On July 28 2012 08:04 ROOTCatZ wrote: Avilo nothing you say has any relevance in my eyes, every race is getting changes in HotS, the zerg units are likely the most useless and will have less impact, while the hydra and ultra buffs are nice, the other 2 aren't v good. ALL you ever do, since the beta is complain about stuff you don't even understand, its pathetic, when terran was broken you and lzgamer were the only 2 terrans to deny it. these days ALL you do is rage and qq about zerg and protoss. I don't know what race you played in the game you played before, but if i had to guess it was the worst race. Reality is avilo, you need to look into your flaws, your mechanics aren't actually terrible, you're just really bad and your decision making is not very good, watching your stream is painful on the brain and you need to realize that its you who sucks, not the game. the sooner, the better.
Note: I don't think of myself as levels above avilo or anything in that regard, even though i very rarely lose to him, and not cause zerg is op or blabla, i mean i rarely lose to him for the last 2 years. But the harsh reality here is every race has its strengths and weaknesses and if we're not looking into our own mistakes and blaming blizzard about everything, we're never gonna improve. Avilo, learn to type 'gg' after gettin pwnd and learn to acknowledge your mistakes instead of blaming 'browder' for your sucking.
LOL? I agree with all of your critiques about Avilo, but Zerg gets the worst from HotS? Are you kidding me? Maybe the Swarm Host, but the Viper is amazing.
The hydra speed buff is the most important addition that zerg got imo, the viper is a late game unit and the swarm host is more of a drop/harass unit more than anything. As of now terran has the best additions followed by zerg and then toss(and i swear to god im not being biased). Terran now has 3 new useful units (counting spider mines which by the way, is the most OP unit addition in HOTS) that they can add into their unit composition at any stage of the game whereas protoss didnt get any new attacking unit to help their early/midd game. Also all the OP mothership core abilities like energize are going to get nerfed anyways so theres no point in debating over how good it is, in what fucking world did blizzard think that an ability that gives 100 energy to your nexus for the cost of 25 energy would be balanced? r.o.f.l
tbh i would be shocked if blizzard didnt make any major changes to the protoss units before releasing the beta, i expect them to add 1 new early/midd game unit
I'm not sure why you're dismissing vipers and saying hyrdra buff is the most significant when hydra speed upgrade is hive tech. That's also late game.
I honestly think it's a bit silly to be talking about balance for HOTS when nobody has even played it yet. It's a bit ridiculous.
consume is going to get nerfed and blinding cloud has no use in zvp, ur only going to be left with abduct in zvp and infestors already fulfill the same role to an extent
On July 28 2012 10:04 S1eth wrote: IIRC, Browder said that this change was supposed to help Terrans manage the energy on their ghosts, i.e. not forgetting to turn off cloak and running out of energy. This change is aimed at the lower level Terran players, but hurts those who already know how to properly manage their ghosts, meaning it hurts high-level Terrans. Did they change cloak on Banshee as well?
Agreed. This hurts high level play.
Also while the numbers can change, the concept itself can be talked about.
Where were all the people who right now saying "wait for the beta" when the Shredder and Replicant was released?
This is one of those changes you can easily talk about now instead of later.
i was shitting on the replicant 1 week after blizzard introduced it, everyone was hating on me :[
and avilos point is retarded because he doesnt even factor in all the new terran units into his argument, hes just isolating 1 random ability without even fully understanding the reason why it might have been nerfed that way. the type of argument hes trying to make requires alot of gameplay analysis
On July 28 2012 08:04 ROOTCatZ wrote: Avilo nothing you say has any relevance in my eyes, every race is getting changes in HotS, the zerg units are likely the most useless and will have less impact, while the hydra and ultra buffs are nice, the other 2 aren't v good. ALL you ever do, since the beta is complain about stuff you don't even understand, its pathetic, when terran was broken you and lzgamer were the only 2 terrans to deny it. these days ALL you do is rage and qq about zerg and protoss. I don't know what race you played in the game you played before, but if i had to guess it was the worst race. Reality is avilo, you need to look into your flaws, your mechanics aren't actually terrible, you're just really bad and your decision making is not very good, watching your stream is painful on the brain and you need to realize that its you who sucks, not the game. the sooner, the better.
Note: I don't think of myself as levels above avilo or anything in that regard, even though i very rarely lose to him, and not cause zerg is op or blabla, i mean i rarely lose to him for the last 2 years. But the harsh reality here is every race has its strengths and weaknesses and if we're not looking into our own mistakes and blaming blizzard about everything, we're never gonna improve. Avilo, learn to type 'gg' after gettin pwnd and learn to acknowledge your mistakes instead of blaming 'browder' for your sucking.
