For those of you who couldn't be bothered to read the article, here are some FANTASTIC excerpts from it:
Many of the high-profile matches at the World Cyber Games are played on stage in front of a live audience. Players sit in soundproof cubes so they don't hear the game's three Korean announcers, who sit at a cafeteria table yelling about whose army is advancing and who is about to get ambushed. The announcers wear white lab coats and glasses, giving them the air of scientists. One is a dead ringer for Dr. Bunsen, Beaker's sidekick on "The Muppet Show."
The match didn't last long. After setting up a base in the northeast corner of the map, MarineKing sent foot soldiers to root out his opponent's headquarters -- a glowing blue pyramid spitting out blue termites -- and blew the whole thing up before the 10-minute mark. His coach nodded approvingly and walked away. MarineKing paid no attention to the press photographers leaning over a rail to snap pictures.
He would face a relatively unknown Ukrainian player named Kas.
Just before the 19-minute mark, Kas ambushed MarineKing on his side of the city. A flurry of insect-like alien creatures swarmed his human base and started pecking away at it.
The initial angle is what is making people upset, and it's pretty fucking obvious. It's so frustrating to always have to "combat" this type of thinking regardless how the article moves on, since the majority of people will not read properly.
No one would claim that working out 8 hours a day to become a olympic champion or the likes is an addiction, and would rather praise he/she for their efforts.
So, I'll chim in and say FU CNN, but thanks for the exposure!
The article was decent considering that the author had probably no background on SC2 and its relation to other types of games out there.
Kas and Moonglade as unknown... -shiver-
But this article does bring out a point. What is the line of addiction in progaming?
it's simple, but the article never gets around to the fact of losing. In SC2, and at the pro level, you lose and you get annoyed by it (examples include all the ladder rage). That's why competitive e-sports can't be addicting games and people are addicted to games where there is no proper sense of competition (like MapleStory and MMORPGs), as Tasteless said.
To me, e-sports is similar to a regular sport. Like Cross Country (that I run), you train year round, with a few people, focusing on a particular race that you want to excel at, and you are driven by the will to win rather than the need to run. Same thing applies to progaming. I honestly don't see how much of a difference there is.
However with addiction, you keep playing because of a need to play the game, not because you want to win or anything.
Okay, enough of me letting steam out when I defend esports.
On August 05 2012 14:14 Kontys wrote: Skill or Addiction?
..
Fucking haters.
EDIT: Oh, ok. Just my initial reaction to the title.
This is apparently about gaming addiction. I think they kind of misunderstood what Tasteless was saying about competitivity. Boss part Mr Tasteless, you are handsome.
EDIT2: Oh there was a text part. Well, fuck you CNN. Not cool.
EDIT3: CNN IS RUINING ESPORTS. Fact, but this does not need to go viral.
Oh c'mon and think. Do you really think that eSports is as valid as "real sports"? Sure it is entertaining to watch pro players play their games and to play yourself, BUT did you think about the consequences of eSports for their participants? Take any korean kid from the B-team (and there should be a lot of them) and now tell me which useful things playing Starcraft has taught them for their future life? Which skill did they gain? I cant really see anything, because clicking fast isnt something terribly useful. So (in Starcraft terms):
What do you transition into after spending 4-5 years semi-not-so-successful with playing a computer game?
Thats the whole problem of eSports. The top pros will have made enough money and fame to support them and give them viable alternatives within the industry, but the spots there are VERY LIMITED and are occupied for much longer than a pro gamer career. There is no semi-usefulness for those not-top-players in other professions as there is in real sports. I know a guy who played football in 4th league (and he wasnt really an amateur during the time) and he is now a teacher with sports as one of his classes. ESports has no such transition and thus it is good if it doesnt grow too big.
The years of 16-24 are very important for a human, because that is the time when you are able to learn new things easy. After that it will become harder and "wasting it" on a "trivial game" (which wont help you in your later 40-60 years) isnt a wise thing to do.
