnings for doing so. That IS bias. Often times when someone feels that something they are involved in (as you are on the BW side of arguments) are fair, they are looking at it through tinted glasses.
There wouldn't be any butthurt surrounding it if people didn't keep bringing it up as if it held any weight.
Conversely, people wouldnt keep bringing it up if there wasn't so much butthurt either. Such is life. :p
So the primary motivation for bringing it up is to troll and annoy people, right? Rather than being for any semblance of a productive reason >_>
Dude, you take this stuff way too seriously. Besides, this rivalry between GSL and KESPA players is probably the best thing that happened in Korea for the SC2 scene.
I'm all for a good, healthy rivalry. What I'm not for is a rivalry in which one side just repeatedly brings up how shitty and outclassed the other side is/will be.
this, and the main thing I'm against is the blatant mod bias that's been happening ever since the elephent thread. Where bans/warning are very liberally handed out for anyone bashing on Bw or defending SC2, while the people bashing SC2 almost never get banned and very rarely even warned. But again sorry for the off topic. Really glad to see JD going through, he's probably the one kespa player I really actually wanna see dominate.
mods here came from sc1. obviously shouldn't be biased at all but think about how they feel towards bw bashing especially.
I understand how they feel, and I agree BW should be given the respect it deserves. Even though I didn't even know there was such a thing as esports or pro gaming till SC2 beta, I've played SC1 since before BW, I remember being in middle school and saving up allowance money to buy BW the day it came out, it was a great game and a part of many peoples childhoods. But it's still very unprofessional of the mods to have the blatant bias that they do, and I really hope it's something that gets fixed.
What I've come to notice is that the mods do, in fact, do a good job. Often times when someone feels they've been dealt injustice, it is really that they are looking at it through tinted glasses. Sometimes the person you think was bashing SC2 was not in fact bashing SC2 at all. When it comes to TL, some bias towards BW is only good. People who were not there to experience BW throughout the years should also remain silent if they don't have anything good to say. BW should always, and I think it always will, have a special place on TL.
But that's exactly what bias is. Telling people who weren't around during BW "well you shouldn't talk." That's the exact problem, and you don't seem to comprehend it. And now if you look there are far more people bashing SC2 as there are bashing BW, yet far more people defending SC2 that get bans/warnings for doing so. That IS bias. Often times when someone feels that something they are involved in (as you are on the BW side of arguments) are fair, they are looking at it through tinted glasses.
I didn't say there is no bias. I said when it comes to TL, some bias towards BW is in fact good. Do you see how easily you misread what I wrote? That is my point exactly. And you say there are far more people bashing SC as there are bashing BW and getting bans/warnings for doing so. I disagree. Now what? Do you have any kind of evidence to support your claim? You are claiming this purely on how you feel, and I dare say you are not the most objective person to make such observations. In reality though, I do not disagree. You might very well be right. But the difference isn't particularly big. Moreover, as I said, some bias is only good. It'll remind people to be respectful of how it all started.
This. The elephant article was probably one of the all-time low points of the TL writing staff, but the butthurt surrounding it is just as silly. Just root for your fav players people (fuck yeah effort!)
There wouldn't be any butthurt surrounding it if people didn't keep bringing it up as if it held any weight.
Conversely, people wouldnt keep bringing it up if there wasn't so much butthurt either. Such is life. :p
So the primary motivation for bringing it up is to troll and annoy people, right? Rather than being for any semblance of a productive reason >_>
Dude, you take this stuff way too seriously. Besides, this rivalry between GSL and KESPA players is probably the best thing that happened in Korea for the SC2 scene.
I'm all for a good, healthy rivalry. What I'm not for is a rivalry in which one side just repeatedly brings up how shitty and outclassed the other side is/will be.
this, and the main thing I'm against is the blatant mod bias that's been happening ever since the elephent thread. Where bans/warning are very liberally handed out for anyone bashing on Bw or defending SC2, while the people bashing SC2 almost never get banned and very rarely even warned. But again sorry for the off topic. Really glad to see JD going through, he's probably the one kespa player I really actually wanna see dominate.
mods here came from sc1. obviously shouldn't be biased at all but think about how they feel towards bw bashing especially.
