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This thread is going nowhere and I'm tired of dealing with it. Either drop the personal attacks and whining and replace it with actual discussion or it'll be closed.
12:09 KST Page 98 |
On June 26 2012 08:36 stichtom wrote:
And the funny this is that zerg discovered one of the best semi all in ever: roach, bane, ling. This all in is so hard to stop if u go 1 rax FE and even if the all in fails zerg can still win.
On the other side terran has ONLY weak all in because of the queen range.
This. The only good T all in is proxy 11-11 on a large 4 player map. And it's a fair game if they drone scout. Meanwhile, roach/bane all ins on 35 drones are extremely hard to stop. Helion/MM or Helion/banshee can crumble to it without perfect micro. They morph at least 20 banes and smash through even engi bay/bunker walls. Then follow it up with wave after wave. Even banshees are left helpless firing at single blings. The only way to hard counter is siege tanks on the high ground. But if he takes a earlish third and macros, you're way behind for playing so defensive. I want my free win back as a T. I'm sick of only winning games in 20+ minutes with the utmost patience and precision. 1 mistep on creep against ling/bling infestor and it's all over.
The implicit point is T early game pressure got nerfed hardcore with queen range and rax build time.
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Yeah that 5 second rax build time increase CRUSHED terran openers...Terrans just need to figure out a different opener than hellions. Give it time. Also, stop qqing about zergs having a good all-in when the 1-1-1 dominated the pro scene for like 6 MONTHS before protoss started to figure it out
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On June 26 2012 12:01 heyitskez wrote:
Yeah that 5 second rax build time increase CRUSHED terran openers...Terrans just need to figure out a different opener than hellions. Give it time. Also, stop qqing about zergs having a good all-in when the 1-1-1 dominated the pro scene for like 6 MONTHS before protoss started to figure it out
Started to figure out and +1 range to immortals, which made immortal timings in pvz so much better.
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On June 26 2012 12:01 heyitskez wrote:
Yeah that 5 second rax build time increase CRUSHED terran openers...Terrans just need to figure out a different opener than hellions. Give it time. Also, stop qqing about zergs having a good all-in when the 1-1-1 dominated the pro scene for like 6 MONTHS before protoss started to figure it out
The protoss didn't "figure it out," they were buffed.
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On June 26 2012 12:01 heyitskez wrote:
Yeah that 5 second rax build time increase CRUSHED terran openers...Terrans just need to figure out a different opener than hellions. Give it time. Also, stop qqing about zergs having a good all-in when the 1-1-1 dominated the pro scene for like 6 MONTHS before protoss started to figure it out
Let me guess. You are no higher than plat level? What I get, a cookie?
User was warned for this post
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On June 26 2012 12:04 riff wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 12:01 heyitskez wrote:
Yeah that 5 second rax build time increase CRUSHED terran openers...Terrans just need to figure out a different opener than hellions. Give it time. Also, stop qqing about zergs having a good all-in when the 1-1-1 dominated the pro scene for like 6 MONTHS before protoss started to figure it out The protoss didn't "figure it out," they were buffed.
This. Immortal range buff?
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On June 26 2012 12:08 gengka wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 12:04 riff wrote:On June 26 2012 12:01 heyitskez wrote:
Yeah that 5 second rax build time increase CRUSHED terran openers...Terrans just need to figure out a different opener than hellions. Give it time. Also, stop qqing about zergs having a good all-in when the 1-1-1 dominated the pro scene for like 6 MONTHS before protoss started to figure it out The protoss didn't "figure it out," they were buffed. This. Immortal range buff?
