On July 28 2012 06:09 Leyra wrote: Again, it's a hyperbole. (several points in the OP are, in fact, balance whines, or "terran has been nerfed so much", etc.) My only point was if he wants to be taken seriously, and he's gonna get defensive when people come in and post "another balance whine from avilo!" type comments, he should leave balance out of it, and simply bring the discussion up in a neutral manner, or perhaps approaching it from a "design flaw" standpoint.
It's not hyperbole when it's a direct quote. :D
Valid point, sir. Quotations were a bad choice , my mistake :D
On July 28 2012 06:09 Leyra wrote: Again, it's a hyperbole. (several points in the OP are, in fact, balance whines, or "terran has been nerfed so much", etc.) My only point was if he wants to be taken seriously, and he's gonna get defensive when people come in and post "another balance whine from avilo!" type comments, he should leave balance out of it, and simply bring the discussion up in a neutral manner, or perhaps approaching it from a "design flaw" standpoint.
It's not hyperbole when it's a direct quote. :D
Valid point, sir. Quotations were a bad choice , my mistake :D
On July 28 2012 05:01 LittleAtari wrote: Are we seriously complaining about balance in a game that isnt even out yet? You cant say that something is being nerfed in a different game, when you dont even know the state of the other races.
On July 28 2012 05:01 LittleAtari wrote: Are we seriously complaining about balance in a game that isnt even out yet? You cant say that something is being nerfed in a different game, when you dont even know the state of the other races.
This. /thread
You both did not read the thread at all. I even mention at some point in the OP/video that it affects TvT as well...it has nothing per se to do with the other races, it would be just as bad of a design/balance change for TvT lategame as well.
Despite this shitty thread, I have to say that this change would just destroy tvp lategame and would make the mass ghost/viking strategy absolutely useless.
On July 28 2012 05:25 Dagan159 wrote: Wow avilo, from your idiotic rants on StoG, to this whine about something that is something I wouldnt even say is probable of making it into the game, I must say you really do take the cake for the whiney terrans. I play Terran, and yes the race has design flaws, but why dont you spend more time trying to work around them rather than complain over and over again. If the race is so broken how come Taeja just won MLG arena and Ryung made top 4 GSL? Stop trying to make things easier for yourself and start getting better by being better.
people have the right to give feed backs and even blizzard said they wanted more feed backs from the community. you dont have anything nice to say then leave the guy alone. and do u really wanna bring tournament stats into this?
There is feedback and then there is whine. Im afriad in avilo's case the latter is most prevelant. I brought up the fact that some terrans still have done moderately well to highlight the fact that it isnt impossible for Terran to win. Of course the community should be giving feedback to blizzard, but once the diction devolves into that of whine, the community stops benefitting. If avilo doesnt know how to give feedback about the game, he should focus on playing and getting better.
it depend on how you take it imo. i dont take it as a whine. i take it as a feedback and knowledge. but like i said whatever ways he chose to present his stuffs doesnt matter imo, it has the same point.
On July 28 2012 05:39 ThirdDegree wrote: A concern you raise seems to be that you have to send your ghosts uncloaked across the map in order to nuke. What about cloaking and moving to a position, waiting the cooldown, and then nuking? It just requires some babysitting. Being able to just cloak and nuke at will with no control required is a pretty crappy design choice in itself.
a) It's incredibly risky to send a 200/100 unit out too far onto the map uncloaked for the purpose of nuking. But with the change, you would be forced to not cloak until you basically get within your opponent's vision which is bad.
b) As analyzed previously in the OP, if you are forced to move to a position and then cloak it means you have less opportunity to launch nukes with that ghost, as well as your ghost being found.
c) No one cloaks and nukes with zero control, 99% of the time you end up manually controlling your ghost.
a, b) I meant cloak and get relatively close to where you want to nuke, and try to hide the ghost to wait out the cool down, and then cloak and move in. Obviously it's risky to leave an uncloaked ghost out there and hide, but I'm just trying to work within the rules given to terrans.
On July 28 2012 05:25 Dagan159 wrote: Wow avilo, from your idiotic rants on StoG, to this whine about something that is something I wouldnt even say is probable of making it into the game, I must say you really do take the cake for the whiney terrans. I play Terran, and yes the race has design flaws, but why dont you spend more time trying to work around them rather than complain over and over again. If the race is so broken how come Taeja just won MLG arena and Ryung made top 4 GSL? Stop trying to make things easier for yourself and start getting better by being better.
people have the right to give feed backs and even blizzard said they wanted more feed backs from the community. you dont have anything nice to say then leave the guy alone. and do u really wanna bring tournament stats into this?
