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On July 28 2012 12:44 stfouri wrote:
Just because his nick is avilo and some sotg kiddies like to pick on random community kids does not change the fact that this change is unjustified.
Yap, lots of un-necessary hate itt. "Look at me, I'm cool, I made fun of that nerd avilo like they did on sotg!1!"
Change feels silly, even the reasoning behind it seems silly. The whole aspect of managing ghost energy and cloaking and uncloaking at the right times adds tactical depth. I don't know about the balance implications, but from that standpoint its just kind of un-necessary.
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On July 28 2012 08:19 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 08:04 ROOTCatZ wrote:
Avilo nothing you say has any relevance in my eyes, every race is getting changes in HotS, the zerg units are likely the most useless and will have less impact, while the hydra and ultra buffs are nice, the other 2 aren't v good. ALL you ever do, since the beta is complain about stuff you don't even understand, its pathetic, when terran was broken you and lzgamer were the only 2 terrans to deny it. these days ALL you do is rage and qq about zerg and protoss. I don't know what race you played in the game you played before, but if i had to guess it was the worst race. Reality is avilo, you need to look into your flaws, your mechanics aren't actually terrible, you're just really bad and your decision making is not very good, watching your stream is painful on the brain and you need to realize that its you who sucks, not the game. the sooner, the better.
Note: I don't think of myself as levels above avilo or anything in that regard, even though i very rarely lose to him, and not cause zerg is op or blabla, i mean i rarely lose to him for the last 2 years. But the harsh reality here is every race has its strengths and weaknesses and if we're not looking into our own mistakes and blaming blizzard about everything, we're never gonna improve. Avilo, learn to type 'gg' after gettin pwnd and learn to acknowledge your mistakes instead of blaming 'browder' for your sucking. LOL? I agree with all of your critiques about Avilo, but Zerg gets the worst from HotS? Are you kidding me? Maybe the Swarm Host, but the Viper is amazing.
The hydra speed buff is the most important addition that zerg got imo, the viper is a late game unit and the swarm host is more of a drop/harass unit more than anything. As of now terran has the best additions followed by zerg and then toss(and i swear to god im not being biased). Terran now has 3 new useful units (counting spider mines which by the way, is the most OP unit addition in HOTS) that they can add into their unit composition at any stage of the game whereas protoss didnt get any new attacking unit to help their early/midd game. Also all the OP mothership core abilities like energize are going to get nerfed anyways so theres no point in debating over how good it is, in what fucking world did blizzard think that an ability that gives 100 energy to your nexus for the cost of 25 energy would be balanced? r.o.f.l
tbh i would be shocked if blizzard didnt make any major changes to the protoss units before releasing the beta, i expect them to add 1 new early/midd game unit
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Once again, a good change for newbies and a bad one for the players who can handle themselves the cloack/uncloack ability. Pure theorycraft, but this change would kind of buff EMP and snipe (more energy) while nerfing Nuke, right ? Sounds like a step into the wrong direction.
Also, in my newbie opinion, casters should have an energy bar or cooldown, but not both at the same time, that's an half-assed new mechanic which was designed to solve a problem that never existed in the first place.
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I tried the HOTS custom and my biggest problem for me was indeed this change. Thanks for bringing attention to it.
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I wanted to inb4 sotg drones hated on avilo, but it appears i was too late.
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I dunno, I think we'll have lots of time to complain about the game when the beta comes out.
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On July 28 2012 13:01 ROOTT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 08:19 Shiori wrote:On July 28 2012 08:04 ROOTCatZ wrote:
Avilo nothing you say has any relevance in my eyes, every race is getting changes in HotS, the zerg units are likely the most useless and will have less impact, while the hydra and ultra buffs are nice, the other 2 aren't v good. ALL you ever do, since the beta is complain about stuff you don't even understand, its pathetic, when terran was broken you and lzgamer were the only 2 terrans to deny it. these days ALL you do is rage and qq about zerg and protoss. I don't know what race you played in the game you played before, but if i had to guess it was the worst race. Reality is avilo, you need to look into your flaws, your mechanics aren't actually terrible, you're just really bad and your decision making is not very good, watching your stream is painful on the brain and you need to realize that its you who sucks, not the game. the sooner, the better.