I understand how they feel, and I agree BW should be given the respect it deserves. Even though I didn't even know there was such a thing as esports or pro gaming till SC2 beta, I've played SC1 since before BW, I remember being in middle school and saving up allowance money to buy BW the day it came out, it was a great game and a part of many peoples childhoods. But it's still very unprofessional of the mods to have the blatant bias that they do, and I really hope it's something that gets fixed.
What I've come to notice is that the mods do, in fact, do a good job. Often times when someone feels they've been dealt injustice, it is really that they are looking at it through tinted glasses. Sometimes the person you think was bashing SC2 was not in fact bashing SC2 at all. When it comes to TL, some bias towards BW is only good. People who were not there to experience BW throughout the years should also remain silent if they don't have anything good to say. BW should always, and I think it always will, have a special place on TL.
"I'm biased and I have the right to be biased because I've been here longer and some of the guys running the place are also biased. Anyone who doesn't like this bias should shut up and respect me." That's paraphrasing and exaggeration of course, and you seem to be one of the more reasonable BW guys, but nonetheless even your bias shines through. This is not a good thing, and that's exactly why I don't like mentions of the elephant, they make me feel less welcome here, like a 2nd class citizen or something. I hope this whole Kespa <-> Gom BS will be gone in a few months and we'll be enjoying watching good games as one community without one half telling the other how it was done back in the old days.
On August 15 2012 05:50 bgx wrote: I think Elephant represents well the twisted community we have here. Its transitional period, if you want to avoid elephant whether it is icon or animal simply don't talk/think about it. It will be all gone sooner or later. When people see Jaedong for a hundreth time they will familarize with him. So with other Kespa players, and soon "them" will be "ours" (for sc2 people).
But elephant puns are so much fun! :o
I honestly enjoy this rivalry a lot, it adds a lot of spice to these recent Korean tournaments. And the KeSPA players are only going to improve in the next 3-6 months.
I have no doubt that the absolute top players in BW will find there place at the top of the SCII foodchain, but I think the playing field will even-out in 3 to 6 months. Although it will require the GSL teams to work hard and tighten up there training schedule.
I think KeSPA players will lose some "unfair" advantages they have right now.
At this moment there is hardly any information available on KeSPA players. If player KeSPA X is preparing to play GSL player Y he can just google and find a bunch of information and create a game-plan. GSL players can only prepare vs Race and on Map. KeSPA player, right now, feel no pressure. They're expected to lose their matches versus GSL players, while GSL players can only lose.
A lot of people coming over from BW seem to have this idea that every SCII player is a BW reject. This is untrue. Some of these players we're still developing or they never played BW at all. I think some players might cause up-set. We'll see.
There wouldn't be any butthurt surrounding it if people didn't keep bringing it up as if it held any weight.
Conversely, people wouldnt keep bringing it up if there wasn't so much butthurt either. Such is life. :p
So the primary motivation for bringing it up is to troll and annoy people, right? Rather than being for any semblance of a productive reason >_>
Dude, you take this stuff way too seriously. Besides, this rivalry between GSL and KESPA players is probably the best thing that happened in Korea for the SC2 scene.
I'm all for a good, healthy rivalry. What I'm not for is a rivalry in which one side just repeatedly brings up how shitty and outclassed the other side is/will be.
this, and the main thing I'm against is the blatant mod bias that's been happening ever since the elephent thread. Where bans/warning are very liberally handed out for anyone bashing on Bw or defending SC2, while the people bashing SC2 almost never get banned and very rarely even warned. But again sorry for the off topic. Really glad to see JD going through, he's probably the one kespa player I really actually wanna see dominate.
mods here came from sc1. obviously shouldn't be biased at all but think about how they feel towards bw bashing especially.
I understand how they feel, and I agree BW should be given the respect it deserves. Even though I didn't even know there was such a thing as esports or pro gaming till SC2 beta, I've played SC1 since before BW, I remember being in middle school and saving up allowance money to buy BW the day it came out, it was a great game and a part of many peoples childhoods. But it's still very unprofessional of the mods to have the blatant bias that they do, and I really hope it's something that gets fixed.
