- After 13 years of history and 34 editions, Tving StarLeague 2012 will be the last BroodWar OSL
- Starting next season, OSL will be a SC2 league
- Both KeSPA players and original SC2 players will be able to participate in this new league EDIT: Let me clarify. Direct quote from the original source:
스타크래프트2로 새롭게 시작할 스타크래프트2 리그는 현재 KeSPA 소속 프로게이머들 뿐만 아니라 GSL과 해외 리그서 뛰고 있는 선수들이 모두 참가해 우열을 겨루게 된다.
It literally means "In this new SC2 league will participate not only KeSPA progamers but players competing in GSL and foreign leagues as well."
- The preliminaries for the first SC2 OSL will start mid-July
I forget whether this was specifically stated at the KeSPA/Blizz/GOM announcement, but the detail that GSL players will be able to participate is certainly new. And awesome. BW players are gonna have a hard time competing in this first season.
I wonder what tournaments current GSL players will prioritize and if GSL will allow Kespa-players participate in GSL. I guess even if they do, Kespa might require them to prioritize OGN league over GSL (or maybe even prohibit them from playing in the GSL)?
Either way, as someone only casually attached to BW these are exciting times.
"Not the end. New beginning." Quite an ironic catch-phrase for this season of OSL.
I was hoping that there was a chance that there could at least be a few more BW leagues, but alas, that is not so.
[11:20] Is OGN, currently doing SC1 and (will do) SC2 concurrently, moving to SC2 for individual leauge?
Mr. Hwang: First of all, a schedule for SC2 League hasn't been finalized, but we are looking into the early July for the first season. OSL in SC1 will start its main tournament in 2 weeks, but if issues of sponsoship and players are solved, then this league may not be the final SC1 league. SC1 has been a big role for 10 years and saying farewell to it isn't bad either, but I cannot guarantee you that this will be the final one.
Although later on in that transcript, they did claim to be doing a full transition of OSL into SC2.
[11:25] Will the Proleague/OSL be SC2 only or SC1 & SC2?
Mr. Lee: Officially speaking, Proleague season 2 will begin on 3rd week of May, and it will be both SC1 and SC2. We are still looking into the details of the format that can satisfy both SC1 and SC2 fans. We will probably announce the details by 2nd week of May. For OSL, the new season will begin on October, and it will be a complete transition to SC2. We are still discussing about the requirement of Proleague players. Since it will be both SC1 and 2, it will be hard to change SC1 players to SC2 players in terms of membership. By October, SC1 will vanish and everything will move to SC2. GSTL players is discussing this matter with GomTV and we will discuss with them as well.
On June 06 2012 09:33 zyzq wrote: this seems like a big slap in the face to Kespa players because there is no way they can compete with the current SC2 players yet.
Agreed. Even though the SC2 shown by the Kespa players might not be very interesting right now I had still hoped that they would let them "evolve" in peace. Making them fight against established SC2 pros almost from the get-go is just harsh.
It wouldn't surprise me if hardly any Kespa player takes a series off a GSL player.
Based on the play we've seen from the KESPA players so far, if they're allowing other SC2 players in, they're gonna have some real trouble competing in the first one.
Guess theres still a lot of time to practice, but damn.
This OSL, is it different from the other Starleague that is currently going on and is mixed right now? What is the difference between this one and that one?
I only request that OGN ends all records with tving and begins anew. If Flash were to win this next SC2 league, I wouldn't ever want to see anyone say he won "4 OSLs" or that he achieved more than 100 wins in OSL. (That is, unless he wins tving ^^)
Hell, it'd be nice if they could change the name too, but well, maybe that's asking for too much.
Harsh, allowing non-KeSPA players in. But I guess the best way to find developing talent in SC2 would be to throw them in the deep end and see which ones can swim.
On June 06 2012 09:33 zyzq wrote: this seems like a big slap in the face to Kespa players because there is no way they can compete with the current SC2 players yet.
Agreed. Even though the SC2 shown by the Kespa players might not be very interesting right now I had still hoped that they would let them "evolve" in peace. Making them fight against established SC2 pros almost from the get-go is just harsh.
It wouldn't surprise me if hardly any Kespa player takes a series off a GSL player.
OGN is smart enough to know that they dont want to put on a major sc2 league with bad play. You cant say you are one the biggest events in the world if you are using people who honestly are not at the level that the best in the world are at. The first SC2 OSL will probably be (just due to the players who will make it) the second or third biggest SC2 event in the world easily.
And so the greatest esports scene and game is officially over.
It was a good run, cut short.....
13 years is cut short?
BW would have persisted for at least a couple more seasons even with the troubles it's been having. Hell, it's possible(probably very unlikely) it could have got through them. But either way, SC2 accelerated the decision to stop broadcasting BW. And even as someone who was drawn into TL by SC2, I think it's a shame as much as I know 'progress' is always inevitable.(Please don't let this start a BW vs SC2, simply giving a brief synopsis and how I feel about it)
I kinda hoped that they still would do something with BW. Perhaps open up a televised league to pros who don't want to play SC2 as well as the Korean amateur scene while the bulk of the esports teams and infrastructure fully switches over to SC2. Heck, I wish we could have more insight on Teamliquid about the Korean amateur BW scene now that the pro scene is switching over to SC2.
On June 06 2012 09:33 zyzq wrote: this seems like a big slap in the face to Kespa players because there is no way they can compete with the current SC2 players yet.
Agreed. Even though the SC2 shown by the Kespa players might not be very interesting right now I had still hoped that they would let them "evolve" in peace. Making them fight against established SC2 pros almost from the get-go is just harsh.
It wouldn't surprise me if hardly any Kespa player takes a series off a GSL player.
OGN is smart enough to know that they dont want to put on a major sc2 league with bad play. You cant say you are one the biggest events in the world if you are using people who honestly are not at the level that the best in the world are at. The first SC2 OSL will probably be (just due to the players who will make it) the second or third biggest SC2 event in the world easily.
You are right. I'm not questioning this from a business standpoint. I just feel bad for the Kespa players who have barely started learning a new game, before being thrown into the lions den of players who has been playing for almost 2 years.
As an SC2 player who got into BW mainly with the mixed-game Proleague, this is kinda sad. I really appreciate the skill it takes to play BW, and I wish the two could co-exist.
That's fucking retarded, but we all knew that stupid crap was coming anyway.
Maybe in 10 years SC2 will be half as good as BW was and watching a game of it won't be boring as fuck.
Also, of course:
Congratulations SC2 fans! Yet another SC2 tournament to follow. How many are there already? Dreamhack, MLG, IPL, IEM, fake SPL and fake OSL, that's at least 6 major tournaments. (edit: to clarify, this is not sarcasm)
I'm fucking mad about this stupid shit, but I sincerely hope that SC2 can become something much better than it is today. Hope that in 3 years I will look back and say that I was overreacting and that SC2 wasn't the shit I thought it was.
On June 06 2012 09:47 fabiano wrote: That's fucking retarded, but we all knew that stupid crap was coming anyway.
Maybe in 10 years SC2 will be half as good as BW was and watching a game of it won't be boring as fuck.
Also, of course:
Congratulations SC2 fans! Yet another SC2 tournament to follow. How many are there already? Dreamhack, MLG, IPL, IEM, fake SPL and fake OSL, that's at least 6 major tournaments.
I'm fucking mad about this stupid shit, but I sincerely hope that SC2 can become something much better than it is today. Hope that in 3 years I will look back and say that I was overreacting and that SC2 wasn't the shit I thought it was.
Eh, there's still HotS and LotV coming out. The expansions might make the game more appealing to more people. I was hoping they wouldn't switch over to SC2 until HotS arrived, myself.
This is the first step to bringing SC2 up to BW's level imho, I believe we're going to see some crazy things from the Kespa players. Not to mention HotS will be very refreshing.
That said, I played BW all my life. I'm sad there won't be a proscene for it anymore, but certainly I'll continue playing just for the nostalgia =)
I was hoping that the next OSL would be the last Brood War. I wanted to see one last shot for Bisu and from an SC2 stand point, letting the Kespa players get more experience with SC2.
But since the players are already spliting their time between the games I suppose it was inevitable.
On June 06 2012 09:47 fabiano wrote: That's fucking retarded, but we all knew that stupid crap was coming anyway.
Maybe in 10 years SC2 will be half as good as BW was and watching a game of it won't be boring as fuck.
Also, of course:
Congratulations SC2 fans! Yet another SC2 tournament to follow. How many are there already? Dreamhack, MLG, IPL, IEM, fake SPL and fake OSL, that's at least 6 major tournaments. (edit: to clarify, this is not sarcasm)
I'm fucking mad about this stupid shit, but I sincerely hope that SC2 can become something much better than it is today. Hope that in 3 years I will look back and say that I was overreacting and that SC2 wasn't the shit I thought it was.
If you don't like watching SC2, then don't watch it.
Yeah, this news came during the OSL tiebreaks - in a very unspectacular manner, I must say. ;_; Expected more from OGN, at least an epic history video 30 minutes long or something. Hopefully we get this by the end of the season.
On June 06 2012 09:37 Keone wrote: FML. I'm not hating on SC2, but BW was the reason I was always on TL, through multiple accounts and several years. Looks like it all ends soon. T_T
BW is not dead though, just not led by Kespa and OGN anymore. There will still be BW events with prize money and there will still be Koreans playing BW. It won't be at quite the same level of skill, but it's still damn exciting game to watch, and the recent Sziky-Pusan showmatch demonstrated the top foreign scene is almost at semi-pro level at least (could most likely go through decently deep in a courage tournament). It's bad news for BW, but not the end of BW completely.
I think the decision to be open to ALL players is a great idea. Watching the low level of play in the SPL is interesting only because we get to see the metagame evolve again (games end after one battle, huge mistakes that end games, everyone things Zerg is UP, etc). While the announcers do their best, I think it's obvious the games haven't been that exciting (especially compared to the new GSTL season). The current GSL players will probably knock out most Kespa players early on, so the later stages of the tournament will be great.
Also, this makes it just that much more unfair that Kespa pros have to practice two games at once for so long even as BW is fading into history.
Anyway, I hope this last BW OSL is great and that they have some amazing ceremony during the finals.
ok guys, I understand you're all bummed about brood war
but look on the bright side, all the production value you know and love will be transplanted into a sc2 league that allows for strong competiton, unlike proleague right now. More qualifiers means more opprotunities to see your favorite players!
We need a salute emoticon, because that's the only suitable thing I can think of. Farewell BW OSL. I'll never forget all the incredible games you showed me.
This was announced on OSL Tiebreakers, TL is late this time
Also why R.I.P.? Does a game die because it has no pro-scene? Do you play games that only have pro-scene?
I personally don't. I will keep playing Brood War and SC2 while I am enjoying SC2 OSL, PL; it's not R.I.P. for me.
When I loved Brood War, there wasn't any Korean scene or any scene in the world, it was year 1999. I didn't love Brood War because of it's pro-scenes...
oh daaamn :/ so sudden! and it's in the middle of SPL season, so quality of games in BW will just drop down so much. Biggest blow to Korea's BW scene yet, but hopefully foreign competitions and amateur BW in korea will still exist..
On June 06 2012 10:02 Archile wrote: ok guys, I understand you're all bummed about brood war
but look on the bright side, all the production value you know and love will be transplanted into a sc2 league that allows for strong competiton, unlike proleague right now. More qualifiers means more opprotunities to see your favorite players!
I'm intrigued. It would be pretty awesome to see current SC2 players in an OSL intro, especially foreign players.
On June 06 2012 10:02 Archile wrote: ok guys, I understand you're all bummed about brood war
but look on the bright side, all the production value you know and love will be transplanted into a sc2 league that allows for strong competiton, unlike proleague right now. More qualifiers means more opprotunities to see your favorite players!
First you let the Foreigners/GSL pros in, grab them up and gain attention, then you put everyone on contracts and lock exclusivity!
Hopefully that's not the case. Anyways, at the very least, it's nice to see that we'll get some SC2 vs. BW players mixing. I don't know which of the BW pros will be ready for it, but hopefully some will be by then.
On June 06 2012 10:04 Testuser wrote: I feel sad for all the BW fans, really sad, just as I did when Pro League switched. I do feel excited for SC2, but I imagine you must hate this.
I'm sorry.
I will watch all remaining OSL matches in honor of our e-sports brethren...
I can't imagine what this feels like, though I know one day it will happen to SC2 as well.
Your game will always go down as the founding father of RTS e-sports.
On June 06 2012 10:01 Freezd wrote: I didn't play bw but it must suck for the bw hardcore fans :\
Yes it does, but I guess it's inevitable. All I would want to see before I leave this community is Flash winning the Diamond Mouse. He has a pretty long ass time before he needs to go to ace I think.
Excited to finally have an integrated scene and everyone pulling in the same direction. Sad that this will be the last we'll see of dedicated professional broodwar, but the game does not end with the professional scene it is what you make it.
I'm feeling sad inside my tummy right now, the last OSL, wow. Since BW is dying, Flash killing BW isn't much important anymore, so I hope he wins the last one !
Sorry to all the BW fans that our joy as SC2 fans has to come at their expense. I hope SC2 can replace the glory that was BW, but I can understand that for some nothing could replace what BW was to them. It truly was an amazing thing and is the thing that all other eSports strive to be on the level of.
It will be so cool to see SC2 "originals" playing against KeSPA players, but I suspect it will really depend on how OGN and GOM can cooperate to make sure that there's enough time for players to compete in both.
On the plus side for foreign players, if all Korean teams become over encumbered by Proleague, OSL, and GSL then foreign tournaments will be a lot easier for them to win!
is the most sad news of the e-sport of all time, Starcraft was the first real e-sport in a country and now Starcraft 2 is the only chance to save a little of this legacy, if wasnt starcraft 2 today i think LoL and DOTA would will BW anyway, So Starcraft 2 and HOTS is the only hope to save competitive RTS.
Great news. Its time to transition out of BW and increase the competition of competitive sc2. BW players and GSL stars duking it out should be amazing to watch!
I'm just going to say for BW fans that although the big tournaments will be ending, it's not the complete end, and I do believe there will still be a pro-scene to follow. I doubt the skill level will be as high as before in terms of games, but there will most likely be some pros who flat-out refuse to switch and will continue to play BW. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a number of online cups to spring up also for instance.
Anyways, chin ups, peeps. I'm excited to see this new season (esp. with the better production value).
I don't have much else to add, I kind of wish that SC2 and BW could continue to exist side-by-side.
That being said I think that SC2 will be a disaster once it is fully adopted because Blizzard refuses to add LAN. Who cares about the reconnect from replay feature when you have a live televised event and some aspect of a player's connection to the internet fails.
On June 06 2012 10:23 ChaoticLlama wrote: I don't have much else to add, I kind of wish that SC2 and BW could continue to exist side-by-side.
That being said I think that SC2 will be a disaster once it is fully adopted because Blizzard refuses to add LAN. Who cares about the reconnect from replay feature when you have a live televised event and some aspect of a player's connection to the internet fails.
GG BW
I can count on one hand the number of disconnects in a GSL game.
There's plenty of internet issues in the west with crappy internet, people who don't know what they're doing and sub par blizzard support but in Korea the LAN problem has barely been an issue.
On June 06 2012 10:21 babylon wrote: I'm just going to say for BW fans that although the big tournaments will be ending, it's not the complete end, and I do believe there will still be a pro-scene to follow. I doubt the skill level will be as high as before in terms of games, but there will most likely be some pros who flat-out refuse to switch and will continue to play BW. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a number of online cups to spring up also for instance.
Anyways, chin ups, peeps. I'm excited to see this new season (esp. with the better production value).
I agree. Ultimately it's up to the fans whether a game dies or not. If you keep playing and keep watching competitions when they're on, or organising your own, it can never truly die.
On June 06 2012 10:01 Freezd wrote: I didn't play bw but it must suck for the bw hardcore fans :\
Yes it does, but I guess it's inevitable. All I would want to see before I leave this community is Flash winning the Diamond Mouse. He has a pretty long ass time before he needs to go to ace I think.
well, since its technically still OSL, I assume that the gold/plat/diamond mouse policy carries over (along with the OSL title victory counts too, I hope)?
Wow....seeing the reactions of BW fans in here makes me really sad inside even though I never really followed Pro-BW(been watching it for some time pre-2002 but that was a very different era)
I'm very happy there will (hopefully) be something like a unified korean SC2 scene but the emotions in here....just wow
And so the greatest esports scene and game is officially over.
It was a good run, cut short.....
13 years is cut short?
Compared to what it might have been, had SC2 never been released.
....some people are really stuck in time.. And some people try hard , not to think how much 13 years really is , its half life for i think 50% ( or even more then 50% ) of TL community , for some people even more then half of thier life. Changes are good , you wanna watch BW whole life ? With the same graphics , same players etc etc ? Things must evolve , deal with it.
On June 06 2012 10:09 Waxangel wrote: OGN's director mentioned that they would give BW OSL a proper send-off if they ever switched to SC2 fully, I hope they make good on it.
I feel bad for our BW bretheren, I'd mourn the same had I followed it much.
On the upswing, look at what great of a movement you've been part of, and how incredibly long its run was. All good things must come to an end. At least there is a successor, imperfect as it may be at this time.
I wonder if the Golden Mouse will switch over as well. I feel its something that should stick with BW. Stick with Nada, Flash, Jaedong, and July. But thats just my love for BW showing. It would be nice to see MVP continue his dominance and get one himself though.
On June 06 2012 10:09 Waxangel wrote: OGN's director mentioned that they would give BW OSL a proper send-off if they ever switched to SC2 fully, I hope they make good on it.
SC2 is what got me hooked into E-Sports, but the more and more I watched SC2, the more and more I watched Brood War. I've grown to love both games for their great moments and their many imperfections. I am deeply saddened by this bit of news and I wish it wasn't so, but at the same time I'm excited for what is to come, and I only wish the best for E-Sports, since we are such an amazing community.
I'm going to miss the great BW OSL moments such as Boxer vs. Iloveoov, and the most recent finals in Jangbi vs. Fantasy. Nothing can replace that spectacular play in my mind, but hopefully there are great things to come with the new OSL. I know I was cheering at the end of IMMvp vs. ST. Squirtle in the GSL, and as a lover of all things E-Sports, I know I'll be cheering just as passionately for the winner of future competitions to come.
On June 06 2012 10:09 opterown wrote: can someone explain how OSL season and prelim format usually works?
The format changed from season to season, but I believe it was like the top 12 or something got seeded into Round 2 and 3 respectively.
Prelims gets 16 players + 5-12 placing from previous OSL got placed into a Dual Tournament with 24 players (6 groups and the GOM style group format - winners vs winners (winner advances, loser plays winner of losers match for 2nd spot in group), losers vs losers (loser gets eliminated), ). From there, 12 players (top 2 of each group) would advance and meet the 1-4 placing in 4 regular groups (which means everyone played everyone).
Then top 2 of each group would advance to playoffs (Ro8).
I'd imagine the format will change for OSL SC2 though.
Importantly also, the group stages were usually Bo1s and Ro8 to finals were all Bo5.
On June 06 2012 10:19 Trevo wrote: is the most sad news of the e-sport of all time, Starcraft was the first real e-sport in a country and now Starcraft 2 is the only chance to save a little of this legacy, if wasnt starcraft 2 today i think LoL and DOTA would will BW anyway, So Starcraft 2 and HOTS is the only hope to save competitive RTS.
Rest in Peace
Hmm, that's a really interesting point actually.
I think you're right. DoTA2's million dollar tournament pretty much would have happened one way or another... I really hadn't considered that.
I follow sc2 mostly now but this news still made me feel hollow.... hard to say. But it was bound to happen eventually it is better this way for the players since they won't have to train both games after this osl. Just glad I was able to see pro bw in Korea while it was at its peak.
On June 06 2012 10:09 opterown wrote: can someone explain how OSL season and prelim format usually works?
The format changed from season to season, but I believe it was like the top 12 or something got seeded into Round 2 and 3 respectively.
Prelims gets 16 players + 5-12 placing from previous OSL got placed into a Dual Tournament with 24 players (6 groups and the GOM style group format - winners vs winners (winner advances, loser plays winner of losers match for 2nd spot in group), losers vs losers (loser gets eliminated), ). From there, 12 players (top 2 of each group) would advance and meet the 1-4 placing in 4 regular groups (which means everyone played everyone).
Then top 2 of each group would advance to playoffs (Ro8).
I'd imagine the format will change for OSL SC2 though.
Importantly also, the group stages were usually Bo1s and Ro8 to finals were all Bo5.
ah okay, sounds difficult to get my head around right now. haha thanks :D
On June 06 2012 10:53 bokchoi wrote: GSL players to participate in the OSL. Wonder if any KeSPA players will be able to get through qualifiers..
That actually feel worse to me, the top BW pros getting knocked out in the qualifiers by GSL players rather than pro BW dying. Not only does the league disappear but the fan favorites gets smashed.