LOL? I agree with all of your critiques about Avilo, but Zerg gets the worst from HotS? Are you kidding me? Maybe the Swarm Host, but the Viper is amazing.
The hydra speed buff is the most important addition that zerg got imo, the viper is a late game unit and the swarm host is more of a drop/harass unit more than anything. As of now terran has the best additions followed by zerg and then toss(and i swear to god im not being biased). Terran now has 3 new useful units (counting spider mines which by the way, is the most OP unit addition in HOTS) that they can add into their unit composition at any stage of the game whereas protoss didnt get any new attacking unit to help their early/midd game. Also all the OP mothership core abilities like energize are going to get nerfed anyways so theres no point in debating over how good it is, in what fucking world did blizzard think that an ability that gives 100 energy to your nexus for the cost of 25 energy would be balanced? r.o.f.l
tbh i would be shocked if blizzard didnt make any major changes to the protoss units before releasing the beta, i expect them to add 1 new early/midd game unit
I'm not sure why you're dismissing vipers and saying hyrdra buff is the most significant when hydra speed upgrade is hive tech. That's also late game.
I honestly think it's a bit silly to be talking about balance for HOTS when nobody has even played it yet. It's a bit ridiculous.
consume is going to get nerfed and blinding cloud has no use in zvp, ur only going to be left with abduct in zvp and infestors already fulfill the same role to an extent
Eh I can see vipers being stronger zvp then infestors in some stages. Abduct will be incredibly powerful in picking apart some units like colossi which is what makes the protoss army so strong. Being able to snipe those 1 by 1 is going to be sexy as hell.
On July 28 2012 08:04 ROOTCatZ wrote: Avilo nothing you say has any relevance in my eyes, every race is getting changes in HotS, the zerg units are likely the most useless and will have less impact, while the hydra and ultra buffs are nice, the other 2 aren't v good. ALL you ever do, since the beta is complain about stuff you don't even understand, its pathetic, when terran was broken you and lzgamer were the only 2 terrans to deny it. these days ALL you do is rage and qq about zerg and protoss. I don't know what race you played in the game you played before, but if i had to guess it was the worst race. Reality is avilo, you need to look into your flaws, your mechanics aren't actually terrible, you're just really bad and your decision making is not very good, watching your stream is painful on the brain and you need to realize that its you who sucks, not the game. the sooner, the better.
Note: I don't think of myself as levels above avilo or anything in that regard, even though i very rarely lose to him, and not cause zerg is op or blabla, i mean i rarely lose to him for the last 2 years. But the harsh reality here is every race has its strengths and weaknesses and if we're not looking into our own mistakes and blaming blizzard about everything, we're never gonna improve. Avilo, learn to type 'gg' after gettin pwnd and learn to acknowledge your mistakes instead of blaming 'browder' for your sucking.
LOL? I agree with all of your critiques about Avilo, but Zerg gets the worst from HotS? Are you kidding me? Maybe the Swarm Host, but the Viper is amazing.
The hydra speed buff is the most important addition that zerg got imo, the viper is a late game unit and the swarm host is more of a drop/harass unit more than anything. As of now terran has the best additions followed by zerg and then toss(and i swear to god im not being biased). Terran now has 3 new useful units (counting spider mines which by the way, is the most OP unit addition in HOTS) that they can add into their unit composition at any stage of the game whereas protoss didnt get any new attacking unit to help their early/midd game. Also all the OP mothership core abilities like energize are going to get nerfed anyways so theres no point in debating over how good it is, in what fucking world did blizzard think that an ability that gives 100 energy to your nexus for the cost of 25 energy would be balanced? r.o.f.l
tbh i would be shocked if blizzard didnt make any major changes to the protoss units before releasing the beta, i expect them to add 1 new early/midd game unit
I'm not sure why you're dismissing vipers and saying hyrdra buff is the most significant when hydra speed upgrade is hive tech. That's also late game.
I honestly think it's a bit silly to be talking about balance for HOTS when nobody has even played it yet. It's a bit ridiculous.
consume is going to get nerfed and blinding cloud has no use in zvp, ur only going to be left with abduct in zvp and infestors already fulfill the same role to an extent
Biggest issues with all of these units is that they are one dimensional ... Like sure you might see some cool different uses out of them, like drop harassing with a battle hellion or nydusing swarm hosts but at high level play? I mean... It's basically going to be used for exactly its purpose, which imo is a fundemental problem with creative play.
