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Ghost Design Change Concern for HOTS - Page 10

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 8 9 10 11 12 23 Next All
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
July 27 2012 23:27 GMT
#181
I'm definitely not comfortable with the change, specifically with the cooldown. If it were a flat energy charge that you had to "remember" to refresh every 30s, that would be fine. Implementing it with a cooldown is a rather indirect way of making cloak ultimately useless.
Havik_
Profile Joined November 2011
United States5585 Posts
July 27 2012 23:28 GMT
#182
I don't really see this as a nerf. If anything it could be considered a buff.
"An opinion is only as good as the evidence that backs it up."- William O'Malley, S.J.
Coolness53
Profile Joined April 2010
United States668 Posts
July 27 2012 23:29 GMT
#183
On July 28 2012 08:20 avilo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 28 2012 08:18 ROOTCatZ wrote:
On July 28 2012 08:15 avilo wrote:
On July 28 2012 08:04 ROOTCatZ wrote:
Avilo nothing you say has any relevance in my eyes, every race is getting changes in HotS, the zerg units are likely the most useless and will have less impact, while the hydra and ultra buffs are nice, the other 2 aren't v good. ALL you ever do, since the beta is complain about stuff you don't even understand, its pathetic, when terran was broken you and lzgamer were the only 2 terrans to deny it. these days ALL you do is rage and qq about zerg and protoss. I don't know what race you played in the game you played before, but if i had to guess it was the worst race. Reality is avilo, you need to look into your flaws, your mechanics aren't actually terrible, you're just really bad and your decision making is not very good, watching your stream is painful on the brain and you need to realize that its you who sucks, not the game. the sooner, the better.

Note: I don't think of myself as levels above avilo or anything in that regard, even though i very rarely lose to him, and not cause zerg is op or blabla, i mean i rarely lose to him for the last 2 years. But the harsh reality here is every race has its strengths and weaknesses and if we're not looking into our own mistakes and blaming blizzard about everything, we're never gonna improve. Avilo, learn to type 'gg' after gettin pwnd and learn to acknowledge your mistakes instead of blaming 'browder' for your sucking.


What the fuck? I expect better from you catz. Did you just come here to brag or something? This thread has nothing to do with "QQing," let alone you or me personally, why you would come here and bash me is beyond me. This thread has to do with a terrible design change. If they changed the infestor to be similar with a cool down on burrow...it would be just as bad of a design decision, and an unnecessary change.

Or did you just post in this thread to try to discredit me/give credibility to the 1 liners in this thread? Very low. You literally said nothing about the topic at hand anywhere in your post lmao.

Take your mindless bashing to reddit where it belongs.


anyone who has watched your stream for over 10 minutes knows, you're qqing about a game that's not even out or remotely balanced, so why don't you instead give it some time, the way I see it there are no nerfs, it is a new game, heart of the swarm so get used to -CHANGES- it'll take a few months for it to get anywhere close to balanced. and reddit is awesome lmao!


Try commenting on the actual thread content here in the OP, instead of on me personally or starting up the bandwagon against me. Thanks.


I haven't attacked you at all but I will say is.. What if they change the duration to 45 seconds for Cloak with no energy usage plus a 15 second cooldown when out of cloak. Now if they want this to be a buff they can change things at a whim. The reason why I am writing this off is because alpha Starcraft II was totally different in how it came out. With the new change how would you make it be a buff but not making it overpowered? I understand your scared of the change but lets see if it even makes beta. They have people testing it and will have a beta .
Fruitdealer, DongRaeGu, and Soulkey
yoigen
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany369 Posts
July 27 2012 23:29 GMT
#184
On July 28 2012 08:28 Havik_ wrote:
I don't really see this as a nerf. If anything it could be considered a buff.


This is just wrong. Ghostcloak plays a huge role in tvp lategame, and if he just engages you then backs off and engages again and your cloak is on cooldown you will most likely lose all your expensive ghosts.
Today I didn't even have to use my AK, I gotta say it was a good day.
The WingNut
Profile Joined February 2012
United States35 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-27 23:33:49
July 27 2012 23:30 GMT
#185
On July 28 2012 08:04 ROOTCatZ wrote:
Reality is avilo, you need to look into your flaws, your mechanics aren't actually terrible, you're just really bad and your decision making is not very good, watching your stream is painful on the brain and you need to realize that its you who sucks, not the game. the sooner, the better.



The skill level of any individual player has no bearing on whether this, or any change to HOTS is good or bad. Avilo's skill level is irrelevant.

I also feel that these comments belittling others are uncalled for; I sure hope they stop.

I suggest we please discuss the topic at hand and not individuals.


On Topic: I suggest that the ghost simply is able to toggle the old way and the new way of cloaking. That way if a player wishes, they can cloak the old way. The bad thing about this is that it could be too complicated.
Karawasa
Profile Joined July 2011
United States58 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-27 23:35:35
July 27 2012 23:34 GMT
#186
On July 28 2012 07:04 wcr.4fun wrote:
Which is terrible...

