EPTReluctance to Re-Introduce BW-Units - Page 5
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pinball777
United States134 Posts
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SarcasmMonster
3136 Posts
On June 17 2012 02:27 corumjhaelen wrote: Yes, I said it's "pretty much" disruption web. Very different from dark swarm. In less good. I somehow have doubts it will be seen really often. As long as you know the difference. I thought the difference is more than "pretty much disruption web" because the strategy around the spell is very different since composition is much more important with the Viper spell. | ||
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NukeD
Croatia1612 Posts
On June 17 2012 02:21 corumjhaelen wrote: The subject of the thread is interesting and all, but I'd just like to state that the Viper's ability has nothing to do with Dark Swarm. In fact, it's pretty much disruption web which was on the corsair. If people could stop making that comparison I'd feel much better reading this. Noone cares how you feel when your reading this thread. + Show Spoiler + If your last sentence is a product of bad wording, I apologise | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
On June 17 2012 02:27 canikizu wrote: lol you don't know? When it comes out of factory, if it rolls, it's a tank micmic, if it's 4 wheel, it's vulture micmic, if it's walk on 2 leges, it's goliath. SIlly blizzard, should have made war hound to walk on 4 legs, Terran need a unit like that. The sad part is that making it 4-legged and not resemble goliaths probably would've reduced the amount of complaints by a lot. | ||
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lorkac
United States2297 Posts
On June 17 2012 02:27 TanKLoveR wrote: It is very similar but not quite the same, remember the corsair ability would disable units inside of it AND structures like turrets/spores/sunken/bunkers etc so it was good to take care of static defence and forced people to move out of it if they could, which is just like the blind thing the viper has. But i dont think it affects buildings. It really isn't similar to either dark swarm OR disruption web... | ||
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castlewise
31 Posts
On June 17 2012 02:13 R3DT1D3 wrote: The BW units don't fit into the style of game SC2 is. The lurker for instance, would be incredibly hard to balance as a splash damage unit because there's very little squad tactics in SC2 compared to BW so splash hits the most of the army. Likewise goliaths would only really matter in TvT because of how SC2 air is balanced. I'd love to see the game become more like BW but SC2 is just designed to take that kind of gameplay out of the equation. Browder said something like this in his gamespot interview. Specifically he said that the old units from BW were really hard to balance because they *had* to have a certain look and feel to them. Psionic storm was the example he used but it applies to a lot of the BW units. Off Topic, I find the whole pathing thing to be deliciously ironic. Pathing is kind of a challenging/computationally complex problem in general and RTS pathing where lots of little units all have to run around and get from point a to point b in an intelligent fashion is even tougher. Getting pathing from BW to where it is in SC2 must have taken a lot of work. | ||
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Azriel
Mexico462 Posts
This game would be more interesting with automatic formation spreading or something similar. | ||
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SarcasmMonster
3136 Posts
On June 17 2012 02:40 Azriel wrote: Pretty sure they took out the lurker because it ripped the tester's Terran balls to shreds. And thus its replacement the swarm host gets no AOE in order to remain balanced. This game would be more interesting with automatic formation spreading or something similar. That would make the game so much easier. | ||
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MNdakota
United States512 Posts
On June 17 2012 02:40 Azriel wrote: Pretty sure they took out the lurker because it ripped the tester's Terran balls to shreds. And thus its replacement the swarm host gets no AOE in order to remain balanced. This game would be more interesting with automatic formation spreading or something similar. Or you could actually spread out your marines and units. It separates good players from great players. Same goes for the Baneling. They are negated by great micro and play. The same goes for the Lurker. | ||
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thurst0n
United States611 Posts
On June 17 2012 00:57 kafkaesque wrote: Hey guys, having had a look at the new units introduced in HotS, I'm really curious about one thing: Why is Blizzard so reluctant to bring back some of the units from Brood War? Take for instance the War Hound: When first it was announced, it seemed to have an Anti-Air missile and operated very much like the Goliath. Back then I was kind of puzzled by how they did not just bring back the Goliath, with the awesome sound any animation of their Anti-Air rockets. Also strange seems the Swarm Host. People asked for the Lurker, people got the Lurker. Well, kind of. A burrowed siege unit that can be used to break fortified positions? Alright, but why give Zerg a unit that's so shockingly similar to the Brood Lord instead of the sleek, horrifying Lurker people love? I am now die hard Broodwar fan, only having heard from it once SC2 was out, only having played ~50 games vs. the computer, only having a very vague idea about how units work. So please don't crucify me if I got something wrong.  What do you think? Probably mainly because this is SC2 not SC. If they wanted to make the same game with better graphics they could have easily done that. They wanted to make a new game, that's what they did. I'm not too worried about it, BW will always be around, and people will always make BW units with the custom editor sooo.. | ||
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toiletCAT
Qatar284 Posts
On June 17 2012 02:40 Azriel wrote: Pretty sure they took out the lurker because it ripped the tester's Terran balls to shreds. And thus its replacement the swarm host gets no AOE in order to remain balanced. This game would be more interesting with automatic formation spreading or something similar. Let's not turn the game into WarCraft 3 where everything is automated.  | ||
alone
Poland410 Posts
