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usethis2
2164 Posts
On June 12 2012 05:56 SmileZerg wrote: Early game is identical for both... wasn't that the point? I said the rationale Blizzard gave when they brought Vipers in for Zerg is for them to be able to break fortified positions before obtaining hive tech. But now they're pushed to Hive along with the speed Hydra also in Hive. Do you understand why that has to be the case? I do. And it's stupid. | ||
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canikizu
4860 Posts
On June 12 2012 06:01 MCDayC wrote: Almost none of this is true. Units can't draw more than one mine, and there is no friendly fire. The killing your own unit to defuse the mine is true, but I find that kinda cool. Of course units can't draw more than one mine, that's why I said a bunch. Widow mine is factory unit - no tech lab required (can reactor it). Can move them around the map. Dustin expects that most pros will never get hit by widow mine splash. Experimenting with friendly splash. Still testing - if it's air, the splash only hits air, if its ground only ground. Range of vipers is 9 - turrets are 7. That's why I said experiment. | ||
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usethis2
2164 Posts
On June 12 2012 05:36 kranten wrote: So did they release a TvP battle report? There won't be one until there is something legitimate other than MMM+Ghosts/Vikings. Warhound is a factory-made marauder and it's embarassing. | ||
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GinDo
3327 Posts
On June 12 2012 06:09 SarcasmMonster wrote: If Blizzard really wanted to do what's right for the game, they should bite the bullet and redesign the really hated stuff in WOL before HOTS is final. Stuff like Force fields, Fungals, and Concussive Shell. It would suck from a balance standpoint for a while because it would really change the fundamentals of the matchups, but it would be the right move in the long run. Doubt they have the cojones to do the right thing though. Unfortunately FF is very necessary. The whole game has been balanced around keeping that ability. With "Dark Swarm" and Ultra Charge(which I think is too strong, should be a speed upgrade instead), I think that FG can be changed to slow. IMO. Concussive should be removed. | ||
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KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
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MCDayC
United Kingdom14464 Posts
On June 12 2012 06:16 canikizu wrote: Of course units can't draw more than one mine, that's why I said a bunch. That's why I said experiment. Oops, sorry, I was wrong about the multiple mines on one unit thing, but: right now the mine is still in experiment, it can friendly-fire is technically not true, it can't. Either way, with 200 damage it would be crazy volatile if it could friendly fire. | ||
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On June 12 2012 06:13 usethis2 wrote: I said the rationale Blizzard gave when they brought Vipers in for Zerg is for them to be able to break fortified positions before obtaining hive tech. But now they're pushed to Hive along with the speed Hydra also in Hive. Do you understand why that has to be the case? I do. And it's stupid. Blizzard's rationale for creating a unit doesn't really mean anything. The Medivac was originally created so you could have a Medic that could keep up with a Reaper, but obviously Blizzard strayed away from giving the two units any real synergy. | ||
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SarcasmMonster
3136 Posts
On June 12 2012 06:20 GinDo wrote: Unfortunately FF is very necessary. The whole game has been balanced around keeping that ability. With "Dark Swarm" and Ultra Charge(which I think is too strong, should be a speed upgrade instead), I think that FG can be changed to slow. IMO. Concussive should be removed. FF be replaced with another defensive spell that isn't so annoying and sometimes abusive. Especially since the Mothership Core can transform into a 13-range cannon that does 65dmg and attacks faster than Stalkers. Replace FF I say, and then rebalance accordingly. | ||
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Scufo
United States136 Posts
Vipers abduct Tanks. Locusts are light, making them great at absorbing tank fire. Ultra charge kills tanks. Fast hydras are better vs. tanks Warhounds eat tanks alive 22 range Tempests laugh at Tanks and their silly seige up. But, if hydras become more important in TvZ Tanks could retain their usefulness against them. Against P they still probably won't be useful since immortals and charge zealots still laugh at them. | ||
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
On June 12 2012 06:31 Scufo wrote: I'm sad for Tanks. Looks like they're gonna be pushed even further out of standard play in HoTS. Let's run it down... Vipers abduct Tanks. Locusts are light, making them great at absorbing tank fire. Ultra charge kills tanks. Fast hydras are better vs. tanks Warhounds eat tanks alive 22 range Tempests laugh at Tanks and their silly seige up. But, if hydras become more important in TvZ Tanks could retain their usefulness against them. Against P they still probably won't be useful since immortals and charge zealots still laugh at them. The matchups could change drastically and Mech be only viable on TvP lol :D | ||
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Umpteen
United Kingdom1570 Posts
I think the widow mine is... well, I think it might prove a little strong. I mean, for 25 extra minerals and 0.5 extra supply you get a range 5 burrowed baneling that does between six and ten times the damage, hits air, targets cloaked units and has the threat priority of a move-command worker. Hmm. I think the Tempest is just super, super dull. Range 22? You could hit someone in a different game with that. Seriously; I'd use them to kill Asmodan. But that's not the point: even if being able to shell my oracle-revealed base from atop unreachable high ground somewhere on the NA servers turns out to be balanced, it's just a boring floaty tank that doesn't need to seige. Yuk. Viper: Abduct is cool, but I'm sorry: the animation looks like the big foot coming down in the titles of Monty Python's Flying Circus. Blinding cloud seems a bit useless, but I suppose it lets you go vipers rather than infestors and retain some of the same utility. Love the way they recharge (proxy hatch batteries!) The Oracle is just going to fuck everyone in the lower leagues, and I don't mean in a gentle with-their-consent way. He shift-queues a single ability, and I get to spend the next forty seconds trying to get my drones mining again. At least the widow mines will just kill the drones so I don't have to bother. All in all, the beta is shaping up to be hilarious. I can't wait  | ||