Note: I don't think of myself as levels above avilo or anything in that regard, even though i very rarely lose to him, and not cause zerg is op or blabla, i mean i rarely lose to him for the last 2 years. But the harsh reality here is every race has its strengths and weaknesses and if we're not looking into our own mistakes and blaming blizzard about everything, we're never gonna improve. Avilo, learn to type 'gg' after gettin pwnd and learn to acknowledge your mistakes instead of blaming 'browder' for your sucking. LOL? I agree with all of your critiques about Avilo, but Zerg gets the worst from HotS? Are you kidding me? Maybe the Swarm Host, but the Viper is amazing. The hydra speed buff is the most important addition that zerg got imo, the viper is a late game unit and the swarm host is more of a drop/harass unit more than anything. As of now terran has the best additions followed by zerg and then toss(and i swear to god im not being biased). Terran now has 3 new useful units (counting spider mines which by the way, is the most OP unit addition in HOTS) that they can add into their unit composition at any stage of the game whereas protoss didnt get any new attacking unit to help their early/midd game. Also all the OP mothership core abilities like energize are going to get nerfed anyways so theres no point in debating over how good it is, in what fucking world did blizzard think an ability that gives 100 energy to your nexus for the cost of 25 energy would be balanced? r.o.f.l tbh i would be shocked if blizzard didnt make any major changes to the protoss units before releasing the beta, i expect them to add 1 new early/midd game unit
Terran has the best buff?
Haha.
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I'm not exactly a fan of considering the changes as purely "nerfs" as you seemed to emphasize the change as, I can see how it might make for poor game design, mostly from the perspective you outline in some of your intermediary posts throughout the thread.
To be honest the argument that it makes it more difficult to get a Ghost into position is... fine, I like that it should be more than pick a Cloaked Ghost out and set him off to Nuke, that sort of vulnerability makes it a more interesting endeavor in my opinion.
The concerns about cloak and Medivacs and the likes are legitimate, but dismissing the change as a whole due to it being a "nerf" is something I can't really condone. It is under development and that needs to be taken into consideration, personally since Blizzard seems to want to do something with Cloaking it might be an area they're open to suggestions in, I'd like to hear what some people might like in the realm of Ghost changes with regards specifically to cloaking, energy consumption and nukes.
Still, you might want to open your mind to the positives of the change and ignore any sort of balance perspective, this change has some positive impacts of skill requirements, while it does also pose some negative aspects of the Ghost's cloaking design.
Thats my that about this.
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The ghost change isn't happening in a vacuum - it's happening along with many other changes to all races. It's impossible to think about balance at this point in all honesty.
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On July 28 2012 13:36 densha wrote:
The ghost change isn't happening in a vacuum - it's happening along with many other changes to all races. It's impossible to think about balance at this point in all honesty.
Its just another stupid change to help super low level players
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On July 28 2012 12:53 Drowsy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 12:44 stfouri wrote:
Just because his nick is avilo and some sotg kiddies like to pick on random community kids does not change the fact that this change is unjustified.
Yap, lots of un-necessary hate itt. "Look at me, I'm cool, I made fun of that nerd avilo like they did on sotg!1!" Change feels silly, even the reasoning behind it seems silly. The whole aspect of managing ghost energy and cloaking and uncloaking at the right times adds tactical depth. I don't know about the balance implications, but from that standpoint its just kind of un-necessary.
Well he did make himself look like a fool on SOTG. He wouldn't listen to what they were saying and kept cutting them off. He also basically forced himself on the show when they didn't really want him there in the first place. All-in-all my first impression of him was that he is an asshole. He has also made many balance whine threads in the past that don't make him look the greatest.
The other nerf here is you would no longer be able to load an already cloaked ghost in a medivac and drop it off still cloaked into an opponent's base. The cloak will run out and the ghost will be easily visible + have the remaining cooldown period to wait to re-cloak
I don't think this paragraph is needed. You can always cloak the ghost after it drops. If your opponent is aware, they'll see the medivac anyway so this shouldn't change much.