On June 06 2012 10:53 bokchoi wrote: GSL players to participate in the OSL. Wonder if any KeSPA players will be able to get through qualifiers..
That actually feel worse to me, the top BW pros getting knocked out in the qualifiers by GSL players rather than pro BW dying. Not only does the league disappear but the fan favorites gets smashed.
That would suck to see them lose yes but you still know they will eventually rape everyone which makes you feel a bit better =)
On June 06 2012 10:03 vgrezende wrote: What a way to shit over OSL name. They don't have the decency to change the name. At least MBC and MSL were close with a little dignity.
Well, in years to come a new BW league will rise again, mark my words.
i dont think so. Who would make another BW league?
On June 06 2012 11:10 zeratul_jf wrote: I hope the BW pros will be able to focus on all SC2 now, especially once this OSL is over.
They still have to focus on BW due to the retarded PL format.. Unless they give up on the BW half and always try to just win Sc2 and force the sc2 ace match?
On June 06 2012 11:13 Caihead wrote: Wait. I just realized. Nada and July and Boxer could get more OSL titles. There might be someone who gets 4 or even more OSL wins other than Flash.
As cool as that would be, can't see any of them winning a title anytime soon, would be nice to see some other BW pro to win the first sc2 OSL (Jaedong!!!)
I guess to look on the brightish side of things from a BW-fans perspective, this kind of forces the entire SC community at large to take critical look at SC2 and voice thier opinions to Blizzard in the case of major issues as well just basic development of the game. A huge injection of very mechanically skilled players putting BW level hours into this game would significantly add to the development of the general metagame.
Also, I really hope more BW mapmakers and (almost more importantly) testers try thier hand at SC2. I feel like for one reason or another the map community has been kinda hobbling along. If obscenely high quality maps are not only developed but seriously promoted, Blizzard really won't have a choice but to either include and circulate them, or even hopefully create multiple "ladders" based on map pools.
So the BW scene is finally ending. I feel very empty inside. It hasn't hit me that I have been watching this game for the past six years and now the transition is happening...the feeling is too surreal.
At least there will be one unified scene. Have fun to those that enjoy watching SC2. I think after the end of this OSL, I will not follow suit.
On June 06 2012 10:02 Archile wrote: ok guys, I understand you're all bummed about brood war
but look on the bright side, all the production value you know and love will be transplanted into a sc2 league that allows for strong competiton, unlike proleague right now. More qualifiers means more opprotunities to see your favorite players!
Ppl that care about/play a 12 year old game.... care about production value? and money?
I knew this was coming, but I still don't know what to say. I loved Brood War since the beginning, but sadly only learned of professional play very late. All the sorrow and joy I never got to experience is a loss I keenly feel, but these few years I did get to watch were a treat. I may not have seen Boxer become a legend, but I did see him nuke Killer back when Oz was using him in Ace matches. I watched Fantasy's rise to fame, his glories and embarrassments. I witnessed the short-lived Six Dragons Season and then, after I'd given up all hope of ever seeing a Protoss champion again, Jangbi overcome all expectations in a glorious finale. I rooted for underdogs like Tempest, Saint, Lomo and BackHo, and I cheered for masters of the craft like Bisu, Stork, Fantasy, Leta and Zero.
This feeling is like the one you get at the end of a good book. Sorrow that the enjoyment has come to an end, but also satisfaction at a work well crafted.
On June 06 2012 10:02 Archile wrote: ok guys, I understand you're all bummed about brood war
but look on the bright side, all the production value you know and love will be transplanted into a sc2 league that allows for strong competiton, unlike proleague right now. More qualifiers means more opprotunities to see your favorite players!
Ppl that care about/play a 12 year old game.... care about production value? and money?
Depends whether they care about the game itself, or about being ESPORTS.
Good bye Broodwar, it is so sad to say good bye to a game u've know ur whole life (maybe even first game i saw and played), i really regret not knowing about Professional Broodwar for so long. I will now watch all remaining osl matches at least. Today is a sad day.
On June 06 2012 10:02 Archile wrote: ok guys, I understand you're all bummed about brood war
but look on the bright side, all the production value you know and love will be transplanted into a sc2 league that allows for strong competiton, unlike proleague right now. More qualifiers means more opprotunities to see your favorite players!
Ppl that care about/play a 12 year old game.... care about production value? and money?
I don't think you can deny BW's production value if it lasted 12 years and created, basically, an entirely new genre of business.
I suppose it's better to end now than try to do another one when everyone's playing SC2, but ugh. It's huge news for the Korean SC2 scene, but I kind of don't care about that right now.
On June 06 2012 10:02 Archile wrote: ok guys, I understand you're all bummed about brood war
but look on the bright side, all the production value you know and love will be transplanted into a sc2 league that allows for strong competiton, unlike proleague right now. More qualifiers means more opprotunities to see your favorite players!
Ppl that care about/play a 12 year old game.... care about production value? and money?
I don't think you can deny BW's production value if it lasted 12 years and created, basically, an entirely new genre of business.
What attracted people the most was the game itself. Flashing lights and smoke and mirrors do not make a good show.
I wanted to read all through this thread but I had to stop. It is sad to see BW die to the sound of applause by Sc2 fans. My initial reaction was to write a giant wall of text flaming Sc2 but I deleted it. I feel like my best friend just moved. Sure he's not dead but I'll never see him again and it will never be the same. I am fucking speechless I don't know what to write. This is the end so I guess I'm done here. I will be drowning my sorrows on ladder tonight.
On June 06 2012 11:41 MicrowaveMess wrote: I wanted to read all through this thread but I had to stop. It is sad to see BW die to the sound of applause by Sc2 fans. My initial reaction was to write a giant wall of text flaming Sc2 but I deleted it. I feel like my best friend just moved. Sure he's not dead but I'll never see him again and it will never be the same. I am fucking speechless I don't know what to write. This is the end so I guess I'm done here. I will be drowning my sorrows on ladder tonight.
There were maybe 2 people in this thread who applauded...
On June 06 2012 11:41 MicrowaveMess wrote: I wanted to read all through this thread but I had to stop. It is sad to see BW die to the sound of applause by Sc2 fans. My initial reaction was to write a giant wall of text flaming Sc2 but I deleted it. I feel like my best friend just moved. Sure he's not dead but I'll never see him again and it will never be the same. I am fucking speechless I don't know what to write. This is the end so I guess I'm done here. I will be drowning my sorrows on ladder tonight.
On June 06 2012 11:40 TBone- wrote: One of my favorite things I'll miss about professional brood war were the hype videos, which are almost void in sc2.
I mean damnit why can't we have this in sc2 t.t + Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=og-gULrg1Jo
Damn straight. Though to be honest most of the recent intros haven't been that exciting.
I still feel like Reach is about to murder me every time I watch the Daum intro.
On June 06 2012 10:02 Archile wrote: ok guys, I understand you're all bummed about brood war
but look on the bright side, all the production value you know and love will be transplanted into a sc2 league that allows for strong competiton, unlike proleague right now. More qualifiers means more opprotunities to see your favorite players!
Ppl that care about/play a 12 year old game.... care about production value? and money?
I don't think you can deny BW's production value if it lasted 12 years and created, basically, an entirely new genre of business.
What attracted people the most was the game itself. Flashing lights and smoke and mirrors do not make a good show.
Yet the production value was higher than any other SC2 tournament : tons of awesome hype videos, real TV broadcasts, so much better casters, hilarious group ceremonies, spectacular finals (Flash arriving to the finals stage from a fucking plane), etc.
We need to have a big foreign BW tournament dedicated to the memory of OSL, and to BW as a whole. Like, a big one, bigger than anything I could personally sponsor.
On June 06 2012 11:48 Ribbon wrote: We need to have a big foreign BW tournament dedicated to the memory of OSL, and to BW as a whole. Like, a big one, bigger than anything I could personally sponsor.
On June 06 2012 09:47 fabiano wrote: That's fucking retarded, but we all knew that stupid crap was coming anyway.
Maybe in 10 years SC2 will be half as good as BW was and watching a game of it won't be boring as fuck.
Also, of course:
Congratulations SC2 fans! Yet another SC2 tournament to follow. How many are there already? Dreamhack, MLG, IPL, IEM, fake SPL and fake OSL, that's at least 6 major tournaments.
I'm fucking mad about this stupid shit, but I sincerely hope that SC2 can become something much better than it is today. Hope that in 3 years I will look back and say that I was overreacting and that SC2 wasn't the shit I thought it was.
Eh, there's still HotS and LotV coming out. The expansions might make the game more appealing to more people. I was hoping they wouldn't switch over to SC2 until HotS arrived, myself.
Me too. My esports story was born with SC2 but I grew up playing BW. These recent months have had me actually watching a lot of BW matches and I'm sad that I won't be able to experience more than one full OSL before it all ends. I hope it's a good one.
As someone who joined TeamLiquid and picked up the game in the SC2 era, this news is definitely exciting.
However, I will definitely be sure to tune in to the rest of the games in this current OSL; even if I have work the next morning, even if I don't have anywhere near a complete grasp on the massive amounts of backstory behind these players or the game itself, hell, even if I don't have anything more than a basic understanding of what's going on in game, I owe it to Brood War and the massive legacy it's built up.
As Stopher said above, R.I.P. , professional Brood War. Long live SC2.
Sad, sad news, but inevitable. Better that it's being replaced by SC2 OSL than OGN's LoL tournament simply taking over. Nothing compares with pro level RTS in esports. Hopefully a few KeSPA players can improve greatly over the next month and qualify so that there's some continuity.
On June 06 2012 10:02 Archile wrote: ok guys, I understand you're all bummed about brood war
but look on the bright side, all the production value you know and love will be transplanted into a sc2 league that allows for strong competiton, unlike proleague right now. More qualifiers means more opprotunities to see your favorite players!
Ppl that care about/play a 12 year old game.... care about production value? and money?
I don't think you can deny BW's production value if it lasted 12 years and created, basically, an entirely new genre of business.
What attracted people the most was the game itself. Flashing lights and smoke and mirrors do not make a good show.
Yet the production value was higher than any other SC2 tournament : tons of awesome hype videos, real TV broadcasts, so much better casters, hilarious group ceremonies, spectacular finals (Flash arriving to the finals stage from a fucking plane), etc.
And what is it that you remember the most from the last PL finals? The games themselves right (or I suppose, the story behind)? You can make it look pretty, but it has to have substance.
It's like a massive gamble atm, either the BW pros come and push the metagame or "metagame" to the limit, and we find out that it's actually pretty enjoyable to play/watch at that level, or they don't, that the skill ceiling really is as low as it is implied.
I mean, it's probably too much to ask for them to hold a smaller, lower production value BW league at the same time as the newer SC2 league..... but I think the fans would appreciate it.
Won't the prelims potentially affect the ro4 players who are still practicing for their OSL games? Would be strange if they SEEDED those for an entirely different game.
I wasn't lucky enough to experience the long and storied history of BW, only really coming into eSports with SC2. So in a way, I'm really happy to see more players, and a huge league, coming over to the game I love.
At the same time, I know that SCBW has been the greatest eSport of all time, with incredible stories, players, teams, leagues, and in a way I'm sad to see that end. Even though I never got to enjoy it all live, BW has my respect as probably the most important game in the history of eSports. My only hope is that SC2 can take up the mantle as well as possible, and do justice to the name.
Most amazing disappointing news yet. Honestly though, I'm very optimistic about the future of SC2 and I believe it will be a sturdy replacement once HotS comes out and strategies become more solid.
On June 06 2012 11:58 GARO wrote: Won't the prelims potentially affect the ro4 players who are still practicing for their OSL games? Would be strange if they SEEDED those for an entirely different game.
On June 06 2012 11:59 BraneSC2 wrote: Most amazing disappointing news yet. Honestly though, I'm very optimistic about the future of SC2 and I believe it will be a sturdy replacement once HotS comes out and strategies become more solid.
As someone who likes both games, SC2 will never be a "replacement" for BW.
On June 06 2012 10:02 Archile wrote: ok guys, I understand you're all bummed about brood war
but look on the bright side, all the production value you know and love will be transplanted into a sc2 league that allows for strong competiton, unlike proleague right now. More qualifiers means more opprotunities to see your favorite players!
Ppl that care about/play a 12 year old game.... care about production value? and money?
I don't think you can deny BW's production value if it lasted 12 years and created, basically, an entirely new genre of business.
What attracted people the most was the game itself. Flashing lights and smoke and mirrors do not make a good show.
Yet the production value was higher than any other SC2 tournament : tons of awesome hype videos, real TV broadcasts, so much better casters, hilarious group ceremonies, spectacular finals (Flash arriving to the finals stage from a fucking plane), etc.
And what is it that you remember the most from the last PL finals? The games themselves right (or I suppose, the story behind)? You can make it look pretty, but it has to have substance.
It's like a massive gamble atm, either the BW pros come and push the metagame or "metagame" to the limit, and we find out that it's actually pretty enjoyable to play/watch at that level, or they don't, that the skill ceiling really is as low as it is implied.
I mean, it's probably too much to ask for them to hold a smaller, lower production value BW league at the same time as the newer SC2 league..... but I think the fans would appreciate it.
tbh SC2's never been better, this is probably the most exciting season of SC2, BW pros definitely can contribute to the metagame, it's inevitable that with that much dedication and work ethic.
yes, I have been waiting for a long time for this day to come. I pay my respects and tributes to the bw legends that have built and defined esports, but wow, am I excited
Broodwar was something of a mystique to me as someone also said earlier. It has an unbelievable history and story in its past 13 years, and I'm darn sad to see the pro scene go away. Although I started with SC2, I recently started to play brood war as well and loving the game play. There's so many options and strategies that can be exploited, heck I've played more BW than SC2 this past week.
But to be constructive, I hope the SC2 scene gets to the level that BW got at its peak and if at all possible surpass it.
On June 06 2012 12:22 paddyz wrote: RIP BW, can't wait for SC2 in OSL, dont get why they started doing LOL before SC2 in the first place, its about time.
Because LoL has been all the craze lately all over the world.
Yeeeeeeeees! More SC2 leagues. I can't get enough of them. Kespa players vs GSL players will be awesome. I hope R1CH makes the appropriate tweaks so people don't have to enable the Brood War checkbox on the calendar streams to be reminded of the league, like we do right now for Proleague.
I can only hope that blizzard realises how not up to par sc2 as an esport is (in terms of viewability, strategy etc) and makes a game worth of being broodwar's successor by the time the final expansion is out. As it stands now, watching sc2 is boring regardles of who is playing.
RIP OSL, I will forver remember the great moments you provided me with.
On June 06 2012 10:02 Archile wrote: ok guys, I understand you're all bummed about brood war
but look on the bright side, all the production value you know and love will be transplanted into a sc2 league that allows for strong competiton, unlike proleague right now. More qualifiers means more opprotunities to see your favorite players!
Ppl that care about/play a 12 year old game.... care about production value? and money?
I don't think you can deny BW's production value if it lasted 12 years and created, basically, an entirely new genre of business.
What attracted people the most was the game itself. Flashing lights and smoke and mirrors do not make a good show.
Yet the production value was higher than any other SC2 tournament : tons of awesome hype videos, real TV broadcasts, so much better casters, hilarious group ceremonies, spectacular finals (Flash arriving to the finals stage from a fucking plane), etc.
And what is it that you remember the most from the last PL finals? The games themselves right (or I suppose, the story behind)? You can make it look pretty, but it has to have substance.
It's like a massive gamble atm, either the BW pros come and push the metagame or "metagame" to the limit, and we find out that it's actually pretty enjoyable to play/watch at that level, or they don't, that the skill ceiling really is as low as it is implied.
I mean, it's probably too much to ask for them to hold a smaller, lower production value BW league at the same time as the newer SC2 league..... but I think the fans would appreciate it.
Obviously the games are more important. Even if SC2 tournaments can eventually the same production value as BW, I'll still not watch them. But you originally stated that BW fans don't care about production value, and that's just untrue. The hype videos, players entrance, Jeon Yong Joon's voice, all of these gave me tons of nerd chills before the games even started and made the games so much more enjoyable to watch.
I'm taking the time to enjoy Brood War a few more times on broadcast, for sure. Thanks for the great memories, I guess? Let's keep the chatter here positive and nostalgic and not blame SC2 for "killing" Brood War!
On June 06 2012 12:45 KivTM wrote: I can only hope that blizzard realises how not up to par sc2 as an esport is (in terms of viewability, strategy etc) and makes a game worth of being broodwar's successor by the time the final expansion is out. As it stands now, watching sc2 is boring regardles of who is playing.
RIP OSL, I will forver remember the great moments you provided me with.
Luckily, we have 2 more expansions and countless patches to look forward. Remember, the original Starcraft was not anywhere near as good as Brood War. Let's hope HotS and LotV follow suit.
Oh scToo, how do I hate youuu. Farewell, goodbye so long OSL I'll remember the memories. If scToo becomes half as good as BW was in say three years, I'll be content
On June 06 2012 12:45 KivTM wrote: I can only hope that blizzard realises how not up to par sc2 as an esport is (in terms of viewability, strategy etc) and makes a game worth of being broodwar's successor by the time the final expansion is out. As it stands now, watching sc2 is boring regardles of who is playing.
RIP OSL, I will forver remember the great moments you provided me with.
Luckily, we have 2 more expansions and countless patches to look forward. Remember, the original Starcraft was not anywhere near as good as Brood War. Let's hope HotS and LotV follow suit.
LET'S NOT HAVE THIS ARGUMENT
BW is dying and that is bad. Not even just bad for BW, but bad in general.
Korean SC2 has a badly-needed non-GSL tournament (SC2 has tons of foreign tourneys, but little in Korea). This is good for SC2.
Either way, this is not the thread to debate the merits of the respective games.
On June 06 2012 13:02 X10A wrote: Oh scToo, how do I hate youuu. Farewell, goodbye so long OSL I'll remember the memories. If scToo becomes half as good as BW was in say three years, I'll be content
I sincerely hope you'll continue LRing. You're the only LR I find entertaining in and of itself.
On June 06 2012 13:02 X10A wrote: Oh scToo, how do I hate youuu. Farewell, goodbye so long OSL I'll remember the memories. If scToo becomes half as good as BW was in say three years, I'll be content
Now BW people can start feeling the same way us WC3 players felt when SC2 first came out.
I never watched or played BW(at least multiplayer :p), but I feel very sad for this. This might be a good news for now, but looking at the future it's bad news, as even best games come and go so far...
Sorry BW fans. I know this is probably really devastating. I could see esports growing like this but didn't quite expect BW to die so fast. Well, I'm a BW fan too, but I like SC2 as well, so it's not that much of a loss for me.
Lolwhat? Kespa just going to hand over all the prize money to the GSL guys.
Kespa really botched the timing on this transition. If they're going to switch to SC2 for the OSL, then why get locked into a full 3-4 month season of hybrid Proleague. The Kespa players have absolutely no chance to get good enough at SC2 in that short amount of time, especially since they're splitting time with BW. There's a very real possibility that no Kespa players will advance out of the qualifiers of this OSL. Which basically defeats the purpose of trying to transition to SC2 gradually.
They should have restricted the OSL to Kespa players for the first season, and then open it up when Proleague switches over completely. Or they could have squeezed in one more BW OSL, and have the full transition of Proleague and OSL happen at the same time. Even a full transition to SC2 for Proleague instead of hybrid format would have made more sense. Once again, they've chosen the worst of both worlds approach.
On June 06 2012 11:40 TBone- wrote: One of my favorite things I'll miss about professional brood war were the hype videos, which are almost void in sc2.
I mean damnit why can't we have this in sc2 t.t + Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=og-gULrg1Jo
thiss omgg, I watched these over and over the moment i caught wind of them on youtube.
On June 06 2012 13:15 cablesc wrote: Lolwhat? Kespa just going to hand over all the prize money to the GSL guys.
Kespa really botched the timing on this transition. If they're going to switch to SC2 for the OSL, then why get locked into a full 3-4 month season of hybrid Proleague. The Kespa players have absolutely no chance to get good enough at SC2 in that short amount of time, especially since they're splitting time with BW. There's a very real possibility that no Kespa players will advance out of the qualifiers of this OSL. Which basically defeats the purpose of trying to transition to SC2 gradually.
They should have restricted the OSL to Kespa players for the first season, and then open it up when Proleague switches over completely. Or they could have squeezed in one more BW OSL, and have the full transition of Proleague and OSL happen at the same time. Even a full transition to SC2 for Proleague instead of hybrid format would have made more sense. Once again, they've chosen the worst of both worlds approach.
They haven't said when the next OSL will start right? Could be a long long time, the gap between last last and Tving was a long time. A few months will give a lot of the players a good chance to catch up.
On June 06 2012 13:15 cablesc wrote: Lolwhat? Kespa just going to hand over all the prize money to the GSL guys.
