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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37099 Posts
On August 15 2012 03:22 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 03:13 ACrow wrote:Thank you very much for the translations, good work as usual  ...but why oh why, Seeker, did you post those pictures (the ones with the grey large animals)...that thread was one of the worst and dumbest one ever made on TL... Yeah I kind of wish people would stop perpetuating the dumb elephant shit. I just immensely dislike everything that article represents. I realize a BW vs. SC2 rivalry is inevitable, but the elephant in the room business is way too aggressive in that it just shits all over SC2 players, and it's not a healthy way to represent the rivalry IMO.
Should I remove it?
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On August 15 2012 03:22 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 03:13 ACrow wrote:Thank you very much for the translations, good work as usual ...but why oh why, Seeker, did you post those pictures (the ones with the grey large animals)...that thread was one of the worst and dumbest one ever made on TL... Yeah I kind of wish people would stop perpetuating the dumb elephant shit. I just immensely dislike everything that article represents. I realize a BW vs. SC2 rivalry is inevitable, but the elephant in the room business is way too aggressive in that it just shits all over SC2 players, and it's not a healthy way to represent the rivalry IMO.
The article was only aggressive when you consider it at the time. Most would agree that the level of play has evolved tremendously since then, therefore nobody would argue that the competition is a farce anymore. In that sense, the point of the article, that people stand by now, is really only that there are a lot of talented and hardworking players who have the potential to do as well and to surpass the best of GSL. You should interprete that as Kespa being that good rather than GSL being bad. From our perspective it is absurd to even suggest something like that MVP is comparable to Flash. We see it like suggesting a national level sprinter is comparable to Usain Bolt. We think that is arrogant. But that is not to say that MVP is not respectable or talented, because everybody thinks he is. What it is, is to suggest that Flash is a genius.
It is beyond me why should we see GSL as being equal with Kespa. Of course if it happens in the next year or two that Kespa fails to become dominant, then sure, but as it is now, there is really no reason for that. You don't have to buy the Elephant thread but to say that the base idea of it was somehow bad just shows that you're new here. And since that seems to be the case, all I can say is, welcome to TL. This place might not be what you thought it was.
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I don't think it's a BW vs SC2 rivalry. I was actively cheering for BW players before the hybrid league, for followed BW since Grrrr... days. But with hybrid league / BW dieing, alot BW fans too out their frustration on SC2 fans, who welcomed new fans with open arm and got punched in the stomach.
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On August 15 2012 03:44 SeeKeR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 03:22 HolyArrow wrote:On August 15 2012 03:13 ACrow wrote:Thank you very much for the translations, good work as usual ...but why oh why, Seeker, did you post those pictures (the ones with the grey large animals)...that thread was one of the worst and dumbest one ever made on TL... Yeah I kind of wish people would stop perpetuating the dumb elephant shit. I just immensely dislike everything that article represents. I realize a BW vs. SC2 rivalry is inevitable, but the elephant in the room business is way too aggressive in that it just shits all over SC2 players, and it's not a healthy way to represent the rivalry IMO. Should I remove it?
Up to you, man. You do a lot of great work here, I don't want to tell you what to do. I was just throwing in my 2 cents
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kespa players cleaning house in lower bracket! made me lose all my liquidbets.
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On August 15 2012 03:13 ACrow wrote:Thank you very much for the translations, good work as usual ...but why oh why, Seeker, did you post those pictures (the ones with the grey large animals)...that thread was one of the worst and dumbest one ever made on TL...