----
Computer games - as a whole - are entertaining to play, but as always there is a limit to when it becomes a bad thing. There was a guy 500 years ago who nailed that perfectly:
Paracelsus (born Philippus Aureolus Theophrastus Bombastus von Hohenheim, 11 November or 17 December 1493 – 24 September 1541)
"All things are poison, and nothing is without poison; only the dose permits something not to be poisonous."
This is one of the major pieces of wisdom which a human has ever come up with and it applies to EVERYTHING IN LIFE. So dont be a spoiled four year old who starts to cry when mommy calls him home from the sandbox and think about eSports rationally and calmly.
That's not the problem... You say it very well, but ignore the fact that pretty much all other sports or things in life where achievement require a ton of practice/workout is most often praised and put out to be something positive, whereas within gaming you still have this stereotypical view on how this poison is somehow "even more of a poison".
Fuck that shit.
Also there is much to be learned from playing games in general, both motorically, mentally, logically and from a pure knowledge perspective.
On August 05 2012 14:14 Kontys wrote: Skill or Addiction?
..
Fucking haters.
EDIT: Oh, ok. Just my initial reaction to the title.
This is apparently about gaming addiction. I think they kind of misunderstood what Tasteless was saying about competitivity. Boss part Mr Tasteless, you are handsome.
EDIT2: Oh there was a text part. Well, fuck you CNN. Not cool.
EDIT3: CNN IS RUINING ESPORTS. Fact, but this does not need to go viral.
Oh c'mon and think. Do you really think that eSports is as valid as "real sports"? Sure it is entertaining to watch pro players play their games and to play yourself, BUT did you think about the consequences of eSports for their participants? Take any korean kid from the B-team (and there should be a lot of them) and now tell me which useful things playing Starcraft has taught them for their future life? Which skill did they gain? I cant really see anything, because clicking fast isnt something terribly useful. So (in Starcraft terms):
What do you transition into after spending 4-5 years semi-not-so-successful with playing a computer game?
Thats the whole problem of eSports. The top pros will have made enough money and fame to support them and give them viable alternatives within the industry, but the spots there are VERY LIMITED and are occupied for much longer than a pro gamer career. There is no semi-usefulness for those not-top-players in other professions as there is in real sports. I know a guy who played football in 4th league (and he wasnt really an amateur during the time) and he is now a teacher with sports as one of his classes. ESports has no such transition and thus it is good if it doesnt grow too big.
The years of 16-24 are very important for a human, because that is the time when you are able to learn new things easy. After that it will become harder and "wasting it" on a "trivial game" (which wont help you in your later 40-60 years) isnt a wise thing to do.
----
Computer games - as a whole - are entertaining to play, but as always there is a limit to when it becomes a bad thing. There was a guy 500 years ago who nailed that perfectly:
Paracelsus (born Philippus Aureolus Theophrastus Bombastus von Hohenheim, 11 November or 17 December 1493 – 24 September 1541)
"All things are poison, and nothing is without poison; only the dose permits something not to be poisonous."
This is one of the major pieces of wisdom which a human has ever come up with and it applies to EVERYTHING IN LIFE. So dont be a spoiled four year old who starts to cry when mommy calls him home from the sandbox and think about eSports rationally and calmly.
After 4-5 years you can become caster, there are many opportunities in gaming industry, you see it's pretty large. There is more than playing as pro in the gaming industry. Did you even watch the videos on the article?
It makes your "I know a guy who played football in 4th league (and he wasnt really an amateur during the time) and he is now a teacher with sports as one of his classes. ESports has no such transition and thus it is good if it doesnt grow too big. " statement ridiculous.
Did you see that MVP coach was ex-progamer?
Also don't use arguments like "So dont be a spoiled four year old who starts to cry when mommy calls him home from the sandbox and think about eSports rationally and calmly." you make yourself look like a fool.
On August 05 2012 18:29 branflakes14 wrote: Necessity breeds addiction. If kids had something else worthwhile to do they wouldn't be playing video games for 40 hours straight.
Thats stupid. Necessity isnt needed to breed an addiction and for computer games it is the EASY WAY to spend some enjoyable time, because you dont have to move a bit. You dont even have to make a phone call to organize an evening with your friends, you just turn on the computer and log in and whoever is there is there and who isnt isnt. You can play with anyone from anywhere and the world is big enough so that there will always be someone to play with.
