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On June 09 2012 08:00 cheative wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 07:48 maartendq wrote:
I somehow predict TvP to be heavily in favour of Terran. Not picking on whether it's going to be which side favoured, Terran also gets cripped by entomb the most since its static defence is air-only while protoss and zerg both can cover ground. It's just going to be with 4 marines on every mining base stationed. Neither zerg nor terran gained any harass units (they gained the battle type). It's still beta and a lot can change.
Like Khaldor said, you can load those widow mines in a medvac and drop them. Thats a new form of harass. Plus, they buffed reapers.
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On June 09 2012 07:59 larse wrote:
If they replaced thor with warhound that is now without anti-air attack, how is terran mech going to do with all the air units? Build marines and vikings?
Nobody said the thor was taken out. Blizzards last update stated they have the thor back to normal but were thinking of adding the widow mine upgrade to it. Sounds like they just separated the mine as its own thing and kept the thor the same.
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Every time I see these kind of updates they leads me to believe that we'll see more back and forth games thanks to the balance shifting units.
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On June 09 2012 07:59 Yorbon wrote:
Funny how some people think something is viable because they saw it in a match which was ment to show the new things in hots. No one knows how they play out in normal games, so please, shut up about viability.
Funny how someone thinks you can't tell if a unit will be good simply by seeing it in action in a show match. IF these units were left alone it is still pretty damn easy to theory craft how things will work out initially. These units wont be left alone though so if you make that argument then that is fair enough.
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On June 09 2012 08:01 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 07:58 SolidMoose wrote:On June 09 2012 07:41 -Kaiser- wrote:On June 09 2012 07:32 RyuChus wrote:On June 09 2012 07:20 Tippecanoe wrote:
If blizzard wanted to stay away from bw style mech from bw into sc2 so they added things like the immortal, chargelots, and blink stalkers. Now they wan't mech back in, but the siege tank won't be the backbone and there is no mech aa besides the thor which sucks vs air which is why they made the warhound in the first place. What are they trying to accomplish? I agree.. It looks really bad for Terran. The only thing for AA is marines, Thors, and vikings. They're pushing Terran towards Mech, but if my Warhounds don't have AA then I have to build Thors who's AA sucks. If I want a good "deathball" I have to get so many different types of units. Hellions, Warhounds, Siegetanks, Thors, and Vikings. My Siegetanks also get destroyed by Vipers, Marines are gonna be destroyed by Ultralisk Burrow Charge. Seems kind of dumb. I'd like to see how things are going to work out though, it'll be interesting. Marines are the best G2A unit and Vikings are the best A2A unit (Corruptors need infestors)...I don't know what else you want. Corruptors actually beat vikings, they are the best Air to air unit in the game. Vikings still have the range advantage. I don't think it would be very fair if vikings had such a huge range and still beat corruptors in a straight up fight.
i dont care much for tvz vikings, i think its fair. the problem im now seeing are these 22 range super high damage air units that outstrip the vikings range by 9 (thats a whole collosus firing range).
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On June 09 2012 07:48 maartendq wrote:
So in terms of TvP:
-Zealots get owned hard by battle hellions
-Stalkers now have two units that obliterate them instead of one (say hello to the hellhound!)
-Immortals still die hard to marines
-Battle hellions and hellhounds probably won't die to Psi Storm or Colossi as quickly as marines do.
(-Oracles will be a pain in the ass until you get a viking out)
-vikings will still rule the skies uncontested
I somehow predict TvP to be heavily in favour of Terran.
You know nothing, maartendq.
Zealots were always bad vs Hellions. But in TvP Mech the friendly splasha nd the kiting made Zealots more than dangerous. Now its "ok"
Stalkers always get obliterated by tanks, marauders and now the warhound. When do you build Stalers? When you need Antiair or allin. If the toss goes for Stalkers in TvP versus mech he should always loose the fight.
Immortals arent supposed to be powerful against every unit. They are siegebreaker/tanks and cause terrible terrible damage vs mechanic units.