Kespa really botched the timing on this transition. If they're going to switch to SC2 for the OSL, then why get locked into a full 3-4 month season of hybrid Proleague. The Kespa players have absolutely no chance to get good enough at SC2 in that short amount of time, especially since they're splitting time with BW. There's a very real possibility that no Kespa players will advance out of the qualifiers of this OSL. Which basically defeats the purpose of trying to transition to SC2 gradually.
They should have restricted the OSL to Kespa players for the first season, and then open it up when Proleague switches over completely. Or they could have squeezed in one more BW OSL, and have the full transition of Proleague and OSL happen at the same time. Even a full transition to SC2 for Proleague instead of hybrid format would have made more sense. Once again, they've chosen the worst of both worlds approach.
They haven't said when the next OSL will start right? Could be a long long time, the gap between last last and Tving was a long time. A few months will give a lot of the players a good chance to catch up.
The preliminaries are in July. It says in the OP
But i agree with what Cablesc wrote. Its too fast for the BW players.
On June 06 2012 13:15 cablesc wrote: Lolwhat? Kespa just going to hand over all the prize money to the GSL guys.
Kespa really botched the timing on this transition. If they're going to switch to SC2 for the OSL, then why get locked into a full 3-4 month season of hybrid Proleague. The Kespa players have absolutely no chance to get good enough at SC2 in that short amount of time, especially since they're splitting time with BW. There's a very real possibility that no Kespa players will advance out of the qualifiers of this OSL. Which basically defeats the purpose of trying to transition to SC2 gradually.
They should have restricted the OSL to Kespa players for the first season, and then open it up when Proleague switches over completely. Or they could have squeezed in one more BW OSL, and have the full transition of Proleague and OSL happen at the same time. Even a full transition to SC2 for Proleague instead of hybrid format would have made more sense. Once again, they've chosen the worst of both worlds approach.
They haven't said when the next OSL will start right? Could be a long long time, the gap between last last and Tving was a long time. A few months will give a lot of the players a good chance to catch up.
They said the prelim will start mid or late July, so it's not that long unless they mean July next year
This means that the last BW games will be played in the hybrid proleague right? That's a massive shame. I think most would agree that the SPL has been incredibly hollow so far, particularly from a BW perspective. The last BW series should be the finals of the OSL, a massive show on a big stage where the entire event is about BW. Isn't that really the only worthy send off?
Otherwise it's just gonna be a shitty bo3 opener before a sc2 series and ace match. That just doesn't seem right to me.
On June 06 2012 12:56 High[5] wrote: RIP BW! finally! BW was holding back SC2 soo much! :D LONG LIVE SC2!! :D
On June 06 2012 13:07 Hadley_ wrote: Finally! A 800x600 2D Game still shown on TV in 2012... where the fuck we are living. Nothing is lost and nothing will be remembered.
On June 06 2012 13:02 X10A wrote: Oh scToo, how do I hate youuu. Farewell, goodbye so long OSL I'll remember the memories. If scToo becomes half as good as BW was in say three years, I'll be content
Now BW people can start feeling the same way us WC3 players felt when SC2 first came out.
>.<
Actually, there's a pretty real possibility that War3's going to outlive BW (in China that is). It really depends on how the BW scene develops after the OSL and KeSPA drops them and what the players who still decide to continue playing BW decide to do with themselves, if any sponsors will drop money to support the remainder of the scene on smaller prize pools, if KeSPA will allow that to happen (I'm unsure of what rights they have over BW and how far they'd go to discourage this), etc.
I'll just say that if there are still players in Korea who can make a living off playing War3, then I'm positive that it's possible for BW players who have a much larger following in Korea.
Oh shit. This is going to be awesome!!! I must admit, I haven't been watching my old BW loves as much since sc2 came out, however I can't wait to see them all competing in sc2. I am very excited.
On June 06 2012 13:02 X10A wrote: Oh scToo, how do I hate youuu. Farewell, goodbye so long OSL I'll remember the memories. If scToo becomes half as good as BW was in say three years, I'll be content
Now BW people can start feeling the same way us WC3 players felt when SC2 first came out.
>.<
Actually, there's a pretty real possibility that War3's going to outlive BW (in China that is). It really depends on how the BW scene develops after the OSL and KeSPA drops them and what the players who still decide to continue playing BW decide to do with themselves, if any sponsors will drop money to support the remainder of the scene on smaller prize pools, etc.
I'll just say that if there are still players in Korea who can make a living off playing War3, then I'm positive that it's possible for BW players who have a much larger following in Korea.
RTS are pretty much dead in China. The last league is the G-League, for both SC2 and W3 and it isn't what it used to be... SC2 is a huge flop and is only played by former competitive BW/WC3 players. It's all about Dota.
On June 06 2012 13:02 X10A wrote: Oh scToo, how do I hate youuu. Farewell, goodbye so long OSL I'll remember the memories. If scToo becomes half as good as BW was in say three years, I'll be content
Now BW people can start feeling the same way us WC3 players felt when SC2 first came out.
>.<
Actually, there's a pretty real possibility that War3's going to outlive BW (in China that is). It really depends on how the BW scene develops after the OSL and KeSPA drops them and what the players who still decide to continue playing BW decide to do with themselves, if any sponsors will drop money to support the remainder of the scene on smaller prize pools, etc.
I'll just say that if there are still players in Korea who can make a living off playing War3, then I'm positive that it's possible for BW players who have a much larger following in Korea.
RTS are pretty much dead in China. The last league is the G-League, for both SC2 and W3 and it isn't what it used to be... SC2 is a huge flop and is only played by former competitive BW/WC3 players. It's all about Dota.
I've heard that LoL has been getting big there too.
Do you know if G-League is going to still hold War3/SC2 for another season? Right now I'm keeping track of SW7, G-League, AWC, and some of the more minor cups being held where quite a few big names in both Korea and China consistently compete in.
On June 06 2012 12:56 High[5] wrote: RIP BW! finally! BW was holding back SC2 soo much! :D LONG LIVE SC2!! :D
On June 06 2012 13:07 Hadley_ wrote: Finally! A 800x600 2D Game still shown on TV in 2012... where the fuck we are living. Nothing is lost and nothing will be remembered.
On June 06 2012 13:02 X10A wrote: Oh scToo, how do I hate youuu. Farewell, goodbye so long OSL I'll remember the memories. If scToo becomes half as good as BW was in say three years, I'll be content
Now BW people can start feeling the same way us WC3 players felt when SC2 first came out.
>.<
Actually, there's a pretty real possibility that War3's going to outlive BW (in China that is). It really depends on how the BW scene develops after the OSL and KeSPA drops them and what the players who still decide to continue playing BW decide to do with themselves, if any sponsors will drop money to support the remainder of the scene on smaller prize pools, etc.
I'll just say that if there are still players in Korea who can make a living off playing War3, then I'm positive that it's possible for BW players who have a much larger following in Korea.
RTS are pretty much dead in China. The last league is the G-League, for both SC2 and W3 and it isn't what it used to be... SC2 is a huge flop and is only played by former competitive BW/WC3 players. It's all about Dota.
I've heard that LoL has been getting big there too.
Do you know if G-League is going to still hold War3/SC2 for another season? Right now I'm keeping track of SW7, G-League, AWC, and some of the more minor cups being held where quite a few big names in both Korea and China consistently compete in.
Any Dota games are quite big there. China loves this type of game.
On June 06 2012 13:38 The_Stampede wrote: I like how people are really sad about BW dying, but when people stream OSL/Team Leauge, there's literally no ones watching
you do realize the most of the BW audience are much older and have jobs and other things right? they have work in the morning.
the foreign BW fanbase was always about a 1/20th of what the SC2 fanbase is right now.
On June 06 2012 13:38 The_Stampede wrote: I like how people are really sad about BW dying, but when people stream OSL/Team Leauge, there's literally no ones watching
1000+ viewers on TL is pretty decent. We also are a few more thousands watching the Chinese stream. And most importantly, you forgot that in Korea, people were watching it on their TV during dinner = no stream viewers.
Time to stop using the word "literally" when you shouldn't.
I really feel sorry for all the bw fans but I have to admit, as someone who is way more into SC2, I'm so excited! The bw pros will be able to focus purely on SC2 and I cannot wait to see what they come up with.
On June 06 2012 13:38 The_Stampede wrote: I like how people are really sad about BW dying, but when people stream OSL/Team Leauge, there's literally no ones watching
1000+ viewers on TL is pretty decent. We also are a few more thousands watching the Chinese stream. And most importantly, you forgot that in Korea, people were watching it on their TV during dinner = no stream viewers.
Time to stop using the word "literally" when you shouldn't.
Also I don't think ESPORTSTV gives a live viewer count.
On June 06 2012 13:38 The_Stampede wrote: I like how people are really sad about BW dying, but when people stream OSL/Team Leauge, there's literally no ones watching
1000+ viewers on TL is pretty decent. We also are a few more thousands watching the Chinese stream. And most importantly, you forgot that in Korea, people were watching it on their TV during dinner = no stream viewers.
Time to stop using the word "literally" when you shouldn't.
Also I don't think ESPORTSTV gives a live viewer count.
It does, it's usually <1000 , obviously because most people are watching through sayle, vlc, or one of the HD restreams.
On June 06 2012 13:07 Hadley_ wrote: Finally! A 800x600 2D Game still shown on TV in 2012... where the fuck we are living. Nothing is lost and nothing will be remembered.
shameless, complete and utter lack of respect.
lol? People trash sc2 on the bw forums all they want but its unacceptable to hold these views (however spiteful, especially the first quote)? Double standards bro.
I hope there will be long breack between ongoing OSL and next OSL so even some BW players might have chance to winone or two GSL players. In my opinion it would have been better to have one kespa players only OSL and then let them play all together
EDIT: Didin´t notice that the preliminaries will statrt in july.. This tournament is doomed unfortunetly
On June 06 2012 12:56 High[5] wrote: RIP BW! finally! BW was holding back SC2 soo much! :D LONG LIVE SC2!! :D
On June 06 2012 13:07 Hadley_ wrote: Finally! A 800x600 2D Game still shown on TV in 2012... where the fuck we are living. Nothing is lost and nothing will be remembered.
shameless, complete and utter lack of respect.
lol? People trash sc2 on the bw forums all they want but its unacceptable to hold these views (however spiteful, especially the first quote)? Double standards bro.
still doesn't make what they say right or any less offensive.
On June 06 2012 12:56 High[5] wrote: RIP BW! finally! BW was holding back SC2 soo much! :D LONG LIVE SC2!! :D
On June 06 2012 13:07 Hadley_ wrote: Finally! A 800x600 2D Game still shown on TV in 2012... where the fuck we are living. Nothing is lost and nothing will be remembered.
shameless, complete and utter lack of respect.
lol? People trash sc2 on the bw forums all they want but its unacceptable to hold these views (however spiteful, especially the first quote)? Double standards bro.
Err this is the last BW tournament whereas SC2 is still popular and growing, how in the world is it double standards? Dam I don't get people on this forums sometimes.
On June 06 2012 13:07 Hadley_ wrote: Finally! A 800x600 2D Game still shown on TV in 2012... where the fuck we are living. Nothing is lost and nothing will be remembered.
shameless, complete and utter lack of respect.
I normally wouldn't comment, but giving 3 middle fingers doesn't show a whole lot of respect either.
I love sc2 but I also really enjoy watching BW, and envy how well the game was designed.
On June 06 2012 13:38 The_Stampede wrote: I like how people are really sad about BW dying, but when people stream OSL/Team Leauge, there's literally no ones watching
I rarely even watch finals live. I watched Flash vs. Effort live, and I was so tired that I don't remember it at all. Or maybe it was just bad. But seriously, I much prefer to watch them later with NukeTheStars' commentary.
On June 06 2012 12:56 High[5] wrote: RIP BW! finally! BW was holding back SC2 soo much! :D LONG LIVE SC2!! :D
On June 06 2012 13:07 Hadley_ wrote: Finally! A 800x600 2D Game still shown on TV in 2012... where the fuck we are living. Nothing is lost and nothing will be remembered.
shameless, complete and utter lack of respect.
I normally wouldn't comment, but giving 3 middle fingers doesn't show a whole lot of respect either.
I love sc2 but I also really enjoy watching BW, and envy how well the game was designed.
because I'm not showing any respect to them...I'm not mad that OSL is moving to SC2, with the way thing were going it was inevitable.
I'm pissed off at people who don't appreciate what BW/SC1 is to a lot of people and even SC2.
On June 06 2012 12:56 High[5] wrote: RIP BW! finally! BW was holding back SC2 soo much! :D LONG LIVE SC2!! :D
On June 06 2012 13:07 Hadley_ wrote: Finally! A 800x600 2D Game still shown on TV in 2012... where the fuck we are living. Nothing is lost and nothing will be remembered.
shameless, complete and utter lack of respect.
lol? People trash sc2 on the bw forums all they want but its unacceptable to hold these views (however spiteful, especially the first quote)? Double standards bro.
Err this is the last BW tournament whereas SC2 is still popular and growing, how in the world is it double standards? Dam I don't get people on this forums sometimes.
Its a double standard because people on the bw forums think its ok to shit on sc2 but get offended when anything bad is said about bw. That's called a double standard.
On June 06 2012 12:56 High[5] wrote: RIP BW! finally! BW was holding back SC2 soo much! :D LONG LIVE SC2!! :D
On June 06 2012 13:07 Hadley_ wrote: Finally! A 800x600 2D Game still shown on TV in 2012... where the fuck we are living. Nothing is lost and nothing will be remembered.
shameless, complete and utter lack of respect.
lol? People trash sc2 on the bw forums all they want but its unacceptable to hold these views (however spiteful, especially the first quote)? Double standards bro.
Actually, the vast majority of people who speak negatively about SC2 have dozens of constructive reasons for that. It's just that they don't feel like writing an essey each time SC2 and BW are being compared or such, so they do not elaborate on their view, which some insecure SC2 fans blow out of proportions.
E.g. when I or another BW player say that SC2 (severely) lacks micro when compared to BW, we could explain that in several paragraphs, repeating what we have already said in many other threads/articles. Are we supposed to do that everytime a random SC2 fan asks a one liner question or calls us "haters"?
On June 06 2012 12:56 High[5] wrote: RIP BW! finally! BW was holding back SC2 soo much! :D LONG LIVE SC2!! :D
On June 06 2012 13:07 Hadley_ wrote: Finally! A 800x600 2D Game still shown on TV in 2012... where the fuck we are living. Nothing is lost and nothing will be remembered.
shameless, complete and utter lack of respect.
lol? People trash sc2 on the bw forums all they want but its unacceptable to hold these views (however spiteful, especially the first quote)? Double standards bro.
Actually, the vast majority of people who speak negatively about SC2 have dozens of constructive reasons for that. It's just that they don't feel like writing an essey each time SC2 and BW are being compared or such, so they do not elaborate on their view, which some insecure SC2 fans blow out of proportions.
Are you sure that their reason are mostly constructive? From what I saw most of them are just not. It's just their opinion which many SC2 fans may not even agree with. If you will talk shit about other game then you should be fine when other people do to your game too.
I thought I had moved on and was totally over the BW scene, but seeing this just makes me incredibly sad. I would rather celebrate 13 years of excellence and remember all the joy it gave me and the friends I met through it. Nope, just sad.
If the hardchore progamers in the code A qualifers + actual code S champions take part on it, even TBLS, is going to be kicked in the ass is still really soon for them.
It'll basically be a Diamond-Master tournament with mostly PvP and terrible games. Unless something happens between now and then. At least they'll allow some of the current SC2 pros join. I might watch just for the production quality
On June 06 2012 15:04 KristofferAG wrote: God dammit. There's nothing good about this.
It'll basically be a Diamond-Master tournament with mostly PvP and terrible games. Unless something happens between now and then. At least they'll allow some of the current SC2 pros join. I might watch just for the production quality
All the BW pros will drop out immediately if enough GSL players join. I like the BW pros and I like BW but I dont think they can compete yet with GSL pros (or even really good foreigners like stephano etc)
I tried to detach myself from it... "now I can move on, focus on other things". But it's hitting me really, really hard right now. I've played and watched this game for over 13 fucking years. I've seen the extraordinary evolution in strategy and skill. I've experienced the incredible history of progaming from start to finish. Now it's gone, and for no good reason.
SC2 players, please understand that everything you hold dear is thanks to this game.
On June 06 2012 15:04 KristofferAG wrote: God dammit. There's nothing good about this.
It'll basically be a Diamond-Master tournament with mostly PvP and terrible games. Unless something happens between now and then. At least they'll allow some of the current SC2 pros join. I might watch just for the production quality
All the BW pros will drop out immediately if enough GSL players join. I like the BW pros and I like BW but I dont think they can compete yet with GSL pros (or even really good foreigners like stephano etc)
They can't even compete with the skill level shown by Team Liquid during GSTL this season. THey really are really not good, to the point where I'd like to turn off the stream during the SC2 version of proleague, but I still need to find out who wins. It's painful to watch. And to imagine that it will ONLY be that low level of play soon...
If there's any reason I'd like to see BW pros go over to SC2, it's the hope that they'll be good enough to partake in more tournaments overseas and such, but that could take months.
Could see it coming from a mile away, and was sorta confirmed already...but i cant help but feel sad. I guess osl is gonna be a direct competitor to code S now, which will be interesting to see.
This is no real surprise as it was only a matter of time before they annoucned the news...but it still feels awful to know that the best game in esports is losing its last bastion and fading away...
For me SCII just does not have the same intensity and doesn't enthrall me in the same way.
Now what am I going to do at work when there's nothing to do?
It is a big mistake of the OSL not to work with the players that bring in the viewers. It's gonna be sad when it's two random SC2 pros in the OSL grand finals and barely any one in the audience.
On June 06 2012 15:32 J1.au wrote: It is a big mistake of the OSL not to work with the players that bring in the viewers. It's gonna be sad when it's two random SC2 pros in the OSL grand finals and barely any one in the audience.
Yeah, this too, there seem to be so many empty chairs during the proleague broadcasts. OSL isn't that bad as it's still only BW, but still, it's obvious that people really don't think that SC2 in Proleague is no fun.
To be honest, I'm more attached to JD, Stork, etc. than any Sc2 player, no matter which game they play, because I identify with how competitive and driven and talented they were at BW. They were the best in the world at the best RTS in the world. And Zergbong is a nice guy who has had good fortune and I wish him all the best, but knowing he was mediocre in BW just doesn't make me identify with him as much.
On June 06 2012 15:32 J1.au wrote: It is a big mistake of the OSL not to work with the players that bring in the viewers. It's gonna be sad when it's two random SC2 pros in the OSL grand finals and barely any one in the audience.
Assuming the Kespa pros don't catch up to the current pros within the next month, it's more than likely going to be known SC2 pros in the later stages of the tournament. The current GSL players bring with them an established fan-base that will show up and watch them play (as evidenced by the audience during GSL finals).
On June 06 2012 09:33 zyzq wrote: this seems like a big slap in the face to Kespa players because there is no way they can compete with the current SC2 players yet.
No, this is awesome. It will force the Kespa players to play doubly hard to catch up. This means better games overall.
I cannot wait for this, we're finally going to see GOM players vs Kespa players!!!!
On June 06 2012 15:32 J1.au wrote: It is a big mistake of the OSL not to work with the players that bring in the viewers. It's gonna be sad when it's two random SC2 pros in the OSL grand finals and barely any one in the audience.
Assuming the Kespa pros don't catch up to the current pros within the next month, it's more than likely going to be known SC2 pros in the later stages of the tournament. The current GSL players bring with them an established fan-base that will show up and watch them play (as evidenced by the audience during GSL finals).
They should still work with what they have at the moment and try to combine fan bases, instead you will see the players the current audience comes to see get dominated by either unknowns or players who were pretty terrible in BW. They should either make it a BW player only tourney this time or wait ½ a year with a SC2 OSL, so the BW players will not have to play 2 games at once
On June 06 2012 16:06 Jelleyicious wrote: Brood War wasn't given the send off it deserved...Still its really exciting to see two big leagues in korea again. Can't wait.
At least OGN politely stated this will be the last tournament and will finish it. MBC was just downright mean by cancelling the tournament after they ran their preliminaries.
On June 06 2012 16:06 Jelleyicious wrote: Brood War wasn't given the send off it deserved...Still its really exciting to see two big leagues in korea again. Can't wait.
At least OGN politely stated this will be the last tournament and will finish it. MBC was just downright mean by cancelling the tournament after they ran their preliminaries.
you mean after they finished the survivor, they were gearing up for Ro32 group selection.
On June 06 2012 09:33 zyzq wrote: this seems like a big slap in the face to Kespa players because there is no way they can compete with the current SC2 players yet.
No, this is awesome. It will force the Kespa players to play doubly hard to catch up. This means better games overall.
I cannot wait for this, we're finally going to see GOM players vs Kespa players!!!!
Doubt any of the kespa players will catch up, gameknowledge wise to the very best sc2 guys untill atleast season 2 of this "OSL".
