• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 17:27
CEST 23:27
KST 06:27
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall12HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed12Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll4Team TLMC #5 - Submission extension3Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7
StarCraft 2
General
The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Who will win EWC 2025? Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome
Brood War
General
ASL20 Preliminary Maps Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Starcraft in widescreen
Tourneys
Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches [Megathread] Daily Proleagues CSL Xiamen International Invitational [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Segway man no more. Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Men Take Risks, Women Win Ga…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 824 users

Reluctance to Re-Introduce BW-Units - Page 4

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 41 42 43 Next All
stormchaser
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada1009 Posts
June 16 2012 17:04 GMT
#61
On June 17 2012 01:52 DemigodcelpH wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 17 2012 01:43 stormchaser wrote:
On June 17 2012 00:59 DemigodcelpH wrote:
Because Dustin Browder is cancer with his "go play BW it's a great game" line. He has no talent, is too old, and isn't suited for the job he has. Him and his goons prefer their pride over admitting they introduced fundamental balance flaws that can be fixed by taking a hint from some of the BW units.

Sorry about the negative tone, but it sums up the answer to your question.

Hm who would've known that the whole blizzard dev team is actually comprised of one person.


I said specifically said "and his goons". Please read before you write next time.

First sentence kid.
SarcasmMonster
Profile Joined October 2011
3136 Posts
June 16 2012 17:06 GMT
#62
Adding BW replicas is not the only way to add meaningful units...
MMA: The true King of Wings
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
June 16 2012 17:07 GMT
#63
On June 17 2012 02:03 Freeze967 wrote:
Some of it might be because of lore reasons. They might make the Warhound have the exact same stats as the Goliath does, but if they just brought back the Goliath people might ask why wasn't it used in WoL. Maybe they have a nice campaign for HotS^^


The Goliath was in the WoL campaign.
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
Synche
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1345 Posts
June 16 2012 17:09 GMT
#64
On June 17 2012 01:47 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 17 2012 00:59 DemigodcelpH wrote:
Because Dustin Browder is cancer with his "go play BW it's a great game" line. He has no talent, is too old, and isn't suited for the job he has. Him and his goons prefer their pride over admitting they introduced fundamental balance flaws that can be fixed by taking a hint from some of the BW units.

Sorry about the negative tone, but it sums up the answer to your question.


This.

More specifically, SC2 is incredibly well balanced. That said, it still has some fundamental design flaws, and the majority of them are units that make the game very generic and boring (Colossus, Roach, Marauder). Unfortunately, the SC2 developers refuse to suck up their pride and at least take some inspiration from BW units and make new units/tweak units to make the game more interesting. It seems like they are insulted by constant comparisons from BW so they want to make SC2 completely different and try to make it better than BW to give themselves an ego boost, regardless of the consequences.


Man I swear that line annoys me, but what annoys me more is the epic failure that is Kennigit every time he says that. I want to scream at him each time ASK A DECENT FOLLOW UP.

I'll give three right now in case someone every get the chance to interview the DB.

1) What people are talking about is the specific micro situations that are needed in BW. Pathing can stay the same, but specifically designing in things like carrier micro can revitalize a unit without changing the pathing of the overall game.

2) Deathballs are indeed easier to make in SC2 but what about designing less units that only require an attack move, like the colossus, and more units that need to be microed properly, like the marine.

2a) Don't you think that the colossus is simply bad from both a gameplay and a spectator experience? Why do you feel a need to attack move units at all in an esport?

3) Ignoring pathing altogether, do you feel fights happen too quickly? The ability to retreat from a poor engagement is limited, do you think something as simply as slowing down the game speed might be a worthwhile choice to help with this?