Zerg auto win late game in zvt?

Toss autowin in late game zvp?

Asymmetrical balance is terrible!

User was warned for this post


I'm trying to figure out why a warning was given for this post but not the mountain of flames that appear in this thread.

PS: Seems you pissed off the staff avilo.
0neder
Profile Joined July 2009
United States3733 Posts
July 27 2012 23:36 GMT
#187
I know this thread involves balance, but we should be opposed to this change because it's bad design, not because of balance.
Ace1123
Profile Joined September 2011
Philippines1187 Posts
July 27 2012 23:40 GMT
#188
C'mon, I hope Blizz does not push through with this. It is like they are saying that nuke harass can even be done by low level players. First of all great multitasking and positioning is required for this to work. considering the danger of losing your ghost and nuke.
ForGG, Mvp, MMA, MarineKing, BoxeR,
`dunedain
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
657 Posts
July 27 2012 23:40 GMT
#189
Oh, I just love how all these idra/incontrol fanboys have come out -- not to participate in conversation but to bash avilo -- hoping that it will score them cool points.
It's awesome how stupid some people are. Yeah, you guys are cool.
Hi5!

+ Show Spoiler +
The best part about it is -- the people who get most affected by this post are the losers I'm talking about.


User was temp banned for this post.
"In order to be created, a work of art must first make use of the dark forces of the soul." ~Albert Camus
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-27 23:45:42
July 27 2012 23:44 GMT
#190
On July 28 2012 08:34 Karawasa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 28 2012 07:04 wcr.4fun wrote:
Which is terrible...

Zerg auto win late game in zvt?

Toss autowin in late game zvp?

Asymmetrical balance is terrible!

User was warned for this post


I'm trying to figure out why a warning was given for this post but not the mountain of flames that appear in this thread.

PS: Seems you pissed off the staff avilo.

i reported it for balance whine. i assume thats it. not sure if the other posts have been reported.
takingbackoj
Profile Joined December 2010
United States684 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-27 23:50:58
July 27 2012 23:50 GMT
#191
Do you even know how long cloak lasts and how long the cool down is?
Get the hell outta here Der Beek, your'e ruining my moment.
CounterOrder
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada457 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-27 23:51:57
July 27 2012 23:50 GMT
#192
On July 28 2012 08:34 Karawasa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 28 2012 07:04 wcr.4fun wrote:
Which is terrible...

Zerg auto win late game in zvt?

Toss autowin in late game zvp?

Asymmetrical balance is terrible!

User was warned for this post


I'm trying to figure out why a warning was given for this post but not the mountain of flames that appear in this thread.

PS: Seems you pissed off the staff avilo.


lol, thats exactly the kind of thing i was referring to in my last post. Im honestly confused. A comment on Blizzards balance philosophy gets warned but flames and personal attacks are allowed and therefor encouraged to continue. That comment is 10x better than alot of posts in here. Yeah, thats sad. It wasnt balance whine at all, he mentioned all 3 races. He was obviously pointing out the fact thats its silly for a race to have such a large advantage at one point in the game. C'mon...
ChristianS
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3304 Posts
July 27 2012 23:52 GMT
#193
I think the motivation behind this change was actually trying to bring the ghost back into relevance. The snipe and EMP changes may have been necessary from a balance perspective, but they made the ghost a much less cool and interesting unit, so that it still has its uses that people have found, but its unlikely to find a lot more interesting uses in the future. And I think Blizzard would like to help fix that, without completely redoing the unit like they did from BW to SC2.

So when I first heard about the change I wasn't too upset. As I understood it, the ghost cloak would be less like traditional Terran cloak and more like stim, where it's a brief ability that lasts, say, for the length of a battle, but energy still recharges in that time. This would give ghosts more overall energy, while making cloak about as useful as it was before.

But with a cooldown on cloak after the time runs out, that becomes very different. Now cloak is limited to n-second periods, which means ghosts can't rely on cloak for safety for longer than that period. Since any harassment mission presumably takes longer than that n-second period of time, the ghost will be vulnerable in the cooldown period, and any decent player should be able to notice and kill the ghost during that time. This could be solved by making that n-second period really long, but that solution seems unnecessary and convoluted, since we've artificially stuck in a cooldown that's causing the problem, and the cooldown doesn't really need to be there.

Proposed solution: Cloak costs 25 energy, and renders the ghost invisible for, let's say, 30 seconds (in which time the ghost regenerates ~17 energy). At the end of that 30 seconds, the ghost automatically becomes visible again unless the Terran cloaks it again immediately, which will cost another 25 energy. This allows for cloaked ghost harassment but forces the Terran to keep a vigilant eye on his special ops assassins. It also reduces the cost of cloak relative to WoL, which helps make the ghost a more strategically interesting unit.