Besides that paragraph, I agree with your post. I don't feel like this change is needed at all. If anything, I guess it only really helps when your ghosts first pop out and don't have much energy to stay cloaked for a few seconds and emp at the same time. They've made changes already to HOTS and this is one thing I don't think will stick.
PS: We all know how Terran has been doing lately. Terran does not need another nerf on top of every other nerf that the race has been hit with
When writing a thread about a bad design change, you really shouldn't throw these in. It makes it sounds a lot more like a whine then a legitimate concern. Especially when talking about HOTS since it will most likely feel like a new game.
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On July 28 2012 13:24 dynwar7 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 13:01 ROOTT1 wrote:On July 28 2012 08:19 Shiori wrote:On July 28 2012 08:04 ROOTCatZ wrote:
Avilo nothing you say has any relevance in my eyes, every race is getting changes in HotS, the zerg units are likely the most useless and will have less impact, while the hydra and ultra buffs are nice, the other 2 aren't v good. ALL you ever do, since the beta is complain about stuff you don't even understand, its pathetic, when terran was broken you and lzgamer were the only 2 terrans to deny it. these days ALL you do is rage and qq about zerg and protoss. I don't know what race you played in the game you played before, but if i had to guess it was the worst race. Reality is avilo, you need to look into your flaws, your mechanics aren't actually terrible, you're just really bad and your decision making is not very good, watching your stream is painful on the brain and you need to realize that its you who sucks, not the game. the sooner, the better.
Note: I don't think of myself as levels above avilo or anything in that regard, even though i very rarely lose to him, and not cause zerg is op or blabla, i mean i rarely lose to him for the last 2 years. But the harsh reality here is every race has its strengths and weaknesses and if we're not looking into our own mistakes and blaming blizzard about everything, we're never gonna improve. Avilo, learn to type 'gg' after gettin pwnd and learn to acknowledge your mistakes instead of blaming 'browder' for your sucking. LOL? I agree with all of your critiques about Avilo, but Zerg gets the worst from HotS? Are you kidding me? Maybe the Swarm Host, but the Viper is amazing. The hydra speed buff is the most important addition that zerg got imo, the viper is a late game unit and the swarm host is more of a drop/harass unit more than anything. As of now terran has the best additions followed by zerg and then toss(and i swear to god im not being biased). Terran now has 3 new useful units (counting spider mines which by the way, is the most OP unit addition in HOTS) that they can add into their unit composition at any stage of the game whereas protoss didnt get any new attacking unit to help their early/midd game. Also all the OP mothership core abilities like energize are going to get nerfed anyways so theres no point in debating over how good it is, in what fucking world did blizzard think an ability that gives 100 energy to your nexus for the cost of 25 energy would be balanced? r.o.f.l tbh i would be shocked if blizzard didnt make any major changes to the protoss units before releasing the beta, i expect them to add 1 new early/midd game unit Terran has the best buff? Haha.
this is coming from someone whos been playing the HOTS ums 24/7 for the past week
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Well a marauder battlehellion allin is impossible to stop.
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On July 28 2012 13:01 ROOTT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 08:19 Shiori wrote:On July 28 2012 08:04 ROOTCatZ wrote:
Avilo nothing you say has any relevance in my eyes, every race is getting changes in HotS, the zerg units are likely the most useless and will have less impact, while the hydra and ultra buffs are nice, the other 2 aren't v good. ALL you ever do, since the beta is complain about stuff you don't even understand, its pathetic, when terran was broken you and lzgamer were the only 2 terrans to deny it. these days ALL you do is rage and qq about zerg and protoss. I don't know what race you played in the game you played before, but if i had to guess it was the worst race. Reality is avilo, you need to look into your flaws, your mechanics aren't actually terrible, you're just really bad and your decision making is not very good, watching your stream is painful on the brain and you need to realize that its you who sucks, not the game. the sooner, the better.