I mean I know he's aware of a lot of these issues but I think he's just not looking at enough options with enough urgency.
a176
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada6688 Posts
June 16 2012 17:09 GMT
#65
On June 17 2012 01:51 Azzur wrote:
I agree with Dustin Browder's stance - if you want BW units, go play BW. It is already theoretically possible to make BW units in the SC2 editor - if there's demand for it, it would've already happened.


the units in HotS essentially mimic their BW counterparts, but are not their bw counterparts. viper for example (dark swam, consume). so why do we still have old units like templar, hydra, etc, but not the rest of the units?
starleague forever
GARO
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States2255 Posts
June 16 2012 17:09 GMT
#66
On June 17 2012 02:04 stormchaser wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 17 2012 01:52 DemigodcelpH wrote:
On June 17 2012 01:43 stormchaser wrote:
On June 17 2012 00:59 DemigodcelpH wrote:
Because Dustin Browder is cancer with his "go play BW it's a great game" line. He has no talent, is too old, and isn't suited for the job he has. Him and his goons prefer their pride over admitting they introduced fundamental balance flaws that can be fixed by taking a hint from some of the BW units.

Sorry about the negative tone, but it sums up the answer to your question.

Hm who would've known that the whole blizzard dev team is actually comprised of one person.


I said specifically said "and his goons". Please read before you write next time.

First sentence kid.

Maybe you should reread what you quoted kid.
Thaniri
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1264 Posts
June 16 2012 17:10 GMT
#67
The Warhound is pure idiocy exemplified.

Factory marauder that looks like a mech warrior and nothing like a sc2 unit.

I don't care if people say it is a lack of creativity, but the factory 'hole' would be filled so easily with a goliath, and much more elegantly.
empty.bottle
Profile Joined July 2009
685 Posts
June 16 2012 17:12 GMT
#68
On June 17 2012 01:09 sharky246 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 17 2012 01:00 jalstar wrote:
It's lose-lose for Blizzard. If they bring back exact copies they get flamed for lacking creativity. If they add new units they get flamed because there was nothing wrong with BW units, so why change them?

Would they really get flamed for bringing exact copies? I mean look at dota 2, it is exactly the same as dota 1, just better graphics, nobody is flaming them for lack of creativity.


Dota 2 is not a sequel, It's a standalone version of DotA.
LoL and HoN are like the Sc2s of Dota.
R3DT1D3
Profile Joined January 2012
285 Posts
June 16 2012 17:13 GMT
#69
The BW units don't fit into the style of game SC2 is. The lurker for instance, would be incredibly hard to balance as a splash damage unit because there's very little squad tactics in SC2 compared to BW so splash hits the most of the army. Likewise goliaths would only really matter in TvT because of how SC2 air is balanced.

I'd love to see the game become more like BW but SC2 is just designed to take that kind of gameplay out of the equation.
TanKLoveR
Profile Joined August 2008
Venezuela838 Posts
June 16 2012 17:13 GMT
#70
It seems silly from blizzard not to, i mean look at the Raven most useless unit in the game and the least used. They should just give up and bring the science vessel which was a much better unit that would help terrans with mutas <.< but NO too proud to admit defeat that the raven sucks. Goliath like the OP said should also be in, good counter vs mutas and air units in general plus goes decently with mech.

I wouldn't mind seeing the reaver back but i can see that unit being tough to kill for zerg and protoss with current units, protoss would just keep the reaver at the back of the ball of death and would be difficult to focus fire. Colossus is much easier unit to deal with and easy to operate for the sc2 noobs i suppose . Besides that I dont really have any complains about swarm host and what not, the viper it's basically a flying defiler so people dont let it die so easily.
Moroshima Haruka, forever best girl. My dream is to die thinking "Wow, that was fun. I'm tired."
Synche
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1345 Posts
June 16 2012 17:14 GMT
#71
On June 17 2012 02:06 SarcasmMonster wrote:
Adding BW replicas is not the only way to add meaningful units...


It's not the units but its the gameplay. Seriously I'm an SC2 guy, I have absolutely no attachment to BW, but I go back and see those games or watch PL and you can see the design flaws in SC2 if you just look with your eyes open.

And you don't need to go back to horrible pathing to fix these things, a lot of them can be specifically designed into the game.