This is a misnomer. The 1/1/1 was being held before the immortal buff, but infrequently and with good micro. The immortal buff certainly helped but it's not like it was unbeatable before hand, rather that it required near perfect decision making and scouting to hold. The immortal buff isn't specifically what made the build beatable for protoss, but it did allow for protoss to have reliable macro openings (1 gate FE without probe cuts) and still be able to hold it
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On June 26 2012 11:42 Protosnake wrote:Show nested quote +That is why EMP is scaled, it is maximized if ghosts can cast it before the engagement. The longer the battle goes, the less effective EMP is. Meanwhile, storms and fungal can do consistent damage throughout the battle. How many times you see at the end of battle, a wild infestor or HT appear and demolish the whole army? So many times. And how many times at the end of the battle, you see a wild ghost appear and demolish the whole army? Never. That's because fungal and storm does not stack, when EMP does So when a terran engage, he will just empty all of his EMP and maybe snipe in the first second, when Infestor/HT will try to keep them active every 4sec to make them worthwile
Stack? There're only 3 units in Protoss army that have 100 shield (immortal, collosus, and archon) and all three are so bigass that if you try to hit them with 1.5 radius emp, you are gonna miss other units.
You should try to play Terran and see how hard it is to emp infestor/HT. As I said, Ghosts is an initiator unit, you need to emp them before they cast spell, or the effectiveness will decrease to none. Nowaday, players keep their casters way back, making it really hard to snipe anymore. Moreover, it happens very often that when you land all the emp, you think that that's all the casters, but then a wild infestor or HT appear in the late battle and your whole army is gone. The new creep spread makes it so much easier for reinforced infestors to rally up and fungal what left of Terran army.
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On June 26 2012 07:42 ysnake wrote:
I am all up for buffing early game Terrans as long as it isn't the godlike early Hellion harass who is a direct counter to Zerg's only units when they arrive (Zerglings), and plus, they have bonus attack against workers as well, and quite frankly, a couple of Hellions can outright win the game from the start, or put the Zerg so far behind that he cannot catch up.
But they need to be vary of what are they buffing, as the current metagame in TvP is quite favoring Terran in early and mid stages of the game.
I am also tired of the current state of the game, especially for the Zerg, as everything comes down to "ok, when do I get my Brood Lords out?", and it's a unit I think rarely any Zerg player likes to use, but they are just too damn good not to use them. And I do not like the games where both players just turtle up, get 200/200 best composition, fight once and win the game, something like Mech Terran.
But again, 3/3 bio is retarded as well. We'll see, many things have to be taken into consideration before making any huge steps.
While on the Queen topic, I think 4 range would be perfectly acceptable as long as they keep the air range on 5, as any SG opening is really devastating, as Zerg's only units that can shoot air (aside from Queens and Spore Crawlers) are Hydras (Lair tech, by the time Spire finishes and you're relying on those units to defend you against ongoing onslaught of Void Rays/Phoenixes, you lose), which are currently useless.
Just FYI, Queen's air range is 7.
On June 26 2012 12:19 canikizu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 11:42 Protosnake wrote:That is why EMP is scaled, it is maximized if ghosts can cast it before the engagement. The longer the battle goes, the less effective EMP is. Meanwhile, storms and fungal can do consistent damage throughout the battle. How many times you see at the end of battle, a wild infestor or HT appear and demolish the whole army? So many times. And how many times at the end of the battle, you see a wild ghost appear and demolish the whole army? Never. That's because fungal and storm does not stack, when EMP does So when a terran engage, he will just empty all of his EMP and maybe snipe in the first second, when Infestor/HT will try to keep them active every 4sec to make them worthwile Stack? There're only 3 units in Protoss army that have 100 shield (immortal, collosus, and archon) and all three are so bigass that if you try to hit them with 1.5 radius emp, you are gonna miss other units. You should try to play Terran and see how hard it is to emp infestor/HT. As I said, Ghosts is an initiator unit, you need to emp them before they cast spell, or the effectiveness will decrease to none. Nowaday, players keep their casters way back, making it really hard to snipe anymore. Moreover, it happens very often that when you land all the emp, you think that that's all the casters, but then a wild infestor or HT appear in the late battle and your whole army is gone. The new creep spread makes it so much easier for reinforced infestors to rally up and fungal what left of Terran army.
^ The effectiveness of Ghosts lie at the start of the battle. EMPs have to land before Terran's main units attack against Protoss otherwise it's a waste and does nothing. EMP technically does 100 shield damage, but it's a very misleading figure to cite. How many units does Protoss have that actually has 100 shields?
