EPTModified Movement Test - Page 3
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There will obviously be balance shifts when gameplay values are changed. Nobody is claiming otherwise. This thread is about the effect these changes have on the clarity and spectator-friendliness of SC2. | ||
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Poplicola
Sweden15 Posts
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Chilling5pr33
Germany518 Posts
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Qwyn
United States2779 Posts
Why? B/c improving pathing in this way will allow AOE damage to be increased. And increasing AOE damage is, as far as I can see, the only way to prevent the deathball. Units which control space have to be implemented in the game in order to get out of the shithole SCII is in now. The siege tank was nerfed into the ground b/c of the pathing engine. A small change like this will make AOE damage increases more tolerable. If they are more tolerable, then Blizzard might be willing to implement them. If Blizzard does not make a change like this to the pathing engine, then increasing AOE damage will have much harsher effects. An extremely high level of maintainence is required to continually de-clump your army, and if high AOE damage units are implemented in the current system to fix the deathball issue, then the de-clump APM sink will be too high for most players. With the suggested pathing system, there is no reason that one cannot clump their units - simply click into the middle of the ball. But along with this change should also come AOE damage increases, meaning that clumping would be less desirable. It's much too difficult to continually de-clump your units after every single fucking move command, hence why AOE is nerfed so much. This de-clump requirement actually prevents more movement around the map, as players have less incentive to move (every time you do, you have to spend time fucking de-clumping!). Hence why players move out in one big attack (that and the lack of high AOE, space controlling units). And we need high damage AOE to bring an end to the deathball issue. Changing the pathing system will make the road less painful in the longhaul. | ||
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elanobissen
Denmark244 Posts
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KingAce
United States471 Posts
Units will still clump up in chockes, around builds etc. Think about, tanks, colossus, storm, archon toilet, Emp all these things have been nerfed because of the clumping. AOE is awesome, but it's in this game it's a joke. | ||
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Dahlian
Germany37 Posts
On July 03 2012 21:18 Qwyn wrote: This de-clump requirement actually prevents more movement around the map, as players have less incentive to move (every time you do, you have to spend time fucking de-clumping!). Hence why players move out in one big attack (that and the lack of high AOE, space controlling units). And we need high damage AOE to bring an end to the deathball issue. Changing the pathing system will make the road less painful in the longhaul. I strongly agree with that first statement, knowing this from my own games. You spend time splitting all the units up and then you think to yourself "Great, now he can come." Which he has to because I cant move without losing the edge immediatly. Even with high apm it can only be used as a defensive measure which prevents you from attacking until you have a death ball. | ||
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Crypdos
Netherlands110 Posts
Whats the purpose of this? .. | ||
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Bommes
Germany1226 Posts
On July 03 2012 21:37 Crypdos wrote: This makes the deathball stronger because your units are already pre-split and take less damage from a fungal/storm. Whats the purpose of this? .. This is not a change that would change how strong an army is, but it would soften the effect of having giant unit balls of shit in a single control group running around the map humping each other in a giant ball of clusterfuck. Which looks like shit in my personal opinion and is the whole reason it is called a DeathBALL. edit: Also they are not presplit, you have to manually split them. They just don't clump up whenever you intend to move. | ||
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Darneck
Sweden1394 Posts
On July 03 2012 21:37 Crypdos wrote: This makes the deathball stronger because your units are already pre-split and take less damage from a fungal/storm. Whats the purpose of this? .. AOE would be buffed, the whole way engagements are fought will be different. You will be able to retreat more easily with parts of your army, you'll be able to micro parts of your army more easily. And yea, they are not pre split automatically. | ||
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Qwyn
United States2779 Posts
On July 03 2012 21:39 Bommes wrote: This is not a change that would change how strong an army is, but it would soften the effect of having giant unit balls of shit in a single control group running around the map humping each other in a giant ball of clusterfuck. Which looks like shit in my personal opinion and is the whole reason it is called a DeathBALL. edit: Also they are not presplit, you have to manually split them. They just don't clump up whenever you intend to move. LOL, I wish I could write my descriptions of the issue as eloquently as you. "...Soften the effect of having giant balls of shit in a single control group running around the map humping each other in a giant ball of clusterfuck." Amen. | ||
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shell
Portugal2722 Posts
Since the best micro tricks are about splitting units, getting a better comclave etc., if you take that away the game would be easier | ||
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DocHolliday
United Kingdom51 Posts
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Darneck
Sweden1394 Posts
On July 03 2012 21:50 shell wrote: I feel that this will also simplify the game imo Since the best micro tricks are about splitting units, getting a better comclave etc., if you take that away the game would be easier You still have to split and if you just increase AOE radius, the same amount of micro would still be required since you'd have to split more | ||
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HeroMystic
United States1217 Posts
The only reason why I'm against this is because the game is already balanced around the current pathing. -Every- splash effect (even things like Hellion Splash) would need a large buff across the board. | ||
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Jenia6109
Russian Federation1613 Posts
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Qwyn
United States2779 Posts
On July 03 2012 21:53 Darneck wrote: You still have to split and if you just increase AOE radius, the same amount of micro would still be required since you'd have to split more Right, people seem to think that this change somehow splits all your forces for you. It doesn't. That must be done manually. And "blobbing" of units due to small chokes/corners still occurs, meaning that units need to be spread out again. They just don't clump up after every single fucking click into a tight blob when they converge on on their location. They retain formation while traveling. | ||
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Sadist
United States7328 Posts
One thing you could do if blizzard didn't want to implement this is increase the collision radius of each unit so they at least have some gaps between them. The armies in the game look really ugly all bunched up. It makes the armies look smaller and you cant even see shit half of the time. Protoss with colossus in particular looks horrible. | ||
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MavercK
Australia2181 Posts
deathball is an issue because your ball is so tightly clumped that as soon as an engagement happens 100% of your units are shooting and it's instantly perfectly efficient. where as with inefficient pathing fights become longer because units filter in and you have maybe 50% of your army attacking at any given time in a battle. alot of repositioning goes on. time is given for reinforcements and flanks. etc. the list goes on. | ||
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MerciLess
213 Posts
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Tarot
Canada440 Posts
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