With "real life friends" you dont have that same easy way of entertainment, because you have to organize meeting them and then one of them doesnt have time and after organizing it you have to meet somewhere ... so computer games is a MUCH EASIER way of "meeting".
The bad part about computer games is that although it is a form of communication it is also a BAD QUALITY. The reason for me calling it bad quality is that it only involves very few of your senses and a face-to-face meeting always involves the highest amount of your senses. A quick example is sarcasm. In a 1-sense-meeting (either voicechat or text only on a forum like this) you might not know if someone is using sarcasm or is just stupid and honestly meaning what he says. In a face-to-face meeting you also have body language to figure that one out.
On August 05 2012 14:14 Kontys wrote: Skill or Addiction?
..
Fucking haters.
EDIT: Oh, ok. Just my initial reaction to the title.
This is apparently about gaming addiction. I think they kind of misunderstood what Tasteless was saying about competitivity. Boss part Mr Tasteless, you are handsome.
EDIT2: Oh there was a text part. Well, fuck you CNN. Not cool.
EDIT3: CNN IS RUINING ESPORTS. Fact, but this does not need to go viral.
Oh c'mon and think. Do you really think that eSports is as valid as "real sports"? Sure it is entertaining to watch pro players play their games and to play yourself, BUT did you think about the consequences of eSports for their participants? Take any korean kid from the B-team (and there should be a lot of them) and now tell me which useful things playing Starcraft has taught them for their future life? Which skill did they gain? I cant really see anything, because clicking fast isnt something terribly useful. So (in Starcraft terms):
What do you transition into after spending 4-5 years semi-not-so-successful with playing a computer game?
Thats the whole problem of eSports. The top pros will have made enough money and fame to support them and give them viable alternatives within the industry, but the spots there are VERY LIMITED and are occupied for much longer than a pro gamer career. There is no semi-usefulness for those not-top-players in other professions as there is in real sports. I know a guy who played football in 4th league (and he wasnt really an amateur during the time) and he is now a teacher with sports as one of his classes. ESports has no such transition and thus it is good if it doesnt grow too big.
The years of 16-24 are very important for a human, because that is the time when you are able to learn new things easy. After that it will become harder and "wasting it" on a "trivial game" (which wont help you in your later 40-60 years) isnt a wise thing to do.
----
Computer games - as a whole - are entertaining to play, but as always there is a limit to when it becomes a bad thing. There was a guy 500 years ago who nailed that perfectly:
Paracelsus (born Philippus Aureolus Theophrastus Bombastus von Hohenheim, 11 November or 17 December 1493 – 24 September 1541)
"All things are poison, and nothing is without poison; only the dose permits something not to be poisonous."
This is one of the major pieces of wisdom which a human has ever come up with and it applies to EVERYTHING IN LIFE. So dont be a spoiled four year old who starts to cry when mommy calls him home from the sandbox and think about eSports rationally and calmly.
After 4-5 years you can become caster, there are many opportunities in gaming industry, you see it's pretty large. There is more than playing as pro in the gaming industry. Did you even watch the videos on the article?
It makes your "I know a guy who played football in 4th league (and he wasnt really an amateur during the time) and he is now a teacher with sports as one of his classes. ESports has no such transition and thus it is good if it doesnt grow too big. " statement ridiculous.
Did you see that MVP coach was ex-progamer?
Also don't use arguments like "So dont be a spoiled four year old who starts to cry when mommy calls him home from the sandbox and think about eSports rationally and calmly." you make yourself look like a fool.
Do you really think that there are spots as a caster for people from the B-team? Really? Enough to sustain someone? Be reasonable. There wont be enough spots for the guys from the A-team ... and there are more B-teamers than them. And even if the ex-pro-players have the knowledge they certainly arent guaranteed to have to verbal skills to be able to cast well enough. Playing Starcraft didnt help them with that in any way.