What I've come to notice is that the mods do, in fact, do a good job. Often times when someone feels they've been dealt injustice, it is really that they are looking at it through tinted glasses. Sometimes the person you think was bashing SC2 was not in fact bashing SC2 at all. When it comes to TL, some bias towards BW is only good. People who were not there to experience BW throughout the years should also remain silent if they don't have anything good to say. BW should always, and I think it always will, have a special place on TL.
"I'm biased and I have the right to be biased because I've been here longer and some of the guys running the place are also biased. Anyone who doesn't like this bias should shut up and respect me." That's paraphrasing and exaggeration of course, and you seem to be one of the more reasonable BW guys, but nonetheless even your bias shines through. This is not a good thing, and that's exactly why I don't like mentions of the elephant, they make me feel less welcome here, like a 2nd class citizen or something. I hope this whole Kespa <-> Gom BS will be gone in a few months and we'll be enjoying watching good games as one community without one half telling the other how it was done back in the old days.
I like the BW history as long as it is good natured storytelling, not bashing. I agree on the being treated as 2nd class citizen .. hate it.
There wouldn't be any butthurt surrounding it if people didn't keep bringing it up as if it held any weight.
Conversely, people wouldnt keep bringing it up if there wasn't so much butthurt either. Such is life. :p
So the primary motivation for bringing it up is to troll and annoy people, right? Rather than being for any semblance of a productive reason >_>
Dude, you take this stuff way too seriously. Besides, this rivalry between GSL and KESPA players is probably the best thing that happened in Korea for the SC2 scene.
I'm all for a good, healthy rivalry. What I'm not for is a rivalry in which one side just repeatedly brings up how shitty and outclassed the other side is/will be.
this, and the main thing I'm against is the blatant mod bias that's been happening ever since the elephent thread. Where bans/warning are very liberally handed out for anyone bashing on Bw or defending SC2, while the people bashing SC2 almost never get banned and very rarely even warned. But again sorry for the off topic. Really glad to see JD going through, he's probably the one kespa player I really actually wanna see dominate.
mods here came from sc1. obviously shouldn't be biased at all but think about how they feel towards bw bashing especially.
I understand how they feel, and I agree BW should be given the respect it deserves. Even though I didn't even know there was such a thing as esports or pro gaming till SC2 beta, I've played SC1 since before BW, I remember being in middle school and saving up allowance money to buy BW the day it came out, it was a great game and a part of many peoples childhoods. But it's still very unprofessional of the mods to have the blatant bias that they do, and I really hope it's something that gets fixed.
What I've come to notice is that the mods do, in fact, do a good job. Often times when someone feels they've been dealt injustice, it is really that they are looking at it through tinted glasses. Sometimes the person you think was bashing SC2 was not in fact bashing SC2 at all. When it comes to TL, some bias towards BW is only good. People who were not there to experience BW throughout the years should also remain silent if they don't have anything good to say. BW should always, and I think it always will, have a special place on TL.
"I'm biased and I have the right to be biased because I've been here longer and some of the guys running the place are also biased. Anyone who doesn't like this bias should shut up and respect me." That's paraphrasing and exaggeration of course, and you seem to be one of the more reasonable BW guys, but nonetheless even your bias shines through. This is not a good thing, and that's exactly why I don't like mentions of the elephant, they make me feel less welcome here, like a 2nd class citizen or something. I hope this whole Kespa <-> Gom BS will be gone in a few months and we'll be enjoying watching good games as one community without one half telling the other how it was done back in the old days.