The reason why BW was so fucking good was because its units were multi dimensonal, sure the tank was pretty straight forward and people understood what the carrier was for but morphing lurkers to block ramps with the egg and stacking mutas or jumping over pylon walls with vultures were not suppose to be (or were technically a design flaw) but made the game so much better.
Blizzard is taking this game the wrong way, it's saying "I want X to counter Y" which is basically turning into "If I have more X's to your Y's then I win but if you hide Z from me which directly counters my X's.." this whole concept of counter by counter is really really boring. I watch a lategame composition of Zerg vs Terran and I go "Well... The Terran doesn't have enough vikings, he lost this game" and what do you know, unless Taeja does some magical micro the Terran 90% of time loses and I see it coming..
So to get back to it, TT1 is right. The biggest changes are the possible viability of Hydras (which I still think should be brought from lair tech to hatch tech and speed at the lair) and the ultra buff. I also agree that Protoss got the shit end of the stick becuase Blizzard couldn't fix the deathball design flaw so they couldn't give Protoss anymore useful units.
EDIT: Like that fucking stupid tempest that has 100 range... What in the fuck is that. Why not just make it so the Carrier has the same fucking pathing as it did in BW (it's pretty simple, just go integrate the pathing from your previous game) so it can micro... Gah and the replicant? "Well we noticed that we ran out of ideas for a unit, so we decided to make a unit that could become ANYTHING!, good idea right?" That'll sure stop gimmicky play. Gah and then the oracle? Shit me sideways that thing is a piece of shit...
On July 28 2012 08:04 ROOTCatZ wrote: Avilo nothing you say has any relevance in my eyes, every race is getting changes in HotS, the zerg units are likely the most useless and will have less impact, while the hydra and ultra buffs are nice, the other 2 aren't v good. ALL you ever do, since the beta is complain about stuff you don't even understand, its pathetic, when terran was broken you and lzgamer were the only 2 terrans to deny it. these days ALL you do is rage and qq about zerg and protoss. I don't know what race you played in the game you played before, but if i had to guess it was the worst race. Reality is avilo, you need to look into your flaws, your mechanics aren't actually terrible, you're just really bad and your decision making is not very good, watching your stream is painful on the brain and you need to realize that its you who sucks, not the game. the sooner, the better.
Note: I don't think of myself as levels above avilo or anything in that regard, even though i very rarely lose to him, and not cause zerg is op or blabla, i mean i rarely lose to him for the last 2 years. But the harsh reality here is every race has its strengths and weaknesses and if we're not looking into our own mistakes and blaming blizzard about everything, we're never gonna improve. Avilo, learn to type 'gg' after gettin pwnd and learn to acknowledge your mistakes instead of blaming 'browder' for your sucking.
LOL? I agree with all of your critiques about Avilo, but Zerg gets the worst from HotS? Are you kidding me? Maybe the Swarm Host, but the Viper is amazing.
The hydra speed buff is the most important addition that zerg got imo, the viper is a late game unit and the swarm host is more of a drop/harass unit more than anything. As of now terran has the best additions followed by zerg and then toss(and i swear to god im not being biased). Terran now has 3 new useful units (counting spider mines which by the way, is the most OP unit addition in HOTS) that they can add into their unit composition at any stage of the game whereas protoss didnt get any new attacking unit to help their early/midd game. Also all the OP mothership core abilities like energize are going to get nerfed anyways so theres no point in debating over how good it is, in what fucking world did blizzard think that an ability that gives 100 energy to your nexus for the cost of 25 energy would be balanced? r.o.f.l
tbh i would be shocked if blizzard didnt make any major changes to the protoss units before releasing the beta, i expect them to add 1 new early/midd game unit
I'm not sure why you're dismissing vipers and saying hyrdra buff is the most significant when hydra speed upgrade is hive tech. That's also late game.
I honestly think it's a bit silly to be talking about balance for HOTS when nobody has even played it yet. It's a bit ridiculous.
consume is going to get nerfed and blinding cloud has no use in zvp, ur only going to be left with abduct in zvp and infestors already fulfill the same role to an extent
Eh I can see vipers being stronger zvp then infestors in some stages. Abduct will be incredibly powerful in picking apart some units like colossi which is what makes the protoss army so strong. Being able to snipe those 1 by 1 is going to be sexy as hell.
sure but zerg wont be able to skip infestors pre hive or else theyd die to colossus/blink stalker timings, by the time their hive is out i dont think theyd have enough gas to tech to both vipers and broodlords. imo viper tech is going to happen after bl's so the zerg ends up with an even stronger deathball, anything before that might be too risky
I bet half the reply's in this thread only read the first sentence.