After that, the advantage the current sc2 player has should be normalized..
On June 06 2012 15:32 J1.au wrote: It is a big mistake of the OSL not to work with the players that bring in the viewers. It's gonna be sad when it's two random SC2 pros in the OSL grand finals and barely any one in the audience.
Assuming the Kespa pros don't catch up to the current pros within the next month, it's more than likely going to be known SC2 pros in the later stages of the tournament. The current GSL players bring with them an established fan-base that will show up and watch them play (as evidenced by the audience during GSL finals).
They should still work with what they have at the moment and try to combine fan bases, instead you will see the players the current audience comes to see get dominated by either unknowns or players who were pretty terrible in BW. They should either make it a BW player only tourney this time or wait ½ a year with a SC2 OSL, so the BW players will not have to play 2 games at once
If you are OGN and you have potential to run the 2nd biggest SC2 tournament in the world (with location and money its easily posible) on first try why would you pass that up to show inferior play which people wont watch? BW fans wont watch it because its not BW and SC2 fans wont watch it because the play is bad. That leaves you with people who are just fans of players and if they are fans of one player they can show there early round games meshed in with other players so they can become fans of theres as well.
On June 06 2012 09:27 Boblhead wrote: i thought they already mentioned that the next osl/spl were going to be exclusively sc2. not big news.
Itøs big news that the league is not limited to KeSPA players
Well, they did talk about opening up OSL during the eSports Transition Conference.
[11:28] For OSL, what happens to players not in KeSPA membership?
Mr. Lee: For my personal opinion would be having KeSPA, GSTL, and amateurs to compete in OSL. I haven't talked this out with Gretech yet, so no details can be given at the moment.
Aww I was looking forward to a hybrid BW/sc2 tournament. Just kidding. This is how SPL should have happened. Would have made the last season more epic.
according to the ELEPHANT mentality the kespa players should be good enough to make all "original" sc2 players look like a circus act by next season right? Or has that whole group of the community that believed the ELEPHANT talk eaten their words already?
It will be interesting to see consistent performers and even champions of the OSL be knocked out of the prelims by individuals who would barely have scratched the surface. The b-teamers have inherited the premiere Korean league... at least for the time being. No anger from my POV... but I'd imagine BW A-teamers must be seething.
The broodwar fan in me is very sad but the sc2 fan in me is happy. Soooo yay I guess..
On June 06 2012 16:52 Surgical_Strike wrote: according to the ELEPHANT mentality the kespa players should be good enough to make all "original" sc2 players look like a circus act by next season right? Or has that whole group of the community that believed the ELEPHANT talk eaten their words already?
I fear for the skill level in BW SPL from here out. With everything switching to SC2, there is no reason for BW gamers to even touch the game.
In a way, I am super excited because now jd/flash/bisu will be focusing 100% on starcraft 2; however, it will be hard to let go of BW. A game that has been a part of my life for over a decade.
Yeah, those are my feelings as well. It's kind of sad to see BW go, even as someone who started with SC2. It is the game that started it all, after all. But, on the other hand, that brings a lot of new players with huge potential to SC2. So, that's pretty awesome too.
GoodBye BW! And Congrats SC2. Even though i did not follow the bw scene it is still sad for me bec this is such a good game. But Times change and we must go with the flow. And this is for the survivial of Starcraft esports as well. Outside korea almost no one plays BW bec they prefer games with much better graphics. So I think it is just about time :D
Ive been wondering for quite a while whether its a good idea to let legit sc2 players play. I'm pretty sure that bw pros, or at least most of em won''t be ready to compete with sc2 pros by that time. On one hand its obvious that they need bigger player pool and some quality of games, but on the other hand GSL still will be king and OGN's only upperhand - the bw hype - will disappear if their players will get owned by sc2 pros. Unless the players close the gap.
Bad idea to allow SC2 pros to play against the BW pros in the first SC2 season. It will end up in all the former BW stars getting roflstomped. Second SC2 season, sure, let them compete, but for now the skill difference is still far too huge and i don't think it will change enough within the next 1-2 month.
fuck ongamenet probably thanks still for lasting so long despite all this marketing shit around SC2. SC2 not bad game but too much taken from BW and still even then couldn't supersede it. BW will always be #1 in my mind.
Hope for new BW showmatches, when SC2 will be running, though. One does not just walk into mordor forget something that has been around for fucking ETERNITY.
Showmatches gogogo! Come on Ongamenet, you can't not do it.
Hmm... seems to me that it will be mostly GSL players if they hold qualifiers of any sort. Not many of the BW pros are good enough yet... they have time I suppose... How long till this would start? That time could make a huge difference.
On June 06 2012 16:52 Surgical_Strike wrote: according to the ELEPHANT mentality the kespa players should be good enough to make all "original" sc2 players look like a circus act by next season right? Or has that whole group of the community that believed the ELEPHANT talk eaten their words already?
That's just ugly.
I don't think anyone actually thought the BW players would go straight from BW to dominating SC2. Mostly they were jokes, or people saying that they had what it took for them to become big. And we have yet to see.
I'd rather have them play BW for two-three more years. :<
On June 06 2012 17:14 figq wrote: Perhaps we as a foreign community should also honor this End of an Era with some event similar to the series of legends showmatches by OGN.
How about a BW tournament with all famous foreigners in BW? Eg: Grrr, Elky, Idra, Nony, Ret, Day[9], Tasteless, Artosis, Incontrol etc. Could be epic?
Doubt that's a good idea. Grrr and Elky doesn't even play anymore, and I'm fairly certain the rest haven't touched BW for more than half an hour since SC2 was released. It would be like watching players at C+ battle it out or something.
It will be a total chaos. How will Flash, Jaedong or Stork feel when somes like MVP, Nestea or DRG, some B-teamers at best in BW will win OSL ? And another is the popularity factor. Crowds in PL seems non existent while for BW in OSL it's always crowded. This is pretty depressive.
On June 06 2012 09:27 monitor wrote: OMG YES CAN'T WAIT!!! It's happening
Why? Isn't there a lot of premier SC2 tournaments already? Why is it so special to you that OnGameNet Starleague switches now? You do not have a single post in any of the Brood War forums so it can't be because you have any history with OSL and wants to see a new angle to it. You are simply some guy who has heard of it, so excuse me for wondering why you are so overjoyed that the last bastion for Brood War fans all over the world has now fallen.
On June 06 2012 16:52 Surgical_Strike wrote: according to the ELEPHANT mentality the kespa players should be good enough to make all "original" sc2 players look like a circus act by next season right? Or has that whole group of the community that believed the ELEPHANT talk eaten their words already?
That's just ugly.
I don't think anyone actually thought the BW players would go straight from BW to dominating SC2. Mostly they were jokes, or people saying that they had what it took for them to become big. And we have yet to see.
I'd rather have them play BW for two-three more years. :<
kind of sad really, they should restrict at leas the first season of it to broodwar players only. You'd want to at least give them a chance to switch fully after proleague ends before opening it up to everyone else. Feels like at this rate there would be maybe one or two kespa players tops who qualify if any.
very sad for all the BW fans, if I knew competetive SC2 would be finished in a month I would be crushed ;___; I feel like the hybrid league has been pretty uninspiring, I dont understand BW enough to enjoy those games and the SC2 was just bad. Doesn't seem like a proper send off. Even though I never followed BW I was always aware what a big deal it was and how much depth there was to the scene, and I have huge respect for the players and how they built and inspired the scene that I love. I hope some BW cynics will give SC2 a chance to develop - in a year or two you might be happy you stuck with it and hopefully a lot of the good things about the scene will be preserved. GG BW.
I understand people worrying that that the BW pros will not stand a chance in the new OSL but people are right to say it needs to be the highest quality to compete. I don't want to watch a league just for the names - the novelty wears off after a few games and you're just left with substandard play. The best players will no doubt catch up within a few months, so what does it matter if they can't really compete this time round?
On the upside it's great news for SC2 fans that we will be getting another Korean league. The foreign market may be a bit oversaturated but in Korea GSL just can't provide enough content on its own, especially towards the later stages. I imagine we will see more Koreans staying at home rather than going to foreign tournaments since they'll have a lot less free time. I hope the high OSL production values will carry over and that there will be some healthy competition with GSL
Great, great news for SC2, but for BW? Farewell, old friend
Anyways, it's still a better transition than what Proleague did. And since foreigners are able to participate, maybe it will be streamed on more reasonable hours than 3 am CEST. Let's see if SC2 will outrun LoL in viewer numbers now and Carmac will be proven wrong (he said that LoL will outlive SC2)
Very cool, hope they can capture the OSL magic and bring it to SC2, though I do believe it will, at least for the first one here, be primarily GSL players that can compete. From what I've seen, the BW pros are still a way off from competing with the established SC2 player base.
SC2 transition is expected, but allowing non-BW players to play on the first season is huge.
There is absolutely no way in hell that the BW players can catch up to the korean SC2 pros in such a short period of time. I was hoping for one SC2 season for BW players only, to give them more time. This way they'll get crushed and the fanbase will wander off in disappointment.
On June 06 2012 09:47 fabiano wrote: That's fucking retarded, but we all knew that stupid crap was coming anyway.
Maybe in 10 years SC2 will be half as good as BW was and watching a game of it won't be boring as fuck.
Also, of course:
Congratulations SC2 fans! Yet another SC2 tournament to follow. How many are there already? Dreamhack, MLG, IPL, IEM, fake SPL and fake OSL, that's at least 6 major tournaments. (edit: to clarify, this is not sarcasm)
I'm fucking mad about this stupid shit, but I sincerely hope that SC2 can become something much better than it is today. Hope that in 3 years I will look back and say that I was overreacting and that SC2 wasn't the shit I thought it was.
Unfortunately you won't look back and find it better than you thought it was, since you've already decided that you dislike the game :/
On June 06 2012 16:52 Surgical_Strike wrote: according to the ELEPHANT mentality the kespa players should be good enough to make all "original" sc2 players look like a circus act by next season right? Or has that whole group of the community that believed the ELEPHANT talk eaten their words already?
That's just ugly.
I don't think anyone actually thought the BW players would go straight from BW to dominating SC2. Mostly they were jokes, or people saying that they had what it took for them to become big. And we have yet to see.
I'd rather have them play BW for two-three more years. :<
We found it out after yesterday's ro16 tiebreakers ended with a short montage and a message 'Last Champion'. Which is very ironic considering the motto of the ODT was 'New Beginning, Not the End'. Not the end my ass
And now the third and final pillar of professional BW crumbles into dust. Words cannot describe the sadness and emptiness inside T_T If only I had more money I could go and watch the finals live on 28.07
Hope this unites both communities and hopefully with the release of Hots and coming of kespa players, BW fans will accept this and join the SC2 larger community!
On June 06 2012 09:23 nokz88 wrote: - Both KeSPA players and original SC2 players will be able to participate in this new league
#sick
Probably going to see a code b player win it.
Probably not. There are not that many big guns in Code B. I can´t think of any really good player dropping out of Code A recently. Life COULD win it but probably won´t.
On June 06 2012 09:23 nokz88 wrote: - Both KeSPA players and original SC2 players will be able to participate in this new league
#sick
Probably going to see a code b player win it.
Probably not. There are not that many big guns in Code B. I can´t think of any really good player dropping out of Code A recently. Life COULD win it but probably won´t.
this is something we've known for a long time. but if you think this is good news for sc2, it's not - sc2 is beginning to go down the same path already.
you will never reach the heights of the golden 2004-2008 age of BW - the best game ever created. sc2 wont even get anywhere close.
On June 06 2012 20:01 shadymmj wrote: this is something we've known for a long time. but if you think this is good news for sc2, it's not - sc2 is beginning to go down the same path already.
you will never reach the heights of the golden 2004-2008 age of BW - the best game ever created. sc2 wont even get anywhere close.
You're talking like a disgruntled witch from a disney movie, chill.
On June 06 2012 20:01 shadymmj wrote: this is something we've known for a long time. but if you think this is good news for sc2, it's not - sc2 is beginning to go down the same path already.
you will never reach the heights of the golden 2004-2008 age of BW - the best game ever created. sc2 wont even get anywhere close.
On June 06 2012 20:01 shadymmj wrote: this is something we've known for a long time. but if you think this is good news for sc2, it's not - sc2 is beginning to go down the same path already.
you will never reach the heights of the golden 2004-2008 age of BW - the best game ever created. sc2 wont even get anywhere close.
R I P
you realize that you're posting on the SC2 section of TL right?
On June 06 2012 20:01 shadymmj wrote: this is something we've known for a long time. but if you think this is good news for sc2, it's not - sc2 is beginning to go down the same path already.
you will never reach the heights of the golden 2004-2008 age of BW - the best game ever created. sc2 wont even get anywhere close.
R I P
Can't wait to see koreans purely dominating over cash filled tournament out there and than we will see foreigners whining that the game is not good enough for them . Wcg korean dominance was something to be proud of and I can't wait for it to happen again . This is good for sc2 .
sawamura the moment the foreigners give up from getting steamrolled too much, most of the sc2 "community" will move on to next shiny new game. dota 2, lol 2, titan (?) whatever...
The first half of this leauge is gonna be bad lol. We gonna watch GSL code S players rip the shit outta the former brood war pros. It'll be like watching open bracket games at MLG
On June 06 2012 21:07 shadymmj wrote: sawamura the moment the foreigners give up from getting steamrolled too much, most of the sc2 "community" will move on to next shiny new game. dota 2, lol 2, titan (?) whatever...
I know right ? History will always repeat it self as always in the starcraft universe.
Damn... all those years spent with Broodwar... Granted, I didn't watch that much Broodwar anymore since the SC2 beta but still... Thanks for the 5 (7-ish) years of some of the most fun times I've ever had, you will never be forgotten!
On June 06 2012 20:01 shadymmj wrote: this is something we've known for a long time. but if you think this is good news for sc2, it's not - sc2 is beginning to go down the same path already.
you will never reach the heights of the golden 2004-2008 age of BW - the best game ever created. sc2 wont even get anywhere close.
R I P
Good thing you can tell how the future will look like!
I really really hope that Kespa players become great players of sc2. I really want that the big names still remaing as a true champions and not as a shadow of a former hero, I really want that BW legacy persist in sc2 not just in the name but in the things that made BW big, I just want that the people support each other (pros, viewers, casters, teams, sponsors) for remember the original champions. It's sad that BW came to and end, but it will die like all the things in the world, just prepare ourselfs and each one of us make the proper respects, just make the single most huge farewell party with our last OSL, just embrace that feeling of sadness and sorrow and let us have faith in a better future. BW just bring me happiness so Im pretty gratefull with that game.
My brother is surely shedding tears, but for me this is really exciting. BW was always something regal and Shakespearean for me. It was epic in a very classical sense, but SC2 was my summer blockbusters and films waiting for me on Netflix. It is very exciting to see them merging. It is like everyone speaking Old English in Transformers 3.
On June 06 2012 21:44 blubbdavid wrote: That picture is the future of LoL
It's already happening! And that's the first major LoL tournament in Korea.
Those chairs look pretty empty to me, they're full near the front, but once you get to the middle and back it's like one person for every two or three chairs.
Interesting. LoL seems to be getting more attention than SC2. I think that's both a good and scary thing.
I think this is better in that at least the KESPA players can concentrate on playing one game. Professional Brood War lived a long and glorious life. It could have ended better than this hybrid proleague we're having though.
I think this is scary for the BW players. I'm firmly of the camp that BW and SC2 are different games. Some successful players in BW may not make it in SC2, even if they approach it with the same dedication.
On June 06 2012 21:44 blubbdavid wrote: That picture is the future of LoL
It's already happening! And that's the first major LoL tournament in Korea.
Those chairs look pretty empty to me, they're full near the front, but once you get to the middle and back it's like one person for every two or three chairs.
On June 06 2012 21:44 blubbdavid wrote: That picture is the future of LoL
It's already happening! And that's the first major LoL tournament in Korea.
Those chairs look pretty empty to me, they're full near the front, but once you get to the middle and back it's like one person for every two or three chairs.
Still larger than SC2 in Korea.
Guess what? GSL Code S finals were going on at the same time.
Guess which one got more attention.
Edit: Let me give you some statistics about that finals.
1. It got up 2.219% of males aged 19-24. 2. During the final, for almost an hour, it got an average of 1.861% of viewers and was the 2nd most watched program during that time. 3. People started lining up from 7 o'clock in the morning, and almost 8000 people maxed out the stadium. 4. During the finals, ongamenet became one of the most searched words on various Korean portal sites.
On June 06 2012 09:24 Holgerius wrote: Such depressing news. I mean, it's great for the Sc2 community, but it officially marks the death of pro BW.
Well, the funny thing is that this wasn't something the SC2 community (myself included) was waiting or looking forward to. My reaction is very much mild confusion. Well, it might be cool, on the other hand we have so many goddam tournaments and leagues around already.
I am actually astonished that "the" BW is actually coming to an end. I never knew much about it, other than that it was really big. I guess they just weren't taking in so much revenue after all.
The SC2 tournament field is going to be a very tough field to compete in, and it'll only get tougher. I am actually looking forward to what the rest of 2012 brings with quite some interest.
Oh well, guess i'll post only in the LoL section rather than watch the OSL evolve into this garbage. Hopefully we can keep our BW team signatures though -_-.
RIP BW.
On June 06 2012 19:32 Fleuria wrote: a sc2 player finally maybe winning a starleague?!?!
I doubt anyone is going to acknowledge them winning the OSL. Since it's not BW and they already have the GSL.
On June 06 2012 21:44 blubbdavid wrote: That picture is the future of LoL
It's already happening! And that's the first major LoL tournament in Korea.
Those chairs look pretty empty to me, they're full near the front, but once you get to the middle and back it's like one person for every two or three chairs.
Still larger than SC2 in Korea.
Guess what? GSL Code S finals were going on at the same time.
Guess which one got more attention.
Edit: Let me give you some statistics about that finals.
1. It got up 2.219% of males aged 19-24. 2. During the final, for almost an hour, it got an average of 1.861% of viewers and was the 2nd most watched program during that time. 3. People started lining up from 7 o'clock in the morning, and almost 8000 people maxed out the stadium. 4. During the finals, ongamenet became one of the most searched words on various Korean portal sites.
I don't think anyone will argue LoL is bigger than SC2 in Korea at the moment, but the Code S finals did have 2,000 people in the arena. It also has 700,000 VoD views on the GOMTV site. That's pretty damn good for a tournament that isn't on television in Korea and is primarily online. Also Squirtle and MVP, if I remember, were one of the most popular searches on a Korean portal site while the finals were going on.
I think this is smart by OGN. By announcing this is the LAST CHAMPION in Brood War history, even if the finals are hyvaa vs. Shine, they'll probably draw a 10,000+ crowd if they decide to go to a big venue. The hype and the legends match beforehand will make it one of the biggest finals they've ever had.
On June 06 2012 22:08 Oerbaa wrote: Are foreigners allowed to compete in the OSL, or is it purely Koreans ?
They will be allowed. The more interesting question is: Will they be able to qualify?
More like, will they be willing to go all out for it.
There's plenty of tournaments out there with very GSL level price money. There exists a continuing spectre of the foreigners simply not seeing GSL as worth it: It takes a lot of time (2 months per tournament), have to live in Korea, gets in the way of other tournaments. Is a huge amount of effort, because everyone has such long practise times to prepare for each set of games.
A few foreigners have made an appearance at the GSL, but it's been more a trickle than a splash. I see no reason why the OSL would not be 100% koreans.
Well I loved starcraft 1, I love the concept of starcraft in general. But now bw is officaly dead. So it is starcraft 2s job now to carry my passion. Sure hope it sucsseds and beats its former in terms of skill and enertainment. That is a very tall order though that I somehow doubt it is going to achive.
Even so if starcraft is to be officaly over for me and some of us, at least in the playing aspect, there are other skillfull games out there. And there are also other things in life I found
Also the guys that think sc2 isnt hard enough compared to sc1 you are ther good guys. You guys help e-sports be a sport and not some platform for companies to advartise their shit on cuz the players will watch it. If the future of e-sports are games like LoL then that is not a sport. Bacouse noone will watch that without playing it. And people watch football even though they dont play it. Also there is to little skill involved.
So happy this is happening. It's just ridiculous to keep the current BW pros practising two games. We can finally see their true skill level in SC2 if they're just solely practising it.
Ideally I'd like it if BW and SC2 continued on as different games because clearly the BW players are superior and downright incredible at BW compared to SC2 players who usually quit it to try a newer game. I guess it's just the climate of e-sports now with more LoL primarily and also SC2 being more popular while people are just less interested in BW.
Mixed feelings... Even if I'm not a long-time BW fan I feel kinda sad, but the good point is now Mvp will be able to win OSLs and after he wins two or three we'll be able to eventually call him the first sc2 bonjwa XD
On June 06 2012 23:20 arb wrote: Oh well, guess i'll post only in the LoL section rather than watch the OSL evolve into this garbage. Hopefully we can keep our BW team signatures though -_-.