Oh, yes, I am biased, and I see nothing wrong with it at all. If you feel not welcome here and like a second class citizen, then that is even better! TL took a turn for the worse with the massive influx of new people. None of that you should take personally though. I just don't like this direction one bit. And what makes it worse is that TL is a site built on BW. I wouldn't care one bit if there was Team Solid, site built by SC2 guys, where you could go but there isn't. TL is originally a BW site and now people are asking to let go of that. Moreover, people fail to see that there are a lot of things you can't come and say about SC2 either. If somebody were to say CS is better than SC2, they'd be out pretty fast. So in fact there is bias towards SC2 as well. All of this is reasonable and not an issue at all since TL is a site dedicated to what it is. However, since the site was built as a shrine for BW, I think, it should remain biased toward BW. Anything else is like dancing on BW's eventual grave.
The Kespa vs GOM issue is really something that will go away. Perhaps someday there won't be Kespa vs Gom, but there will be an issue. You don't have to believe me, though, you can just go over to the fanclubs and look at who's the best foreign zerg player. Is it Idra or Stephano (no I am not asking you to answer)? Or if we go back a little is BW better than WC3? (Yes, yes it is.) These issues will always be there and Kespa vs GOM is nothing out of the ordinary.
On August 15 2012 05:13 elmizzt wrote: [quote] Conversely, people wouldnt keep bringing it up if there wasn't so much butthurt either. Such is life. :p
So the primary motivation for bringing it up is to troll and annoy people, right? Rather than being for any semblance of a productive reason >_>
Dude, you take this stuff way too seriously. Besides, this rivalry between GSL and KESPA players is probably the best thing that happened in Korea for the SC2 scene.
I'm all for a good, healthy rivalry. What I'm not for is a rivalry in which one side just repeatedly brings up how shitty and outclassed the other side is/will be.
this, and the main thing I'm against is the blatant mod bias that's been happening ever since the elephent thread. Where bans/warning are very liberally handed out for anyone bashing on Bw or defending SC2, while the people bashing SC2 almost never get banned and very rarely even warned. But again sorry for the off topic. Really glad to see JD going through, he's probably the one kespa player I really actually wanna see dominate.
mods here came from sc1. obviously shouldn't be biased at all but think about how they feel towards bw bashing especially.
I understand how they feel, and I agree BW should be given the respect it deserves. Even though I didn't even know there was such a thing as esports or pro gaming till SC2 beta, I've played SC1 since before BW, I remember being in middle school and saving up allowance money to buy BW the day it came out, it was a great game and a part of many peoples childhoods. But it's still very unprofessional of the mods to have the blatant bias that they do, and I really hope it's something that gets fixed.
What I've come to notice is that the mods do, in fact, do a good job. Often times when someone feels they've been dealt injustice, it is really that they are looking at it through tinted glasses. Sometimes the person you think was bashing SC2 was not in fact bashing SC2 at all. When it comes to TL, some bias towards BW is only good. People who were not there to experience BW throughout the years should also remain silent if they don't have anything good to say. BW should always, and I think it always will, have a special place on TL.
"I'm biased and I have the right to be biased because I've been here longer and some of the guys running the place are also biased. Anyone who doesn't like this bias should shut up and respect me." That's paraphrasing and exaggeration of course, and you seem to be one of the more reasonable BW guys, but nonetheless even your bias shines through. This is not a good thing, and that's exactly why I don't like mentions of the elephant, they make me feel less welcome here, like a 2nd class citizen or something. I hope this whole Kespa <-> Gom BS will be gone in a few months and we'll be enjoying watching good games as one community without one half telling the other how it was done back in the old days.
Oh, yes, I am biased, and I see nothing wrong with it at all. If you feel not welcome here and like a second class citizen, then that is even better! TL took a turn for the worse with the massive influx of new people. None of that you should take personally though. I just don't like this direction one bit. And what makes it worse is that TL is a site built on BW. I wouldn't care one bit if there was Team Solid, site built by SC2 guys, where you could go but there isn't. TL is originally a BW site and now people are asking to let go of that. Moreover, people fail to see that there are a lot of things you can't come and say about SC2 either. If somebody were to say CS is better than SC2, they'd be out pretty fast. So in fact there is bias towards SC2 as well. All of this is reasonable and not an issue at all since TL is a site dedicated to what it is. However, since the site was built as a shrine for BW, I think, it should remain biased toward BW. Anything else is like dancing on BW's eventual grave.
