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Activison is making this game worse by the release. Such a perfect formula with BW just follow it. .
Viper seriously retarded since it takes away excellent positioning a player works tirelessly for with one click. Not to mention it just looks dumb. How does a flying unit jerk a massive collosus or 50 ton tank accross the map? Physics would never work and looks stupid.
Tempest is boring. 6 sec delay is boring and shots come from off screen is dumb. Maybe two screens away with upgrade. You'll just see a blue blob every so often explode.
Oracle is boring too. No risk jsince nothing can kill or catch it early and just a little econ harrass easily thwarted by workers who attack entomed minerals.
Swarm host is another boring unmicroable unit.
Then a big 100 ton ulltra burrowing through earth at high speed? WTF????
Transformer hellions?
Basically I hate everything I saw from a veiwer prospective. Can't commenrt on balanced but I'm sure it will be tweaked to balance it just looked dumb.
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The mine is pretty ridiculous,and anybody that thinks its not is just lying themselves.
I mean..not even close to the BW ones
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I think my only real fear/problem, with the mines is the detection issue. Toss and zerg won't be able to safely push out with a detector leading the way to clear the mines. Granted, the overseer and observers tend to float in the middle of the army, but it needs to get dangerously close to mines before they can be killed and it risks getting mined itself. I wish these behaved a bit more like spider mines. There was a short window between unburrow and detonation that allowed them to be killed before damage was done
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On June 12 2012 04:53 Veldril wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 04:51 Flonomenalz wrote:
Was going to contribute to this thread until I saw people arguing in favor of the widow mine.
A movable spider mine that hits air? That's absolutely ridiculous. I think it's acceptable because it costs gas and supply, while spider mine come from vulture with no supply and gas cost at all.
Yeah, I really think people are over-reacting. You pay 1 supply, factory time, some amount of gas and minerals, and if your opponent plays properly they die without doing any damage at all, or they kill a unit that's much cheaper than them. This is actually exactly the sort of unit that we've been missing: It rewards good play and punishes bad play along a spectrum that ranges from the unit being completely useless to the unit being game-endingly powerful. Units that could be incredibly powerful or very weak depending on the relative skill of the two players were what make BW such a great game, and I'm really happy to see HotS taking SC2 further in that direction, with at least a couple of the units. The Warhound, as has already been pointed out a lot in this thread, seems to be exactly the opposite: It just wanders into a battle and automatically targets mechanical units with a super-attack. That doesn't sound like the sort of thing that separates the men from the boys.
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On June 12 2012 04:12 usethis2 wrote:
Warhound is essentially a factory-version of marauder. Blizzard obviously has no new idea for viable mech T against P. (and honestly I have no creative idea for that, either.)
Personally I would like them to play with the idea of making Tanks 2 food. Being that everything in HOTS kills tanks. Warhound is such a bad unit. And personally I don't like the battle hellion either.
What I would like to seen are Thors to be made smaller, weaker, faster movement, and cheaper. Also remove splash, but keep Air Range. And to be renamed Loki's.  Maybe a new Gundum esq Skin.
Also scrap the Raven. Bring the Sci Vessel with Mech Repair and Irradiate. They can replace EMP with a Stasis Field that only works on Mechanical.
And Vikings replaced with Splash air Unit. To put an end to Viking Wars and make Mutas more viable.
And finally a Faster/Weaker Banshee. Banshees are great units, but they need to be more Micro orientated.
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On June 12 2012 05:05 GinDo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 04:12 usethis2 wrote:
Warhound is essentially a factory-version of marauder. Blizzard obviously has no new idea for viable mech T against P. (and honestly I have no creative idea for that, either.) Personally I would like them to play with the idea of making Tanks 2 food. Being that everything in HOTS kills tanks. Warhound is such a bad unit. And personally I don't like the battle hellion either. What I would like to seen are Thors to be made smaller, weaker, faster movement, and cheaper. Also remove splash, but keep Air Range. And to be renamed Loki's. Maybe a new Gundum esq Skin. Also scrap the Raven. Bring the Sci Vessel with Mech Repair and Irradiate. They can replace EMP with a Stasis Field that only works on Mechanical. And Vikings replaced with Splash air Unit. To put an end to Viking Wars and make Mutas more viable. And finally a Faster/Weaker Banshee. Banshees are great units, but they need to be more Micro orientated.