On June 06 2012 19:32 Fleuria wrote: a sc2 player finally maybe winning a starleague?!?!
I doubt anyone is going to acknowledge them winning the OSL. Since it's not BW and they already have the GSL.
GSL is not the same as OSL, though. There were 9 seasons of GSL in 2011, and I believe there will be 6 in 2012. Pretty different form a twice-a-year event (or is it three OSLs a year?)
On June 06 2012 09:24 Holgerius wrote: Such depressing news. I mean, it's great for the Sc2 community, but it officially marks the death of pro BW.
Well, the funny thing is that this wasn't something the SC2 community (myself included) was waiting or looking forward to. My reaction is very much mild confusion. Well, it might be cool, on the other hand we have so many goddam tournaments and leagues around already.
I am actually astonished that "the" BW is actually coming to an end. I never knew much about it, other than that it was really big. I guess they just weren't taking in so much revenue after all.
The SC2 tournament field is going to be a very tough field to compete in, and it'll only get tougher. I am actually looking forward to what the rest of 2012 brings with quite some interest.
As a SC2 fan, I'm more disappointed by the end of professional BW than anything else. SC2 is already flooded with players and events, and while it may be cool to see BW players try to establish themselves in SC2, that's not worth the end of BW.
Can't believe this is the end of BW Sad moment, although its going to be nice seeing a second sc2 tournament in korea and how the KeSPA situation (i.e. how controlling players will carry over to sc2) will look like in some time.
I have really mixed feelings because I don't think this was a natural progression of events. SC2 didn't really succeed BW in any material way, by getting more viewers or being the more popular game (in korea). It seemed to all have happened in back rooms between Blizzard and Kespa.
SC2 just isn't that popular in Korea, I feel this transition at this time is a move from Blizzard rather than Kespa thinking it's the right time to switch. BW is waning but still more popular, and SC2 is not the thing that's growing in Korea, it's LoL.
I feel like for Kespa this is more opportunistic than anything. Take Blizzard's money for SC2, all the while they really have their sights set on the expansion of LoL.
Maybe I'm wrong but that's the vibe I get. BW is slowly dying, I accept that, and instead of a slow decay they grab some Blizzard money, and pretend to make an effort with SC2.
Also, can we please stop with the "SC2 is not as popular as BW" thing? Dont you know what your saying??? How come you did not say SC1 (not BW)? Why cant you wait till at least one expo comes out for sc2? Then we can see how popular it can become. Of course it wont be popular yet, just like how BW was more popular than non-BW. When hots comes out, I am sure it will become much more popular.
On June 07 2012 00:16 Bareleon wrote: Also, can we please stop with the "SC2 is not as popular as BW" thing? Dont you know what your saying??? How come you did not say SC1 (not BW)? Why cant you wait till at least one expo comes out for sc2? Then we can see how popular it can become. Of course it wont be popular yet, just like how BW was more popular than non-BW. When hots comes out, I am sure it will become much more popular.
On June 06 2012 23:57 floor exercise wrote: I have really mixed feelings because I don't think this was a natural progression of events. SC2 didn't really succeed BW in any material way, by getting more viewers or being the more popular game (in korea). It seemed to all have happened in back rooms between Blizzard and Kespa.
SC2 just isn't that popular in Korea, I feel this transition at this time is a move from Blizzard rather than Kespa thinking it's the right time to switch. BW is waning but still more popular, and SC2 is not the thing that's growing in Korea, it's LoL.
I feel like for Kespa this is more opportunistic than anything. Take Blizzard's money for SC2, all the while they really have their sights set on the expansion of LoL.
Maybe I'm wrong but that's the vibe I get. BW is slowly dying, I accept that, and instead of a slow decay they grab some Blizzard money, and pretend to make an effort with SC2.
So there may be some foreigners trying out for the next StarLeague? Cool! If the competition is just BW players the standard won't be as high as GSL yet as BW players are still getting up to speed with SC2. Any idea on the prize-money, qualification system and tournament format?
Stephano is going to Korea fairly soon. Presumably to GSL but he may give this a go depending on scheduling.
On June 07 2012 00:23 revel8 wrote: So there may be some foreigners trying out for the next StarLeague? Cool! If the competition is just BW players the standard won't be as high as GSL yet as BW players are still getting up to speed with SC2. Any idea on the prize-money, qualification system and tournament format?
Stephano is going to Korea fairly soon. Presumably to GSL but he may give this a go depending on scheduling.
Oh yes plz, Stephano winning the first sc2 OSL, a la Grrrr...
On June 07 2012 00:15 archonOOid wrote: prize pool and player pool? As they are unknown ill stick to the 96%...
nobody cares about the prize pool of the OSL, its always been about the prestige.
You may be correct but SC2 has tournaments with cash prizes - like GSL. So to compete with those tournaments, money becomes an issue. Talent follows the money. That might be towards OSL or away.
On June 07 2012 00:16 Bareleon wrote: Also, can we please stop with the "SC2 is not as popular as BW" thing? Dont you know what your saying??? How come you did not say SC1 (not BW)? Why cant you wait till at least one expo comes out for sc2? Then we can see how popular it can become. Of course it wont be popular yet, just like how BW was more popular than non-BW. When hots comes out, I am sure it will become much more popular.
Broodwar came so soon after SC1 that people dont even acknowledge SC1 for the most part.
On June 07 2012 00:15 archonOOid wrote: prize pool and player pool? As they are unknown ill stick to the 96%...
nobody cares about the prize pool of the OSL, its always been about the prestige.
You may be correct but SC2 has tournaments with cash prizes - like GSL. So to compete with those tournaments, money becomes an issue. Talent follows the money. That might be towards OSL or away.
40 million Won for the winner and 20 million Won for the runner-up. The other players who make it into the OSL get prize money too. Players also get bonus payments from their teams if they do well.
It's sad to see Brood War go. I only got to the scene right at the end, but I wish I had been here longer. I can only hope that a glorious foreigner victory is the result of the very first SC2 OSL.
On June 07 2012 00:15 archonOOid wrote: prize pool and player pool? As they are unknown ill stick to the 96%...
nobody cares about the prize pool of the OSL, its always been about the prestige.
You may be correct but SC2 has tournaments with cash prizes - like GSL. So to compete with those tournaments, money becomes an issue. Talent follows the money. That might be towards OSL or away.
40 million Won for the winner and 20 million Won for the runner-up. The other players who make it into the OSL get prize money too. Players also get bonus payments from their teams if they do well.
OK, thank you.
So that is ~ 34,000 USD for the winner plus half that for the runner up. Significant prize money.
On June 06 2012 23:20 arb wrote: Oh well, guess i'll post only in the LoL section rather than watch the OSL evolve into this garbage. Hopefully we can keep our BW team signatures though -_-.
On June 07 2012 00:15 archonOOid wrote: prize pool and player pool? As they are unknown ill stick to the 96%...
nobody cares about the prize pool of the OSL, its always been about the prestige.
You may be correct but SC2 has tournaments with cash prizes - like GSL. So to compete with those tournaments, money becomes an issue. Talent follows the money. That might be towards OSL or away.
40 million Won for the winner and 20 million Won for the runner-up. The other players who make it into the OSL get prize money too. Players also get bonus payments from their teams if they do well.
OK, thank you.
So that is ~ 34,000 USD for the winner plus half that for the runner up. Significant prize money.
Yes, it's a decent prize, but OSL has always been about prestige, not about money. Flash, for example, made pretty much 10x an OSL prize on a yearly basis, and yet he still wanted to win them because it was prestigious. It's just like how professional sports teams want to win trophy X even though the bonus from it might be less than their actual salary. Being crowned world champion is a pretty big deal, and that's sorta like what OSLs were in BW.
On June 06 2012 23:20 arb wrote: Oh well, guess i'll post only in the LoL section rather than watch the OSL evolve into this garbage. Hopefully we can keep our BW team signatures though -_-.
RIP BW.
On June 06 2012 19:32 Fleuria wrote: a sc2 player finally maybe winning a starleague?!?!
I doubt anyone is going to acknowledge them winning the OSL. Since it's not BW and they already have the GSL.
If I posted something like this in the BW section attacking BW I would be perma banned and would probably have a parcel bomb mailed to me from TL HQ.
Fuck you.
Nope You are wrong don't need to rely on harsh language to get your message through.
On June 07 2012 00:16 Bareleon wrote: Also, can we please stop with the "SC2 is not as popular as BW" thing? Dont you know what your saying??? How come you did not say SC1 (not BW)? Why cant you wait till at least one expo comes out for sc2? Then we can see how popular it can become. Of course it wont be popular yet, just like how BW was more popular than non-BW. When hots comes out, I am sure it will become much more popular.
Okay nostradamus 2.0 I will take you word on it .
I did not mean it will become more popular than BW. It may someday or it may never. What I meant was it should become more popular world wide especially among Koreans. Of course that is obviously just speculation.
But what could stop it is, what I still believe to this day are two fundamental flaws: still hard to see whats going on in a sc2 match, and some building/unit designs, especially some protoss buildings, are boring to look at it.
On June 07 2012 00:16 Bareleon wrote: Also, can we please stop with the "SC2 is not as popular as BW" thing? Dont you know what your saying??? How come you did not say SC1 (not BW)? Why cant you wait till at least one expo comes out for sc2? Then we can see how popular it can become. Of course it wont be popular yet, just like how BW was more popular than non-BW. When hots comes out, I am sure it will become much more popular.
Okay nostradamus 2.0 I will take you word on it .
I did not mean it will become more popular than BW. It may someday or it may never. What I meant was it should become more popular world wide especially among Koreans. Of course that is obviously just speculation.
But what could stop it is, what I still believe to this day are two fundamental flaws: still hard to see whats going on in a sc2 match, and some building/unit designs, especially some protoss buildings, are boring to look at it.
So what will you do if hots doesn't change this flaws that you stated ?
On June 07 2012 00:15 archonOOid wrote: prize pool and player pool? As they are unknown ill stick to the 96%...
nobody cares about the prize pool of the OSL, its always been about the prestige.
You may be correct but SC2 has tournaments with cash prizes - like GSL. So to compete with those tournaments, money becomes an issue. Talent follows the money. That might be towards OSL or away.
40 million Won for the winner and 20 million Won for the runner-up. The other players who make it into the OSL get prize money too. Players also get bonus payments from their teams if they do well.
OK, thank you.
So that is ~ 34,000 USD for the winner plus half that for the runner up. Significant prize money.
Yes, it's a decent prize, but OSL has always been about prestige, not about money. Flash, for example, made pretty much 10x an OSL prize on a yearly basis, and yet he still wanted to win them because it was prestigious. It's just like how professional sports teams want to win trophy X even though the bonus from it might be less than their actual salary. Being crowned world champion is a pretty big deal, and that's sorta like what OSLs were in BW.
OK, thank you. I don't know anything about BW scene, so info is appreciated.
I understand top BW Pros have very big contracts, however these will only be maintained going forward if KESPA and it's teams manages to maintain a large proportion of the Korean BW fanbase in the transition over to SC2. In other words, Korean fans en masse have to follow the teams into SC2. If they don't, then it becomes less viable for these lucrative players contracts to be maintained if the fanbase/profile in SC2 Korean scene does not support it because it is smaller than the Korean BW scene. I am not sure what will happen if the Korean BW fans do NOT embrace SC2 after the switch.
On June 06 2012 23:57 floor exercise wrote: I have really mixed feelings because I don't think this was a natural progression of events. SC2 didn't really succeed BW in any material way, by getting more viewers or being the more popular game (in korea). It seemed to all have happened in back rooms between Blizzard and Kespa.
SC2 just isn't that popular in Korea, I feel this transition at this time is a move from Blizzard rather than Kespa thinking it's the right time to switch. BW is waning but still more popular, and SC2 is not the thing that's growing in Korea, it's LoL.
This is how it's always been in eSports, endless transition, to a hopefully at least somehow decent successor. Sometimes less so and sometimes more. BW in Korea is really rather unique in having been able to go against it for so long. I followed FPS dueling for a long time myself so seeing it go through transitions between games such as Q3, Q4, Painkiller, QL.
Because of that I don't find a forced BW transition all that unusual except for the fact that the changes were more incremental instead of a huge jump like BW to SC2 is, just because it managed to have such a long run. I suppose it was uniquely independent from game developers and hardware manufacturers to accomplish that feat.
No matter how good it is there are always those that dislike the replacement game. And rightfully so because they have their unique beautiful features. Sadly, for now there seems to be no way out of these inevitable transitions. I haven't enjoyed all the games I listed as much as the others either, but I do think it still beats the genre dying completely. FPS duel is pretty close to that now even if there's still Dreamhack & 2GD to keep it barely breathing.
And now the newest transition seems like it might be to Shootmania, which is a really far cry from Quake Live dueling. When it looked like there wouldn't even be that, I turned to SC2 and found it enjoyable to watch even though nothing like Quake (pretty much only similarity is that it's 1v1) and with none of the old heroes I had there.
Then again, even traditional sports change over time as the rules are modified and technology advances. The changes just stay smaller.
well shit another tourney i have to pay for (assuming)
how the hell did they manage to allow non kespa and kespa players to play with each other? does this mean kespa might allow them to play in the gsl too?
Nail in the coffin of an institution that was Brood War and it's legacy. So sad to see this happen. Oh well, hf sc2 crowd. I'm pretty sure that once the KeSPA players get a bit more trained in sc2 you'll get to see some really good games going on.
On June 07 2012 00:49 SolidMustard wrote: I believe that what will help sc2's popularity in Korea is more Kespa transitioning than hots coming out but that's just my two cents
I think SC2's general popularity is actually relatively high globally with more casual players, but the hardcore has the massive divide that is only starting to be bridged by some.
I kind of think that either with HoTS or LotV, SC2 needs to be opened up a bit more to the general community. Better connectivity, anti-hacking, more ladders, map testing, etc.
Also, we need to find a way to cut this BW/SC2 infighting out. Its okay to be a fan of one game without having to trash and deprecate the other. More importantly, I think a lot of these flair ups occur when people sort of talk crap directly at the other community as proxy for thier dislike of the game.
Its a fundamental issue I'm seeing a lot of in TL where people do not seem to be able to or want to distinguish between constructive and respective critisim/input, and raw flame bait whining and raging. So much unnecessary drama and shit could be avoided if people took 5 seconds to think before hitting the post button.
On June 07 2012 00:54 danson wrote: well shit another tourney i have to pay for (assuming)
how the hell did they manage to allow non kespa and kespa players to play with each other? does this mean kespa might allow them to play in the gsl too?
you're never going to have to pay to watch osl/proleague...
Times they are a-changing, but this (along with all the other stuff that has happened since the release of sc2) really just makes me a tiny bit emotional. You know, it's just never gonna be the same, never gonna be as glorious, as special. Not that there's anything to do about this, but memories seem to stick.
Sad that these are the last events of BW, now lets see if these tournaments can catch up to the rest of the SC2 world in terms of quality in one season. The money is there, the experience is there now lets see what happens.
- After 13 years of history and 34 editions, Tving StarLeague 2012 will be the last BroodWar OSL
- Starting next season, OSL will be a SC2 league
- Both KeSPA players and original SC2 players will be able to participate in this new league EDIT: Let me clarify. Direct quote from the original source:
On June 07 2012 01:23 Balgrog wrote: Sad that these are the last events of BW, now lets see if these tournaments can catch up to the rest of the SC2 world in terms of quality in one season. The money is there, the experience is there now lets see what happens.
I think that there are two aspects of experience, one which OSL absolutely has and another which, well....not so much.
OSL and KeSPA-involved tournaments in general are known for really great casting quality and excitement (even if the video quality is horrible), but the players are not going to have the SC2 experience. The GSL and foreign players will be able to dominate this next OSL for a while I think.
As always, it's sad that BW is dying off, but we sorta expected it to happen eventually. I hope with the increased competition (and, really, SC2's own advancements in competition) that it can start to measure up to the scale of BW.
End of an ERA. Thank you so much BroodWar, KESPA and all the greatest players competing in that game! We shall never forget you! May be one day we shall meet again. Farewell...
We knew it was coming...but fuck........... People have to understand as well, that prestige is what makes OSL the premier league, not the prize money. Wonder will that prestige will maintain in this bloody switch....or people just interested in the prize pool for it to be prestigious (my impression of the SC2 people).
Not something I wanted to see after coming back to take a look at TL.
Thanks for the good times from 2008-2011; love the passion from the BW fans, especially during the 2010-2011 season when everyone stepped up to support the scene during the lawsuit. Rebel league FTW
Guess I'm done with Starcraft in general, I prefer WC3 laddering when I'm bored over SC2 :\
Best of luck to the players, at this point I just hope the ones that stuck with BW are able to live with the changes well, they deserve that much at least.
End of an era, probably the only one of its kind since it's now proven that no game can last since the new, shinier games will replace it eventually.
I wonder what kind of send-off SC2 will receive when SC3 is released?
On June 07 2012 01:23 Balgrog wrote: Sad that these are the last events of BW, now lets see if these tournaments can catch up to the rest of the SC2 world in terms of quality in one season. The money is there, the experience is there now lets see what happens.
I think that there are two aspects of experience, one which OSL absolutely has and another which, well....not so much.
OSL and KeSPA-involved tournaments in general are known for really great casting quality and excitement (even if the video quality is horrible), but the players are not going to have the SC2 experience. The GSL and foreign players will be able to dominate this next OSL for a while I think.
Having the next OSL be dominated by SC2 players does set up a good story though. Who will be the first BW star to break thru? How far can he continue his run? Even if it doesnt happen at this OSL it sets the stage for future OSLs.
Well, i'm really happy for a new starcraft2 league with kespa/gsl/foreigner players but i'm so sad about the end of the OSL for broodwar :'( I'm just crying and dying a little bit inside :'(
On June 07 2012 01:50 Black[CAT] wrote: We knew it was coming...but fuck........... People have to understand as well, that prestige is what makes OSL the premier league, not the prize money. Wonder will that prestige will maintain in this bloody switch....or people just interested in the prize pool for it to be prestigious (my impression of the SC2 people).
SC2's most presitigious league is GSL. It is the most presitigious league because it has by far the highest skill level - and the only way to change that, is if a league sports a higher level of play constantly. It won't change to a league just because it is older or has a longer history, and a league that has a higher price pool but worse competition won't be as presitigious. That's at least how I see it, and I guess the majority of "the SC2 people" would agree. Also, your condescending tone towards the fanbase of this game is driving me mad. There is so much hate and arrogant behavior on display in this thread it's a shame. We all can symphathize with the loss of your hobby, but ffs cut the elitist remarks!
OnGameNet plans to hold an individual level Starcraft II league in July. They would like to make it as open as possible so that anyone can compete, whether they are KeSPA, GomTV, and even amateur players.
Seeing how BW pros were already switching practice to SC2 because of Proleague, hoping that OSL be kept running as a BW league along with a new SC2 league was just wishful thinking. And of course they would continue to use the name "OSL", as it is an established and recognizable brand name for OGN.
So my question is this: If Boxer goes into the SC2 OSL and wins one, is he still eligible for a Golden Mouse, since it would be technically be his third OSL win?
On June 07 2012 04:17 SoraLimit wrote: So my question is this: If Boxer goes into the SC2 OSL and wins one, is he still eligible for a Golden Mouse, since it would be technically be his third OSL win?
It is a sad and a very happy news. The sad part is, that BW is basicly beeing put to rest. The good news is, that OSL will be played by all SC2 progamers. The GSL just got competition for the most prestigious league in SC2. Maybe now GSL will try to up their production value (streams).
We all knew this is coming but that doesn't make this news hurt any less. The OSL is the most prestigious SC tournament in the world and I hope OGN makes as smooth as possible transition so as not to tarnish, in any way, its prestige, integrity and history.
On June 07 2012 04:33 marcelluspye wrote: I was hoping that they would cancel the OSL with this one and then just make a new league with a different name, to preserve OSL for BW. But whatever.
I hope they not only retire the wall of champions, but also the trophy and maybe even the name like some others have been saying.... the OSL is a hollowed championship, where winning one is an achievement, and winning three makes you a legend... SC2 needs to make its own history not piggyback on BW's legacy.
On June 07 2012 04:33 marcelluspye wrote: I was hoping that they would cancel the OSL with this one and then just make a new league with a different name, to preserve OSL for BW. But whatever.
i wish they did that too >_<
And how should they call it?
OnGameNets Star(not BW) League - OSnBWL? It's OnGameNets League about Starcraft, so not much of a choice in names...
On June 07 2012 04:33 marcelluspye wrote: I was hoping that they would cancel the OSL with this one and then just make a new league with a different name, to preserve OSL for BW. But whatever.
i wish they did that too >_<
And how should they call it?
OnGameNets Star(not BW) League - OSnBWL? It's OnGameNets League about Starcraft, so not much of a choice in names...