Next thing is completly ridiculous. "OMG a unit doesnt die instant to storm. I hate it!" believe me, Storm still is a beast. same for colossi
oracles are faster then vikings and meching terrans will always build turrets.
Vikings still die to stalkers. And to Storm. And they will have a big problem with 22 range Tempest that sits above the protoss deathball
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Weird how Day9 said "pretty standard natural" when it wasn't standard at all with the back door not using rocks. Personally I like that and dislike how most maps strongly encourage taking a fast expansion.
Biggest problem I have is with the widow mines.
1. Biggest issue I have with them is kinda silly. Widow mines are completely unrealistic — why wait 10 seconds for something to explode? That's only something that would exist in a fantasy magic setting like warcraft maybe. Land mines hitting air is also pretty silly but i don't have as big of beef with that.
2. Seeker missiles already do the same thing— they should be brought down in tech level or buffed or something
3. It's kinda stupid to add an ability that will be pretty terrible/useless at the higher levels, and even not that useful at most low levels (? I guess one will ave to see)
Aside from that I think battle hellion is kinda pointless, or at least bland. I think it would be better to have vultures or reapers replace the hellion and firebats to replace battle hellion (and/or hellion), if anything at all. Heck, even a tank with flamethrowers (modified siege tank) could work if firebat would make for too much biological units.
The whole notion of saying that swarm hosts making free units is annoying to me. They have timed life and they only spawn at a certain rate — same with forcefields, auto-turrets, hallucinations, infested terrans, and other things. Certainly locusts are better, but not entirely different.
I'm not a big fan of swarm hosts either since they don't take much micro, but considering that they still take some (managing the locusts, burrowing/unburrowing), and most of all are a unique/original unit, I don't have much issue with them.
tempests seem kinda non-SC2 and more Supreme-commander/command-and-conquor/age-of-empires-y but not by much. I guess theyr'e not a big deal except for another simple a-move unit that protoss is already stuffed-full with.
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So Terran is absolutely fucked. In TvZ our units will get fungled then blinded then hit with free locusts and then raped by charging ultras. Also Ravens will instantly get abducted.
Protoss has so many ridiculous abilities in HoTS... Early mass recall, 22 range units that will destroy vikings, oracles to stop our mining and make armies invisible. The spider mines seem retardedly easy to avoid, even if you don't have detection they won't do jack shit. They will attach to enemies and then they just shift click them out of their army and keep going.
But hey we get a hellion with 40 more HP and a smaller thor with no air attack............
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On June 09 2012 08:03 Bashion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 08:00 cheative wrote:On June 09 2012 07:48 maartendq wrote:
I somehow predict TvP to be heavily in favour of Terran. Not picking on whether it's going to be which side favoured, Terran also gets cripped by entomb the most since its static defence is air-only while protoss and zerg both can cover ground. It's just going to be with 4 marines on every mining base stationed. Neither zerg nor terran gained any harass units (they gained the battle type). It's still beta and a lot can change. Like Khaldor said, you can load those widow mines in a medvac and drop them. Thats a new form of harass. Plus, they buffed reapers.
eww... that sounds.. depressing... terrans get droppable banelings?  I realize it wont affect the pro's games too much but if there is no warning when they attach then prepare for my probes to be decimated a fair few times
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On June 09 2012 07:58 Heavenlee wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 07:54 CptCutter wrote:On June 09 2012 07:06 glzElectromaster wrote:
This looks like Broodwar 0.8 with a graphics buff. I didn't think mass hydras would be viable once again.
I'm just having a major headache thinking what terran can do against other races late game. Sure, warhounds would be effective against the new mech tier three units (and the uberbuffed ultralisk), and with battle hellions would be able to tank for them. But then what can counter air? Vikings would be viable i guess but would be terrible against corruptors, and wouldn't have that range advantage against tempest (although I do think that 22 range is never going to make it). Seeing how everyone is saying that siege tanks would be useless, the battle hellions would have to be pretty OP to keep balance (viper/ling/bane sounds quite scary mid game as terran).