I disagree with all these proposals except for possibly 2 food Tanks.
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Wasn't the purported usage of Vipers is to break in fortified positions before hive tech? Now they moved Vipers to hive AND give speed to Hydras also in hive. Really, just get rid of spawn larvae if you can't make the balance. The fight against Z will be a fight against time, and Z will cry for their "fragile" early game.
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On June 12 2012 04:58 Broodie wrote:lol will somebody read this. My suggested change to the Oracle.I would like to know thoughts and get some theory crafting involved around this and soon, the widow mine, which is currently being disputed but I'm at work lol
I've long wanted Warp Prism as Stargate tech, but I don't care much the Oracle change.
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On June 12 2012 05:13 usethis2 wrote:
Wasn't the purported usage of Vipers is to break in fortified positions before hive tech? Now they moved Vipers to hive AND give speed to Hydras also in hive. Really, just get rid of spawn larvae if you can't make the balance. The fight against Z will be a fight against time, and Z will cry for their "fragile" early game.
Agreed, Blizzard really wants to make Zerg the turtle into deathball race for some reason. Isn't Zerg suppose to be the swarmy all out aggressive race? I play Terran in SC2 because I'm always forced to be defensive with Zerg.
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On June 12 2012 05:00 ThirdDegree wrote:
I think my only real fear/problem, with the mines is the detection issue. Toss and zerg won't be able to safely push out with a detector leading the way to clear the mines. Granted, the overseer and observers tend to float in the middle of the army, but it needs to get dangerously close to mines before they can be killed and it risks getting mined itself. I wish these behaved a bit more like spider mines. There was a short window between unburrow and detonation that allowed them to be killed before damage was done
Overseers and Observers have detection range 11. Widow Mines are range 4 (I've seen it reported to be 5 but the radius is clearly shown in the TvZ battle report and it looks to be the same size as a guardian shield, which is radius 4).
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I love the viper, save the god-awful animation for abduct. Given the model of the unit with its snake-like nature and mesmerizing wings i think it would look better, and probably be more balanced, if the animation was something like the viper pulls its head and upper body up like a cobra and starts flickering with its bundle of insectwings, creating a weird sound, and basicly hypnotizing the unit to move towards it.
Maybe alittle longer range but the viper has to remain still while casting it, if moved the spell is instantly interupted.
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On June 12 2012 05:08 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 05:05 GinDo wrote:On June 12 2012 04:12 usethis2 wrote:
Warhound is essentially a factory-version of marauder. Blizzard obviously has no new idea for viable mech T against P. (and honestly I have no creative idea for that, either.) Personally I would like them to play with the idea of making Tanks 2 food. Being that everything in HOTS kills tanks. Warhound is such a bad unit. And personally I don't like the battle hellion either. What I would like to seen are Thors to be made smaller, weaker, faster movement, and cheaper. Also remove splash, but keep Air Range. And to be renamed Loki's. Maybe a new Gundum esq Skin. Also scrap the Raven. Bring the Sci Vessel with Mech Repair and Irradiate. They can replace EMP with a Stasis Field that only works on Mechanical. And Vikings replaced with Splash air Unit. To put an end to Viking Wars and make Mutas more viable. And finally a Faster/Weaker Banshee. Banshees are great units, but they need to be more Micro orientated. I disagree with all these proposals except for possibly 2 food Tanks.