Tl;dr: Keep the change, but with no cooldown on cloak. Ghosts become cooler, better, and require more skill to use.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Robert J. Hanlon
Hermasaurus
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
54 Posts
July 27 2012 23:53 GMT
#194
On July 28 2012 08:15 avilo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 28 2012 08:04 ROOTCatZ wrote:
Avilo nothing you say has any relevance in my eyes, every race is getting changes in HotS, the zerg units are likely the most useless and will have less impact, while the hydra and ultra buffs are nice, the other 2 aren't v good. ALL you ever do, since the beta is complain about stuff you don't even understand, its pathetic, when terran was broken you and lzgamer were the only 2 terrans to deny it. these days ALL you do is rage and qq about zerg and protoss. I don't know what race you played in the game you played before, but if i had to guess it was the worst race. Reality is avilo, you need to look into your flaws, your mechanics aren't actually terrible, you're just really bad and your decision making is not very good, watching your stream is painful on the brain and you need to realize that its you who sucks, not the game. the sooner, the better.

Note: I don't think of myself as levels above avilo or anything in that regard, even though i very rarely lose to him, and not cause zerg is op or blabla, i mean i rarely lose to him for the last 2 years. But the harsh reality here is every race has its strengths and weaknesses and if we're not looking into our own mistakes and blaming blizzard about everything, we're never gonna improve. Avilo, learn to type 'gg' after gettin pwnd and learn to acknowledge your mistakes instead of blaming 'browder' for your sucking.


p.s. I thought it was cute yesterday that after my 3 hr stream session of the HOTS beta in the morning you had obviously been watching my stream and then got the idea to stream HOTS beta custom games from my stream I was flattered.

You need to take a look in the mirror and realize how sick you are. To conclude that Catz was playing HOTS because you had been playing it and he saw your steam and noticed your success so he followed you is both neurotic and narcissistic. You just aren't that important.

From the moment I first read your name in a thread you have been constantly campaigning for something. If you truly cared about the game you would be drawing conclusions for all of the races, all of the changes, and among all of the massive changes coming from HOTS the most pressing issue would not be some left field change to the ghost that is months off from even having any effect. Your concern is always Avilo related.
And guess what, you've wandered into our school of tuna and we now have a taste of lion. We've talked to ourselves. We've communicated and said 'You know what, lion tastes good, let's go get some more lion'
CounterOrder
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada457 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-27 23:58:32
July 27 2012 23:57 GMT
#195
oops /delete
U_G_L_Y
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States516 Posts
July 27 2012 23:58 GMT
#196
Thank you, Avilo.

If we don't give feedback before the games comes out, then the game will suck.

If Blizzard had listened to QXC, snipe woudln't do LESS dps than ghost normal attack vs small units like banelings and zealots.
Psychobabas
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
2531 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-28 00:03:40
July 28 2012 00:03 GMT
#197
Some people havent got a clue.

If you dont mention these things NOW there is a chance they will go past the beta. There's a reason we got medivac energy upgrade, and a few more upgrades that offer nothing to the game. Just junk which made through the beta because nobody cared. Only this time it affects balance quite a bit.

Not to mention the reapers that owned zerg like a joke before they were nerfed...
Ewic
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada121 Posts
July 28 2012 00:13 GMT
#198
On July 28 2012 08:34 Karawasa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 28 2012 07:04 wcr.4fun wrote:
Which is terrible...

Zerg auto win late game in zvt?

Toss autowin in late game zvp?

Asymmetrical balance is terrible!

User was warned for this post


I'm trying to figure out why a warning was given for this post but not the mountain of flames that appear in this thread.

PS: Seems you pissed off the staff avilo.


I would like to second this. Double standards are a no-no.
GrandMaster Terran
Greendotz
Profile Joined October 2011
United Kingdom2053 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-28 00:16:22
July 28 2012 00:13 GMT
#199
I don’t know man, this op just seems so off, I decided to give it the benefit of the doubt and read through the whole thing (I watched about 1 minute of the video but drew the line there) but my opinion was still the same as when I read the title (I rolled my eyes and sighed whilst slowly shaking my head).

Firstly this isn’t new info, this has been known since the original HoTS press release at Blizzcon 2011. Next, nuke harass is so incredibly rare (like almost Battle Cruiser rare) yet you talk about it as if that’s actually the linchpin of Terran strategy. The last pro game I remember using nuke harass was Namma (think it was Namma) vs Ret at Homestory Cup V.

Also it’s been said a billion times before but this is still in ALPHA.I admit it is kind of fun to speculate on balance of new units and how they’ll affect the game, but you take yourself so damn seriously “I am posting this here to alert the community and blizzard developers” seriously dude? I guess I’m just glad you didn’t make a similar thread about the replicant.
0neder
Profile Joined July 2009
United States3733 Posts
July 28 2012 00:15 GMT
#200
The sad thing is, Avilo is right from a design perspective, but this thread is a tragic case of the balance whiner who cried balance. Nobody will listen to him, and it's turned into nothing but Avilo bashing.
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