Easy. OnGameNet Starcraft 2 League. I suppose you can still simplify it as OSL, much like GSL (Global Starcraft 2 League).
Of course, Starleague is OGN's flagship league and brand name; there's no way they'd just drop it now. But it'd be nice. It'd be nice if they could do it that much justice and retire it all. The name, the records, the awards, the games, the wall of honor, the legacy. Just start anew.
On June 07 2012 04:33 marcelluspye wrote: I was hoping that they would cancel the OSL with this one and then just make a new league with a different name, to preserve OSL for BW. But whatever.
i wish they did that too >_<
And how should they call it?
OnGameNets Star(not BW) League - OSnBWL? It's OnGameNets League about Starcraft, so not much of a choice in names...
Easy. OnGameNet Starcraft 2 League. I suppose you can still simplify it as OSL, much like GSL (Global Starcraft 2 League).
Of course, Starleague is OGN's flagship league and brand name; there's no way they'd just drop it now. But it'd be nice. It'd be nice if they could do it that much justice and retire it all. The name, the records, the awards, the games, the wall of honor, the legacy. Just start anew.
really? is starcraft 2 that bad that it would bring the brand of OSL down? That feels like a bit of a slap in the face tbh and I personally see no point in it either.
On June 06 2012 21:44 blubbdavid wrote: That picture is the future of LoL
It's already happening! And that's the first major LoL tournament in Korea.
Those chairs look pretty empty to me, they're full near the front, but once you get to the middle and back it's like one person for every two or three chairs.
Still larger than SC2 in Korea.
Guess what? GSL Code S finals were going on at the same time.
Guess which one got more attention.
Edit: Let me give you some statistics about that finals.
1. It got up 2.219% of males aged 19-24. 2. During the final, for almost an hour, it got an average of 1.861% of viewers and was the 2nd most watched program during that time. 3. People started lining up from 7 o'clock in the morning, and almost 8000 people maxed out the stadium. 4. During the finals, ongamenet became one of the most searched words on various Korean portal sites.
I don't think anyone will argue LoL is bigger than SC2 in Korea at the moment, but the Code S finals did have 2,000 people in the arena. It also has 700,000 VoD views on the GOMTV site. That's pretty damn good for a tournament that isn't on television in Korea and is primarily online. Also Squirtle and MVP, if I remember, were one of the most popular searches on a Korean portal site while the finals were going on.
I think this is smart by OGN. By announcing this is the LAST CHAMPION in Brood War history, even if the finals are hyvaa vs. Shine, they'll probably draw a 10,000+ crowd if they decide to go to a big venue. The hype and the legends match beforehand will make it one of the biggest finals they've ever had.
Is that attendance number a sign of growth or stagnation? I am highly leaning towards the latter.
And I doubt that they count only Korean viewers towards the VoD views on their site, so that statistic is unusable.
I got no word of mvp and squirtle being top search terms. If you can provide a source, that would be very helpful.
On June 07 2012 04:33 marcelluspye wrote: I was hoping that they would cancel the OSL with this one and then just make a new league with a different name, to preserve OSL for BW. But whatever.
i wish they did that too >_<
And how should they call it?
OnGameNets Star(not BW) League - OSnBWL? It's OnGameNets League about Starcraft, so not much of a choice in names...
Easy. OnGameNet Starcraft 2 League. I suppose you can still simplify it as OSL, much like GSL (Global Starcraft 2 League).
Of course, Starleague is OGN's flagship league and brand name; there's no way they'd just drop it now. But it'd be nice. It'd be nice if they could do it that much justice and retire it all. The name, the records, the awards, the games, the wall of honor, the legacy. Just start anew.
really? is starcraft 2 that bad that it would bring the brand of OSL down? That feels like a bit of a slap in the face tbh and I personally see no point in it either.
Depends on the perspective.
1. Some people do indeed feel that SCToo being associated with the brand of OSL would be blasphemy to them. After all, OSL was Starleague because of its history as a BW league. Some feel that that would be tainted with the upcoming OSL.
2. Some people feel that in order for SCToo to stand on its own, it cannot continue to "piggyback" on the legacy of BW, which includes the OSL. If SCToo continues to do this, it will never be able to step out of its predecessor's shadow, at least in Korea.
On June 07 2012 04:33 marcelluspye wrote: I was hoping that they would cancel the OSL with this one and then just make a new league with a different name, to preserve OSL for BW. But whatever.
i wish they did that too >_<
And how should they call it?
OnGameNets Star(not BW) League - OSnBWL? It's OnGameNets League about Starcraft, so not much of a choice in names...
Easy. OnGameNet Starcraft 2 League. I suppose you can still simplify it as OSL, much like GSL (Global Starcraft 2 League).
Of course, Starleague is OGN's flagship league and brand name; there's no way they'd just drop it now. But it'd be nice. It'd be nice if they could do it that much justice and retire it all. The name, the records, the awards, the games, the wall of honor, the legacy. Just start anew.
really? is starcraft 2 that bad that it would bring the brand of OSL down? That feels like a bit of a slap in the face tbh and I personally see no point in it either.
Depends on the perspective.
1. Some people do indeed feel that SCToo being associated with the brand of OSL would be blasphemy to them. After all, OSL was Starleague because of its history as a BW league. Some feel that that would be tainted with the upcoming OSL.
2. Some people feel that in order for SCToo to stand on its own, it cannot continue to "piggyback" on the legacy of BW, which includes the OSL. If SCToo continues to do this, it will never be able to step out of its predecessor's shadow, at least in Korea.
On June 07 2012 04:33 marcelluspye wrote: I was hoping that they would cancel the OSL with this one and then just make a new league with a different name, to preserve OSL for BW. But whatever.
i wish they did that too >_<
And how should they call it?
OnGameNets Star(not BW) League - OSnBWL? It's OnGameNets League about Starcraft, so not much of a choice in names...
Easy. OnGameNet Starcraft 2 League. I suppose you can still simplify it as OSL, much like GSL (Global Starcraft 2 League).
Of course, Starleague is OGN's flagship league and brand name; there's no way they'd just drop it now. But it'd be nice. It'd be nice if they could do it that much justice and retire it all. The name, the records, the awards, the games, the wall of honor, the legacy. Just start anew.
Yea, something like OS2L would be ideal in my opinion.
On June 07 2012 04:33 marcelluspye wrote: I was hoping that they would cancel the OSL with this one and then just make a new league with a different name, to preserve OSL for BW. But whatever.
i wish they did that too >_<
And how should they call it?
OnGameNets Star(not BW) League - OSnBWL? It's OnGameNets League about Starcraft, so not much of a choice in names...
Easy. OnGameNet Starcraft 2 League. I suppose you can still simplify it as OSL, much like GSL (Global Starcraft 2 League).
Of course, Starleague is OGN's flagship league and brand name; there's no way they'd just drop it now. But it'd be nice. It'd be nice if they could do it that much justice and retire it all. The name, the records, the awards, the games, the wall of honor, the legacy. Just start anew.
really? is starcraft 2 that bad that it would bring the brand of OSL down? That feels like a bit of a slap in the face tbh and I personally see no point in it either.
Is that what I said?
This has nothing to do with SC2 itself or its merits as a game. I just don't believe in having a different game consume a league and take over its name and everything and continue on as if nothing had changed. What that causes is disparity in value. If Flash were to say, drop out of this current and final OSL, thereby ending BW as the man who could only tie Nada in terms of championships, but he went and won the first SC2 OSL, it would not mean he won 4 OSLs, thereby breaking the record for most championships. It would mean he won 3 OGN Starleague Golds, and 1 Starcraft 2 League Gold. You simply cannot equate a championship from one game with one from another. And it's easier to make that distinction if the names aren't exactly the same, and they aren't just continuing on with records. If Jaedong wants a platinum mouse, then he should earn it from the beginning. Your achievements in one game shouldn't carry over to another different game; that's utterly ridiculous.
Another example: As much as it kills me to say it, Bisu has never won an OGN Starleague gold, and he never will. That is his curse. And if he wins OGN's new SC2 league, do I get to say "lol you bitches were wrong, Bisu won an OSL"? Yeah um, no. It's simply not the same thing anymore.
On June 07 2012 04:33 marcelluspye wrote: I was hoping that they would cancel the OSL with this one and then just make a new league with a different name, to preserve OSL for BW. But whatever.
i wish they did that too >_<
And how should they call it?
OnGameNets Star(not BW) League - OSnBWL? It's OnGameNets League about Starcraft, so not much of a choice in names...
Easy. OnGameNet Starcraft 2 League. I suppose you can still simplify it as OSL, much like GSL (Global Starcraft 2 League).
Of course, Starleague is OGN's flagship league and brand name; there's no way they'd just drop it now. But it'd be nice. It'd be nice if they could do it that much justice and retire it all. The name, the records, the awards, the games, the wall of honor, the legacy. Just start anew.
really? is starcraft 2 that bad that it would bring the brand of OSL down? That feels like a bit of a slap in the face tbh and I personally see no point in it either.
Depends on the perspective.
1. Some people do indeed feel that SCToo being associated with the brand of OSL would be blasphemy to them. After all, OSL was Starleague because of its history as a BW league. Some feel that that would be tainted with the upcoming OSL.
2. Some people feel that in order for SCToo to stand on its own, it cannot continue to "piggyback" on the legacy of BW, which includes the OSL. If SCToo continues to do this, it will never be able to step out of its predecessor's shadow, at least in Korea.
Why the hell are BW fans saying "SCToo"?
idk i'm guessing it's something meant to demean SC2 as a game. sigh i wish everyone (in this case BW fans) would just be respectful to each other's game.
I've played BW and i think it's fun, and i play sc2 and think it's fun. I'd prefer if people didn't refer to SC2 as a "clearly inferior game" but w/e
I cant wait until SC2 fans start using terms like royal roader and legend of the fall, I wonder what other terms from BW we can use to incense the BW elitists.
On June 07 2012 04:33 marcelluspye wrote: I was hoping that they would cancel the OSL with this one and then just make a new league with a different name, to preserve OSL for BW. But whatever.
i wish they did that too >_<
And how should they call it?
OnGameNets Star(not BW) League - OSnBWL? It's OnGameNets League about Starcraft, so not much of a choice in names...
Easy. OnGameNet Starcraft 2 League. I suppose you can still simplify it as OSL, much like GSL (Global Starcraft 2 League).
Of course, Starleague is OGN's flagship league and brand name; there's no way they'd just drop it now. But it'd be nice. It'd be nice if they could do it that much justice and retire it all. The name, the records, the awards, the games, the wall of honor, the legacy. Just start anew.
really? is starcraft 2 that bad that it would bring the brand of OSL down? That feels like a bit of a slap in the face tbh and I personally see no point in it either.
Depends on the perspective.
1. Some people do indeed feel that SCToo being associated with the brand of OSL would be blasphemy to them. After all, OSL was Starleague because of its history as a BW league. Some feel that that would be tainted with the upcoming OSL.
2. Some people feel that in order for SCToo to stand on its own, it cannot continue to "piggyback" on the legacy of BW, which includes the OSL. If SCToo continues to do this, it will never be able to step out of its predecessor's shadow, at least in Korea.
Why the hell are BW fans saying "SCToo"?
They probably dont think it deserves to be the prequel of starcraft bw
On June 07 2012 06:05 Calis5 wrote: I cant wait until SC2 fans start using terms like royal roader and legend of the fall, I wonder what other terms from BW we can use to incense the BW elitists.
On June 06 2012 21:44 blubbdavid wrote: That picture is the future of LoL
It's already happening! And that's the first major LoL tournament in Korea.
Those chairs look pretty empty to me, they're full near the front, but once you get to the middle and back it's like one person for every two or three chairs.
Still larger than SC2 in Korea.
Guess what? GSL Code S finals were going on at the same time.
Guess which one got more attention.
Edit: Let me give you some statistics about that finals.
1. It got up 2.219% of males aged 19-24. 2. During the final, for almost an hour, it got an average of 1.861% of viewers and was the 2nd most watched program during that time. 3. People started lining up from 7 o'clock in the morning, and almost 8000 people maxed out the stadium. 4. During the finals, ongamenet became one of the most searched words on various Korean portal sites.
I don't think anyone will argue LoL is bigger than SC2 in Korea at the moment, but the Code S finals did have 2,000 people in the arena. It also has 700,000 VoD views on the GOMTV site. That's pretty damn good for a tournament that isn't on television in Korea and is primarily online. Also Squirtle and MVP, if I remember, were one of the most popular searches on a Korean portal site while the finals were going on.
I think this is smart by OGN. By announcing this is the LAST CHAMPION in Brood War history, even if the finals are hyvaa vs. Shine, they'll probably draw a 10,000+ crowd if they decide to go to a big venue. The hype and the legends match beforehand will make it one of the biggest finals they've ever had.
Is that attendance number a sign of growth or stagnation? I am highly leaning towards the latter.
And I doubt that they count only Korean viewers towards the VoD views on their site, so that statistic is unusable.
I got no word of mvp and squirtle being top search terms. If you can provide a source, that would be very helpful.
For the second point, no, the count of the VoD views is quite reliable because Gom setup a site specifically for English VoD at GomTv.net. And normally, people who don't have Premium ticket won't be able to watch the Korean VoD if they are not from Korea. So the 700,000 VoD views on the Korean site (since the foreign site has 250k views) would be mostly Korean. If we think of something like 90% Korean, then it would still be 630,000 VoD views.
EDIT: The Korean VoD is also played on GomTV.net site, which even make the incentive to go to the Korean site for foreigners lower.
EDIT 2: I also tried experimenting of whether the VoD can be played from the US, and I could not watch it. Refreshing the page or clicking to open the page from the link also not increase the watch count.
On June 07 2012 06:05 Calis5 wrote: I cant wait until SC2 fans start using terms like royal roader and legend of the fall, I wonder what other terms from BW we can use to incense the BW elitists.
Any story line invoking Reach, Anytime, Garimto, and Jangbi will inevitably be compared to those guys and their stories.
Or the stories of Boxer, July, Jaedong, and Nada.
You guys want SCtoo to stand on its own? Stop invoking those things.
And don't use the b-word now. It belongs to one man and one man only.
On June 06 2012 21:44 blubbdavid wrote: That picture is the future of LoL
It's already happening! And that's the first major LoL tournament in Korea.
Those chairs look pretty empty to me, they're full near the front, but once you get to the middle and back it's like one person for every two or three chairs.
Still larger than SC2 in Korea.
Guess what? GSL Code S finals were going on at the same time.
Guess which one got more attention.
Edit: Let me give you some statistics about that finals.
1. It got up 2.219% of males aged 19-24. 2. During the final, for almost an hour, it got an average of 1.861% of viewers and was the 2nd most watched program during that time. 3. People started lining up from 7 o'clock in the morning, and almost 8000 people maxed out the stadium. 4. During the finals, ongamenet became one of the most searched words on various Korean portal sites.
I don't think anyone will argue LoL is bigger than SC2 in Korea at the moment, but the Code S finals did have 2,000 people in the arena. It also has 700,000 VoD views on the GOMTV site. That's pretty damn good for a tournament that isn't on television in Korea and is primarily online. Also Squirtle and MVP, if I remember, were one of the most popular searches on a Korean portal site while the finals were going on.
I think this is smart by OGN. By announcing this is the LAST CHAMPION in Brood War history, even if the finals are hyvaa vs. Shine, they'll probably draw a 10,000+ crowd if they decide to go to a big venue. The hype and the legends match beforehand will make it one of the biggest finals they've ever had.
Is that attendance number a sign of growth or stagnation? I am highly leaning towards the latter.
And I doubt that they count only Korean viewers towards the VoD views on their site, so that statistic is unusable.
I got no word of mvp and squirtle being top search terms. If you can provide a source, that would be very helpful.
For the second point, no, the count of the VoD views is quite reliable because Gom setup a site specifically for English VoD at GomTv.net. And normally, people who don't have Premium ticket won't be able to watch the Korean VoD if they are not from Korea. So the 700,000 VoD views on the Korean site (since the foreign site has 250k views) would be mostly Korean. If we think of something like 90% Korean, then it would still be 630,000 VoD views.
I stand corrected. Especially since they lock the korean site for only Korean IPs.
On June 06 2012 21:44 blubbdavid wrote: That picture is the future of LoL
It's already happening! And that's the first major LoL tournament in Korea.
Those chairs look pretty empty to me, they're full near the front, but once you get to the middle and back it's like one person for every two or three chairs.
Still larger than SC2 in Korea.
Pretty sure is a lot larger, fan-base wise, than SC BW as well.
I am a bw elitist, I like to see LoL succeed in Korea just to get those SCToo newbs mad! I cant wait for my favorite BW pros to play a 40 apm team game.
On June 07 2012 04:33 marcelluspye wrote: I was hoping that they would cancel the OSL with this one and then just make a new league with a different name, to preserve OSL for BW. But whatever.
i wish they did that too >_<
And how should they call it?
OnGameNets Star(not BW) League - OSnBWL? It's OnGameNets League about Starcraft, so not much of a choice in names...
Easy. OnGameNet Starcraft 2 League. I suppose you can still simplify it as OSL, much like GSL (Global Starcraft 2 League).
Of course, Starleague is OGN's flagship league and brand name; there's no way they'd just drop it now. But it'd be nice. It'd be nice if they could do it that much justice and retire it all. The name, the records, the awards, the games, the wall of honor, the legacy. Just start anew.
really? is starcraft 2 that bad that it would bring the brand of OSL down? That feels like a bit of a slap in the face tbh and I personally see no point in it either.
Depends on the perspective.
1. Some people do indeed feel that SCToo being associated with the brand of OSL would be blasphemy to them. After all, OSL was Starleague because of its history as a BW league. Some feel that that would be tainted with the upcoming OSL.
2. Some people feel that in order for SCToo to stand on its own, it cannot continue to "piggyback" on the legacy of BW, which includes the OSL. If SCToo continues to do this, it will never be able to step out of its predecessor's shadow, at least in Korea.
Then those people are pathetic and should never be considered to having an opinion and it makes me sad to see you do, they're not worth listening to unless they're not subjective, notice it's those same people who aren't objective to change.
"Innovation is the ability to see change as an opportunity - not a threat” I guess you people are to arrogant and never seem to realise that broodwar isn't this perfect game that you keep reminiscing and you need to reccognise that however you just seem to be so closed minded and so closed to change which leads me to not giving a fuck of what you say. grow the fuck up.
Also that's not a legitimate answer in my eyes. you're just spewing BS
On June 06 2012 21:44 blubbdavid wrote: That picture is the future of LoL
It's already happening! And that's the first major LoL tournament in Korea.
Those chairs look pretty empty to me, they're full near the front, but once you get to the middle and back it's like one person for every two or three chairs.
Still larger than SC2 in Korea.
Guess what? GSL Code S finals were going on at the same time.
Guess which one got more attention.
Edit: Let me give you some statistics about that finals.
1. It got up 2.219% of males aged 19-24. 2. During the final, for almost an hour, it got an average of 1.861% of viewers and was the 2nd most watched program during that time. 3. People started lining up from 7 o'clock in the morning, and almost 8000 people maxed out the stadium. 4. During the finals, ongamenet became one of the most searched words on various Korean portal sites.
I don't think anyone will argue LoL is bigger than SC2 in Korea at the moment, but the Code S finals did have 2,000 people in the arena. It also has 700,000 VoD views on the GOMTV site. That's pretty damn good for a tournament that isn't on television in Korea and is primarily online. Also Squirtle and MVP, if I remember, were one of the most popular searches on a Korean portal site while the finals were going on.
I think this is smart by OGN. By announcing this is the LAST CHAMPION in Brood War history, even if the finals are hyvaa vs. Shine, they'll probably draw a 10,000+ crowd if they decide to go to a big venue. The hype and the legends match beforehand will make it one of the biggest finals they've ever had.
Is that attendance number a sign of growth or stagnation? I am highly leaning towards the latter.
And I doubt that they count only Korean viewers towards the VoD views on their site, so that statistic is unusable.
I got no word of mvp and squirtle being top search terms. If you can provide a source, that would be very helpful.
On June 07 2012 04:33 marcelluspye wrote: I was hoping that they would cancel the OSL with this one and then just make a new league with a different name, to preserve OSL for BW. But whatever.
i wish they did that too >_<
And how should they call it?
OnGameNets Star(not BW) League - OSnBWL? It's OnGameNets League about Starcraft, so not much of a choice in names...
Easy. OnGameNet Starcraft 2 League. I suppose you can still simplify it as OSL, much like GSL (Global Starcraft 2 League).
Of course, Starleague is OGN's flagship league and brand name; there's no way they'd just drop it now. But it'd be nice. It'd be nice if they could do it that much justice and retire it all. The name, the records, the awards, the games, the wall of honor, the legacy. Just start anew.
really? is starcraft 2 that bad that it would bring the brand of OSL down? That feels like a bit of a slap in the face tbh and I personally see no point in it either.