The 5 stages of grief:
1. Denial
2. Anger
3. Bargaining
4. Depression
5. Acceptance
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37099 Posts
Poll: Remove the Elephant/Rhino pictures?No (65) 64% Yes (32) 31% Yes but only rhino (5) 5% Yes but only elephant (0) 0% 102 total votes Your vote: Remove the Elephant/Rhino pictures? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): Yes but only elephant
(Vote): Yes but only rhino
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On August 15 2012 03:45 Squeegy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 03:22 HolyArrow wrote:On August 15 2012 03:13 ACrow wrote:Thank you very much for the translations, good work as usual ...but why oh why, Seeker, did you post those pictures (the ones with the grey large animals)...that thread was one of the worst and dumbest one ever made on TL... Yeah I kind of wish people would stop perpetuating the dumb elephant shit. I just immensely dislike everything that article represents. I realize a BW vs. SC2 rivalry is inevitable, but the elephant in the room business is way too aggressive in that it just shits all over SC2 players, and it's not a healthy way to represent the rivalry IMO. The article was only aggressive when you consider it at the time. Most would agree that the level of play has evolved tremendously since then, therefore nobody would argue that the competition is a farce anymore. In that sense, the point of the article, that people stand by now, is really only that there are a lot of talented and hardworking players who have the potential to do as well and to surpass the best of GSL. You should interprete that as Kespa being that good rather than GSL being bad. From our perspective it is absurd to even suggest something like that MVP is comparable to Flash. We see it like suggesting a national level sprinter is comparable to Usain Bolt. We think that is arrogant. But that is not to say that MVP is not respectable or talented, because everybody thinks he is. What it is, is to suggest that Flash is a genius. It is beyond me why should we see GSL as being equal with Kespa. Of course if it happens in the next year or two that Kespa fails to become dominant, then sure, but as it is now, there is really no reason for that. You don't have to buy the Elephant thread but to say that the base idea of it was somehow bad just shows that you're new here. And since that seems to be the case, all I can say is, welcome to TL. This place might not be what you thought it was.
I have no problem with the nature of the interpretation that Kespa players are good rather than GSL players are being bad - I'm even inclined to agree with it because BW is definitely the harder game mechanically. In regards to comparing MVP to Flash, I don't think any clearheaded person in the SC2 community actually makes that comparison. From what I've seen, anytime someone tried to throw around the b-word, he'd get shot down pretty quickly.
With that said, your point that the Elephant carries a different meaning now as opposed to back when the article was written is noted, but I disagree. Maybe I'm just being overly pedantic, but to me, the meaning hasn't changed: The article was about how bad MC and Nestea were, how average MVP was, and how the SC2 competition has been a farce exactly because of the underwhelming BW achievements of its top players, and the way I see it, the big 3 of SC2 are still those 3 players, so it's still just as insulting. I also want to say that even though SC2 is mechanically less demanding than BW, it's still a different game, and may favor a different skillset, so all these comparisons between different games don't make too much sense to me. I also don't see how my seniority here has anything to do with the validity of my interpretation of the article as bad. Today could be my first day here and I'd still say that the entire basis for the article is shitty, just because SC2 and BW are, again, different games.
I'm not trying to generalize here, and I acknowledge that there are plenty of BW fans who are approaching the SC2 scene in friendly, acceptable ways, and I thank them for that. But from what I've observed on the forums, there are also a good amount of BW fans whose primary agendas are to just constantly talk about how the GSL players are all chobos, to goad SC2 fans on about how their scene is about to get stomped (hell, just look at the post above me about the 5 stages of denial), and so on. I realize that people are bitter that BW is ending, and I sympathize with that - if I had it my way, I would have chosen to keep the BW scene around just because it was a great game with such a rich history, and established players and paradigms, but that sadly wasn't meant to be, and I wish certain people could just get over that without feeling some sort of bitterness toward the SC2 scene and feel the need to constantly instigate. And to tie things back into the elephant imagery, it just invites that sort of annoying behavior.
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Russian Federation484 Posts
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Heaven forbid we talk about (foreign) WC3 vs BW, but let's go ahead and talk about (Korean) BW vs SC2.
In either case you have the players who carry a history of having played and practiced so much more for their game. Given a certain amount of time, they will inevitably become skilled players in the current proscene.
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YES WE GET IT!!!. I usually stay out of these discussions, but having to read every other post... "He, you, SCII guy, you know your game and the players are inferior, right, right... just saying".
BW has a 10+ year head start, BW has the better infrastructure, BW has legendary players ..... YES I HEARD YOU AND YOUR BW BUDDIES THE FIRST 1000+ times. It's not the we don't get it... It's just that it is getting fucking annoying.
Bring something interesting to the table.