Idea:

What if carriers specifically built in carrier micro back into them? i.e. the interceptors keep attacking the target for half a second (or whatever time, balance it) after the carrier is given the move command. Is there any reason this can't be done?? Just DB.
Bagi
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6799 Posts
June 16 2012 17:15 GMT
#72
On June 17 2012 02:09 a176 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 17 2012 01:51 Azzur wrote:
I agree with Dustin Browder's stance - if you want BW units, go play BW. It is already theoretically possible to make BW units in the SC2 editor - if there's demand for it, it would've already happened.


the units in HotS essentially mimic their BW counterparts, but are not their bw counterparts. viper for example (dark swam, consume). so why do we still have old units like templar, hydra, etc, but not the rest of the units?

What about the fact that it flies?

The fact that abduct is a completely new skill?

The fact that its cloud ability works in very different ways (only affects bio, reduces range but allows them to deal damage)?

The fact that its "consume" also works in fundamentally different way, since you need to be in your own base to use it?

It's ridiculous how people are resorting to such exaggerations to make a point. Same with the warhound, its a mech walker so it must be the same thing as a goliath, right?
Proseat
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Germany5113 Posts
June 16 2012 17:18 GMT
#73
I wonder how story-wise it pans out that the Zerg or any other race would suddenly stop building much more successful older units like the Lurker or Scourges.
The Rise and Fall of SlayerS -- a timeline: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=378097
corumjhaelen
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
France6884 Posts
June 16 2012 17:21 GMT
#74
The subject of the thread is interesting and all, but I'd just like to state that the Viper's ability has nothing to do with Dark Swarm. In fact, it's pretty much disruption web which was on the corsair. If people could stop making that comparison I'd feel much better reading this.
‎numquam se plus agere quam nihil cum ageret, numquam minus solum esse quam cum solus esset
lorkac
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2297 Posts
June 16 2012 17:24 GMT
#75
If you listen to a lot of Browder's interviews he actually gave a lot of sideways answers to your question.

The main things that have stopped them from bringing them back is linked to the effectiveness, their desire for a linear design path, and their need for regulated succession of tech opportunities without causing overlap.

For example, let us take the Lurker. (Everyone's fave go to unit when talking about this)

Browder's team wants Zerg to have weak early game AA

What does this mean?

Zerglings, Roaches, and Banelings don't shoot up. Crawlers and Queens are stuck on creep.

The Hydralisk at hatch tech would break that race design preference by being a mobile anti-air unit during the early game.

Browder's team also wants for tech progression to be linear with fancier stuff being "up a notch" in tech.

So hatch tech gets you Roaches, Zerglings, and Banelings while lair tech gets you Hydras, Infestors, and Mutalisks.

The Hydras have to be Lair tech to give zerg a weak early game AA. So it would seam weird and non-linear to have Hydralisks AND Lurkers be available at the same tech--Lair Tech. So, much like Overseer and the Broodlord, the only logical place to put Lurkers would be Hive tech.

What did this cause?

I remember David Kim saying that it made the Lurker too weak in their testing. Why?

Because hive tech does not normally come until way deep into the game. The Lurker could no longer play the role people wanted it to play because at Hive tech, the Lurker was already the Unit lurkers would stall the game to get to.

In BW, Lurkers allowed you to be safe as you teched hard to defilers. Once you had Defilers and extra gas bases you were able to start pushing back. With the Lurker at Hive tech--it would turn from a defensive siege weapon with offensive capabilities based on timing attacks into a cloaked Hydralisk.

So why isn't the Lurker in the game?

Because of the combination of two philosophies that shoved the Lurker too high up the tech tree.

Is it easy to fix? Yes, technically, but it would a restructuring of the game.

Roaches and Hydralisks switch spots. Queen loses her AA ability becoming a purely melee unit while Hydralisks are slowed down even more off creep. (About the same speed as the queen off creep would suffice)

Lair tech would then lead to our first overlap issue. Roaches and Lurkers seems to both take up the "burrowed combat unit" slot at the same tech juncture. How do you resolve it?

You give us back the old roach and make the lurker move slow off creep (about as fast as the Hydralisk is now)

3 range, 2 armor, and 1 supply.

This creates a dynamic choice in unit composition and tactical space control.