Zealots, Stalkers both don't and they're the core army composition units. Just Voidrays, Carriers, Immortals and Colossus. None of which are that common or should be in extremely high numbers during a fight.
Storms and FG on the otherhand are beneficial and useful throughout the entire fight. If the Terran Bio-ball lands a few shots on the Protoss's units first. That is that much less damage the EMP will actually be doing.
Likewise vs Zerg, Ghosts have to land their EMPs first before Infestors FG. With the decrease in EMP radius, it's made it much more difficult catch many Infestors in EMPs since they're a large unit. More EMPs are required to drain their energy. Not to mention the Snipe nerf has severely decreased the usefulness of Ghosts past the inital EMP volley.
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On June 26 2012 12:01 heyitskez wrote:
Yeah that 5 second rax build time increase CRUSHED terran openers...Terrans just need to figure out a different opener than hellions. Give it time. Also, stop qqing about zergs having a good all-in when the 1-1-1 dominated the pro scene for like 6 MONTHS before protoss started to figure it out
It significantly nerfed 2rax, to the point of crushing it, unless proxied.
It can still be effective, but the macro variation of the build has been nearly completely phased out.
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On June 26 2012 12:55 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 12:01 heyitskez wrote:
Yeah that 5 second rax build time increase CRUSHED terran openers...Terrans just need to figure out a different opener than hellions. Give it time. Also, stop qqing about zergs having a good all-in when the 1-1-1 dominated the pro scene for like 6 MONTHS before protoss started to figure it out It significantly nerfed 2rax, to the point of crushing it, unless proxied. It can still be effective, but the macro variation of the build has been nearly completely phased out.
Bunker build time has been nerfed twice. From 30-35, then to 35-40. With the Barrack build time increase, it means the quickest bunker rush that can occur is 15secs slower than pre-nerfs.
It wasn't any 1 change that made offensive 2Rax strategies harder. It's various small changes that made it much more difficult to perform. When it's implemented slowly throughout various patches, people tend to forget the previous changes that have occured and just remember the latest one. Mixed with the removal of smaller maps in ladder pools and tournament settings, as well as close-spawns, its made it much more difficult to perform some strategies.
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On June 26 2012 13:12 Eps wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 12:55 FabledIntegral wrote:On June 26 2012 12:01 heyitskez wrote:
Yeah that 5 second rax build time increase CRUSHED terran openers...Terrans just need to figure out a different opener than hellions. Give it time. Also, stop qqing about zergs having a good all-in when the 1-1-1 dominated the pro scene for like 6 MONTHS before protoss started to figure it out It significantly nerfed 2rax, to the point of crushing it, unless proxied. It can still be effective, but the macro variation of the build has been nearly completely phased out. Bunker build time has been nerfed twice. From 30-35, then to 35-40. With the Barrack build time increase, it means the quickest bunker rush that can occur is 15secs slower than pre-nerfs. It wasn't any 1 change that made offensive 2Rax strategies harder. It's various small changes that made it much more difficult to perform. When it's implemented slowly throughout various patches, people tend to forget the previous changes that have occured and just remember the latest one. Mixed with the removal of smaller maps in ladder pools and tournament settings, as well as close-spawns, its made it much more difficult to perform some strategies.
Macro 2rax didn't pull scvs to make bunkers, so that's fairly irrelevant. It only tried to use the scouting SCV to make one, with potentially a second SCV brought.
It was IMMEDIATELY after the rax nerf that 2rax lost popularity.
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It's honestly so bad for me that I've stopped playing, because I feel like I can't win anymore in tvz. It's made zerg feel so much easier than terran. Not only is it bad for pros, but us lower level players have it even worse. I now have to outplay zergs to a degree that makes almost zero sense, and I'm just getting tired of blizzard's meddling with this game. Brood war was just as complex as this game, if not moreso, and players did very well without patches every damned month or two buggering up the pro level metagame and completely bumfucking the non-pros.
It's getting kind of tiring. Starcraft II felt like it could be a real success, but it's been mired in blizzard's meddling and attempts to control things completely...