Depends on the perspective.
1. Some people do indeed feel that SCToo being associated with the brand of OSL would be blasphemy to them. After all, OSL was Starleague because of its history as a BW league. Some feel that that would be tainted with the upcoming OSL.
2. Some people feel that in order for SCToo to stand on its own, it cannot continue to "piggyback" on the legacy of BW, which includes the OSL. If SCToo continues to do this, it will never be able to step out of its predecessor's shadow, at least in Korea.
Then those people are pathetic and should never be considered to having an opinion and it makes me sad to see you do, they're not worth listening to unless they're not subjective, notice it's those same people who aren't objective to change.
"Innovation is the ability to see change as an opportunity - not a threat” I guess you people are to arrogant and never seem to realise that broodwar isn't this perfect game that you keep reminiscing and you need to reccognise that however you just seem to be so closed minded and so closed to change which leads me to not giving a fuck of what you say. grow the fuck up.
Also that's not a legitimate answer in my eyes. you're just spewing BS
The problem with your perspective is that when it is not an innovation but a degradation, I should rightfully protest and speak out for that.
And I didn't list all the perspectives. In fact, Kiett has a much more rational perspective than what I listed.
On June 06 2012 21:44 blubbdavid wrote: That picture is the future of LoL
It's already happening! And that's the first major LoL tournament in Korea.
Those chairs look pretty empty to me, they're full near the front, but once you get to the middle and back it's like one person for every two or three chairs.
Still larger than SC2 in Korea.
Guess what? GSL Code S finals were going on at the same time.
Guess which one got more attention.
Edit: Let me give you some statistics about that finals.
1. It got up 2.219% of males aged 19-24. 2. During the final, for almost an hour, it got an average of 1.861% of viewers and was the 2nd most watched program during that time. 3. People started lining up from 7 o'clock in the morning, and almost 8000 people maxed out the stadium. 4. During the finals, ongamenet became one of the most searched words on various Korean portal sites.
I don't think anyone will argue LoL is bigger than SC2 in Korea at the moment, but the Code S finals did have 2,000 people in the arena. It also has 700,000 VoD views on the GOMTV site. That's pretty damn good for a tournament that isn't on television in Korea and is primarily online. Also Squirtle and MVP, if I remember, were one of the most popular searches on a Korean portal site while the finals were going on.
I think this is smart by OGN. By announcing this is the LAST CHAMPION in Brood War history, even if the finals are hyvaa vs. Shine, they'll probably draw a 10,000+ crowd if they decide to go to a big venue. The hype and the legends match beforehand will make it one of the biggest finals they've ever had.
Is that attendance number a sign of growth or stagnation? I am highly leaning towards the latter.
And I doubt that they count only Korean viewers towards the VoD views on their site, so that statistic is unusable.
I got no word of mvp and squirtle being top search terms. If you can provide a source, that would be very helpful.
as long as GomTV lists flash as 2 time winner of GSL then I don't care if OSL lists bw accomplishments for their sc2 league. huehuehue.
Like all people recognise, you can't just list previous OSL achievements if it's an entirely different game. It'd be especially weird as this announcement, to me, is indicating they'll continue seeds for sc2 from tving OSL. And that's stupid.
I think it's pretty neat that this is being opened up to a global tournament. In the positive, this means current BW pros will only be practicing SC2, which means their overall skill level will definitely rise. Conversely, this also means that they will only be playing SC2 and that sucks for BW
On June 07 2012 06:26 N.geNuity wrote: as long as GomTV lists flash as 2 time winner of GSL then I don't care if OSL lists bw accomplishments for their sc2 league. huehuehue.
Like all people recognise, you can't just list previous OSL achievements if it's an entirely different game. It'd be especially weird as this announcement, to me, is indicating they'll continue seeds for sc2 from tving OSL. And that's stupid.
just make a new league. It's not the OSL.
They could just call it OSL2 or something.
I think the OSL is not only a BW-based brand, but also a brand built up around BW. A lot of people put a lot of hardwork to get the name "OSL" to where it is today, it is their right to reap the reward of having such quality associated with their league. Although, I do agree and understand it ought to be explicitly clear that there is a divide with respect to game and player history between OSL with BW and OSL with SC2.
Although, especially for english casts, it would be good to include or reference player BW history in order to develop a kind of primer story line for new viewers to sort of build on as well as appreciate where they came from. I think a complete segregation of BW from SC2 is bad though.
On June 06 2012 21:44 blubbdavid wrote: That picture is the future of LoL
It's already happening! And that's the first major LoL tournament in Korea.
Those chairs look pretty empty to me, they're full near the front, but once you get to the middle and back it's like one person for every two or three chairs.
Still larger than SC2 in Korea.
Guess what? GSL Code S finals were going on at the same time.
Guess which one got more attention.
Edit: Let me give you some statistics about that finals.
1. It got up 2.219% of males aged 19-24. 2. During the final, for almost an hour, it got an average of 1.861% of viewers and was the 2nd most watched program during that time. 3. People started lining up from 7 o'clock in the morning, and almost 8000 people maxed out the stadium. 4. During the finals, ongamenet became one of the most searched words on various Korean portal sites.
I don't think anyone will argue LoL is bigger than SC2 in Korea at the moment, but the Code S finals did have 2,000 people in the arena. It also has 700,000 VoD views on the GOMTV site. That's pretty damn good for a tournament that isn't on television in Korea and is primarily online. Also Squirtle and MVP, if I remember, were one of the most popular searches on a Korean portal site while the finals were going on.
I think this is smart by OGN. By announcing this is the LAST CHAMPION in Brood War history, even if the finals are hyvaa vs. Shine, they'll probably draw a 10,000+ crowd if they decide to go to a big venue. The hype and the legends match beforehand will make it one of the biggest finals they've ever had.
Is that attendance number a sign of growth or stagnation? I am highly leaning towards the latter.
And I doubt that they count only Korean viewers towards the VoD views on their site, so that statistic is unusable.
I got no word of mvp and squirtle being top search terms. If you can provide a source, that would be very helpful.
For the second point, no, the count of the VoD views is quite reliable because Gom setup a site specifically for English VoD at GomTv.net. And normally, people who don't have Premium ticket won't be able to watch the Korean VoD if they are not from Korea. So the 700,000 VoD views on the Korean site (since the foreign site has 250k views) would be mostly Korean. If we think of something like 90% Korean, then it would still be 630,000 VoD views.
EDIT: The Korean VoD is also played on GomTV.net site, which even make the incentive to go to the Korean site for foreigners lower.
EDIT 2: I also tried experimenting of whether the VoD can be played from the US, and I could not watch it. Refreshing the page or clicking to open the page from the link also not increase the watch count.
Just because I wanted to do the comparison, the vods for the finals of GomTV Classic Season 2 had 1,526,920 views, and GomTV Classic Season 3 had 1,509,156 views. Season 2 also had a ro8 matchup of Bisu vs Flash that had 2,090,148 views. The MVP vs Squirtle match has 712,477 views as its finals (can still grow with people watching it in the future, etc).
also though, you can see overall league vods for code S season 2 and for the GomTV season 3. I believe season 2 vods for GomTV Intel Classicare buried in later pages of season3 as following the link for it leads to same pages. But you can see the viewership numbers of the overall league, not just the finals (it's actually funny coincidence that MVP was the lowest viewercount for GomTV classic season 3 ro16 with 198,905). Big names like jaedong even grab like 500,000 in ro32 vs no names but overal ro16s is like ~300,000-~500,000 (depending on players) for the bw and ~180,000-~250,000 for ro8/ro4 sc2 (with one ro4 match being higher at 340,000).
Note those comparisons are out of date for brood war--as it may not be as popular now, and I think it's actually positive outlook for sc2 in korea that it still can grow some, but GomTV is still consistently pulling in ~1/2 the koreans than they did for bw. And this is exclusively comparing GomTV leagues with GomTV leagues.
On June 07 2012 07:39 sapht wrote: Did any of the korean fans really want this? Do they watch the SC2 matches in the current PL? I only do if I really care about one team or the other.
This death may be much thanks to Blizzard's IP claim, not wishes from fans, I suspect...
Im sure the legal troubles were a major factor, but even without them SC in general was waning in interest over there in relation to other free to play games like LoL. Choosing SC2, I suspect, was also done in order to captialize on the SC infrastructure and experience they already have with BW in hope of making a strong transition in light of foreign interest. They are also supporting LoL, but it would probably have been a more rocky change if they just jumped to a completely new title where they had little to no experience (or history) with regards to broadcasting and organizing it.
I am sure Blizzard likely greased the wheels with some kind of support of subsidy to make sure things run smoothly, but I think the whole "Blizzard made them do this against their will" thing is more of a emotional knee-jerk response to current events and gross simplification of the current business environment for them over there.
Of course I don't live in Korea, so someone more informed could correct me if I am wrong.
On June 06 2012 21:44 blubbdavid wrote: That picture is the future of LoL
It's already happening! And that's the first major LoL tournament in Korea.
Those chairs look pretty empty to me, they're full near the front, but once you get to the middle and back it's like one person for every two or three chairs.
Still larger than SC2 in Korea.
Guess what? GSL Code S finals were going on at the same time.
Guess which one got more attention.
Edit: Let me give you some statistics about that finals.
1. It got up 2.219% of males aged 19-24. 2. During the final, for almost an hour, it got an average of 1.861% of viewers and was the 2nd most watched program during that time. 3. People started lining up from 7 o'clock in the morning, and almost 8000 people maxed out the stadium. 4. During the finals, ongamenet became one of the most searched words on various Korean portal sites.
I don't think anyone will argue LoL is bigger than SC2 in Korea at the moment, but the Code S finals did have 2,000 people in the arena. It also has 700,000 VoD views on the GOMTV site. That's pretty damn good for a tournament that isn't on television in Korea and is primarily online. Also Squirtle and MVP, if I remember, were one of the most popular searches on a Korean portal site while the finals were going on.
I think this is smart by OGN. By announcing this is the LAST CHAMPION in Brood War history, even if the finals are hyvaa vs. Shine, they'll probably draw a 10,000+ crowd if they decide to go to a big venue. The hype and the legends match beforehand will make it one of the biggest finals they've ever had.
Is that attendance number a sign of growth or stagnation? I am highly leaning towards the latter.
And I doubt that they count only Korean viewers towards the VoD views on their site, so that statistic is unusable.
I got no word of mvp and squirtle being top search terms. If you can provide a source, that would be very helpful.
For the second point, no, the count of the VoD views is quite reliable because Gom setup a site specifically for English VoD at GomTv.net. And normally, people who don't have Premium ticket won't be able to watch the Korean VoD if they are not from Korea. So the 700,000 VoD views on the Korean site (since the foreign site has 250k views) would be mostly Korean. If we think of something like 90% Korean, then it would still be 630,000 VoD views.
EDIT: The Korean VoD is also played on GomTV.net site, which even make the incentive to go to the Korean site for foreigners lower.
EDIT 2: I also tried experimenting of whether the VoD can be played from the US, and I could not watch it. Refreshing the page or clicking to open the page from the link also not increase the watch count.
Just because I wanted to do the comparison, the vods for the finals of GomTV Classic Season 2 had 1,526,920 views, and GomTV Classic Season 3 had 1,509,156 views. Season 2 also had a ro8 matchup of Bisu vs Flash that had 2,090,148 views. The MVP vs Squirtle match has 712,477 views as its finals (can still grow with people watching it in the future, etc).
also though, you can see overall league vods for code S season 2 and for the GomTV season 3. I believe season 2 vods for GomTV Intel Classicare buried in later pages of season3 as following the link for it leads to same pages. But you can see the viewership numbers of the overall league, not just the finals (it's actually funny coincidence that MVP was the lowest viewercount for GomTV classic season 3 ro16 with 198,905). Big names like jaedong even grab like 500,000 in ro32 vs no names but overal ro16s is like ~300,000-~500,000 (depending on players) for the bw and ~180,000-~250,000 for ro8/ro4 sc2 (with one ro4 match being higher at 340,000).
Note those comparisons are out of date for brood war--as it may not be as popular now, and I think it's actually positive outlook for sc2 in korea that it still can grow some, but GomTV is still consistently pulling in ~1/2 the koreans than they did for bw. And this is exclusively comparing GomTV leagues with GomTV leagues.
That's not my point, though. There's no argument that BW is still more popular than SC2 in Korea, and that's not I want to argue with. My point is to prove that the 700k views of the VoD is genuine, unlike what jpak claimed as not reliable.
So yeah, SC2 is not as popular in Korea and that's a fact. Still, to argue that it's not growing at all is also kinda stretching.
On June 06 2012 16:52 Surgical_Strike wrote: according to the ELEPHANT mentality the kespa players should be good enough to make all "original" sc2 players look like a circus act by next season right? Or has that whole group of the community that believed the ELEPHANT talk eaten their words already?
That's just ugly.
I don't think anyone actually thought the BW players would go straight from BW to dominating SC2. Mostly they were jokes, or people saying that they had what it took for them to become big. And we have yet to see.
I'd rather have them play BW for two-three more years. :<
That's what the thread is all about though.
actually, no it isn't. Where have people been saying they'll come to sc2 and dunk on everyone in a week? We know it will take some time, but we also know they will be the absolute best given time.
On June 07 2012 04:33 marcelluspye wrote: I was hoping that they would cancel the OSL with this one and then just make a new league with a different name, to preserve OSL for BW. But whatever.
i wish they did that too >_<
And how should they call it?
OnGameNets Star(not BW) League - OSnBWL? It's OnGameNets League about Starcraft, so not much of a choice in names...
Easy. OnGameNet Starcraft 2 League. I suppose you can still simplify it as OSL, much like GSL (Global Starcraft 2 League).
Of course, Starleague is OGN's flagship league and brand name; there's no way they'd just drop it now. But it'd be nice. It'd be nice if they could do it that much justice and retire it all. The name, the records, the awards, the games, the wall of honor, the legacy. Just start anew.
really? is starcraft 2 that bad that it would bring the brand of OSL down? That feels like a bit of a slap in the face tbh and I personally see no point in it either.
. Depends on the perspective.
1. Some people do indeed feel that SCToo being associated with the brand of OSL would be blasphemy to them. After all, OSL was Starleague because of its history as a BW league. Some feel that that would be tainted with the upcoming OSL.
2. Some people feel that in order for SCToo to stand on its own, it cannot continue to "piggyback" on the legacy of BW, which includes the OSL. If SCToo continues to do this, it will never be able to step out of its predecessor's shadow, at least in Korea.
Why the hell are BW fans saying "SCToo"?
There was on-going joke (for 15minutes) on Flash meme thread, but it was like 1-2 week ago. Kinda one of those random ones.
On June 06 2012 21:44 blubbdavid wrote: That picture is the future of LoL
It's already happening! And that's the first major LoL tournament in Korea.
Those chairs look pretty empty to me, they're full near the front, but once you get to the middle and back it's like one person for every two or three chairs.
Still larger than SC2 in Korea.
Guess what? GSL Code S finals were going on at the same time.
Guess which one got more attention.
Edit: Let me give you some statistics about that finals.
1. It got up 2.219% of males aged 19-24. 2. During the final, for almost an hour, it got an average of 1.861% of viewers and was the 2nd most watched program during that time. 3. People started lining up from 7 o'clock in the morning, and almost 8000 people maxed out the stadium. 4. During the finals, ongamenet became one of the most searched words on various Korean portal sites.
I don't think anyone will argue LoL is bigger than SC2 in Korea at the moment, but the Code S finals did have 2,000 people in the arena. It also has 700,000 VoD views on the GOMTV site. That's pretty damn good for a tournament that isn't on television in Korea and is primarily online. Also Squirtle and MVP, if I remember, were one of the most popular searches on a Korean portal site while the finals were going on.
I think this is smart by OGN. By announcing this is the LAST CHAMPION in Brood War history, even if the finals are hyvaa vs. Shine, they'll probably draw a 10,000+ crowd if they decide to go to a big venue. The hype and the legends match beforehand will make it one of the biggest finals they've ever had.
Is that attendance number a sign of growth or stagnation? I am highly leaning towards the latter.
And I doubt that they count only Korean viewers towards the VoD views on their site, so that statistic is unusable.
I got no word of mvp and squirtle being top search terms. If you can provide a source, that would be very helpful.
For the second point, no, the count of the VoD views is quite reliable because Gom setup a site specifically for English VoD at GomTv.net. And normally, people who don't have Premium ticket won't be able to watch the Korean VoD if they are not from Korea. So the 700,000 VoD views on the Korean site (since the foreign site has 250k views) would be mostly Korean. If we think of something like 90% Korean, then it would still be 630,000 VoD views.
EDIT: The Korean VoD is also played on GomTV.net site, which even make the incentive to go to the Korean site for foreigners lower.
EDIT 2: I also tried experimenting of whether the VoD can be played from the US, and I could not watch it. Refreshing the page or clicking to open the page from the link also not increase the watch count.
Just because I wanted to do the comparison, the vods for the finals of GomTV Classic Season 2 had 1,526,920 views, and GomTV Classic Season 3 had 1,509,156 views. Season 2 also had a ro8 matchup of Bisu vs Flash that had 2,090,148 views. The MVP vs Squirtle match has 712,477 views as its finals (can still grow with people watching it in the future, etc).
also though, you can see overall league vods for code S season 2 and for the GomTV season 3. I believe season 2 vods for GomTV Intel Classicare buried in later pages of season3 as following the link for it leads to same pages. But you can see the viewership numbers of the overall league, not just the finals (it's actually funny coincidence that MVP was the lowest viewercount for GomTV classic season 3 ro16 with 198,905). Big names like jaedong even grab like 500,000 in ro32 vs no names but overal ro16s is like ~300,000-~500,000 (depending on players) for the bw and ~180,000-~250,000 for ro8/ro4 sc2 (with one ro4 match being higher at 340,000).
Note those comparisons are out of date for brood war--as it may not be as popular now, and I think it's actually positive outlook for sc2 in korea that it still can grow some, but GomTV is still consistently pulling in ~1/2 the koreans than they did for bw. And this is exclusively comparing GomTV leagues with GomTV leagues.
Does the Korean site work like the English site where they add up the views on each game for the numbers so you'd have to divide all the finals by 7? (You can tell thats how they do it on the English site by how the views drop in the round of 8 compared to the previous group stages with more games.)
On June 06 2012 21:44 blubbdavid wrote: That picture is the future of LoL
It's already happening! And that's the first major LoL tournament in Korea.
Those chairs look pretty empty to me, they're full near the front, but once you get to the middle and back it's like one person for every two or three chairs.
Still larger than SC2 in Korea.
Guess what? GSL Code S finals were going on at the same time.
Guess which one got more attention.
Edit: Let me give you some statistics about that finals.
1. It got up 2.219% of males aged 19-24. 2. During the final, for almost an hour, it got an average of 1.861% of viewers and was the 2nd most watched program during that time. 3. People started lining up from 7 o'clock in the morning, and almost 8000 people maxed out the stadium. 4. During the finals, ongamenet became one of the most searched words on various Korean portal sites.
I don't think anyone will argue LoL is bigger than SC2 in Korea at the moment, but the Code S finals did have 2,000 people in the arena. It also has 700,000 VoD views on the GOMTV site. That's pretty damn good for a tournament that isn't on television in Korea and is primarily online. Also Squirtle and MVP, if I remember, were one of the most popular searches on a Korean portal site while the finals were going on.
I think this is smart by OGN. By announcing this is the LAST CHAMPION in Brood War history, even if the finals are hyvaa vs. Shine, they'll probably draw a 10,000+ crowd if they decide to go to a big venue. The hype and the legends match beforehand will make it one of the biggest finals they've ever had.
Is that attendance number a sign of growth or stagnation? I am highly leaning towards the latter.
And I doubt that they count only Korean viewers towards the VoD views on their site, so that statistic is unusable.
I got no word of mvp and squirtle being top search terms. If you can provide a source, that would be very helpful.
For the second point, no, the count of the VoD views is quite reliable because Gom setup a site specifically for English VoD at GomTv.net. And normally, people who don't have Premium ticket won't be able to watch the Korean VoD if they are not from Korea. So the 700,000 VoD views on the Korean site (since the foreign site has 250k views) would be mostly Korean. If we think of something like 90% Korean, then it would still be 630,000 VoD views.
EDIT: The Korean VoD is also played on GomTV.net site, which even make the incentive to go to the Korean site for foreigners lower.
EDIT 2: I also tried experimenting of whether the VoD can be played from the US, and I could not watch it. Refreshing the page or clicking to open the page from the link also not increase the watch count.