And Blizzard, please take away the base worker count and war hound autocast. Those just make the game wayyy too simple, and just reduce the skill needed to play. I hope you realize that a lot of people playing SC2 enjoy not only the epicness in gameplay but also the mechanical and strategic skill involved. as far as i know, non of the zerg units are mechanical. so the missile launcher thing on warhounds will be completely useless against zerg. but its not zerg that im as worried about as terran, its the oracle. terran will have to leave units behind at EVERY mineral base, and im not talking 3-4 supply, to take down those 75 health shields fast enough, probably around 3-4 marauders will be needed per base. TT i think ima just race-switch to protoss already. And what does a drop do? It also completely disrupts mining at that base until some army gets there, while actually killing workers. So imba.
except drop ships arent the fastest units in the game, arent done within half a second, dont have guaranteed damage, and cost the dropship+ the units in supply and mins/gas. so unless a oracle is about 10 supply and 500/100 or so it seems extremely powerful.
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On June 09 2012 08:05 Solo Terran wrote:
So Terran is absolutely fucked. In TvZ our units will get fungled then blinded then hit with free locusts and then raped by charging ultras. Also Ravens will instantly get abducted.
Protoss has so many ridiculous abilities in HoTS... Early mass recall, 22 range units that will destroy vikings, oracles to stop our mining and make armies invisible. The spider mines seem retardedly easy to avoid, even if you don't have detection they won't do jack shit. They will attach to enemies and then they just shift click them out of their army and keep going.
But hey we get a hellion with 40 more HP and a smaller thor with no air attack............
omg every race but mine has overpowered stuff.
On June 09 2012 08:07 mustache wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 07:58 Heavenlee wrote:On June 09 2012 07:54 CptCutter wrote:On June 09 2012 07:06 glzElectromaster wrote:
This looks like Broodwar 0.8 with a graphics buff. I didn't think mass hydras would be viable once again.
I'm just having a major headache thinking what terran can do against other races late game. Sure, warhounds would be effective against the new mech tier three units (and the uberbuffed ultralisk), and with battle hellions would be able to tank for them. But then what can counter air? Vikings would be viable i guess but would be terrible against corruptors, and wouldn't have that range advantage against tempest (although I do think that 22 range is never going to make it). Seeing how everyone is saying that siege tanks would be useless, the battle hellions would have to be pretty OP to keep balance (viper/ling/bane sounds quite scary mid game as terran).
And Blizzard, please take away the base worker count and war hound autocast. Those just make the game wayyy too simple, and just reduce the skill needed to play. I hope you realize that a lot of people playing SC2 enjoy not only the epicness in gameplay but also the mechanical and strategic skill involved. as far as i know, non of the zerg units are mechanical. so the missile launcher thing on warhounds will be completely useless against zerg. but its not zerg that im as worried about as terran, its the oracle. terran will have to leave units behind at EVERY mineral base, and im not talking 3-4 supply, to take down those 75 health shields fast enough, probably around 3-4 marauders will be needed per base. TT i think ima just race-switch to protoss already. And what does a drop do? It also completely disrupts mining at that base until some army gets there, while actually killing workers. So imba. except drop ships arent the fastest units in the game, arent done within half a second, dont have guaranteed damage, and cost the dropship+ the units in supply and mins/gas. so unless a oracle is about 10 supply and 500/100 or so it seems extremely powerful.
The speed is completely irrelevant. Yes, there is guaranteed damage unless there are enough units there to fend it off, in which case that would be enough supply to very quickly destroy the entomb. The oracle also requires a stargate, which you don't want to build against terran, and the cost of the oracle in the first place. You are delusional.
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Lol, I bet zergs gonna get a upgrade to hatchery that can make it attack or have special abilities, in LoTV.