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On June 26 2012 12:45 Eps wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 07:42 ysnake wrote:
I am all up for buffing early game Terrans as long as it isn't the godlike early Hellion harass who is a direct counter to Zerg's only units when they arrive (Zerglings), and plus, they have bonus attack against workers as well, and quite frankly, a couple of Hellions can outright win the game from the start, or put the Zerg so far behind that he cannot catch up.
But they need to be vary of what are they buffing, as the current metagame in TvP is quite favoring Terran in early and mid stages of the game.
I am also tired of the current state of the game, especially for the Zerg, as everything comes down to "ok, when do I get my Brood Lords out?", and it's a unit I think rarely any Zerg player likes to use, but they are just too damn good not to use them. And I do not like the games where both players just turtle up, get 200/200 best composition, fight once and win the game, something like Mech Terran.
But again, 3/3 bio is retarded as well. We'll see, many things have to be taken into consideration before making any huge steps.
While on the Queen topic, I think 4 range would be perfectly acceptable as long as they keep the air range on 5, as any SG opening is really devastating, as Zerg's only units that can shoot air (aside from Queens and Spore Crawlers) are Hydras (Lair tech, by the time Spire finishes and you're relying on those units to defend you against ongoing onslaught of Void Rays/Phoenixes, you lose), which are currently useless. Just FYI, Queen's air range is 7. Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 12:19 canikizu wrote:On June 26 2012 11:42 Protosnake wrote:That is why EMP is scaled, it is maximized if ghosts can cast it before the engagement. The longer the battle goes, the less effective EMP is. Meanwhile, storms and fungal can do consistent damage throughout the battle. How many times you see at the end of battle, a wild infestor or HT appear and demolish the whole army? So many times. And how many times at the end of the battle, you see a wild ghost appear and demolish the whole army? Never. That's because fungal and storm does not stack, when EMP does So when a terran engage, he will just empty all of his EMP and maybe snipe in the first second, when Infestor/HT will try to keep them active every 4sec to make them worthwile Stack? There're only 3 units in Protoss army that have 100 shield (immortal, collosus, and archon) and all three are so bigass that if you try to hit them with 1.5 radius emp, you are gonna miss other units. You should try to play Terran and see how hard it is to emp infestor/HT. As I said, Ghosts is an initiator unit, you need to emp them before they cast spell, or the effectiveness will decrease to none. Nowaday, players keep their casters way back, making it really hard to snipe anymore. Moreover, it happens very often that when you land all the emp, you think that that's all the casters, but then a wild infestor or HT appear in the late battle and your whole army is gone. The new creep spread makes it so much easier for reinforced infestors to rally up and fungal what left of Terran army. ^ The effectiveness of Ghosts lie at the start of the battle. EMPs have to land before Terran's main units attack against Protoss otherwise it's a waste and does nothing. EMP technically does 100 shield damage, but it's a very misleading figure to cite. How many units does Protoss have that actually has 100 shields? Zealots, Stalkers both don't and they're the core army composition units. Just Voidrays, Carriers, Immortals and Colossus. None of which are that common or should be in extremely high numbers during a fight. Storms and FG on the otherhand are beneficial and useful throughout the entire fight. If the Terran Bio-ball lands a few shots on the Protoss's units first. That is that much less damage the EMP will actually be doing. Likewise vs Zerg, Ghosts have to land their EMPs first before Infestors FG. With the decrease in EMP radius, it's made it much more difficult catch many Infestors in EMPs since they're a large unit. More EMPs are required to drain their energy. Not to mention the Snipe nerf has severely decreased the usefulness of Ghosts past the inital EMP volley.
Firstly, you're splitting hairs to say EMP isn't 100% effective against stalkers when half their 'health' is shields. EMP reduces stalkers to low dps versions of hydras, and we all know how awesome they are 
Why is everyone leaving out the primary unit EMP deals with these days, the Archon.
In fact, most games I see terran not holding ghosts in reserve and the first warp in once the ghosts are dead is all HT that immediately morph to archons and it's the 8 archons that finish off the terran.