The Kespa vs GOM issue is really something that will go away. Perhaps someday there won't be Kespa vs Gom, but there will be an issue. You don't have to believe me, though, you can just go over to the fanclubs and look at who's the best foreign zerg player. Is it Idra or Stephano (no I am not asking you to answer)? Or if we go back a little is BW better than WC3? (Yes, yes it is.) These issues will always be there and Kespa vs GOM is nothing out of the ordinary.
Feeling unwelcome and like a second-class citizen is a good thing? Wow. You're being really condescending, you know. Fact is, that with the BW era ending, there will only be more SC2 fans signing up here, and you'll be stuck being bitter, bemoaning how TL as changed, talking down to all the SC2 fans. And you're going to be looking really silly doing so, because (this is just speculation, but it seems logical) I'm pretty sure that TL largely benefits financially from all the traffic it has, and guess what? Most of that traffic is due to SC2 at this point.
So the primary motivation for bringing it up is to troll and annoy people, right? Rather than being for any semblance of a productive reason >_>
Dude, you take this stuff way too seriously. Besides, this rivalry between GSL and KESPA players is probably the best thing that happened in Korea for the SC2 scene.
I'm all for a good, healthy rivalry. What I'm not for is a rivalry in which one side just repeatedly brings up how shitty and outclassed the other side is/will be.
this, and the main thing I'm against is the blatant mod bias that's been happening ever since the elephent thread. Where bans/warning are very liberally handed out for anyone bashing on Bw or defending SC2, while the people bashing SC2 almost never get banned and very rarely even warned. But again sorry for the off topic. Really glad to see JD going through, he's probably the one kespa player I really actually wanna see dominate.
mods here came from sc1. obviously shouldn't be biased at all but think about how they feel towards bw bashing especially.
I understand how they feel, and I agree BW should be given the respect it deserves. Even though I didn't even know there was such a thing as esports or pro gaming till SC2 beta, I've played SC1 since before BW, I remember being in middle school and saving up allowance money to buy BW the day it came out, it was a great game and a part of many peoples childhoods. But it's still very unprofessional of the mods to have the blatant bias that they do, and I really hope it's something that gets fixed.
What I've come to notice is that the mods do, in fact, do a good job. Often times when someone feels they've been dealt injustice, it is really that they are looking at it through tinted glasses. Sometimes the person you think was bashing SC2 was not in fact bashing SC2 at all. When it comes to TL, some bias towards BW is only good. People who were not there to experience BW throughout the years should also remain silent if they don't have anything good to say. BW should always, and I think it always will, have a special place on TL.
"I'm biased and I have the right to be biased because I've been here longer and some of the guys running the place are also biased. Anyone who doesn't like this bias should shut up and respect me." That's paraphrasing and exaggeration of course, and you seem to be one of the more reasonable BW guys, but nonetheless even your bias shines through. This is not a good thing, and that's exactly why I don't like mentions of the elephant, they make me feel less welcome here, like a 2nd class citizen or something. I hope this whole Kespa <-> Gom BS will be gone in a few months and we'll be enjoying watching good games as one community without one half telling the other how it was done back in the old days.
Oh, yes, I am biased, and I see nothing wrong with it at all. If you feel not welcome here and like a second class citizen, then that is even better! TL took a turn for the worse with the massive influx of new people. None of that you should take personally though. I just don't like this direction one bit. And what makes it worse is that TL is a site built on BW. I wouldn't care one bit if there was Team Solid, site built by SC2 guys, where you could go but there isn't. TL is originally a BW site and now people are asking to let go of that. Moreover, people fail to see that there are a lot of things you can't come and say about SC2 either. If somebody were to say CS is better than SC2, they'd be out pretty fast. So in fact there is bias towards SC2 as well. All of this is reasonable and not an issue at all since TL is a site dedicated to what it is. However, since the site was built as a shrine for BW, I think, it should remain biased toward BW. Anything else is like dancing on BW's eventual grave.