There is feedback and then there is whine. Im afriad in avilo's case the latter is most prevelant. I brought up the fact that some terrans still have done moderately well to highlight the fact that it isnt impossible for Terran to win. Of course the community should be giving feedback to blizzard, but once the diction devolves into that of whine, the community stops benefitting. If avilo doesnt know how to give feedback about the game, he should focus on playing and getting better.
Welp, the community seems to be on the track of agreeing with the OP, ergo benifitting from the post.
I don't feel that the community agrees with the OP at all. The majority of the posts are negative and do not like the fact that the discussion is about a proposed change talked about during a pre-beta press release. It is like complaining about the quality of food before you have even eaten it.
On July 28 2012 05:25 Dagan159 wrote: Wow avilo, from your idiotic rants on StoG, to this whine about something that is something I wouldnt even say is probable of making it into the game, I must say you really do take the cake for the whiney terrans. I play Terran, and yes the race has design flaws, but why dont you spend more time trying to work around them rather than complain over and over again. If the race is so broken how come Taeja just won MLG arena and Ryung made top 4 GSL? Stop trying to make things easier for yourself and start getting better by being better.
people have the right to give feed backs and even blizzard said they wanted more feed backs from the community. you dont have anything nice to say then leave the guy alone. and do u really wanna bring tournament stats into this?
There is feedback and then there is whine. Im afriad in avilo's case the latter is most prevelant. I brought up the fact that some terrans still have done moderately well to highlight the fact that it isnt impossible for Terran to win. Of course the community should be giving feedback to blizzard, but once the diction devolves into that of whine, the community stops benefitting. If avilo doesnt know how to give feedback about the game, he should focus on playing and getting better.
Welp, the community seems to be on the track of agreeing with the OP, ergo benifitting from the post.
I don't feel that the community agrees with the OP at all. The majority of the posts are negative and do not like the fact that the discussion is about a proposed change talked about during a pre-beta press release. It is like complaining about the quality of food before you have even eaten it.
I feel that this brings out a tons of discussion circulating the topic and that's beneficial.
terran finds and amazing style of play. then blizzard nerf it, we whine about it blizzard says we should figure it out terran figures it out, blizzard nerfs it
They should make cloak more like windwalk, give them a bonus move speed when they're cloaked. That would make this cooldown thing a lot more reasonable.
Infestors: can burrow, which disallows them use of 2 skills
Ghosts: can cloak, costs energy but still allows them use of all their skills
High Templar: Slow as shit, only protective skill they have is to permanently turn 2 of them into another, non-spellcasting unit.
I'd say looking at things on paper this seems like a decent change. Without the finalized stats we can't be certain, but I don't really see an issue with it. We don't know how long the cloak will be in the final release, we don't know how long the cooldown to use cloak again will be.
I think you should really just calm down, dude. You're way too stressed about something that hasn't even come to pass yet. Once the pros get into the beta, Blizzard will have a decent sampling of high level play to tweak the game on.
EDIT: Just so it's clear, I play zerg. I realize looking at it that my high templar sentence was a little bitchy.
On July 28 2012 05:25 Dagan159 wrote: Wow avilo, from your idiotic rants on StoG, to this whine about something that is something I wouldnt even say is probable of making it into the game, I must say you really do take the cake for the whiney terrans. I play Terran, and yes the race has design flaws, but why dont you spend more time trying to work around them rather than complain over and over again. If the race is so broken how come Taeja just won MLG arena and Ryung made top 4 GSL? Stop trying to make things easier for yourself and start getting better by being better.
people have the right to give feed backs and even blizzard said they wanted more feed backs from the community. you dont have anything nice to say then leave the guy alone. and do u really wanna bring tournament stats into this?
There is feedback and then there is whine. Im afriad in avilo's case the latter is most prevelant. I brought up the fact that some terrans still have done moderately well to highlight the fact that it isnt impossible for Terran to win. Of course the community should be giving feedback to blizzard, but once the diction devolves into that of whine, the community stops benefitting. If avilo doesnt know how to give feedback about the game, he should focus on playing and getting better.
it depend on how you take it imo. i dont take it as a whine. i take it as a feedback and knowledge. but like i said whatever ways he chose to present his stuffs doesnt matter imo, it has the same point.
The point may be the same, but the way in which it is presented does matter. These forums have standards. It is the reason TL is one of the best community sites on the web. It is the reason people can have debates rather than just mudslinging.
This is just a change for noobs, noobs HATE to turn on abilities which cost energy for fear of being wasteful, instead they don't use it at all. So this "one time cost" will make noobs feel safer and like they are not wasting something... Just like 2K in the bank when they are dying makes them safe and warm so does 200 energy on a ghost.