The guy's name is SarcasmMonster, and he proposes Terran get an air-to-air splash unit to make Mutas more viable. I'm not sure he's making serious proposals o.O
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On June 12 2012 05:21 AmericanUmlaut wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 05:08 SarcasmMonster wrote:On June 12 2012 05:05 GinDo wrote:On June 12 2012 04:12 usethis2 wrote:
Warhound is essentially a factory-version of marauder. Blizzard obviously has no new idea for viable mech T against P. (and honestly I have no creative idea for that, either.) Personally I would like them to play with the idea of making Tanks 2 food. Being that everything in HOTS kills tanks. Warhound is such a bad unit. And personally I don't like the battle hellion either. What I would like to seen are Thors to be made smaller, weaker, faster movement, and cheaper. Also remove splash, but keep Air Range. And to be renamed Loki's. Maybe a new Gundum esq Skin. Also scrap the Raven. Bring the Sci Vessel with Mech Repair and Irradiate. They can replace EMP with a Stasis Field that only works on Mechanical. And Vikings replaced with Splash air Unit. To put an end to Viking Wars and make Mutas more viable. And finally a Faster/Weaker Banshee. Banshees are great units, but they need to be more Micro orientated. I disagree with all these proposals except for possibly 2 food Tanks. The guy's name is SarcasmMonster, and he proposes Terran get an air-to-air splash unit to make Mutas more viable. I'm not sure he's making serious proposals o.O
You may wanna double check who you are quoting good sir.
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
On June 12 2012 04:51 Flonomenalz wrote:
Was going to contribute to this thread until I saw people arguing in favor of the widow mine.
A movable spider mine that hits air? That's absolutely ridiculous.
Could you explain that? It's more useful to people than just "absolutely ridiculous"
On June 12 2012 04:55 Sapphire.lux wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 04:43 MCDayC wrote:On June 12 2012 04:29 Sapphire.lux wrote: And yes, Warhound IS a boring unit. That I 100% agree with you on. High five! I haven't seen a single written, thought out defence of the warhound, in fact a lot of the people defending it think that it is still an mobile anti-air replacement for the Thor (an idea that I didn't mind, as long as it kept the aerial splash) but the current form is terrible, and I'd be interested to see why some people thought it was a great addition in the poll thread. I've seen a couple of posters saying it's cool bacause it's strong ( and easy to use). Looks like some people like it for the same reasons others don't. Probably more interested in potential ladder points then fun gameplay and fun pro games. Sounds harsh and elitistic maybe but that's the impression i've got so far.
Well yes, but being strong isn't a defence of a unit. I'm not saying every unit should should require 100 apm and constant babysitting to work, but every unit should be dynamic and interesting in some way, and have at least something to cause micro from the opposition, or benefit from micro and positioning.On June 12 2012 04:55 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 04:43 MCDayC wrote:On June 12 2012 04:29 Sapphire.lux wrote: And yes, Warhound IS a boring unit. That I 100% agree with you on. High five! I haven't seen a single written, thought out defence of the warhound, in fact a lot of the people defending it think that it is still an mobile anti-air replacement for the Thor (an idea that I didn't mind, as long as it kept the aerial splash) but the current form is terrible, and I'd be interested to see why some people thought it was a great addition in the poll thread. Because its a buffed up Marauder lol. A  's worst nightmare  Good thing I'm probably gonna switch to Terran ^_^
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On June 12 2012 05:19 ReadySetFire wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 05:13 usethis2 wrote:
Wasn't the purported usage of Vipers is to break in fortified positions before hive tech? Now they moved Vipers to hive AND give speed to Hydras also in hive. Really, just get rid of spawn larvae if you can't make the balance. The fight against Z will be a fight against time, and Z will cry for their "fragile" early game. Agreed, Blizzard really wants to make Zerg the turtle into deathball race for some reason. Isn't Zerg suppose to be the swarmy all out aggressive race? I play Terran in SC2 because I'm always forced to be defensive with Zerg.
What in the hell are you talking about. Speed hydras, vipers, swarm hosts, ultralisks becoming more viable than brood lords... every change in HotS is making the zerg more aggressive, fast and swarmy. Did you even watch the battle reports? They were attacking all over the map with extreme mobility, hitting multiple bases at once.
Even now, that's how the good zerg pros play. It just runs into a problem in the lategame when we don't have the tools to deliver a killing blow without resorting to BL/infestor crawls.
