EPTWe should just wait till the beta comes out in order to use them because the whole idea of innovation is to use something in a way that had not been thought of before.
[D] Widow Mine Fundamentally Flawed - Page 13
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Traceback
United States469 Posts
We should just wait till the beta comes out in order to use them because the whole idea of innovation is to use something in a way that had not been thought of before. | ||
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Grapefruit
Germany439 Posts
On August 01 2012 04:28 Traceback wrote: During the beta and shortly after release there were many units which were thought to be "useless", some of which are often used today. We should just wait till the beta comes out in order to use them because the whole idea of innovation is to use something in a way that had not been thought of before. For example? If there were "many" you should at least be able to name like 3-5. | ||
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Dyme
Germany523 Posts
On August 01 2012 04:37 Grapefruit wrote: For example? If there were "many" you should at least be able to name like 3-5. No one really used Hellions till SlayerS Terrans came along and made Blizz nerf them. Mothership was completely useless. For a long time Protosses didn't know how incredibly good Zealots with upgrades are. Mutas versus Protoss ~never happened. Ghosts were useless, till suddenly they weren't and then they were nerfed for vP (EMP) and vZ (Snipe). Recently Terrans started using Ravens / BCs in late-lategame scenarios against all races. People have started using Seeker Missiles. Used to be completely useless, way too expensive, way too much micro etc. | ||
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PauseBreak
United States270 Posts
Design flaw: Not to mention the Mine takes up supply. Broodlings don't use supply and they deal damage. Stupid. Design flaw: Any race can throw out a 50 mineral worker (or 25 min Ling) and just run around the map and trade minerals. Terrible mineral trade. Desgin flaw: Just like Spider mines in BW. They, if used, will be only to take dmg away from the units at hand. Too expensive. Solution: Just give Terran a decent 1a unit like Protoss and Zerg have. Fixed. | ||
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antilyon
Brazil2546 Posts
On August 01 2012 04:47 Dyme wrote: No one really used Hellions till SlayerS Terrans came along and made Blizz nerf them. Mothership was completely useless. For a long time Protosses didn't know how incredibly good Zealots with upgrades are. Mutas versus Protoss ~never happened. Ghosts were useless, till suddenly they weren't and then they were nerfed for vP (EMP) and vZ (Snipe). Recently Terrans started using Ravens / BCs in late-lategame scenarios against all races. People have started using Seeker Missiles. Used to be completely useless, way too expensive, way too much micro etc. I understood your point! Blizzard should just nerf the other units in toss unit in HOTS until we play the units they want us to play. | ||
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Grapefruit
Germany439 Posts
On August 01 2012 04:47 Dyme wrote: No one really used Hellions till SlayerS Terrans came along and made Blizz nerf them. Mothership was completely useless. For a long time Protosses didn't know how incredibly good Zealots with upgrades are. Mutas versus Protoss ~never happened. Ghosts were useless, till suddenly they weren't and then they were nerfed for vP (EMP) and vZ (Snipe). Recently Terrans started using Ravens / BCs in late-lategame scenarios against all races. People have started using Seeker Missiles. Used to be completely useless, way too expensive, way too much micro etc. ? You say people thought many units where useless around the release of SC2. I ask you which and you reply with the usage of units far after the release of SC2. Those are two entirely different subjects. | ||
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Dalguno
United States2446 Posts
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Gendi2545
South Africa50 Posts
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Grapefruit
Germany439 Posts
On August 01 2012 05:10 Dalguno wrote: Just a question, do the spider mines damage friendly units? No. | ||
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Babru
196 Posts
I like the idea of widow mine dmg incresing over time, forcing micro. | ||
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Natengall
United States60 Posts
On August 01 2012 04:48 PauseBreak wrote: Design flaw: Its a 3 hour timer that you can simply select your unit and pull it away from your deathball. Not hard. Design flaw: Not to mention the Mine takes up supply. Broodlings don't use supply and they deal damage. Stupid. Design flaw: Any race can throw out a 50 mineral worker (or 25 min Ling) and just run around the map and trade minerals. Terrible mineral trade. Desgin flaw: Just like Spider mines in BW. They, if used, will be only to take dmg away from the units at hand. Too expensive. Solution: Just give Terran a decent 1a unit like Protoss and Zerg have. Fixed. Logic flaw: It's a "3 hour timer (lol)" that your opponent can do absolutely nothing about once your scouting observer, harassing warp prism/oracle gets latched onto while sneaking up on the terran's base. This kind of a unit will ultimately change the metagame of TvP such that all protosses won't even bother harassing with expensive units, because it gets nullified completely by an inexpensive unit that all terrans will surely have because it is easy to deploy and can be separated from the main army to great effect. Logic flaw: The mine takes up a supply that, with 200 target damage, can easily trade for a unit that's four with no micro -- and that supply would not have better been