On July 28 2012 06:23 Noobity wrote: Infestors: can burrow, which disallows them use of 2 skills
Ghosts: can cloak, costs energy but still allows them use of all their skills
High Templar: Slow as shit, only protective skill they have is to permanently turn 2 of them into another, non-spellcasting unit.
I'd say looking at things on paper this seems like a decent change. Without the finalized stats we can't be certain, but I don't really see an issue with it. We don't know how long the cloak will be in the final release, we don't know how long the cooldown to use cloak again will be.
I think you should really just calm down, dude. You're way too stressed about something that hasn't even come to pass yet. Once the pros get into the beta, Blizzard will have a decent sampling of high level play to tweak the game on.
EDIT: Just so it's clear, I play zerg. I realize looking at it that my high templar sentence was a little bitchy.
There's a lot more to the comparison than what you said...
On July 28 2012 05:25 Dagan159 wrote: Wow avilo, from your idiotic rants on StoG, to this whine about something that is something I wouldnt even say is probable of making it into the game, I must say you really do take the cake for the whiney terrans. I play Terran, and yes the race has design flaws, but why dont you spend more time trying to work around them rather than complain over and over again. If the race is so broken how come Taeja just won MLG arena and Ryung made top 4 GSL? Stop trying to make things easier for yourself and start getting better by being better.
people have the right to give feed backs and even blizzard said they wanted more feed backs from the community. you dont have anything nice to say then leave the guy alone. and do u really wanna bring tournament stats into this?
There is feedback and then there is whine. Im afriad in avilo's case the latter is most prevelant. I brought up the fact that some terrans still have done moderately well to highlight the fact that it isnt impossible for Terran to win. Of course the community should be giving feedback to blizzard, but once the diction devolves into that of whine, the community stops benefitting. If avilo doesnt know how to give feedback about the game, he should focus on playing and getting better.
Welp, the community seems to be on the track of agreeing with the OP, ergo benifitting from the post.
I don't feel that the community agrees with the OP at all. The majority of the posts are negative and do not like the fact that the discussion is about a proposed change talked about during a pre-beta press release. It is like complaining about the quality of food before you have even eaten it.
I feel that this brings out a tons of discussion circulating the topic and that's beneficial.
Not if the discussion is based on bad, incorrect or misinformation. The title of the thread before the mod changed it showed that the OP was not very good. At best, the discussion will be vague and have little bearing on how the changes will affect the beta as a whole. At worse, it can spread misinformation or bias the community to be pro or against a change they have limited information on. This could hurt testing of the change if people think it is bad without cause. Much like claiming that food is horrible because it has a funny name.
On July 28 2012 05:25 Dagan159 wrote: Wow avilo, from your idiotic rants on StoG, to this whine about something that is something I wouldnt even say is probable of making it into the game, I must say you really do take the cake for the whiney terrans. I play Terran, and yes the race has design flaws, but why dont you spend more time trying to work around them rather than complain over and over again. If the race is so broken how come Taeja just won MLG arena and Ryung made top 4 GSL? Stop trying to make things easier for yourself and start getting better by being better.
people have the right to give feed backs and even blizzard said they wanted more feed backs from the community. you dont have anything nice to say then leave the guy alone. and do u really wanna bring tournament stats into this?
There is feedback and then there is whine. Im afriad in avilo's case the latter is most prevelant. I brought up the fact that some terrans still have done moderately well to highlight the fact that it isnt impossible for Terran to win. Of course the community should be giving feedback to blizzard, but once the diction devolves into that of whine, the community stops benefitting. If avilo doesnt know how to give feedback about the game, he should focus on playing and getting better.
Welp, the community seems to be on the track of agreeing with the OP, ergo benifitting from the post.
I don't feel that the community agrees with the OP at all. The majority of the posts are negative and do not like the fact that the discussion is about a proposed change talked about during a pre-beta press release. It is like complaining about the quality of food before you have even eaten it.
I feel that this brings out a tons of discussion circulating the topic and that's beneficial.
Not if the discussion is based on bad, incorrect or misinformation. The title of the thread before the mod changed it showed that the OP was not very good. At best, the discussion will be vague and have little bearing on how the changes will affect the beta as a whole. At worse, it can spread misinformation or bias the community to be pro or against a change they have limited information on. This could hurt testing of the change if people think it is bad without cause. Much like claiming that food is horrible because it has a funny name.
What a terrible analogy. It would be like claiming that food is horrible before you try it because you heard it a casserole with dog food and ketchup. Sounds horrible, but a few are waiting judgement until they actually try it.
EPT
, my mistake :D