GSL, MLG, IPL and maybe Dreamhack / Assembly are the few big events which will pay enough for a caster to at least sustain them for a little while, but beyond that there arent any events which pays enough. These events are casted by a few people (maybe 20), but there are LOTS more players than that and I dont see Tastosis making room for anyone else in the near future.
On August 05 2012 14:14 Kontys wrote: Skill or Addiction?
..
Fucking haters.
EDIT: Oh, ok. Just my initial reaction to the title.
This is apparently about gaming addiction. I think they kind of misunderstood what Tasteless was saying about competitivity. Boss part Mr Tasteless, you are handsome.
EDIT2: Oh there was a text part. Well, fuck you CNN. Not cool.
EDIT3: CNN IS RUINING ESPORTS. Fact, but this does not need to go viral.
Oh c'mon and think. Do you really think that eSports is as valid as "real sports"? Sure it is entertaining to watch pro players play their games and to play yourself, BUT did you think about the consequences of eSports for their participants? Take any korean kid from the B-team (and there should be a lot of them) and now tell me which useful things playing Starcraft has taught them for their future life? Which skill did they gain? I cant really see anything, because clicking fast isnt something terribly useful. So (in Starcraft terms):
What do you transition into after spending 4-5 years semi-not-so-successful with playing a computer game?
Thats the whole problem of eSports. The top pros will have made enough money and fame to support them and give them viable alternatives within the industry, but the spots there are VERY LIMITED and are occupied for much longer than a pro gamer career. There is no semi-usefulness for those not-top-players in other professions as there is in real sports. I know a guy who played football in 4th league (and he wasnt really an amateur during the time) and he is now a teacher with sports as one of his classes. ESports has no such transition and thus it is good if it doesnt grow too big.
The years of 16-24 are very important for a human, because that is the time when you are able to learn new things easy. After that it will become harder and "wasting it" on a "trivial game" (which wont help you in your later 40-60 years) isnt a wise thing to do.
----
Computer games - as a whole - are entertaining to play, but as always there is a limit to when it becomes a bad thing. There was a guy 500 years ago who nailed that perfectly:
Paracelsus (born Philippus Aureolus Theophrastus Bombastus von Hohenheim, 11 November or 17 December 1493 – 24 September 1541)
"All things are poison, and nothing is without poison; only the dose permits something not to be poisonous."
This is one of the major pieces of wisdom which a human has ever come up with and it applies to EVERYTHING IN LIFE. So dont be a spoiled four year old who starts to cry when mommy calls him home from the sandbox and think about eSports rationally and calmly.
After 4-5 years you can become caster, there are many opportunities in gaming industry, you see it's pretty large. There is more than playing as pro in the gaming industry. Did you even watch the videos on the article?
It makes your "I know a guy who played football in 4th league (and he wasnt really an amateur during the time) and he is now a teacher with sports as one of his classes. ESports has no such transition and thus it is good if it doesnt grow too big. " statement ridiculous.
Did you see that MVP coach was ex-progamer?
Also don't use arguments like "So dont be a spoiled four year old who starts to cry when mommy calls him home from the sandbox and think about eSports rationally and calmly." you make yourself look like a fool.
Do you really think that there are spots as a caster for people from the B-team? Really? Enough to sustain someone? Be reasonable. There wont be enough spots for the guys from the A-team ... and there are more B-teamers than them.
The reason it's problematic to transition from gaming whole day to a good job is because "esports" is a new thing, not because the essence of it is flawed.
Strip every world-wide obsession with sports, remove all the money dealings and the communities and you get the same thing.
Being a progamer is from a materialistical view point a bad idea in the current age, but I don't think it's a good idea spitting on it from all angles just because it is so. With time maybe "esports" can grow to such a length as normal sports and there will be more opportunities for B-teamers and the like.
Thats stupid. Necessity isnt needed to breed an addiction and for computer games it is the EASY WAY to spend some enjoyable time, because you dont have to move a bit. You dont even have to make a phone call to organize an evening with your friends, you just turn on the computer and log in and whoever is there is there and who isnt isnt. You can play with anyone from anywhere and the world is big enough so that there will always be someone to play with.