The Kespa vs GOM issue is really something that will go away. Perhaps someday there won't be Kespa vs Gom, but there will be an issue. You don't have to believe me, though, you can just go over to the fanclubs and look at who's the best foreign zerg player. Is it Idra or Stephano (no I am not asking you to answer)? Or if we go back a little is BW better than WC3? (Yes, yes it is.) These issues will always be there and Kespa vs GOM is nothing out of the ordinary.
Feeling unwelcome and like a second-class citizen is a good thing? Wow. You're being really condescending, you know. Fact is, that with the BW era ending, there will only be more SC2 fans signing up here, and you'll be stuck being bitter, bemoaning how TL as changed, talking down to all the SC2 fans. And you're going to be looking really silly doing so, because (this is just speculation, but it seems logical) I'm pretty sure that TL largely benefits financially from all the traffic it has, and guess what? Most of that traffic is due to SC2 at this point.
I think it is important to note that while the actual site may have been built specifically for BW (note: on the banner for this site it says StarCraft Progaming News, not BW or SC2), the actual "Team Liquid" plays StarCraft 2 now. Instead of having a huge divide, why not just respect BW and SC2 (and SC3, etc if it ever comes to that). Why? They're both StarCraft. Different, yes, but still both StarCraft. BW has more or less laid the foundations upon which SC2 has been built (I think WC3 helped too). So respect BW for what it and its players have done and embrace SC2 and guide it in fulfilling the potential it has.
Is it really that hard to like both sides? That's not to say some friendly rivalry is out of the question haha.
Dude, you take this stuff way too seriously. Besides, this rivalry between GSL and KESPA players is probably the best thing that happened in Korea for the SC2 scene.
I'm all for a good, healthy rivalry. What I'm not for is a rivalry in which one side just repeatedly brings up how shitty and outclassed the other side is/will be.
this, and the main thing I'm against is the blatant mod bias that's been happening ever since the elephent thread. Where bans/warning are very liberally handed out for anyone bashing on Bw or defending SC2, while the people bashing SC2 almost never get banned and very rarely even warned. But again sorry for the off topic. Really glad to see JD going through, he's probably the one kespa player I really actually wanna see dominate.
mods here came from sc1. obviously shouldn't be biased at all but think about how they feel towards bw bashing especially.
I understand how they feel, and I agree BW should be given the respect it deserves. Even though I didn't even know there was such a thing as esports or pro gaming till SC2 beta, I've played SC1 since before BW, I remember being in middle school and saving up allowance money to buy BW the day it came out, it was a great game and a part of many peoples childhoods. But it's still very unprofessional of the mods to have the blatant bias that they do, and I really hope it's something that gets fixed.
What I've come to notice is that the mods do, in fact, do a good job. Often times when someone feels they've been dealt injustice, it is really that they are looking at it through tinted glasses. Sometimes the person you think was bashing SC2 was not in fact bashing SC2 at all. When it comes to TL, some bias towards BW is only good. People who were not there to experience BW throughout the years should also remain silent if they don't have anything good to say. BW should always, and I think it always will, have a special place on TL.
"I'm biased and I have the right to be biased because I've been here longer and some of the guys running the place are also biased. Anyone who doesn't like this bias should shut up and respect me." That's paraphrasing and exaggeration of course, and you seem to be one of the more reasonable BW guys, but nonetheless even your bias shines through. This is not a good thing, and that's exactly why I don't like mentions of the elephant, they make me feel less welcome here, like a 2nd class citizen or something. I hope this whole Kespa <-> Gom BS will be gone in a few months and we'll be enjoying watching good games as one community without one half telling the other how it was done back in the old days.
Oh, yes, I am biased, and I see nothing wrong with it at all. If you feel not welcome here and like a second class citizen, then that is even better! TL took a turn for the worse with the massive influx of new people. None of that you should take personally though. I just don't like this direction one bit. And what makes it worse is that TL is a site built on BW. I wouldn't care one bit if there was Team Solid, site built by SC2 guys, where you could go but there isn't. TL is originally a BW site and now people are asking to let go of that. Moreover, people fail to see that there are a lot of things you can't come and say about SC2 either. If somebody were to say CS is better than SC2, they'd be out pretty fast. So in fact there is bias towards SC2 as well. All of this is reasonable and not an issue at all since TL is a site dedicated to what it is. However, since the site was built as a shrine for BW, I think, it should remain biased toward BW. Anything else is like dancing on BW's eventual grave.