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On June 12 2012 05:22 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 05:21 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On June 12 2012 05:08 SarcasmMonster wrote:On June 12 2012 05:05 GinDo wrote:On June 12 2012 04:12 usethis2 wrote:
Warhound is essentially a factory-version of marauder. Blizzard obviously has no new idea for viable mech T against P. (and honestly I have no creative idea for that, either.) Personally I would like them to play with the idea of making Tanks 2 food. Being that everything in HOTS kills tanks. Warhound is such a bad unit. And personally I don't like the battle hellion either. What I would like to seen are Thors to be made smaller, weaker, faster movement, and cheaper. Also remove splash, but keep Air Range. And to be renamed Loki's. Maybe a new Gundum esq Skin. Also scrap the Raven. Bring the Sci Vessel with Mech Repair and Irradiate. They can replace EMP with a Stasis Field that only works on Mechanical. And Vikings replaced with Splash air Unit. To put an end to Viking Wars and make Mutas more viable. And finally a Faster/Weaker Banshee. Banshees are great units, but they need to be more Micro orientated. I disagree with all these proposals except for possibly 2 food Tanks. The guy's name is SarcasmMonster, and he proposes Terran get an air-to-air splash unit to make Mutas more viable. I'm not sure he's making serious proposals o.O You may wanna double check who you are quoting good sir.
My apologies! Under the influence of excellent scotch and a really hot bath, I confused who was posting what.
Regardless, the proposal that adding more mobile, splashy anti-air to Terran's arsenal will make Mutas a more viable choice has got to be enough to assume the guy's not serious. Though to be fair, I think that smaller, faster, weaker Thors aren't the worst idea. They're very boring, unmicroable units, and they're a pretty big investment, and they win or lose games (at least in PvT) mostly based on whether or not Protoss scouts that they're on the map soon enough to make their (laughably powerful) counters. Making it possible to produce, for example, half of a Thor at a time, would allow Terran to lean into that tech route a bit more gradually without committing to it totally and opening himself to a ridiculously powerful counter.
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On June 12 2012 04:51 Flonomenalz wrote:
Was going to contribute to this thread until I saw people arguing in favor of the widow mine.
A movable spider mine that hits air? That's absolutely ridiculous.
Posts like this contribute so much to the discussion. "If you disagree with me, you're absolutely ridiculous" with no real reasoning behind it.
The reason terran players are arguing for the widow mine is because its pretty much the only unit that provides us new strategies. The hellion is nice, but its really just a more powerful version of their current form. Doesn't really provide new opportunities at face value. The warhound is, like other have said, a marauder-like unit for mech builds. It provides nice DPS and tanking capabilities against protoss, but it should end up as a support unit for your core tank army. So we have 2 units that make existing mech builds stronger, and one unit that is completely unique.
Are the widow mines overtuned in their currently form? Absolutely, but that goes for pretty much every new unit. They would rather make them too strong now to get people to use them, and then tone them down to the point where they feel balanced. The stats can be changed, but the fundamental concept is sound and very interesting from a gameplay POV. That's why many terrans want to see it go through.
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On June 12 2012 05:25 SmileZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 05:19 ReadySetFire wrote:On June 12 2012 05:13 usethis2 wrote:
Wasn't the purported usage of Vipers is to break in fortified positions before hive tech? Now they moved Vipers to hive AND give speed to Hydras also in hive. Really, just get rid of spawn larvae if you can't make the balance. The fight against Z will be a fight against time, and Z will cry for their "fragile" early game. Agreed, Blizzard really wants to make Zerg the turtle into deathball race for some reason. Isn't Zerg suppose to be the swarmy all out aggressive race? I play Terran in SC2 because I'm always forced to be defensive with Zerg. What in the hell are you talking about. Speed hydras, vipers, swarm hosts, ultralisks becoming more viable than brood lords... every change in HotS is making the zerg more aggressive, fast and swarmy. Did you even watch the battle reports? They were attacking all over the map with extreme mobility, hitting multiple bases at once. Even now, that's how the good zerg pros play. It just runs into a problem in the lategame when we don't have the tools to deliver a killing blow without resorting to BL/infestor crawls.
The point I raised is that Blizzard will never make Zerg interesting in the early game for fear of its macro ability - spawn larvae. That ability single-handedly delays every doors of zerg, which is unfortunate for them. Even in the battle report they admit that there isn't anything much different for zerg in early game.
If you are a zerg player, you should be unhappy about it.
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I agree MCDayC, no one looks able to defend the warhound as an interesting unit. That's because it so blatantly isn't lol.
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EPT