While your message is spot-on on the social aspect of gaming, and I think we can all agree about that, you speak as if it were the only aspect of it. Do you really believe people enjoy video games only because of the particular form of people-to-people interaction ?
On August 05 2012 14:14 Kontys wrote: Skill or Addiction?
..
Fucking haters.
EDIT: Oh, ok. Just my initial reaction to the title.
This is apparently about gaming addiction. I think they kind of misunderstood what Tasteless was saying about competitivity. Boss part Mr Tasteless, you are handsome.
EDIT2: Oh there was a text part. Well, fuck you CNN. Not cool.
EDIT3: CNN IS RUINING ESPORTS. Fact, but this does not need to go viral.
Oh c'mon and think. Do you really think that eSports is as valid as "real sports"? Sure it is entertaining to watch pro players play their games and to play yourself, BUT did you think about the consequences of eSports for their participants? Take any korean kid from the B-team (and there should be a lot of them) and now tell me which useful things playing Starcraft has taught them for their future life? Which skill did they gain? I cant really see anything, because clicking fast isnt something terribly useful. So (in Starcraft terms):
What do you transition into after spending 4-5 years semi-not-so-successful with playing a computer game?
Thats the whole problem of eSports. The top pros will have made enough money and fame to support them and give them viable alternatives within the industry, but the spots there are VERY LIMITED and are occupied for much longer than a pro gamer career. There is no semi-usefulness for those not-top-players in other professions as there is in real sports. I know a guy who played football in 4th league (and he wasnt really an amateur during the time) and he is now a teacher with sports as one of his classes. ESports has no such transition and thus it is good if it doesnt grow too big.
The years of 16-24 are very important for a human, because that is the time when you are able to learn new things easy. After that it will become harder and "wasting it" on a "trivial game" (which wont help you in your later 40-60 years) isnt a wise thing to do.
----
Computer games - as a whole - are entertaining to play, but as always there is a limit to when it becomes a bad thing. There was a guy 500 years ago who nailed that perfectly:
Paracelsus (born Philippus Aureolus Theophrastus Bombastus von Hohenheim, 11 November or 17 December 1493 – 24 September 1541)
"All things are poison, and nothing is without poison; only the dose permits something not to be poisonous."
This is one of the major pieces of wisdom which a human has ever come up with and it applies to EVERYTHING IN LIFE. So dont be a spoiled four year old who starts to cry when mommy calls him home from the sandbox and think about eSports rationally and calmly.
After 4-5 years you can become caster, there are many opportunities in gaming industry, you see it's pretty large. There is more than playing as pro in the gaming industry. Did you even watch the videos on the article?
It makes your "I know a guy who played football in 4th league (and he wasnt really an amateur during the time) and he is now a teacher with sports as one of his classes. ESports has no such transition and thus it is good if it doesnt grow too big. " statement ridiculous.
Did you see that MVP coach was ex-progamer?
Also don't use arguments like "So dont be a spoiled four year old who starts to cry when mommy calls him home from the sandbox and think about eSports rationally and calmly." you make yourself look like a fool.
Do you really think that there are spots as a caster for people from the B-team? Really? Enough to sustain someone? Be reasonable. There wont be enough spots for the guys from the A-team ... and there are more B-teamers than them.
The reason it's problematic to transition from gaming whole day to a good job is because "esports" is a new thing, not because the essence of it is flawed.
Strip every world-wide obsession with sports, remove all the money dealings and the communities and you get the same thing.
Being a progamer is from a materialistical view point a bad idea in the current age, but I don't think it's a good idea spitting on it from all angles just because it is so. With time maybe "esports" can grow to such a length as normal sports and there will be more opportunities for B-teamers and the like.
"Its a new thing" is a terrible excuse.
NEW =/= GOOD NEW =/= USEFULL NEW =/= BETTER THAN THE OLD It only MIGHT BE any of the above, but it has to PROVE IT first!