The Kespa vs GOM issue is really something that will go away. Perhaps someday there won't be Kespa vs Gom, but there will be an issue. You don't have to believe me, though, you can just go over to the fanclubs and look at who's the best foreign zerg player. Is it Idra or Stephano (no I am not asking you to answer)? Or if we go back a little is BW better than WC3? (Yes, yes it is.) These issues will always be there and Kespa vs GOM is nothing out of the ordinary.
Feeling unwelcome and like a second-class citizen is a good thing? Wow. You're being really condescending, you know. Fact is, that with the BW era ending, there will only be more SC2 fans signing up here, and you'll be stuck being bitter, bemoaning how TL as changed, talking down to all the SC2 fans. And you're going to be looking really silly doing so, because (this is just speculation, but it seems logical) I'm pretty sure that TL largely benefits financially from all the traffic it has, and guess what? Most of that traffic is due to SC2 at this point.
I think it is important to note that while the actual site may have been built specifically for BW (note: on the banner for this site it says StarCraft Progaming News, not BW or SC2), the actual "Team Liquid" plays StarCraft 2 now. Instead of having a huge divide, why not just respect BW and SC2 (and SC3, etc if it ever comes to that). Why? They're both StarCraft. Different, yes, but still both StarCraft. BW has more or less laid the foundations upon which SC2 has been built (I think WC3 helped too). So respect BW for what it and its players have done and embrace SC2 and guide it in fulfilling the potential it has.
Is it really that hard to like both sides? That's not to say some friendly rivalry is out of the question haha.
I agree with this. I have a massive amount of respect for the overall BW scene and the skill of the BW pros. I simply dislike the attitudes of certain BW fans.
So the primary motivation for bringing it up is to troll and annoy people, right? Rather than being for any semblance of a productive reason >_>
Dude, you take this stuff way too seriously. Besides, this rivalry between GSL and KESPA players is probably the best thing that happened in Korea for the SC2 scene.
I'm all for a good, healthy rivalry. What I'm not for is a rivalry in which one side just repeatedly brings up how shitty and outclassed the other side is/will be.
this, and the main thing I'm against is the blatant mod bias that's been happening ever since the elephent thread. Where bans/warning are very liberally handed out for anyone bashing on Bw or defending SC2, while the people bashing SC2 almost never get banned and very rarely even warned. But again sorry for the off topic. Really glad to see JD going through, he's probably the one kespa player I really actually wanna see dominate.
mods here came from sc1. obviously shouldn't be biased at all but think about how they feel towards bw bashing especially.
I understand how they feel, and I agree BW should be given the respect it deserves. Even though I didn't even know there was such a thing as esports or pro gaming till SC2 beta, I've played SC1 since before BW, I remember being in middle school and saving up allowance money to buy BW the day it came out, it was a great game and a part of many peoples childhoods. But it's still very unprofessional of the mods to have the blatant bias that they do, and I really hope it's something that gets fixed.
What I've come to notice is that the mods do, in fact, do a good job. Often times when someone feels they've been dealt injustice, it is really that they are looking at it through tinted glasses. Sometimes the person you think was bashing SC2 was not in fact bashing SC2 at all. When it comes to TL, some bias towards BW is only good. People who were not there to experience BW throughout the years should also remain silent if they don't have anything good to say. BW should always, and I think it always will, have a special place on TL.
"I'm biased and I have the right to be biased because I've been here longer and some of the guys running the place are also biased. Anyone who doesn't like this bias should shut up and respect me." That's paraphrasing and exaggeration of course, and you seem to be one of the more reasonable BW guys, but nonetheless even your bias shines through. This is not a good thing, and that's exactly why I don't like mentions of the elephant, they make me feel less welcome here, like a 2nd class citizen or something. I hope this whole Kespa <-> Gom BS will be gone in a few months and we'll be enjoying watching good games as one community without one half telling the other how it was done back in the old days.