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On June 26 2012 14:23 Kharnage wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 12:45 Eps wrote:On June 26 2012 07:42 ysnake wrote:
I am all up for buffing early game Terrans as long as it isn't the godlike early Hellion harass who is a direct counter to Zerg's only units when they arrive (Zerglings), and plus, they have bonus attack against workers as well, and quite frankly, a couple of Hellions can outright win the game from the start, or put the Zerg so far behind that he cannot catch up.
But they need to be vary of what are they buffing, as the current metagame in TvP is quite favoring Terran in early and mid stages of the game.
I am also tired of the current state of the game, especially for the Zerg, as everything comes down to "ok, when do I get my Brood Lords out?", and it's a unit I think rarely any Zerg player likes to use, but they are just too damn good not to use them. And I do not like the games where both players just turtle up, get 200/200 best composition, fight once and win the game, something like Mech Terran.
But again, 3/3 bio is retarded as well. We'll see, many things have to be taken into consideration before making any huge steps.
While on the Queen topic, I think 4 range would be perfectly acceptable as long as they keep the air range on 5, as any SG opening is really devastating, as Zerg's only units that can shoot air (aside from Queens and Spore Crawlers) are Hydras (Lair tech, by the time Spire finishes and you're relying on those units to defend you against ongoing onslaught of Void Rays/Phoenixes, you lose), which are currently useless. Just FYI, Queen's air range is 7. On June 26 2012 12:19 canikizu wrote:On June 26 2012 11:42 Protosnake wrote:That is why EMP is scaled, it is maximized if ghosts can cast it before the engagement. The longer the battle goes, the less effective EMP is. Meanwhile, storms and fungal can do consistent damage throughout the battle. How many times you see at the end of battle, a wild infestor or HT appear and demolish the whole army? So many times. And how many times at the end of the battle, you see a wild ghost appear and demolish the whole army? Never. That's because fungal and storm does not stack, when EMP does So when a terran engage, he will just empty all of his EMP and maybe snipe in the first second, when Infestor/HT will try to keep them active every 4sec to make them worthwile Stack? There're only 3 units in Protoss army that have 100 shield (immortal, collosus, and archon) and all three are so bigass that if you try to hit them with 1.5 radius emp, you are gonna miss other units. You should try to play Terran and see how hard it is to emp infestor/HT. As I said, Ghosts is an initiator unit, you need to emp them before they cast spell, or the effectiveness will decrease to none. Nowaday, players keep their casters way back, making it really hard to snipe anymore. Moreover, it happens very often that when you land all the emp, you think that that's all the casters, but then a wild infestor or HT appear in the late battle and your whole army is gone. The new creep spread makes it so much easier for reinforced infestors to rally up and fungal what left of Terran army. ^ The effectiveness of Ghosts lie at the start of the battle. EMPs have to land before Terran's main units attack against Protoss otherwise it's a waste and does nothing. EMP technically does 100 shield damage, but it's a very misleading figure to cite. How many units does Protoss have that actually has 100 shields? Zealots, Stalkers both don't and they're the core army composition units. Just Voidrays, Carriers, Immortals and Colossus. None of which are that common or should be in extremely high numbers during a fight. Storms and FG on the otherhand are beneficial and useful throughout the entire fight. If the Terran Bio-ball lands a few shots on the Protoss's units first. That is that much less damage the EMP will actually be doing. Likewise vs Zerg, Ghosts have to land their EMPs first before Infestors FG. With the decrease in EMP radius, it's made it much more difficult catch many Infestors in EMPs since they're a large unit. More EMPs are required to drain their energy. Not to mention the Snipe nerf has severely decreased the usefulness of Ghosts past the inital EMP volley. Firstly, you're splitting hairs to say EMP isn't 100% effective against stalkers when half their 'health' is shields. EMP reduces stalkers to low dps versions of hydras, and we all know how awesome they are Why is everyone leaving out the primary unit EMP deals with these days, the Archon. In fact, most games I see terran not holding ghosts in reserve and the first warp in once the ghosts are dead is all HT that immediately morph to archons and it's the 8 archons that finish off the terran.