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On August 15 2012 03:44 SeeKeR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 03:22 HolyArrow wrote:On August 15 2012 03:13 ACrow wrote:Thank you very much for the translations, good work as usual ...but why oh why, Seeker, did you post those pictures (the ones with the grey large animals)...that thread was one of the worst and dumbest one ever made on TL... Yeah I kind of wish people would stop perpetuating the dumb elephant shit. I just immensely dislike everything that article represents. I realize a BW vs. SC2 rivalry is inevitable, but the elephant in the room business is way too aggressive in that it just shits all over SC2 players, and it's not a healthy way to represent the rivalry IMO. Should I remove it?
Nah you decide (you're the boss), no big deal, it just brings back bad memories to me
That being sad, I just got done watching the first match of the night, that ZvT was very nice to watch with lots of solid micro, Jaedong played impressive today.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37099 Posts
On August 15 2012 04:20 ACrow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 03:44 SeeKeR wrote:On August 15 2012 03:22 HolyArrow wrote:On August 15 2012 03:13 ACrow wrote:Thank you very much for the translations, good work as usual ...but why oh why, Seeker, did you post those pictures (the ones with the grey large animals)...that thread was one of the worst and dumbest one ever made on TL... Yeah I kind of wish people would stop perpetuating the dumb elephant shit. I just immensely dislike everything that article represents. I realize a BW vs. SC2 rivalry is inevitable, but the elephant in the room business is way too aggressive in that it just shits all over SC2 players, and it's not a healthy way to represent the rivalry IMO. Should I remove it? Nah you decide (you're the boss), no big deal, it just brings back bad memories to me That being sad, I just got done watching the first match of the night, that ZvT was very nice to watch with lots of solid micro, Jaedong played impressive today.
I am a mere servant of the almighty poll
Poll: Remove the Elephant/Rhino pictures?No (65) 64% Yes (32) 31% Yes but only rhino (5) 5% Yes but only elephant (0) 0% 102 total votes Your vote: Remove the Elephant/Rhino pictures? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): Yes but only elephant
(Vote): Yes but only rhino
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On August 15 2012 04:04 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 03:45 Squeegy wrote:On August 15 2012 03:22 HolyArrow wrote:On August 15 2012 03:13 ACrow wrote:Thank you very much for the translations, good work as usual ...but why oh why, Seeker, did you post those pictures (the ones with the grey large animals)...that thread was one of the worst and dumbest one ever made on TL... Yeah I kind of wish people would stop perpetuating the dumb elephant shit. I just immensely dislike everything that article represents. I realize a BW vs. SC2 rivalry is inevitable, but the elephant in the room business is way too aggressive in that it just shits all over SC2 players, and it's not a healthy way to represent the rivalry IMO. The article was only aggressive when you consider it at the time. Most would agree that the level of play has evolved tremendously since then, therefore nobody would argue that the competition is a farce anymore. In that sense, the point of the article, that people stand by now, is really only that there are a lot of talented and hardworking players who have the potential to do as well and to surpass the best of GSL. You should interprete that as Kespa being that good rather than GSL being bad. From our perspective it is absurd to even suggest something like that MVP is comparable to Flash. We see it like suggesting a national level sprinter is comparable to Usain Bolt. We think that is arrogant. But that is not to say that MVP is not respectable or talented, because everybody thinks he is. What it is, is to suggest that Flash is a genius. It is beyond me why should we see GSL as being equal with Kespa. Of course if it happens in the next year or two that Kespa fails to become dominant, then sure, but as it is now, there is really no reason for that. You don't have to buy the Elephant thread but to say that the base idea of it was somehow bad just shows that you're new here. And since that seems to be the case, all I can say is, welcome to TL. This place might not be what you thought it was. I have no problem with the nature of the interpretation that Kespa players are good rather than GSL players are being bad - I'm even inclined to agree with it because BW is definitely the harder game mechanically. In regards to comparing MVP to Flash, I don't think any clearheaded person in the SC2 community actually makes that comparison. From what I've seen, anytime someone tried to throw around the b-word, he'd get shot down pretty quickly. With that said, your point that the Elephant carries a different meaning now as opposed to back when the article was written is noted, but I disagree. Maybe I'm just being overly pedantic, but to me, the meaning hasn't changed: The article was about how bad MC and Nestea were, how average MVP was, and how the SC2 competition has been a farce exactly because of the underwhelming BW achievements of its top players, and the way I see it, the big 3 of SC2 are still those 3 players, so it's still just as insulting. I also want to say that even though SC2 is mechanically less demanding than BW, it's still a different game, and may favor a different skillset, so all these comparisons between different games don't make too much sense to me. I also don't see how my seniority here has anything to do with the validity of my interpretation of the article as bad. Today could be my first day here and I'd still say that the entire basis for the article is shitty, just because SC2 and BW are, again, different games.