Oh, yes, I am biased, and I see nothing wrong with it at all. If you feel not welcome here and like a second class citizen, then that is even better! TL took a turn for the worse with the massive influx of new people. None of that you should take personally though. I just don't like this direction one bit. And what makes it worse is that TL is a site built on BW. I wouldn't care one bit if there was Team Solid, site built by SC2 guys, where you could go but there isn't. TL is originally a BW site and now people are asking to let go of that. Moreover, people fail to see that there are a lot of things you can't come and say about SC2 either. If somebody were to say CS is better than SC2, they'd be out pretty fast. So in fact there is bias towards SC2 as well. All of this is reasonable and not an issue at all since TL is a site dedicated to what it is. However, since the site was built as a shrine for BW, I think, it should remain biased toward BW. Anything else is like dancing on BW's eventual grave.
The Kespa vs GOM issue is really something that will go away. Perhaps someday there won't be Kespa vs Gom, but there will be an issue. You don't have to believe me, though, you can just go over to the fanclubs and look at who's the best foreign zerg player. Is it Idra or Stephano (no I am not asking you to answer)? Or if we go back a little is BW better than WC3? (Yes, yes it is.) These issues will always be there and Kespa vs GOM is nothing out of the ordinary.
Feeling unwelcome and like a second-class citizen is a good thing? You're being really condescending, you know. Fact is that with the BW era ending, there will only be more SC2 fans signing up here, and you'll be stuck being bitter, bemoaning how TL as changed, talking down to all the SC2 fans. And you're going to be looking really silly doing so, because (this is just speculation, but it seems logical) I'm pretty sure that TL largely benefits financially from all the traffic it has, and guess what? Most of that traffic is due to SC2 at this point.
Yes, if the unwelcome second-class citizens are destroying things*. Also, I am not sure why you are telling me about traffic for example as if I didn't know about it. Of course all the traffic has been beneficial for TL financially. Of course this is a change that won't be reverted. Everybody knows that and that is why they don't like it.
An analogy of scope (not scale): the only proper English fanpage for The Beatles in the world is turned into a fanpage of Justin Bieber. The site grows with an influx of new members. This benefits the staff. The new members begin threads wondering which of the two is better, The Beatles or Justin Bieber. This does not benefit the original members. What kind of reaction do you want to see from the original members?
Now, that post of yours is something akin to twisting the knife just because people won't roll over and die. Why should people just roll over and die?
On August 15 2012 07:23 opterown wrote: guys, as i said in the other thread - ignore Squeegy like the plague, he's not worth it
But why am I not worth it and why should I be ignored? I am not posting one liners or calling you names. Somebody even called me one of the more reasonable BW fans here in this very thread. You don't have to like what I say but that does not mean that I am not worth it. And if this topic is of interest to some, I don't see why they should ignore me specifically. Of course if they don't wish to discuss the topic they can ignore me, and I'm sure many do, but since they keep discussing it with me, it seems to me like the topic is of interest to them.
On August 14 2012 20:07 Squeegy wrote: I don't think I even have to say it. The guy called the best player in the world around a month ago just lost to one of the elephants playing two games and SC2 only for little while. U mad?
If you feel not welcome here and like a second class citizen, then that is even better!
Somebody even called me one of the more reasonable BW fans here in this very thread. You don't have to like what I say but that does not mean that I am not worth it. And if this topic is of interest to some, I don't see why they should ignore me specifically. Of course if they don't wish to discuss the topic they can ignore me, and I'm sure many do, but since they keep discussing it with me, it seems to me like the topic is of interest to them.
One 1day only you broke 2 of the things you said you don't do, great job there.
I just Love Starcraft. I respect and like BW. And I like and watch sc2 I hope the Kespa pros catch up fast because that just means more excellent starcraft. I understand what some BW fans are feeling but it is no need to hate and same goes for SC2 fans I just want everyone to get along and enjoy some great Starcraft with me .
EPT