22 range Tempest, probably gonna get nerfed. So much more new stuff, HoTS sounds good definitely getting it.
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On June 09 2012 08:07 Heavenlee wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 08:05 Solo Terran wrote:
So Terran is absolutely fucked. In TvZ our units will get fungled then blinded then hit with free locusts and then raped by charging ultras. Also Ravens will instantly get abducted.
Protoss has so many ridiculous abilities in HoTS... Early mass recall, 22 range units that will destroy vikings, oracles to stop our mining and make armies invisible. The spider mines seem retardedly easy to avoid, even if you don't have detection they won't do jack shit. They will attach to enemies and then they just shift click them out of their army and keep going.
But hey we get a hellion with 40 more HP and a smaller thor with no air attack............
omg every race but mine has overpowered stuff.
What? Look at the list of shit Protoss and Zerg is getting and then look at the 2 things Terran is getting and tell me that Terran didn't get shafted in HoTS.
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On June 09 2012 08:06 mrtomjones wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 08:03 Bashion wrote:On June 09 2012 08:00 cheative wrote:On June 09 2012 07:48 maartendq wrote:
I somehow predict TvP to be heavily in favour of Terran. Not picking on whether it's going to be which side favoured, Terran also gets cripped by entomb the most since its static defence is air-only while protoss and zerg both can cover ground. It's just going to be with 4 marines on every mining base stationed. Neither zerg nor terran gained any harass units (they gained the battle type). It's still beta and a lot can change. Like Khaldor said, you can load those widow mines in a medvac and drop them. Thats a new form of harass. Plus, they buffed reapers. eww... that sounds.. depressing... terrans get droppable banelings? I realize it wont affect the pro's games too much but if there is no warning when they attach then prepare for my probes to be decimated a fair few times
Well there's no warning for the entomb spell either. Maybe the game will turn into a battle of harassing mineral lines.
I also don't see how bio will be viable anymore in TvZ with cloud + fungal. Which means abduct + ultras will be godlike.
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Okay this is amazing. Keeping the mothership, 22 range on tempest (I guess it's needed to snipe swarm hosts and prevent from being instagrabbed all the time), a great way to introduce early recall without it being too strong, recharging sentries, seriously this is like a dream come true!!!!
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On June 09 2012 08:09 Solo Terran wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 08:07 Heavenlee wrote:On June 09 2012 08:05 Solo Terran wrote:
So Terran is absolutely fucked. In TvZ our units will get fungled then blinded then hit with free locusts and then raped by charging ultras. Also Ravens will instantly get abducted.
Protoss has so many ridiculous abilities in HoTS... Early mass recall, 22 range units that will destroy vikings, oracles to stop our mining and make armies invisible. The spider mines seem retardedly easy to avoid, even if you don't have detection they won't do jack shit. They will attach to enemies and then they just shift click them out of their army and keep going.
But hey we get a hellion with 40 more HP and a smaller thor with no air attack............
omg every race but mine has overpowered stuff. What? Look at the list of shit Protoss and Zerg is getting and then look at the 2 things Terran is getting and tell me that Terran didn't get shafted in HoTS.
They didn't get shafted. It opened up the possibility of mech in the matchup, which also makes many other parts of the terran arsenal relevant in a way they weren't in WoL. Ravens may have their place, battlecruisers will definitely have a place, if turtling to a deathball a ton of the upgrades from the engineering bay will have their place. So no, terran wasn't shafted, because terran already had a ton of stuff they weren't using in WoL because they weren't good in the metagame, but should work nicely in HotS.
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TT did you guys notice they made worker counting easier? Says "0/24" on the Hatchery. Did anyone discuss this? :p
EDIT: also, I hate Swarm Host idea.. it's just like ground broodlords, will add even more mindless blockers to the battle to prevent movement like broodlings, fungal and changelings >_<
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Hey guys, the oracle costs 150/200 and is 3 food. Calm down everybody
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wow I'm actually pumped.
they did a great job
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EPT