But that's what I'm trying to point out here, the reason why the article was so negative, is because at the time the level of play really was quite bad. That is why it was thought that Flash could potentially be the best in a month. You have to take the article in its context.
Nobody thought the competition was a farce because MC and Nestea were bad in BW. The play was bad and the best players were not playing the game. That is why the competition was a farce. That is why if the article would be written now, it would not be as negative in tone, but the point would be the same. That there are players better than MVP out there and that because the very best are not playing, it is something like world cup hockey without the NHL stars.
Your seniority has to do with questioning the (some sort of) moral aspect of the article. The article represents the the mentality of TL quite well. It is almost like asking TL not to be TL.
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On August 15 2012 03:44 SeeKeR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 03:22 HolyArrow wrote:On August 15 2012 03:13 ACrow wrote:Thank you very much for the translations, good work as usual ...but why oh why, Seeker, did you post those pictures (the ones with the grey large animals)...that thread was one of the worst and dumbest one ever made on TL... Yeah I kind of wish people would stop perpetuating the dumb elephant shit. I just immensely dislike everything that article represents. I realize a BW vs. SC2 rivalry is inevitable, but the elephant in the room business is way too aggressive in that it just shits all over SC2 players, and it's not a healthy way to represent the rivalry IMO. Should I remove it?
I personnaly find the whole elephant story and the people butthurt about it to be rather funny
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On August 15 2012 04:45 Squeegy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 04:04 HolyArrow wrote:On August 15 2012 03:45 Squeegy wrote:On August 15 2012 03:22 HolyArrow wrote:On August 15 2012 03:13 ACrow wrote:Thank you very much for the translations, good work as usual ...but why oh why, Seeker, did you post those pictures (the ones with the grey large animals)...that thread was one of the worst and dumbest one ever made on TL... Yeah I kind of wish people would stop perpetuating the dumb elephant shit. I just immensely dislike everything that article represents. I realize a BW vs. SC2 rivalry is inevitable, but the elephant in the room business is way too aggressive in that it just shits all over SC2 players, and it's not a healthy way to represent the rivalry IMO. The article was only aggressive when you consider it at the time. Most would agree that the level of play has evolved tremendously since then, therefore nobody would argue that the competition is a farce anymore. In that sense, the point of the article, that people stand by now, is really only that there are a lot of talented and hardworking players who have the potential to do as well and to surpass the best of GSL. You should interprete that as Kespa being that good rather than GSL being bad. From our perspective it is absurd to even suggest something like that MVP is comparable to Flash. We see it like suggesting a national level sprinter is comparable to Usain Bolt. We think that is arrogant. But that is not to say that MVP is not respectable or talented, because everybody thinks he is. What it is, is to suggest that Flash is a genius. It is beyond me why should we see GSL as being equal with Kespa. Of course if it happens in the next year or two that Kespa fails to become dominant, then sure, but as it is now, there is really no reason for that. You don't have to buy the Elephant thread but to say that the base idea of it was somehow bad just shows that you're new here. And since that seems to be the case, all I can say is, welcome to TL. This place might not be what you thought it was. I have no problem with the nature of the interpretation that Kespa players are good rather than GSL players are being bad - I'm even inclined to agree with it because BW is definitely the harder game mechanically. In regards to comparing MVP to Flash, I don't think any clearheaded person in the SC2 community actually makes that comparison. From what I've seen, anytime someone tried to throw around the b-word, he'd get shot down pretty quickly. With that said, your point that the Elephant carries a different meaning now as opposed to back when the article was written is noted, but I disagree. Maybe I'm just being overly pedantic, but to me, the meaning hasn't changed: The article was about how bad MC and Nestea were, how average MVP was, and how the SC2 competition has been a farce exactly because of the underwhelming BW achievements of its top players, and the way I see it, the big 3 of SC2 are still those 3 players, so it's