If this change somehow gets into HotS then the Ghost will become vitally useless. Oh wait... Why can't Blizzard's balance team just get fired and replaced with 3/6/9 pro players? It would be cheaper and more effective than their current system.
But as Beta isn't out we can only hope the beta testers bitch like there is no tomorrow. Then Blizzard will nerf bunkers again instead (sarcasm).
I just like that they think of ways to change ghost cloak when there is one race whos cloak is more permanent for 0 energy usage, sounds like a sweet deal to me
On July 28 2012 08:04 ROOTCatZ wrote: Avilo nothing you say has any relevance in my eyes, every race is getting changes in HotS, the zerg units are likely the most useless and will have less impact, while the hydra and ultra buffs are nice, the other 2 aren't v good. ALL you ever do, since the beta is complain about stuff you don't even understand, its pathetic, when terran was broken you and lzgamer were the only 2 terrans to deny it. these days ALL you do is rage and qq about zerg and protoss. I don't know what race you played in the game you played before, but if i had to guess it was the worst race. Reality is avilo, you need to look into your flaws, your mechanics aren't actually terrible, you're just really bad and your decision making is not very good, watching your stream is painful on the brain and you need to realize that its you who sucks, not the game. the sooner, the better.
Note: I don't think of myself as levels above avilo or anything in that regard, even though i very rarely lose to him, and not cause zerg is op or blabla, i mean i rarely lose to him for the last 2 years. But the harsh reality here is every race has its strengths and weaknesses and if we're not looking into our own mistakes and blaming blizzard about everything, we're never gonna improve. Avilo, learn to type 'gg' after gettin pwnd and learn to acknowledge your mistakes instead of blaming 'browder' for your sucking.
What the fuck? I expect better from you catz. Did you just come here to brag or something? This thread has nothing to do with "QQing," let alone you or me personally, why you would come here and bash me is beyond me. This thread has to do with a terrible design change. If they changed the infestor to be similar with a cool down on burrow...it would be just as bad of a design decision, and an unnecessary change.
Or did you just post in this thread to try to discredit me/give credibility to the 1 liners in this thread? Very low. You literally said nothing about the topic at hand anywhere in your post lmao.
Take your mindless bashing to reddit where it belongs, stop trying to derail this this thread is not about me, it's about what blizzard has said they are considering doing to the ghost.
p.s. I thought it was cute yesterday that after my 3 hr stream session of the HOTS beta in the morning you had obviously been watching my stream and then got the idea to stream HOTS beta custom games from my stream I was flattered.
sorry bro but this a QQ thread, ur just talking about how stupid it is for ghosts to get nerfed without even understanding the reasoning behind it. if this were an argument u would have provided examples in order to prove your point, which sadly u didnt do :[
#1 - Game isn't out yet. #2 - You can't mindlessly que 10 ghosts go to to 10 different locations and nuke with no effort involved, QQ. #3 - You're bad at the game, they could make ghost cloak cost no energy and nukes be free and you would still suck at the game.
On July 28 2012 16:24 Alasper wrote: #1 - Game isn't out yet. #2 - You can't mindlessly que 10 ghosts go to to 10 different locations and nuke with no effort involved, QQ. #3 - You're bad at the game, they could make ghost cloak cost no energy and nukes be free and you would still suck at the game.
If this warrants a ban sorry, but worth it.
Ya this warrants a ban because you talked about. I don't get why people make posts and say stuff when they should know that's what will get you banned lol saying "if this gets me banned it was worth it" or something along those lines is seen as martying and will get you banned no matter how good your post is.
On July 28 2012 15:04 X3GoldDot wrote: terrans seem to be able to come up with everything in the world to qq.
Every race does this. It's how Ghosts got nerfed, Infestors got nerfed, early stim got nerfed, Overlords got buffed, Queens got buffed, Templar got nerfed. A dynamic online game with frequent patching will always have people who insist on blaming alltheir failures on the balance of the game. I'm not saying that's what Avilo does--my limited perception of him, while conducive to that assumption, really isn't enough to say for sure. But there's a reason I take complaints more seriously from guys like QXC than from other Terrans. Players like him are constantly making the utmost effort to adapt. Avilo is basically saying it's imbalance that a WoL playstyle can't be copied, action-for-action, into a HotS matchup. This only perpetuates my perception of Avilo as someone who never tries to pioneer new playstyles, or even tweak old ones.
