Heart of the Swarm Unit Stats - Page 44

On July 10 2012 01:55 Sakagami wrote:
Am i the only one that's significantly bothered by the fact that the battle hellion essentially has the same stats as the stalker. Also the fact that the war hound costs 25 more gas than the stalker and is essentially better in EVERY way except it can't hit air????

On July 10 2012 01:55 Sakagami wrote:
Am i the only one that's significantly bothered by the fact that the battle hellion essentially has the same stats as the stalker. Also the fact that the war hound costs 25 more gas than the stalker and is essentially better in EVERY way except it can't hit air????

On July 10 2012 01:58 iky43210 wrote:


almost everything does more dps and is more cost-effective health wise than stalkers, doesn't prevent them from being very versatile and good in all matchups

On July 10 2012 02:03 Sakagami wrote:


I definitely wouldn't say that they are very versatile and good in all match ups. Considering in most match ups you try to get away with making as few stalkers as possible unless you're blink all inning.

If we had a a unit that was half decent and could hit air (not phoenix because they aren't really massable) i doubt anyone would use the stalker anymore.

On July 10 2012 01:49 iky43210 wrote:
I hope they buff some late game units for terran, because they addressed nothing against late game broodlord/infestor army.

And "don't let them reach that phase" is not a real solid argument

On June 20 2012 12:39 Dingobloo wrote:
Interesting tidbit from david kim's interview with RTSGuru:



Moving the overlords drop creep ability from the lair to the evo chamber seems interesting on paper, hopefully spine all-ins vs forge fast expands for example don't become a bit ridiculous.

On July 10 2012 02:07 iky43210 wrote:

pretty sure PvZ is still getting a huge ball of stalkers with a few colossus and sentries added in, and PvT people still invest a heavy portion of their supplies in them, not even counting in the timing where mass nothing but stalkers is still very viable as long as you have a few zealots or immortals for bust

Quite a ridiculous statement to make, people don't make stalkers to just hit air (well, they're still very good against air), stalkers is incredibly good in a protoss army as long as you can micro and have zealots/forcefields for tanking

On July 10 2012 02:12 Bagi wrote:

Mines seem like an excellent counter to it. Attack with your army and flank with a bunch of mines, the BLs are either forced to try to flee, clumsily focus fire the mines or spread out, either way giving your army enough time to DPS them down.

I wouldn't be surprised if they heavily adjusted ghosts and ravens too. Ghosts seem like a really poorly designed unit in their current form, they just counter casters and do nothing else. Ravens just suck.

On July 10 2012 02:14 Sakagami wrote:


1) Theres a reason why PvZ your base army is stalkers. Zealots can't hit air (brood lords) and they also get raped by fungals because they're melee. WE DON'T HAVE A CHOICE.

2) PvT you get stalkers to kill vikings and medivacs essentially while your entire base is zealots. Furthermore you bust with basically all stalkers because you HAVE to forcefield bunkers which make zealots near useless depending on the scv placement.

3) Yeah stalkers are good against air, which is why they get raped by mutalisks a unit that's supposed to be bad in direct engagements.

On July 10 2012 02:21 iky43210 wrote:


and yet Protoss as a race is still doing fairly well. stalkers must be a bad unit and should be buffed so protoss deathballs can become stronger than ever. There are even multiple timings where you make nothing but stalkers, you can't seriously think its a bad unit.

the whole "im worried cause new units seem to be stronger or equal than stalkers" is total crap consider almost everything is already better than stalkers when looking at the stats. Yet protoss lives on with having 70% of the army in stalker values (early to mid)

If stalkers are as bad as you suggested, then how are protoss early and mid game pushes so strong when their army is dominantly heavy in stalkers? or even late game? army synergy counts alot more than just the units themselves. A few zealots in a stalker ball or sentries in early game drastically improve their effectiveness and colossus/chargelot/templars for late

In PvT main reason you make stalkers is not only for air, but also actually being able to hit marauder and marines while your zealot is getting kited. Unless you plan to sit at base with sentries, you won't be able to push out any mid game pressure without stalkers. Most early midgame protoss push have a huge stalker force with 2-3 sentries and 3 zealots at the front.

p.s stalkers don't get raped by mutalisks.