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SmileZerg
United States543 Posts
On June 12 2012 06:09 SarcasmMonster wrote: If Blizzard really wanted to do what's right for the game, they should bite the bullet and redesign the really hated stuff in WOL before HOTS is final. Stuff like Force fields, Fungals, and Concussive Shell. It would suck from a balance standpoint for a while because it would really change the fundamentals of the matchups, but it would be the right move in the long run. Doubt they have the cojones to do the right thing though. I agree. I actually think Fungal and CShell are pretty easy fixes - the hard one is Force Field, it would require a pretty drastic restructuring of the Protoss. | ||
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RoyGBiv_13
United States1275 Posts
On June 12 2012 06:31 Scufo wrote: I'm sad for Tanks. Looks like they're gonna be pushed even further out of standard play in HoTS. Let's run it down... Vipers abduct Tanks. Locusts are light, making them great at absorbing tank fire. Ultra charge kills tanks. Fast hydras are better vs. tanks Warhounds eat tanks alive 22 range Tempests laugh at Tanks and their silly seige up. But, if hydras become more important in TvZ Tanks could retain their usefulness against them. Against P they still probably won't be useful since immortals and charge zealots still laugh at them. Calling it now, tempests to be made less often than carriers. | ||
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Decendos
Germany1341 Posts
or just give the FF a (high) hp instead of being indesctructible. P would still be save early game but couldnt abuse FF in midgame that hard. | ||
Falling
Canada11607 Posts
On June 12 2012 06:20 GinDo wrote: Unfortunately FF is very necessary. The whole game has been balanced around keeping that ability. With "Dark Swarm" and Ultra Charge(which I think is too strong, should be a speed upgrade instead), I think that FG can be changed to slow. IMO. Concussive should be removed. I think you could rebalance it. Especially if you also took out warpgate or made it distance based/ made gateways faster. Defender's advantage would be back so gateway units could be buffed like crazy. Of course that would require better defence from T and Z to prevent crazy proxy gates. So then dial up Tanks again to destroy the masses and dial up whatever defensive things Zerg is supposed to have. And I agree with concussive shells. It's a passive ability that prevents micro (like pre-blink stalkers) and therefore not good. | ||
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Toadvine
Poland2234 Posts
On June 12 2012 06:25 SarcasmMonster wrote: FF be replaced with another defensive spell that isn't so annoying and sometimes abusive. Especially since the Mothership Core can transform into a 13-range cannon that does 65dmg and attacks faster than Stalkers. Replace FF I say, and then rebalance accordingly. You'd also need to remove Warpgates and redesign Zealots and Stalkers. FF isn't just a defensive spell, it is literally impossible for Protoss to engage Zerg before like ~160 supply without being able to FF. Not to mention all sorts of earlygame woes involving Baneling busts and roach/ling all-ins. FF affects Protoss play on a much deeper level than you give it credit for. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 12 2012 06:21 KimJongChill wrote: Anyone else dislike the swarm host? It feels like if you have enough firepower, then it will be absolutely useless. I can only see it being useful in situations where a t/p is turtling and being greedy early on, and even then it would probably lose effectiveness pretty fast. In general, the new units seem like too much of a deviation from the current standard play, and I feel like infestor into rushing broodlords would probably always be a better response than trying to do cute stuff with swarm host/viper. You could say the same thing about the brood lord or any other unit in the game. If you have enough fire power and anti air, broodlords and the broodlings should not be a problem. The whole point of the unit is to make something happen or force the terran to respond. If the terran is attempting to do a slow push onto creep and suddenly encounters some locus, he has to stop, kill them and continue forward. But when they continue, they know that the next wave of locus could be supported by zergling, banelings or other units. Think of them as zerglings that never cost larva, require way more planing and multitasking. | ||
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GinDo
3327 Posts
On June 12 2012 06:42 Falling wrote: I think you could rebalance it. Especially if you also took out warpgate or made it distance based/ made gateways faster. Defender's advantage would be back so gateway units could be buffed like crazy. Of course that would require better defence from T and Z to prevent crazy proxy gates. So then dial up Tanks again to destroy the masses and dial up whatever defensive things Zerg is supposed to have. And I agree with concussive shells. It's a passive ability that prevents micro (like pre-blink stalkers) and therefore not good. Unfortunately the removal of WG would be the last thing Blizzard would do. | ||
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SmileZerg
United States543 Posts
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Decendos
Germany1341 Posts
the problem is the low warp-in time of 5 seconds. why not just increase the warp-in time to 15-20 seconds? that way P would still have the possibility to reinforce pushes faster than with gateways + still be able to harrass but it wouldnt be that broken in lategame where toss instantly remaxes on 20-25 gates. | ||
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