Thats one wisdom from me ... and thus I ask you to prove that it is worth it to grow as big as regular sports, which I doubt due to several reasons:
a) Look at the ton of injuries which plague all those who started playing early. Almost everyone has carpal tunnel syndrome, because what does a kid of 12 do when an adult tells him to "sit straight ..."? Exactly the opposite. It isnt "fun" to have your wrists hurt sometimes for the rest of your life and thus it is a terrible idea. I know mine hurt really bad sometimes and I cant work at my job as a layouter every once in a while.
For real sports you will usually have a trainer who can help to prevent injuries and in any case the usual injuries are "macro injuries" which are treated much easier than any chronic injuries in your arms.
b) The financial bad situation for progamers you mentioned yourself already.
c) Kids need to develop their SOCIAL SKILLS by meeting real people during puberty and that excludes playing games the whole time because of the unused senses as I explained above.
Thats stupid. Necessity isnt needed to breed an addiction and for computer games it is the EASY WAY to spend some enjoyable time, because you dont have to move a bit. You dont even have to make a phone call to organize an evening with your friends, you just turn on the computer and log in and whoever is there is there and who isnt isnt. You can play with anyone from anywhere and the world is big enough so that there will always be someone to play with.
While your message is spot-on on the social aspect of gaming, and I think we can all agree about that, you speak as if it were the only aspect of it. Do you really believe people enjoy video games only because of the particular form of people-to-people interaction ?
I play games for entertainment and to beat others, nothing is so satisfying as defending some 2 bit cheese then macroing up an army and 1a. The only interaction from others I require from games are their tears of defeat.
On August 05 2012 18:31 Kyuki wrote: That's not the problem... You say it very well, but ignore the fact that pretty much all other sports or things in life where achievement require a ton of practice/workout is most often praised and put out to be something positive, whereas within gaming you still have this stereotypical view on how this poison is somehow "even more of a poison".
Fuck that shit.
Also there is much to be learned from playing games in general, both motorically, mentally, logically and from a pure knowledge perspective.
Don't kid yourself. You can learn something, but there are much better ways to learn anything positive that comes from video games. And fast hands are pretty useful -> Maybe that should be a sport as well.
Thats stupid. Necessity isnt needed to breed an addiction and for computer games it is the EASY WAY to spend some enjoyable time, because you dont have to move a bit. You dont even have to make a phone call to organize an evening with your friends, you just turn on the computer and log in and whoever is there is there and who isnt isnt. You can play with anyone from anywhere and the world is big enough so that there will always be someone to play with.
While your message is spot-on on the social aspect of gaming, and I think we can all agree about that, you speak as if it were the only aspect of it. Do you really believe people enjoy video games only because of the particular form of people-to-people interaction ?
Obviously the social aspect is only one part of the game. It isnt even a big part of Starcraft, but rather the "guild games" like WoW.
The point where I noticed that WoW wasnt really a great thing was when some guy tried to explain his own greatness during his last pvp match in guild chat. In a face-to-face meeting you can at least use your hands and arms and facial expressions to make it funny, but in a purely text-based environment that is impossible.
Thus computer games are ok FOR A LIMITED TIME PER DAY and every kid should still work harder on developing real friendships. Facebook friends cant come over and help you out, but real friends can.
wow.. the author of the article tried to be descriptive, but this really doesn't give the level of detail i was hoping for.
'the announcers wear white lab coats and glasses giving them the air of scientists'? 'a glowing blue pyramid spitting out blue termites?' ...well i guess the writing style was a surprise, but the sort of appeal is not. looking inward as a gamer, what is this article actually trying to say?
they're probes.. and cute.. T^T not termites..
"After the tournament, I talked with the psychologist, Dr. Han, about gaming addiction in Korea. I described MarineKing's training habits, and his personal story. He said the number of hours and the intensity with which he approaches "StarCraft II" borders on addiction.
But there's one difference, he said. Pro gamers usually aren't addicts.
Addicts can't succeed on a higher competitive level, he said. The game takes complete control.
Pros, however, find a magical balance. They're obsessed with the game, maybe, but their playing of it isn't depressive, meandering and hopeless. They're chasing after a goal."
it took the entire article to get to that point. alright. whatever... i guess it's a start, rofl
EPT