On July 10 2012 02:21 iky43210 wrote:


and yet Protoss as a race is still doing fairly well. stalkers must be a bad unit and should be buffed so protoss deathballs can become stronger than ever. There are even multiple timings where you make nothing but stalkers, you can't seriously think its a bad unit.

the whole "im worried cause new units seem to be stronger or equal than stalkers" is total crap consider almost everything is already better than stalkers when looking at the stats. Yet protoss lives on with having 70% of the army in stalker values (early to mid)

If stalkers are as bad as you suggested, then how are protoss early and mid game pushes so strong when their army is dominantly heavy in stalkers? or even late game? army synergy counts alot more than just the units themselves. A few zealots in a stalker ball or sentries in early game drastically improve their effectiveness and colossus/chargelot/templars for late

In PvT main reason you make stalkers is not only for air, but also actually being able to hit marauder and marines while your zealot is getting kited. Unless you plan to sit at base with sentries, you won't be able to push out any mid game pressure without stalkers. Most early midgame protoss push have a huge stalker force with 2-3 sentries and 3 zealots at the front.

p.s stalkers don't get raped by mutalisks.

On July 10 2012 02:21 iky43210 wrote:


and yet Protoss as a race is still doing fairly well. stalkers must be a bad unit and should be buffed so protoss deathballs can become stronger than ever. There are even multiple timings where you make nothing but stalkers, you can't seriously think its a bad unit.

the whole "im worried cause new units seem to be stronger or equal than stalkers" is total crap consider almost everything is already better than stalkers when looking at the stats. Yet protoss lives on with having 70% of the army in stalker values (early to mid)

If stalkers are as bad as you suggested, then how are protoss early and mid game pushes so strong when their army is dominantly heavy in stalkers? or even late game? army synergy counts alot more than just the units themselves. A few zealots in a stalker ball or sentries in early game drastically improve their effectiveness and colossus/chargelot/templars for late

In PvT main reason you make stalkers is not only for air, but also actually being able to hit marauder and marines while your zealot is getting kited. Unless you plan to sit at base with sentries, you won't be able to push out any mid game pressure without stalkers. Most early midgame protoss push have a huge stalker force with 2-3 sentries and 3 zealots at the front.

p.s stalkers don't get raped by mutalisks.

On July 10 2012 02:21 iky43210 wrote:


and yet Protoss as a race is still doing fairly well. stalkers must be a bad unit and should be buffed so protoss deathballs can become stronger than ever. There are even multiple timings where you make nothing but stalkers, you can't seriously think its a bad unit.

the whole "im worried cause new units seem to be stronger or equal than stalkers" is total crap consider almost everything is already better than stalkers when looking at the stats. Yet protoss lives on with having 70% of the army in stalker values (early to mid)

If stalkers are as bad as you suggested, then how are protoss early and mid game pushes so strong when their army is dominantly heavy in stalkers? or even late game? army synergy counts alot more than just the units themselves. A few zealots in a stalker ball or sentries in early game drastically improve their effectiveness and colossus/chargelot/templars for late

In PvT main reason you make stalkers is not only for air, but also actually being able to hit marauder and marines while your zealot is getting kited. Unless you plan to sit at base with sentries, you won't be able to push out any mid game pressure without stalkers. Most early midgame protoss push have a huge stalker force with 2-3 sentries and 3 zealots at the front.

p.s stalkers don't get raped by mutalisks.

On July 10 2012 02:13 Probe1 wrote:

I'll see your cannon rush and raise you overlord rush!

On July 10 2012 02:35 Plansix wrote:


Stalkers can get messed up my mutas, since they both do around the same damage to eachother, with a muta doing 9 damage and a stalker doing 10. Sakagami is not make the correct argument as to why they get messed up though. The reason is that the protoss use them to protect serveral parts of their base against mutas, which travel in a large ball. This means that the mutas rarely(if used well) fight equal numbers of stalkers. The mutas are almost always being directly controled as well, which means they will like get to focus down a stalker or two before the protoss player can get his units to focus fire. I don't think stalkers are bad, but using them against mutas is one of the harsher lessons you need to learn when playing protoss and leads to a lot of dumb losses.

I think a lot of protoss feel the way about stalkers as zerg players feel about zerglings. Both seem amazing if your not using them and very powerful when used correctly. However, when you are using them, all of their flaws quickly become apparent and you become acutely aware of all the horrible ways these units could die. Personally, that is how I judge if a use is close to balanced. If the person using it thinks it is a terrible unit they are forced to build, but his opponent thinks the unit is amazing to the point of being to good.

On July 10 2012 02:30 Sakagami wrote:


LOL i'm not even sure if there is a point in me addressing every single useless point you made since i can essentially answer all of them with the same response.

It doesn't matter if it's a stalker or not, the unit is irrelevant the reason why protoss survives early-mid game is because of sentries and forcefields. Not because we have a million stalkers it's because the near bulk of our army is ranged and we can section it off so that our army is significantly stronger than the sectioned off army making fights very cost efficient. Again it's not the huge ball of stalkers doing the work trust me, any ranged unit will work in its place.

On July 10 2012 02:36 Jermstuddog wrote:


Wow... This is actually pretty huge... I can already theorycraft denying a natural nexus off a FFE until at least your first stalker comes out.

I like this ^_^