Note: I don't think of myself as levels above avilo or anything in that regard, even though i very rarely lose to him, and not cause zerg is op or blabla, i mean i rarely lose to him for the last 2 years. But the harsh reality here is every race has its strengths and weaknesses and if we're not looking into our own mistakes and blaming blizzard about everything, we're never gonna improve. Avilo, learn to type 'gg' after gettin pwnd and learn to acknowledge your mistakes instead of blaming 'browder' for your sucking. LOL? I agree with all of your critiques about Avilo, but Zerg gets the worst from HotS? Are you kidding me? Maybe the Swarm Host, but the Viper is amazing. The hydra speed buff is the most important addition that zerg got imo, the viper is a late game unit and the swarm host is more of a drop/harass unit more than anything. As of now terran has the best additions followed by zerg and then toss(and i swear to god im not being biased). Terran now has 3 new useful units (counting spider mines which by the way, is the most OP unit addition in HOTS) that they can add into their unit composition at any stage of the game whereas protoss didnt get any new attacking unit to help their early/midd game. Also all the OP mothership core abilities like energize are going to get nerfed anyways so theres no point in debating over how good it is, in what fucking world did blizzard think that an ability that gives 100 energy to your nexus for the cost of 25 energy would be balanced? r.o.f.l tbh i would be shocked if blizzard didnt make any major changes to the protoss units before releasing the beta, i expect them to add 1 new early/midd game unit
@ Catz: In the last game he played, Red Alert 3, he played Allied, which were definitely NOT the weakest race (which was Empire with soviet being, back when I played, a little behind allies imo but streets ahead of Empire. But I played soviet so take that with a grain of salt sir!)
And our mate avilo was still as insufferable back then as he is now. Well maybe he's a little better, but still.
I think he played Terran in BW too but I might be making that up.
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On July 28 2012 13:01 ROOTT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 08:19 Shiori wrote:On July 28 2012 08:04 ROOTCatZ wrote:
Avilo nothing you say has any relevance in my eyes, every race is getting changes in HotS, the zerg units are likely the most useless and will have less impact, while the hydra and ultra buffs are nice, the other 2 aren't v good. ALL you ever do, since the beta is complain about stuff you don't even understand, its pathetic, when terran was broken you and lzgamer were the only 2 terrans to deny it. these days ALL you do is rage and qq about zerg and protoss. I don't know what race you played in the game you played before, but if i had to guess it was the worst race. Reality is avilo, you need to look into your flaws, your mechanics aren't actually terrible, you're just really bad and your decision making is not very good, watching your stream is painful on the brain and you need to realize that its you who sucks, not the game. the sooner, the better.
Note: I don't think of myself as levels above avilo or anything in that regard, even though i very rarely lose to him, and not cause zerg is op or blabla, i mean i rarely lose to him for the last 2 years. But the harsh reality here is every race has its strengths and weaknesses and if we're not looking into our own mistakes and blaming blizzard about everything, we're never gonna improve. Avilo, learn to type 'gg' after gettin pwnd and learn to acknowledge your mistakes instead of blaming 'browder' for your sucking. LOL? I agree with all of your critiques about Avilo, but Zerg gets the worst from HotS? Are you kidding me? Maybe the Swarm Host, but the Viper is amazing. The hydra speed buff is the most important addition that zerg got imo, the viper is a late game unit and the swarm host is more of a drop/harass unit more than anything. As of now terran has the best additions followed by zerg and then toss(and i swear to god im not being biased). Terran now has 3 new useful units (counting spider mines which by the way, is the most OP unit addition in HOTS) that they can add into their unit composition at any stage of the game whereas protoss didnt get any new attacking unit to help their early/midd game. Also all the OP mothership core abilities like energize are going to get nerfed anyways so theres no point in debating over how good it is, in what fucking world did blizzard think that an ability that gives 100 energy to your nexus for the cost of 25 energy would be balanced? r.o.f.l tbh i would be shocked if blizzard didnt make any major changes to the protoss units before releasing the beta, i expect them to add 1 new early/midd game unit
I'm not sure why you're dismissing vipers and saying hyrdra buff is the most significant when hydra speed upgrade is hive tech. That's also late game.
I honestly think it's a bit silly to be talking about balance for HOTS when nobody has even played it yet. It's a bit ridiculous.
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There are so many of these little "tweaks" to Terran that its becoming hard to argue for the competence or impartiality of the balance team. That said, a LOT of things are going to be adjusted in beta when comes in closed or open form, so there isn't need to jump all over this yet.