Roaches would be really good at moving out into the map to do hit and runs. At lair tech they come late enough that marauders and Immortals will be online in time. The roaches will be a lot weaker (forcefields actually forcefields roaches) marines would actually be able to kite roaches, etc... but there will be more of them.

Lurkers would be slow units that you use to hold key positions At hydra Speed you're more likely to be keeping them where you are spreading creep while needing drop tech to actually be able to harass with them.

Why don't they do this? That I can't tell you. But I do know why they don't have the Lurker. At least, what I believe their reasons to be based off of how they talk about unit design in their interviews.

It isn't important that we have our own logical reasons for having certain units "back," what you need to figure out is why it is that Browder and his team reached the conclusion they did. They will never listen to your logic of "It would be cooler" or "In BW it was like _____" because at the end of the day those types of arguments and reasonings are subjective. Hech, I could complain that Command and Conquer was way more fun than BW and that we should bring in MORE a-move units like the collossus/mammoth tank.

Try thinking about things from Browder and his team's mindset, then see if there is a better way to present your case based on what it is that they're trying to do.

Personally? I reserve judgement on unit design and unit choices for when Void comes out. We already know that the release of the expansion will not only add units, but it has the options to remove units and completely redesign them as well. Once the Beta is over the release of HotS will show how much they are willing to change their game from expansion to expansion in an attempt to reach a certain level of perfection. We have at least one more reset coming after HotS, I'd rather wait for that before I whine about Protoss not really having a dynamic spellcaster outside of the Sentry...
By the truth we are undone. Life is a dream. Tis waking that kills us. He who robs us of our dreams robs us of our life --Orlando: A Biography
rd
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States2586 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-16 17:29:03
June 16 2012 17:25 GMT
#76
On June 17 2012 02:13 R3DT1D3 wrote:
The BW units don't fit into the style of game SC2 is. The lurker for instance, would be incredibly hard to balance as a splash damage unit because there's very little squad tactics in SC2 compared to BW so splash hits the most of the army. Likewise goliaths would only really matter in TvT because of how SC2 air is balanced.

I'd love to see the game become more like BW but SC2 is just designed to take that kind of gameplay out of the equation.


Ironically in every interview they just love to tell you how much they want to reintroduce 'squad' tactics, encouraging protoss/terran to spread their supply around the map more.

The only real design that removes broodwar-esque gameplay is the fact that units are able to clump unbelieveably tight. The ease of controlling units only piles onto that problem. In every engagement most if not all of the units are attacking at once, making marines/hydralisks unbelieveably powerful and melee units like zerglings/zealots have limited efficiency in poor engagements. AoE is way more cost efficient than it should be, resulting in nerfs to the tank, removal of the lurker and, for more reasons than aoe, weak T1 protoss units. The same overly efficient units like Hydralisk and Marine get murdered by AoE.
SarcasmMonster
Profile Joined October 2011
3136 Posts
June 16 2012 17:25 GMT
#77
On June 17 2012 02:21 corumjhaelen wrote:
The subject of the thread is interesting and all, but I'd just like to state that the Viper's ability has nothing to do with Dark Swarm. In fact, it's pretty much disruption web which was on the corsair. If people could stop making that comparison I'd feel much better reading this.


Disruption web - nothing can attack in it
Blinding cloud - range reduced to 1. Zerglings, ultras, broodlings unaffected. Locusts slightly affected (since they only have 2 range to begin with)
MMA: The true King of Wings
corumjhaelen
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
France6884 Posts
June 16 2012 17:27 GMT
#78
On June 17 2012 02:25 SarcasmMonster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 17 2012 02:21 corumjhaelen wrote:
The subject of the thread is interesting and all, but I'd just like to state that the Viper's ability has nothing to do with Dark Swarm. In fact, it's pretty much disruption web which was on the corsair. If people could stop making that comparison I'd feel much better reading this.


