EPT1 Month later... Is Queen Range still too strong [TvZ]? -…
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This thread is going nowhere and I'm tired of dealing with it. Either drop the personal attacks and whining and replace it with actual discussion or it'll be closed. 12:09 KST Page 98 | ||
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Sovern
United States312 Posts
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Plethora
United States206 Posts
On June 22 2012 10:57 dvorakftw wrote: I'd just like to say the real problem is Terran's late game is too weak. The Queen buff simply reduced the best chances Terran had to slow Zerg's early economy, exposing Terran's late game problem. I'd be happy to let Queens keep Range 5 (though why not try it at 4) if we could get anything that made BCs and/or HSMs more viable late. Primarily this. Though I'd like to throw in that, as others have said, with the queen buff they should give reaper speed back to tier one. Might make reapers somewhat useful again. =/ | ||
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
On June 22 2012 11:21 RogerChillingworth wrote: so unwinnable that terrans are starting to win again oops! If you're talking about GSL I would certainly hope Terran can win if the Zergs play as horrible as they did. | ||
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Plethora
United States206 Posts
On June 22 2012 11:20 Blyadischa wrote: Select, Mvp, and Polt have also stated in various interviews, flat out, that TvZ is essentially unwinnable atm. Even speaking as a Terran player who does think the queen buff went a little too far... comments like these really make these players come off as whiny and stubborn to me. | ||
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Inquisitor1323
370 Posts
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RifleCow
Canada637 Posts
On June 22 2012 11:24 Sovern wrote: Another problem is that Terran lacks a use in taking the game to the late game. Terran needs a BF buff and larva should be removed from the game. Battle cruisers should have the same role as broodlords and be able to shoot out units that attack ground just the same and ghosts emp should slow all units hit by its emp. Right now the game is garbage and late game will never be balanced unless they fix the units. If anyone hasn't realized. This guy is trolling up a storm. | ||
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hashaki
Norway210 Posts
On June 22 2012 11:20 HeroMystic wrote: Yeah I agree. I don't think this level of complaints have been this strong ever since the KA removal. And look at how well that turned out in the end  But no seriously, Zerg is looking mighty strong atm, but as a spectator i can't do anything but wait and see how the game develops from here or if it won't and patch being reverted  | ||
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TENTHST
United States204 Posts
I realize that the Viking already had stupidly good range, but this would be a small fix to help them out tremendously in the late game. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
There have been countless times in the past, such as 2 food roaches, roach range, archon changes, infestor changes, EMP, etc that people completely and utterly flipped shit over that ended up being okay. Stuff takes time to adapt to and it shouldn't be a surprise that the game gets a lot harder suddenly after a big balance change. But it works its self out 99% of the time. | ||
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
On June 22 2012 11:29 Plethora wrote: Even speaking as a Terran player who does think the queen buff went a little too far... comments like these really make these players come off as whiny and stubborn to me. Professional players have every right to complain about a bad patch, this game is their job and the balance can directly impact how successful they are. So now we have ( korean players only ) Mvp MMA Marineking Supernova Ryung Sculp Jjakji Polt all complaining about the current balance, how many players do we need to speak up before we take it seriously? On June 22 2012 11:32 Mohdoo wrote: Balance shouldn't even be considered less than 3 months after a patch. It takes more than a month, I don't even see why this thread is open. Its so far from a good amount of time that its silly to even discuss now. There have been countless times in the past, such as 2 food roaches, roach range, archon changes, infestor changes, EMP, etc that people completely and utterly flipped shit over that ended up being okay. Stuff takes time to adapt to and it shouldn't be a surprise that the game gets a lot harder suddenly after a big balance change. But it works its self out 99% of the time. The problem is every time there is a patch and Terran " adapts " another patch comes along to nerf them again, the most recent patches involving TvZ have been the Snipe nerf and now the Queen buff, one of them made Zerg favored in the late game and the other made them favored in the early/midgame. You don't need to " wait and see " to understand that this is imbalanced, It's common sense. | ||
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IamNatural
64 Posts
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Sadist
United States7328 Posts
Theres none of this from the zerg side in sc2. I think that is a big problem as well. The clock only applies to terran because of the BL Infestor/Ultra army. | ||
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Sroobz
United States1377 Posts
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Advocado
Denmark994 Posts