You could say I'm doing that, but the point remains valid and is indisputable. Zealots have 50 shields and 100 hp. That's only a 1/3 of their HP. For Stalkers, it's 50%. After the initial shields are removed, EMP is useless. Storms and FG remain viable throughout the entire confrontation.
Can you EMP a half-dead ball of Protoss units to death? No, it won't do anything at all. But you can Storm down a damaged Bio-ball.
Archons are part of the problem, but not the only reason why late game TvP is difficult. After the big fight between the two armies, the glass-cannon Marines die out from AOE and what you have left are Marauders and Medivacs usually. A few Warp-in rounds of Zealots and Archons are usually enough to deal with whatever forces Terran has remaining. It's the combination of the two, and the late-game after-army trade that makes it so difficult for Terran to deal with.
It's also why Blizzard created Battle Hellions to help Terrans, but I guess they get nothing in WoL.
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On June 26 2012 14:23 Kharnage wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 12:45 Eps wrote:On June 26 2012 07:42 ysnake wrote:
I am all up for buffing early game Terrans as long as it isn't the godlike early Hellion harass who is a direct counter to Zerg's only units when they arrive (Zerglings), and plus, they have bonus attack against workers as well, and quite frankly, a couple of Hellions can outright win the game from the start, or put the Zerg so far behind that he cannot catch up.
But they need to be vary of what are they buffing, as the current metagame in TvP is quite favoring Terran in early and mid stages of the game.
I am also tired of the current state of the game, especially for the Zerg, as everything comes down to "ok, when do I get my Brood Lords out?", and it's a unit I think rarely any Zerg player likes to use, but they are just too damn good not to use them. And I do not like the games where both players just turtle up, get 200/200 best composition, fight once and win the game, something like Mech Terran.
But again, 3/3 bio is retarded as well. We'll see, many things have to be taken into consideration before making any huge steps.
While on the Queen topic, I think 4 range would be perfectly acceptable as long as they keep the air range on 5, as any SG opening is really devastating, as Zerg's only units that can shoot air (aside from Queens and Spore Crawlers) are Hydras (Lair tech, by the time Spire finishes and you're relying on those units to defend you against ongoing onslaught of Void Rays/Phoenixes, you lose), which are currently useless. Just FYI, Queen's air range is 7. On June 26 2012 12:19 canikizu wrote:On June 26 2012 11:42 Protosnake wrote:That is why EMP is scaled, it is maximized if ghosts can cast it before the engagement. The longer the battle goes, the less effective EMP is. Meanwhile, storms and fungal can do consistent damage throughout the battle. How many times you see at the end of battle, a wild infestor or HT appear and demolish the whole army? So many times. And how many times at the end of the battle, you see a wild ghost appear and demolish the whole army? Never. That's because fungal and storm does not stack, when EMP does So when a terran engage, he will just empty all of his EMP and maybe snipe in the first second, when Infestor/HT will try to keep them active every 4sec to make them worthwile Stack? There're only 3 units in Protoss army that have 100 shield (immortal, collosus, and archon) and all three are so bigass that if you try to hit them with 1.5 radius emp, you are gonna miss other units. You should try to play Terran and see how hard it is to emp infestor/HT. As I said, Ghosts is an initiator unit, you need to emp them before they cast spell, or the effectiveness will decrease to none. Nowaday, players keep their casters way back, making it really hard to snipe anymore. Moreover, it happens very often that when you land all the emp, you think that that's all the casters, but then a wild infestor or HT appear in the late battle and your whole army is gone. The new creep spread makes it so much easier for reinforced infestors to rally up and fungal what left of Terran army. ^ The effectiveness of Ghosts lie at the start of the battle. EMPs have to land before Terran's main units attack against Protoss otherwise it's a waste and does nothing. EMP technically does 100 shield damage, but it's a very misleading figure to cite. How many units does Protoss have that actually has 100 shields? Zealots, Stalkers both don't and they're the core army composition units. Just Voidrays, Carriers, Immortals and Colossus. None of which are that common or should be in extremely high numbers during a fight. Storms and FG on the otherhand are beneficial and useful throughout the entire fight. If the Terran Bio-ball lands a few shots on the Protoss's units first. That is that much less damage the EMP will actually be doing. Likewise vs Zerg, Ghosts have to land their EMPs first before Infestors FG. With the decrease in EMP radius, it's made it much more difficult catch many Infestors in EMPs since they're a large unit. More EMPs are required to drain their energy. Not to mention the Snipe nerf has severely decreased the usefulness of Ghosts past the inital EMP volley. Firstly, you're splitting hairs to say EMP isn't 100% effective against stalkers when half their 'health' is shields. EMP reduces stalkers to low dps versions of hydras, and we all know how awesome they are Why is everyone leaving out the primary unit EMP deals with these days, the Archon. In fact, most games I see terran not holding ghosts in reserve and the first warp in once the ghosts are dead is all HT that immediately morph to archons and it's the 8 archons that finish off the terran.