Snide comments about Avilo also getting super old. Need to pick on someone else ya'll.
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terrans seem to be able to come up with everything in the world to qq.
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On July 28 2012 10:04 S1eth wrote:
IIRC, Browder said that this change was supposed to help Terrans manage the energy on their ghosts, i.e. not forgetting to turn off cloak and running out of energy.
This change is aimed at the lower level Terran players, but hurts those who already know how to properly manage their ghosts, meaning it hurts high-level Terrans.
Did they change cloak on Banshee as well?
Agreed. This hurts high level play.
Also while the numbers can change, the concept itself can be talked about.
Where were all the people who right now saying "wait for the beta" when the Shredder and Replicant was released?
This is one of those changes you can easily talk about now instead of later.
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Well... It won't matter will it? I thought you said mass ravens were the key to Terran, ghosts play no part in that. ^^ HoTS isn't out yet, when they realize how stupid it is (from a design perspective, not balance) to have it on cool down they will change it back, relax...
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On July 28 2012 14:54 iaguz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 13:01 ROOTT1 wrote:On July 28 2012 08:19 Shiori wrote:On July 28 2012 08:04 ROOTCatZ wrote:
Avilo nothing you say has any relevance in my eyes, every race is getting changes in HotS, the zerg units are likely the most useless and will have less impact, while the hydra and ultra buffs are nice, the other 2 aren't v good. ALL you ever do, since the beta is complain about stuff you don't even understand, its pathetic, when terran was broken you and lzgamer were the only 2 terrans to deny it. these days ALL you do is rage and qq about zerg and protoss. I don't know what race you played in the game you played before, but if i had to guess it was the worst race. Reality is avilo, you need to look into your flaws, your mechanics aren't actually terrible, you're just really bad and your decision making is not very good, watching your stream is painful on the brain and you need to realize that its you who sucks, not the game. the sooner, the better.
Note: I don't think of myself as levels above avilo or anything in that regard, even though i very rarely lose to him, and not cause zerg is op or blabla, i mean i rarely lose to him for the last 2 years. But the harsh reality here is every race has its strengths and weaknesses and if we're not looking into our own mistakes and blaming blizzard about everything, we're never gonna improve. Avilo, learn to type 'gg' after gettin pwnd and learn to acknowledge your mistakes instead of blaming 'browder' for your sucking. LOL? I agree with all of your critiques about Avilo, but Zerg gets the worst from HotS? Are you kidding me? Maybe the Swarm Host, but the Viper is amazing. The hydra speed buff is the most important addition that zerg got imo, the viper is a late game unit and the swarm host is more of a drop/harass unit more than anything. As of now terran has the best additions followed by zerg and then toss(and i swear to god im not being biased). Terran now has 3 new useful units (counting spider mines which by the way, is the most OP unit addition in HOTS) that they can add into their unit composition at any stage of the game whereas protoss didnt get any new attacking unit to help their early/midd game. Also all the OP mothership core abilities like energize are going to get nerfed anyways so theres no point in debating over how good it is, in what fucking world did blizzard think that an ability that gives 100 energy to your nexus for the cost of 25 energy would be balanced? r.o.f.l tbh i would be shocked if blizzard didnt make any major changes to the protoss units before releasing the beta, i expect them to add 1 new early/midd game unit @ Catz: In the last game he played, Red Alert 3, he played Allied, which were definitely NOT the weakest race (which was Empire with soviet being, back when I played, a little behind allies imo but streets ahead of Empire. But I played soviet so take that with a grain of salt sir!) And our mate avilo was still as insufferable back then as he is now. Well maybe he's a little better, but still. I think he played Terran in BW too but I might be making that up.
i dont even want to know wtf happend to this guy before he thought of posting in this thread, haha. red aleret 3? in which fucked up dimension does this have relevance to anything in this thread, whoa. nah, i'm jk bro, ur alright.
so in all honesty, why the hell are people touching this subject, i mean, out of all the weird and meaningless subjects that have yet to be discussed on teamliquid, why bring this one up now and not after the beta is out when perhaps there's a sense of credibility
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EPT