On July 28 2012 15:53 ROOTT1 wrote: ur just talking about how stupid it is for ghosts to get nerfed without even understanding the reasoning behind it.
Blizzard's great at 'reasoning' but reasoning doesn't mean you're good at game design. So where does that leave us? SC2 is mediocre with the potential to go backwards with HotS. Thus, these threads complaining about pigeonholing units and bronze balance. QXC talked about this the last time they made a poor decision with the ghost. If you won't listen to Avilo, listen to him. QXC was pioneering ghosts vs marines and then the pointless nerf cam that pigeonholed ghosts into a simplistic anti-caster role. And then the cloak thing....
On July 28 2012 16:24 Alasper wrote: #1 - Game isn't out yet. #2 - You can't mindlessly que 10 ghosts go to to 10 different locations and nuke with no effort involved, QQ. #3 - You're bad at the game, they could make ghost cloak cost no energy and nukes be free and you would still suck at the game.
There are a million things both inside the game and outside (for instance, clan support and LAN) that people voiced their opinions about long before WoL was released with still no results. There's no harm in talking. The earlier we talk about something, the faster we can become correct.
I don't understand your second point (I'm ignoring the third, and you should know why). In what serious game are you going to have 10 ghost academies, let alone be able to find 10 different places that are actually worth nuking? Yet if someone actually gathered that many nukes and managed to not die, you think the cloak mechanic needs to change so he trips over the game while trying to execute that kind of play? What are you even talking about?
When people start arguing balance based on a single unit you know the argument is wrong.
"The reason the HOTS change is a nerf to Terran lategame and nuke harrassment and the cloak ability in general is because of how nuke harrassment works."
Who cares if nerfing the ghost makes Terran lategame weaker? have you considered that the new units and dynamics may make it stronger? Even imbalancedly stronger? As TLO said, whoever is arguing about balance in HOTS should use their panties as a hat.
I thought this was something serious, like " hey guys there is a bug where a ghost de cloack while it nukes" or something around the lines. Instead is a complain about not being able to just send a ghost cloack and shift command it to nuke for 2 minutes in the late game ? A ghost doesn't need to be cloacked other than when nuking ( it need to be when nuking so that you can't just kill it with probes, or at least you need a cannon in a very good spot to be able to kill it with probes ), but when moving... unless the protoss has randomly placed stalkers around the map or unless you send it into the protoss tower vision , it doesn't need the fucking cloack. You are basically complaining about you not being able to just cloack it once and harras with a 300 damage aoe without doing the horrible multitasking that is pressing 1 button before the ghost nukes.
WoW, just wow, I was sorry for you when they mocked you at SOTG, i think i actually posted defending you... i didn't knew this kinda of shit is the reason why they did it. Now i see what they were talking about with the "avilo thread' thing... NOT to fucking mention this is not even HOTS beta yet, its a CUSTOM map made after a god damn ALFA.
On July 28 2012 17:04 Aterons_toss wrote: I thought this was something serious, like " hey guys there is a bug where a ghost de cloack while it nukes" or something around the lines. Instead is a complain about not being able to just send a ghost cloack and shift command it to nuke for 2 minutes in the late game ? A ghost doesn't need to be cloacked other than when nuking ( it need to be when nuking so that you can't just kill it with probes, or at least you need a cannon in a very good spot to be able to kill it with probes ), but when moving... unless the protoss has randomly placed stalkers around the map or unless you send it into the protoss tower vision , it doesn't need the fucking cloack. You are basically complaining about you not being able to just cloack it once and harras with a 300 damage aoe without doing the horrible multitasking that is pressing 1 button before the ghost nukes.
WoW, just wow, I was sorry for you when they mocked you at SOTG, i think i actually posted defending you... i didn't knew this kinda of shit is the reason why they did it. Now i see what they were talking about with the "avilo thread' thing... NOT to fucking mention this is not even HOTS beta yet, its a CUSTOM map made after a god damn ALFA.
Good luck sending a ghost without cloak against Zerg when there's creep everywhere.
And with bigger maps coming out this will effectively relegate nuke play to Silver league where opponents don't use the minimap.
EPT
this thread is not about me, it's about what blizzard has said they are considering doing to the ghost.