spent on a single marine. If broodlings took up supply, yes, this game would be stupid. Are you really arguing that broodlings should take up supply because they can attack? ...Newsflash: Broodlings are the attack... Logic flaw: Any race can throw out a 50 mineral worker or hallucinations or zerglings or warp in units under a warp prism within range of widow mines and transform the warp prism back into transport mode to exploit a shitty Terran player that keeps his mines in autoattack. A smart terran would turn off autoattack and manually select beefy units (or better: spread out attack commands so that it is much harder to separate targetted units from untargetted units), and turn on autoattack to counter invisible units (dark templars, observers, swarm hosts). Logic flaw: Just like spider mines in BW, the widow mines thrive in situations where your army is kept separate from them, so you don't deal damage to units that are already doomed. Reality: Terrans can now 1a harder than Zerg and Protoss with their newfound warhounds and never have to worry about a counter attack, because of widow mines, yet players like you with the lack of forsight will whine about being underpowered regardless. Dustin Browder himself fears what the widow mine can and will do to the metagame of HotS with the current state of the unit. | ||
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PauseBreak
United States270 Posts
On August 01 2012 07:14 Natengall wrote: Reality: Terrans can now 1a harder than Zerg and Protoss with their newfound warhounds and never have to worry about a counter attack, because of widow mines, yet players like you with the lack of forsight will whine about being underpowered regardless. Dustin Browder himself fears what the widow mine can and will do to the metagame of HotS with the current state of the unit. Reality Check: Terran will not be able to 1a harder than Zerg nor Protoss. Good job destroying any credibility that you had. Which you didn't. Seeing as you play Protoss, 1a'ing is pretty much all you know how to do. So it figures that you would have to "micro" a mined unit out of your deathball would be too taxing for you. | ||
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Babru
196 Posts
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Qibla
Australia343 Posts
I say this as a Terran player who just got demoted and is on tilt, so no bias. Just need to think outside the box instead of expecting to A Move and win. | ||
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Zombo Joe
Canada850 Posts
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Picklebread
808 Posts
On August 01 2012 11:40 Zombo Joe wrote: Why do people say terrans a move, its the only race that gets completely fucking raped if it a moves. I have to agree with this. | ||
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terriBean
Canada75 Posts
How is this bad? It's situational, like any other unit in the game. They all have their own uses. On July 31 2012 03:16 Grapefruit wrote: Also take into consideration that the other player will know about the option of Widow Mines and play accordingly. Protoss, will have an Observer (like pretty much always) Zergs will have Overseeers and Terran will scan like for burrowed Banes or maybe even build Ravens. That reduces the chance of a successful detonation pretty much to zero. Rofl.... ok. 1) Forcing observers/overseers/enemy scans will benefit the widow mine user. 2) Overseers move slower than a lot of zerg units, the widow mine will also help with zerg run-bys. If widow mines are on the map, the enemy player will need to have a detection unit follow their main army should they move out. They'll need more if they want to split up their army and/or do counter attacks. 3) You really haven't made a point, I guess banshee cloak, burrow, and dark templars are all fundamentally flawed units too then, since observers/overseers/scans make them obsolete! gg edit: also, 12:19 | ||
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Griffith`
714 Posts
75 mineral unit that gives you 3 mines. No timer. No supply. Widow Mine: 75/25 unit. 10 second timer. 1 supply. lol wat | ||
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tokicheese
Canada739 Posts
On August 01 2012 11:46 terriBean wrote: Forces enemies to micro differently in battles, and makes it so enemies have to be more careful when pushing/can't charge in blindly. It also forces the Terran to micro should they choose to use widow mines in direct engagements. How is this bad? It's situational, like any other unit in the game. They all have their own uses. Rofl.... ok. 1) Forcing observers/overseers/enemy scans will benefit the widow mine user. 2) Overseers move slower than a lot of zerg units, the widow mine will also help with zerg run-bys. If widow mines are on the map, the enemy player will need to have a detection unit follow their main army should they move out. They'll need more if they want to split up their army and/or do counter attacks. 3) You really haven't made a point, I guess banshee cloak, burrow, and dark templars are all fundamentally flawed units too then, since observers/overseers/scans make them obsolete! gg edit: also, 12:19 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vv-i8s0ipII Who doesnt already have an observer with their protoss army...? Seriously that means nothing to have one they cost basically nothing and any toss who doesn't have one already deserves to lose because cloaked ghosts are incredibly common. There are no overseers any more vipers make things detectors now. So no you made no points at all. Good try though. In the vid he had all his swarm hosts balled and had no buffer for the mines that was just horrific play. | ||
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NATO
United States459 Posts
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