Holding in reserve? You're lucky to win the initial battle, lol, let alone the reinforcement waves of zealot/archon...
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I'm not saying this would fix things, but it would be interesting to see what would happen if you could only make one queen per hatchery. To compensate they could maybe start with 50 energy so you could throw a creep tumor down as they spawned, but subsequent creep tumors would have to come at the expense of larvae.
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On June 20 2012 14:49 rufflesQueso wrote:
I really want Zerg to help Terrans out by telling us what kinds of builds they feel most scared going up against. As it is right now, TvZ feels really really hopeless. If you compare it to the other match-up that we bitch about (TvP), this one feels hopeless. TvP is do-able, at least.
I am hopeless against good mech. Idk how some terrans do mech so well. Sometimes i crush mech, but normally i just get eaten alive by it, even when i get broodlords out. I think making lots of blueflame hellions to suicide harrass help alot. And upgrades. Also good scouting so you know whether to favor thors over tanks or not. I'm not a terran player so I really don't know how to do this style very well, I guess you should just get with your best meching-buddy and ask him to teach you the ways.
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On June 26 2012 14:57 svefnleysi wrote:
I'm not saying this would fix things, but it would be interesting to see what would happen if you could only make one queen per hatchery. To compensate they could maybe start with 50 energy so you could throw a creep tumor down as they spawned, but subsequent creep tumors would have to come at the expense of larvae.
Nearly impossible to stop banshees as well as voids from killing your third.
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I've been saying for ages as the game progressed and as Zerg/Toss figured out all of the terran openings Terran as a race would get weaker and weaker because Terran late game is just a joke. In TvP and TvZ as soon as it gets past 3 bases it's a lost cause for the Terran. Mech is terrible in TvP no matter how hard people try to innovate the match up it's like pounding a round peg into a square hole and Bio is just in general weaker than the Toss deathball. It seems so stupid to me that one race HAS to do damage. When one race is forced to be doing something to cause damage all the time it is simply not fair. Attacking requires more attention, skill and clicks than defending does.
Zerg is the exact same (minus the mech part). You HAVE to do damage early and keep on the pressure to even have a chance late game. Even if you drop 24/7, deny thirds, and kill tons of drones all it takes to lose the game is a single misclick and a Bling, Fungal, or Storm.
I think my major issue is that every time a Terran player figured out a new strat it always gets nerfed either slowly or right into oblivion. I can't think of a build that wasn't being beaten by the time Blizz heavy handily nerfed the shit out of something other than the Ghost snipe but that was only seen a in a handful of pro games. And people keep saying "Stop whining and figure out new builds". Terran has been by far the most innovative race in SC2 and eventually there will be nothing left to innovate to. We may be at that point or we may not but the other races have been getting buffed and terran has been constantly nerfed.
Blizz is a joke. They nerfed thors because they didn't like how it looked en masse. How the fuck is that in anyway a good way to decide how to buff and nerf things and vastly change the game for people who earn a living off of it over nothing... Every time they change anything it totally changes the game and they often do it right before major tournaments. I don't understand why they can't do small changes and see how things go and slowly change things as needed instead of huge changes. They can't even fucking handle banning hackers.
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EPT