Disruption web - nothing can attack in it
Blinding cloud - range reduced to 1. Zerglings, ultras, broodlings unaffected. Locusts slightly affected (since they only have 2 range to begin with)

Yes, I said it's "pretty much" disruption web. Very different from dark swarm. In less good. I somehow have doubts it will be seen really often.
‎numquam se plus agere quam nihil cum ageret, numquam minus solum esse quam cum solus esset
canikizu
Profile Joined September 2010
4860 Posts
June 16 2012 17:27 GMT
#79
On June 17 2012 02:15 Bagi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 17 2012 02:09 a176 wrote:
On June 17 2012 01:51 Azzur wrote:
I agree with Dustin Browder's stance - if you want BW units, go play BW. It is already theoretically possible to make BW units in the SC2 editor - if there's demand for it, it would've already happened.


the units in HotS essentially mimic their BW counterparts, but are not their bw counterparts. viper for example (dark swam, consume). so why do we still have old units like templar, hydra, etc, but not the rest of the units?

What about the fact that it flies?

The fact that abduct is a completely new skill?

The fact that its cloud ability works in very different ways (only affects bio, reduces range but allows them to deal damage)?

The fact that its "consume" also works in fundamentally different way, since you need to be in your own base to use it?

It's ridiculous how people are resorting to such exaggerations to make a point. Same with the warhound, its a mech walker so it must be the same thing as a goliath, right?

lol you don't know? When it comes out of factory, if it rolls, it's a tank micmic, if it's 4 wheel, it's vulture micmic, if it's walk on 2 leges, it's goliath. SIlly blizzard, should have made war hound to walk on 4 legs, Terran need a unit like that.
TanKLoveR
Profile Joined August 2008
Venezuela838 Posts
June 16 2012 17:27 GMT
#80
On June 17 2012 02:21 corumjhaelen wrote:
The subject of the thread is interesting and all, but I'd just like to state that the Viper's ability has nothing to do with Dark Swarm. In fact, it's pretty much disruption web which was on the corsair. If people could stop making that comparison I'd feel much better reading this.

It is very similar but not quite the same, remember the corsair ability would disable units inside of it AND structures like turrets/spores/sunken/bunkers etc so it was good to take care of static defence and forced people to move out of it if they could, which is just like the blind thing the viper has. But i dont think it affects buildings.
Moroshima Haruka, forever best girl. My dream is to die thinking "Wow, that was fun. I'm tired."
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 41 42 43 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 12h 33m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ZombieGrub227
UpATreeSC 194
Nathanias 131
ForJumy 58
Livibee 32
SC2Nice 15
StarCraft: Brood War
Larva 401
Aegong 97
sas.Sziky 38
Stormgate
NightEnD4
Dota 2
syndereN623
monkeys_forever183
NeuroSwarm70
League of Legends
Grubby4812
Dendi1127
Counter-Strike
sgares734
Stewie2K495
Foxcn460
byalli360
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King97
Liquid`Ken21
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu654
Other Games
summit1g8962
FrodaN2560
shahzam292
C9.Mang0239
Skadoodle120
Pyrionflax120
Trikslyr60
Sick59
ViBE29
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick3089
BasetradeTV84
StarCraft 2
angryscii 28
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 21 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta51
• Hupsaiya 25
• musti20045 13
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Eskiya23 29
• HerbMon 12
• Pr0nogo 9
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22296
League of Legends
• TFBlade662
Other Games
• imaqtpie1906
• Scarra722
• Shiphtur377
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
12h 33m
OSC
15h 33m
WardiTV European League
18h 33m
Fjant vs Babymarine
Mixu vs HiGhDrA
Gerald vs ArT
goblin vs MaNa
Jumy vs YoungYakov
Replay Cast
1d 2h
Epic.LAN
1d 14h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
Epic.LAN
2 days
CSO Contender
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Esports World Cup
5 days
ByuN vs Astrea
Lambo vs HeRoMaRinE
Clem vs TBD
Solar vs Zoun
SHIN vs Reynor
Maru vs TriGGeR
herO vs Lancer
Cure vs ShoWTimE
Esports World Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

BSL 2v2 Season 3
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Championship of Russia 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters

Upcoming

CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
K-Championship
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.