still just as insulting. I also want to say that even though SC2 is mechanically less demanding than BW, it's still a different game, and may favor a different skillset, so all these comparisons between different games don't make too much sense to me. I also don't see how my seniority here has anything to do with the validity of my interpretation of the article as bad. Today could be my first day here and I'd still say that the entire basis for the article is shitty, just because SC2 and BW are, again, different games. But that's what I'm trying to point out here, the reason why the article was so negative, is because at the time the level of play really was quite bad. That is why it was thought that Flash could potentially be the best in a month. You have to take the article in its context. Nobody thought the competition was a farce because MC and Nestea were bad in BW. The play was bad and the best players were not playing the game. That is why the competition was a farce. That is why if the article would be written now, it would not be as negative in tone, but the point would be the same. That there are players better than MVP out there and that because the very best are not playing, it is something like world cup hockey without the NHL stars. Your seniority has to do with questioning the (some sort of) moral aspect of the article. The article represents the the mentality of TL quite well. It is almost like asking TL not to be TL.
Well, morality is relative in this case. Maybe TL being TL would be morally wrong in certain cases from my own perspective. All I'm saying is that you can't tell me that my opinion of the article is incorrect in any absolute sense.
Anyways, you're still saying the same things that I'm rejecting on the basis of the argument that BW and SC2 are different games. Flash is a BW god, but who knows how he'll do in SC2 (though I'd certainly expect him to do amazingly at SC2 due to his work ethic and strategic prowess, you cannot say with 100% certainty that Flash will dominate SC2 like he did BW). You're treating SC2 as if BW success will perfectly correlate with SC2 success, which it hasn't so far. And also, the level of play might have been bad, but that's also due to how SC2 was much younger than it is now, and thus far less figured out. Once people actually figure out all the strategies and just understand the game better, the level of play naturally looks much higher, and that just takes time and experimentation, not only skill.
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On August 15 2012 00:29 YMCApylons wrote:
Just caught up with the games...
Effort vs. DRG game 3 is a must watch. That ling/bling micro was completely incredible. I knew Effort could do it, it was basically scourge/muta micro, but the fact that DRG could match him for 5~8 minutes of non-stop micro was impressive. I know DRG is supposed to be in a slump, but that was the best bit of ZvZ micro I've seen from DRG in a long time. DRG just chose the wrong fight.
Yugioh...WTF man. That game three Fantasy GG timing.
How did you catch up with the games? I couldn't find vods 
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37099 Posts
Poll: Remove the Elephant/Rhino pictures?No (65) 64% Yes (32) 31% Yes but only rhino (5) 5% Yes but only elephant (0) 0% 102 total votes Your vote: Remove the Elephant/Rhino pictures? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): Yes but only elephant
(Vote): Yes but only rhino
According to the poll, ppl seem to like the pics Oo;;
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For the record, I still think the elephant stuff is fun and hilarious. Rivalry makes for great stories (and horrible LR threads, but what ya gonna do :D)
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On August 15 2012 04:50 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 03:44 SeeKeR wrote:On August 15 2012 03:22 HolyArrow wrote:On August 15 2012 03:13 ACrow wrote:Thank you very much for the translations, good work as usual ...but why oh why, Seeker, did you post those pictures (the ones with the grey large animals)...that thread was one of the worst and dumbest one ever made on TL... Yeah I kind of wish people would stop perpetuating the dumb elephant shit. I just immensely dislike everything that article represents. I realize a BW vs. SC2 rivalry is inevitable, but the elephant in the room business is way too aggressive in that it just shits all over SC2 players, and it's not a healthy way to represent the rivalry IMO. Should I remove it? I personnaly find the whole elephant story and the people butthurt about it to be rather funny
This. The elephant article was probably one of the all-time low points of the TL writing staff, but the butthurt surrounding it is just as silly. Just root for your fav players people (fuck yeah effort!)
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EPT