On June 22 2012 11:31 TENTHST wrote: The only reasonable buff Terran COULD need is +1 or +2 to Viking range. They would be able to deal with late game Protoss and Zerg units from a greater distance, and not leave their Bio so succeptible to storm and fungal. I realize that the Viking already had stupidly good range, but this would be a small fix to help them out tremendously in the late game. Do we really want vikings kiting even more units? They already have the longest range for air units no? It'll invalidate the carrier even more. The only reason that vikings dont straight up destroy the broodlord/corruptor is because of the infestor (and in particular the extra damage to mech units). Interesting idea though. | ||
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Shiori
3815 Posts
On June 22 2012 11:31 TENTHST wrote: The only reasonable buff Terran COULD need is +1 or +2 to Viking range. They would be able to deal with late game Protoss and Zerg units from a greater distance, and not leave their Bio so succeptible to storm and fungal. I realize that the Viking already had stupidly good range, but this would be a small fix to help them out tremendously in the late game. This would screw up everything in TvP, since Colossus would be snipeable from like 5 miles away, and the Stalker vs Viking vs Bio dance would no longer exist. How about you just suck it up and revert the Queen buff. | ||
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Advocado
Denmark994 Posts
On June 22 2012 11:35 Dodgin wrote: Professional players have every right to complain about a bad patch, this game is their job and the balance can directly impact how successful they are. So now we have ( korean players only ) Mvp MMA Marineking Supernova Ryung Sculp Jjakji Polt all complaining about the current balance, how many players do we need to speak up before we take it seriously? The problem is every time there is a patch and Terran " adapts " another patch comes along to nerf them again, the most recent patches involving TvZ have been the Snipe nerf and now the Queen buff, one of them made Zerg favored in the late game and the other made them favored in the early/midgame. You don't need to " wait and see " to understand that this is imbalanced, It's common sense. Have you noticed how a lot of these people have had insane TvZ winrates? A bunch of those terrans have all built their success on their TvZ, of course they will be vocal about the game. Perhaps the game will better without the allin victories off the zerg simply not receiving information. I do agree that the hellion expand was getting really stale and even slightly unpredictable? | ||
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
On June 22 2012 12:13 Advocado wrote: Have you noticed how a lot of these people have had insane TvZ winrates? A bunch of those terrans have all built their success on their TvZ, of course they will be vocal about the game. Perhaps the game will better without the allin victories off the zerg simply not receiving information. I do agree that the hellion expand was getting really stale and even slightly unpredictable? If Blizzard manages to find another way to balance out the matchup such as giving Terran equal footing in the lategame then the Queen buff would be fine, the problem is that right now Terran has a disadvantage in every stage of the game which is clearly not balanced. Also, the overlord buff is perfectly fine. Maps are a lot bigger now and the old speed was balanced for smaller maps like Steppes of War, now they have better scouting ( which I agree they needed ) that's all fine and dandy, the only problem is the Queen buff. | ||
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Shiori
3815 Posts
On June 22 2012 12:13 Advocado wrote: Have you noticed how a lot of these people have had insane TvZ winrates? A bunch of those terrans have all built their success on their TvZ, of course they will be vocal about the game. Perhaps the game will better without the allin victories off the zerg simply not receiving information. I do agree that the hellion expand was getting really stale and even slightly unpredictable? These all-in victories had nothing to do with the Queen buff, and you know it. Even though I think they were a non-issue to start with, you guys got your Overlord buff. Nobody is complaining about that (much). The problem is that Creep can't be expediently denied in the early game, which allows the Zerg a fast third. | ||
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Advocado
Denmark994 Posts
On June 22 2012 12:19 Shiori wrote: These all-in victories had nothing to do with the Queen buff, and you know it. Even though I think they were a non-issue to start with, you guys got your Overlord buff. Nobody is complaining about that (much). The problem is that Creep can't be expediently denied in the early game, which allows the Zerg a fast third. I personally felt that hellions gave a lot of mapcontrol for very little investment. Queens dont just run off and take full mapcontrol. Some of the maps in the gsl/gstl has gotten too big if anything making it harder to punish a greedy zerg. | ||
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ahw
Canada1099 Posts
Have you noticed how a lot of these people have had insane TvZ winrates? A bunch of those terrans have all built their success on their TvZ, of course they will be vocal about the game. Perhaps the game will better without the allin victories off the zerg simply not receiving information. I do agree that the hellion expand was getting really stale and even slightly unpredictable? all-in rates are higher after the queen buff. pretty much have to go cc first or some 1 base cheese to punish greedy queen play. tvz was in a nice spot where the better player generally won | ||
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