On June 17 2012 02:34 castlewise wrote: Browder said something like this in his gamespot interview. Specifically he said that the old units from BW were really hard to balance because they *had* to have a certain look and feel to them. Psionic storm was the example he used but it applies to a lot of the BW units. Off Topic, I find the whole pathing thing to be deliciously ironic. Pathing is kind of a challenging/computationally complex problem in general and RTS pathing where lots of little units all have to run around and get from point a to point b in an intelligent fashion is even tougher. Getting pathing from BW to where it is in SC2 must have taken a lot of work. Remember that ur talking about the guys who keep on saying "the technologuy is not there yet" when otheres have that "technology"...so dont take mr Browder worlds too seriously. About the whole "bring back BW units" i think its not that ppl want sc bw in 3d, its that new units we got are just...boring (roach, marauder, colosus, coruptor). If starcraft 2 introduced some other, more interesting ideas (not like it didnt introduce any) we wouldnt probably even talk about units that much and focus our complains on something else, like LAN (cuz we always have to complain). | ||
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CrazyF1r3f0x
United States2120 Posts
Even from the testing now, we are seeing more variety; you compared the swarm host to the brood lord--yet I remember beta testers saying that Hydralisks, with their speed upgrade (also from Brood War) were great in combination with these new units--the Brood Lord never did that; not to mention the Swarm host is available much earlier, allowing for many different types of pushes and aggression by Zerg. The Swarm Host gives Zerg a "cloaking threat" as well. I could say stuff about the others, but I think you get my point, these units have potential; why not see how it plays out? | ||
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ixi.genocide
United States981 Posts
On June 17 2012 01:06 Solidarity wrote: I mean, I loved Brood War, and I'm glad many of the units and mechanics of the game are in this one, but why are we clamoring for units that we've used time and again in a game released almost 15 years ago? I'm not interested in still using the Lurker or Goliath. It would just come off as laziness to bring back a bunch of old units. You could say the same thing about the tank >.> or a bunch of other units. | ||
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decaf
Austria1797 Posts
I do think though that blizzard's creativity is lacking a bit. | ||
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SaturnAttack
United States125 Posts
On June 17 2012 02:41 SarcasmMonster wrote: That would make the game so much easier. Having them clump less would extend the engagements instead of having everything melt in seconds. Prolonged engagements, more reliance on spacing, more focus on unit control to overcome size deficits are all noble goals. Those are inherent engine problems though, and its difficult to imagine how to can overcome them no matter what units they put in. | ||
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docvoc
United States5491 Posts
On June 17 2012 01:22 Grobyc wrote: This reply seems the most logical to me. Kind of a shame. I, personally, would be one of the people that would not mind BW units being brought back. The lack of creativity doesn't really bother me. Its not you as much as it is the popular gaming media. If they were to do that, everyone in the BW forums of this site would have rejoiced most likely, but then what would be the point of the game? they could just play brood war instead, it would be like CS:source, a game that is literally the same as the original with some minor tweaks that failed hard because people didn't like the new system. The fact is that the new layout and design has brought many new fans, SC2 is much larger than BW ever was in the foreign field really, if it had just been the same game over again, there would be far fewer new fans, just the old crowd all over again. | ||
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L3gendary
Canada1470 Posts
On June 17 2012 02:42 thurst0n wrote: Probably mainly because this is SC2 not SC. If they wanted to make the same game with better graphics they could have easily done that. They wanted to make a new game, that's what they did. I'm not too worried about it, BW will always be around, and people will always make BW units with the custom editor sooo.. I think you, and a lot of people, are missing the point of this thread. OP is saying that blizz are reluctant to bring back the true bw units themselves despite many of the new units sharing a lot of their features and resemblances. Each of the new units borrows many things from a specific bw unit. viper ->defiler swarm host -> lurker warhound -> goliath battlehelion ->firebat widow mine -> spider mine oracle/mothership ->arbiter The only exception is the tempest. This is in contrast to blizzard's WoL units (that arent exact copies ofc like lings, marines etc), such as colo, roach, marauder, sentry, reaper, corrupter, raven, thor etc etc that don't share similarities to bw units. Only units from WoL that have a similar bw counter part are stalkers and broodlords, at least that i can think of. The question is then, if you're are basically taken the same idea why not just make it the same as the original unit altogether? | ||
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wcr.4fun
Belgium686 Posts
So you have to be active about spreading your units? You had to do that in brood war anyways. You just spread your units and give a new move command? Too bad, we're clumped up again. In brood war however, they wouldn't clump up, unless you want them too. I guess this also has to do with the faster game pace, ridiculous aoe/firepower of collussus and with the fact that you can select your entire army in one control group. But I blame the lack of collision size/clumping up a lot more. And also the gliding physics (units being able to push others around) removes the ability to precisely control your army. And the lack of moving shot for mutalisks and other air units is so goddamn hateable. (also ground units). /rant edit: also if the speed of the fights get reduced and clumping up gets reduced (power of aoe), the better player with better micro is more likely to win because the longer a fight goes on, the more good decisions the more experienced player can make. | ||
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
On June 17 2012 02:40 Azriel wrote: Pretty sure they took out the lurker because it ripped the tester's Terran balls to shreds. And thus its replacement the swarm host gets no AOE in order to remain balanced. This game would be more interesting with automatic formation spreading or something similar. If one of the things that tells great BW players apart from good is stacking, then in SC2 is the splitting the army manually. | ||
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