Just because I wanted to do the comparison, the vods for the finals of GomTV Classic Season 2 had 1,526,920 views, and GomTV Classic Season 3 had 1,509,156 views. Season 2 also had a ro8 matchup of Bisu vs Flash that had 2,090,148 views. The MVP vs Squirtle match has 712,477 views as its finals (can still grow with people watching it in the future, etc).
also though, you can see overall league vods for code S season 2 and for the GomTV season 3. I believe season 2 vods for GomTV Intel Classicare buried in later pages of season3 as following the link for it leads to same pages. But you can see the viewership numbers of the overall league, not just the finals (it's actually funny coincidence that MVP was the lowest viewercount for GomTV classic season 3 ro16 with 198,905). Big names like jaedong even grab like 500,000 in ro32 vs no names but overal ro16s is like ~300,000-~500,000 (depending on players) for the bw and ~180,000-~250,000 for ro8/ro4 sc2 (with one ro4 match being higher at 340,000).
Note those comparisons are out of date for brood war--as it may not be as popular now, and I think it's actually positive outlook for sc2 in korea that it still can grow some, but GomTV is still consistently pulling in ~1/2 the koreans than they did for bw. And this is exclusively comparing GomTV leagues with GomTV leagues.
Does the Korean site work like the English site where they add up the views on each game for the numbers so you'd have to divide all the finals by 7? (You can tell thats how they do it on the English site by how the views drop in the round of 8 compared to the previous group stages with more games.)
The Korean site actually grouped VoDs together by series. So in Ro16, they had separate VoDs for Group D Game 1, Game 2, Winners Match, Losers Match, and Final Match. Semifinals are split in two (two matchups), and the Finals is one VoD series.
There must obviously be some kind of demand for OGN SC2 content don't be dense about it. While Blizzard is indeed a big company that makes a lot of money I doubt they have the kind of money to "bribe" or "bully" KESPA/OGN into broadcasting SC2 instead of BW.
KESPA/OGN are not idiots without business sense, they probably think that as things are now there is more demand for SC2 content than for BW content, so they went for the more commercial potential.
And yeah this was a pure business decisions, as much as we would like to think otherwise KESPA and OGN are just looking out for their interests. Had SC2 been a horrible FLOP worldwide no matter how much "bullying" and "bribing" Blizzard had done this wouldn't have happened.
Not saying that SC2 is to blame, nor Blizzard, nor nobody. Its more like, unfortunately, BW doesn't have as much commercial potential as more modern games.
On June 07 2012 08:32 windsupernova wrote: There must obviously be some kind of demand for OGN SC2 content don't be dense about it. While Blizzard is indeed a big company that makes a lot of money I doubt they have the kind of money to "bribe" or "bully" KESPA/OGN into broadcasting SC2 instead of BW.
KESPA/OGN are not idiots without business sense, they probably think that as things are now there is more demand for SC2 content than for BW content, so they went for the more commercial potential.
And yeah this was a pure business decisions, as much as we would like to think otherwise KESPA and OGN are just looking out for their interests. Had SC2 been a horrible FLOP worldwide no matter how much "bullying" and "bribing" Blizzard had done this wouldn't have happened.
Not saying that SC2 is to blame, nor Blizzard, nor nobody. Its more like, unfortunately, BW doesn't have as much commercial potential as more modern games.
Well, OGN just had their LoL tournament where they had English casters, so maybe they are trying to reach viewers outside of Korea, where SC2 is a lot more popular than BW.
I wonder if the winner of the current OSL will be seeded into the next one. If no kespa players get seeds I wonder if any of them will be able to qualify.
On June 07 2012 08:49 PhoenixVoid wrote: Wow, Brood War is really taking it's last breaths. Should be interesting seeing KeSPA vs GSL players though.
at the momnent it feels to strange cause its to early ... i dont think that more then perhaps 1 kespa player can make it in if even 1 ... all others will be gsl because sorry but the kespa players have a lot more work to do seeing proleague
And so the greatest esports scene and game is officially over.
It was a good run, cut short.....
13 years is cut short?
Compared to what it might have been, had SC2 never been released.
....some people are really stuck in time.. And some people try hard , not to think how much 13 years really is , its half life for i think 50% ( or even more then 50% ) of TL community , for some people even more then half of thier life. Changes are good ,you wanna watch BW whole life ? With the same graphics , same players etc etc ? Things must evolve , deal with it.
I was super excited to see all the pros switching over to SC2, but now the fact that BW is 100% done in just a few more short months... really hurts me to swallow this fact.
With MSL gone it was pretty expected to see OSL either disappear or convert to SC2. I'm glad they're setting up for the future, but sad to see BW and all of its history have to stop here
sc2 will never succeed in asia where games are dominantly all f2p model. Asians from this generation just don't buy games and softwares (Japan excluded)
Most people are not going to watch a game they don't own/play, and why would anyone invest $60 into a game they have no experience on when everything else is free? Its akin to paying for water in a restaurant.
On June 07 2012 11:41 iky43210 wrote: sc2 will never succeed in asia where games are dominantly all f2p model. Asians from this generation just don't buy games and softwares (Japan excluded)
Most people are not going to watch a game they don't own/play, and why would anyone invest $60 into a game they have no experience on when everything else is free? Its akin to paying for water in a restaurant.
i asia. this male speek some true.
korea many people play becaus: star1, war3, dota - free (fish, iccup, garena, LAN etc) lol - free sudden attak / conter strike - free
sc2 60$ too expense. no many many people will play. i thinks. but on other hand WoW also very popular asia.
On June 07 2012 11:41 iky43210 wrote: sc2 will never succeed in asia where games are dominantly all f2p model. Asians from this generation just don't buy games and softwares (Japan excluded)
Most people are not going to watch a game they don't own/play, and why would anyone invest $60 into a game they have no experience on when everything else is free? Its akin to paying for water in a restaurant.
i asia. this male speek some true.
korea many people play becaus: star1, war3, dota - free (fish, iccup, garena, LAN etc) lol - free sudden attak / conter strike - free
sc2 60$ too expense. no many many people will play. i thinks. but on other hand WoW also very popular asia.
On June 07 2012 11:41 iky43210 wrote: sc2 will never succeed in asia where games are dominantly all f2p model. Asians from this generation just don't buy games and softwares (Japan excluded)
Most people are not going to watch a game they don't own/play, and why would anyone invest $60 into a game they have no experience on when everything else is free? Its akin to paying for water in a restaurant.
Of course it will not reach the popularity like BW in 2003. Now there are just so many choices of esports. In 2003, Korea, there was just BW, one game, and it was the first game for esports in Korea. But now in Korea and every other country, you have LOL, Dota2, SF2, BW, SC2, and all sorts of games for esports. So each game definitely has a much smaller scene than the good old time when there was just one game. However, GSL already reaches my definition of success even though it's nothing compared to BW in 2003. But it's still a successful tournament, and that it's enough.
On June 06 2012 20:48 Sawamura wrote: I ain't sad at all, all I needed is Torchlight.
We'll pay some indie game company to make a complete BW clone just like torchlight was with diablo. It'll be the next biggest thing and ppl will stop saying "OMG STOP PLAYING A 12 YEAR OLD GAEM LOLZ".
We'll make it f2p and spice it up with cute anime graphics. It'll be huge. I can see it already.
Poor poor broodwar. Never played it, never involved in the community, but you guys have so much passion for that game, it's really hard not to be sad at the end of that. On the other hand, it's not completely over, they do have sc2. Hopefully they watch and at least give it a try for a month or so.
On June 06 2012 20:48 Sawamura wrote: I ain't sad at all, all I needed is Torchlight.
We'll pay some indie game company to make a complete BW clone just like torchlight was with diablo. It'll be the next biggest thing and ppl will stop saying "OMG STOP PLAYING A 12 YEAR OLD GAEM LOLZ".
We'll make it f2p and spice it up with cute anime graphics. It'll be huge. I can see it already.
Indie companies dont have the rights to do that, but Blizzard could the way it could be done is in a new engine and you would have two difficulties Hardcore and Casual. The hardcore would be exactly the same as BW with the pathing the way buildings work, automine etc etc and the casual mode would be SC2 Ish with BW Units. I really dont see why blizzard wouldnt want to cash in on this.
On June 06 2012 20:48 Sawamura wrote: I ain't sad at all, all I needed is Torchlight.
We'll pay some indie game company to make a complete BW clone just like torchlight was with diablo. It'll be the next biggest thing and ppl will stop saying "OMG STOP PLAYING A 12 YEAR OLD GAEM LOLZ".
We'll make it f2p and spice it up with cute anime graphics. It'll be huge. I can see it already.
Indie companies dont have the rights to do that, but Blizzard could the way it could be done is in a new engine and you would have two difficulties Hardcore and Casual. The hardcore would be exactly the same as BW with the pathing the way buildings work, automine etc etc and the casual mode would be SC2 Ish with BW Units. I really dont see why blizzard wouldnt want to cash in on this.
Well, atleast this is more concrete than when WC3 slowely faded away into Darkness ;(
It was the most influencial time in eSports history yet, and as long as we all live, its time and glory will not be forgotten. Rest in a wonderful peace, Starcraft 1, and may you always be remembered.
On June 06 2012 20:48 Sawamura wrote: I ain't sad at all, all I needed is Torchlight.
We'll pay some indie game company to make a complete BW clone just like torchlight was with diablo. It'll be the next biggest thing and ppl will stop saying "OMG STOP PLAYING A 12 YEAR OLD GAEM LOLZ".
We'll make it f2p and spice it up with cute anime graphics. It'll be huge. I can see it already.
Indie companies dont have the rights to do that, but Blizzard could the way it could be done is in a new engine and you would have two difficulties Hardcore and Casual. The hardcore would be exactly the same as BW with the pathing the way buildings work, automine etc etc and the casual mode would be SC2 Ish with BW Units. I really dont see why blizzard wouldnt want to cash in on this.
Torch light 1 in game play and feels just like diablo 1 and if there is a will there is a way maybe some indie developer will pick up broodwar and made a rts enjoyable as much as bw . There is a hope for indie developers since torch light did really well despite having the same core mechanics from diablo 1 and diablo2 in torch light 1 and 2 . Blizzard can't sue runic for having the same mechanics of looting and poting up when you are on low hp or mana .
Any indie developer is welcome to make a game as good as broodwar and I will be the first to say take my MONEY !. Yes I agree nothing can replace bw .
why would indie developers invest in a dying and overly complicated genre? Dota and FPS games requires very little funding and have a huge market. If I remembered correctly it only costs LoL 200k to make their game, while games like sc2 requires 100 million budget
On June 07 2012 20:45 iky43210 wrote: why would indie developers invest in a dying and overly complicated genre?
why would old(defunct) blizzard north team make a game that has diablo in every movement and loot in the game ?.
Because last I check RPG genre as a whole is still going strong.
Last I check fps games are much more stronger than the rpg scene right now .However that does not mean some one can't do a torch light facelift to a re imagination of broodwar. I would like to add to the fact that torchlight bgm music is really one of a kind mat uleman is really talented and I am hopeful that he keeps spinning this magic of his.
On June 06 2012 20:48 Sawamura wrote: I ain't sad at all, all I needed is Torchlight.
We'll pay some indie game company to make a complete BW clone just like torchlight was with diablo. It'll be the next biggest thing and ppl will stop saying "OMG STOP PLAYING A 12 YEAR OLD GAEM LOLZ".
We'll make it f2p and spice it up with cute anime graphics. It'll be huge. I can see it already.
On June 07 2012 21:58 carloselcoco wrote: I should try out for this league then xD
Good luck, but the qualifier will most likely be live in Korea. Though I do hope that they introduce some sort of way of how players outside of Korea may qualify for the league. But please nothing as vague as the gom seeds!
I'm so confused why they have to end BW for SC2, I get that this side by side league isn't exactly the most popular, but BW is certainly not dead and there is still money in it soo ._.;; however if this is how it goes, I will still watch despite the fact that the KeSPA players have not shown the ability to beat the foreigners yet haha.
Wow, i feel bad for the finalists of the current OSL, they will be practicing their BW matches till around 14-15 July for the finals, while everybody else will be practicing sc2, and when the finals are done they have 3 or 5 days to practice for the preliminaries for SC2, WTF???? , why start so early ?? how the hell is that fair for the finalists??.
On June 06 2012 09:26 bt545 wrote: Had to happen TBH
No it didn't. You force it you force it.
On June 07 2012 15:35 dezi wrote: While this is great news for SC2 it's sad for BW - no more liquibet titles to win XD
Oh I didn't think about that one. Damn you CruiseR for stealing my title, argh.
Glass half empty or full?
I'd say it's half empty because it will happen to all games. Longevity will always be a bitch for any game and that's why we cannot necessarily pass down such games from generation to generation.
Half full because we can still play amateur tournaments and friends. It's not so bad. Just means the end of professional competition.
Sorry Mini. You will never truly get to shine at BW. Such a shame; such a great talent.
On June 07 2012 01:50 Black[CAT] wrote: We knew it was coming...but fuck........... People have to understand as well, that prestige is what makes OSL the premier league, not the prize money. Wonder will that prestige will maintain in this bloody switch....or people just interested in the prize pool for it to be prestigious (my impression of the SC2 people).
SC2's most presitigious league is GSL. It is the most presitigious league because it has by far the highest skill level - and the only way to change that, is if a league sports a higher level of play constantly. It won't change to a league just because it is older or has a longer history, and a league that has a higher price pool but worse competition won't be as presitigious. That's at least how I see it, and I guess the majority of "the SC2 people" would agree. Also, your condescending tone towards the fanbase of this game is driving me mad. There is so much hate and arrogant behavior on display in this thread it's a shame. We all can symphathize with the loss of your hobby, but ffs cut the elitist remarks!
What are you on? Did you not read the statement? Prelims will be open to ALL players. In other words, the competition will be just as high.
KeSPA already went bush league on us with PL. They already messed up their biggest draw.
Anyway, it goes both ways bud in terms of the SC2 guys being out of line and the BW guys.
Unfortunately I'm in the middle of both. I kindly ask you to both keep in check. -_-
On June 07 2012 01:50 Black[CAT] wrote: We knew it was coming...but fuck........... People have to understand as well, that prestige is what makes OSL the premier league, not the prize money. Wonder will that prestige will maintain in this bloody switch....or people just interested in the prize pool for it to be prestigious (my impression of the SC2 people).
SC2's most presitigious league is GSL. It is the most presitigious league because it has by far the highest skill level - and the only way to change that, is if a league sports a higher level of play constantly. It won't change to a league just because it is older or has a longer history, and a league that has a higher price pool but worse competition won't be as presitigious. That's at least how I see it, and I guess the majority of "the SC2 people" would agree. Also, your condescending tone towards the fanbase of this game is driving me mad. There is so much hate and arrogant behavior on display in this thread it's a shame. We all can symphathize with the loss of your hobby, but ffs cut the elitist remarks!
What are you on? Did you not read the statement? Prelims will be open to ALL players. In other words, the competition will be just as high.
KeSPA already went bush league on us with PL. They already messed up their biggest draw.
Anyway, it goes both ways bud in terms of the SC2 guys being out of line and the BW guys.
Unfortunately I'm in the middle of both. I kindly ask you to both keep in check. -_-
StarStruck, I'm stealing your term "KeSPA already went bush league on us with PL" because it's awesome and I hope you don't mind me using it. lol
On June 07 2012 22:39 docvoc wrote: I'm so confused why they have to end BW for SC2, I get that this side by side league isn't exactly the most popular, but BW is certainly not dead and there is still money in it soo ._.;; however if this is how it goes, I will still watch despite the fact that the KeSPA players have not shown the ability to beat the foreigners yet haha.
no sponsors = no money. kespa haven't been able to find sponsors for years
I'm so sad that BW is going away. That said, I'm excited to see OSL continuing at the very least. It would have been so much worse to see it completely disappear.
I honestly don't know why people care so much. Bw is a 12 year old game. I don't see people crying over Counterstrike being dead. That game is classic.
So people here think that just because BW players are playing a 12 year old game, they can just dominate sc2?
That's like saying people who are unreal at NHL 94 would kill someone who plays NHL 12. makes no sense. There are gonna be the few, Fantasy/flash who will transfer well because they're natural gamers, but i don't see anyone beating MVP/Stephano from the current BW proleague. SC2 is a different game.
Broodwar is an awesome game and has had a bigger impact on my life than any other game by a large margin. I will miss it, but I do feel it is time for pro bw to end. I hope to see my favourite bw pros doing well in sc2!
On another note, if Flash wins the last BW OSL, it means he has
-Won gold for the last BW WCG -Won the last gold badge for the last MSL -Won the last GomTV Intel-TG Sambo Classics
And by winning the last OSL, he not only accomplishes the first ever 4th OSL win but probably be the best ever player to have played this game and end the era that is known as BW. This is the best case scenario for how the BW OSL can end.
Judging from what happened in the last OSL which words cannot describe the epicness from the prelims all the way to the finals, hope this one will be as good.
On June 08 2012 13:30 tranmillitary wrote: I honestly don't know why people care so much. Bw is a 12 year old game. I don't see people crying over Counterstrike being dead. That game is classic.
So people here think that just because BW players are playing a 12 year old game, they can just dominate sc2?
That's like saying people who are unreal at NHL 94 would kill someone who plays NHL 12. makes no sense. There are gonna be the few, Fantasy/flash who will transfer well because they're natural gamers, but i don't see anyone beating MVP/Stephano from the current BW proleague. SC2 is a different game.
Yeah, like what's with people staying in relationships for a long time? Hello, you could be dumping your girlfriend and getting with someone younger instead. What saps. :')
On June 08 2012 13:30 tranmillitary wrote: I honestly don't know why people care so much. Bw is a 12 year old game. I don't see people crying over Counterstrike being dead. That game is classic.
So people here think that just because BW players are playing a 12 year old game, they can just dominate sc2?
That's like saying people who are unreal at NHL 94 would kill someone who plays NHL 12. makes no sense. There are gonna be the few, Fantasy/flash who will transfer well because they're natural gamers, but i don't see anyone beating MVP/Stephano from the current BW proleague. SC2 is a different game.
First, BW is a 14 and nearly 15 years old game.
Yes there is quite a lot of differences between the two games, but the goal is still to mine ressources, build units and buildings, micro your army. You have to scout the ennemy and need game sense to understand how to counter. The mechanic of the games are fairly similar, its in fact so much easier on that point that its not even an argument to begin with.
You mention Flash and Fantasy who will transfer well because they're natural gamers.. yet you seem to forget that most of these bw players are, it wouldnt be their full time job otherwise.
On June 08 2012 13:30 tranmillitary wrote: I honestly don't know why people care so much. Bw is a 12 year old game. I don't see people crying over Counterstrike being dead. That game is classic.
So people here think that just because BW players are playing a 12 year old game, they can just dominate sc2?
That's like saying people who are unreal at NHL 94 would kill someone who plays NHL 12. makes no sense. There are gonna be the few, Fantasy/flash who will transfer well because they're natural gamers, but i don't see anyone beating MVP/Stephano from the current BW proleague. SC2 is a different game.
Your logic and arguments fail so hard on so many levels I actually don't know where to begin... My head hurts just from reading this post... If troll very well played
I'm going to bed now because I have a head ache....
On June 08 2012 13:30 tranmillitary wrote: I honestly don't know why people care so much. Bw is a 12 year old game. I don't see people crying over Counterstrike being dead. That game is classic.
So people here think that just because BW players are playing a 12 year old game, they can just dominate sc2?
That's like saying people who are unreal at NHL 94 would kill someone who plays NHL 12. makes no sense. There are gonna be the few, Fantasy/flash who will transfer well because they're natural gamers, but i don't see anyone beating MVP/Stephano from the current BW proleague. SC2 is a different game.
BW, not Bw, is older than 12 years. No one is literally crying over BW, and yes, people actually felt sad over Counterstrike. You can't claim or know which one is more classic, CS or BW. Not every BW player will dominate, but certainly people that were good in Broodwar has a higher chance of becoming good compared to a group of people who never has played an RTS before.
That's good news. I know people aren't happy about losing BW, but it was going to happen eventually. It was inevitable that BW would just disappear, essentially.
But SC2 is in need of more big Korean tournaments, so I'm glad OSL will switch to SC2.
On June 08 2012 13:30 tranmillitary wrote: I honestly don't know why people care so much. Bw is a 12 year old game. I don't see people crying over Counterstrike being dead. That game is classic.
So people here think that just because BW players are playing a 12 year old game, they can just dominate sc2?
That's like saying people who are unreal at NHL 94 would kill someone who plays NHL 12. makes no sense. There are gonna be the few, Fantasy/flash who will transfer well because they're natural gamers, but i don't see anyone beating MVP/Stephano from the current BW proleague. SC2 is a different game.
On June 08 2012 14:29 YyapSsap wrote: On another note, if Flash wins the last BW OSL, it means he has
-Won gold for the last BW WCG -Won the last gold badge for the last MSL -Won the last GomTV Intel-TG Sambo Classics
And by winning the last OSL, he not only accomplishes the first ever 4th OSL win but probably be the best ever player to have played this game and end the era that is known as BW. This is the best case scenario for how the BW OSL can end.
Judging from what happened in the last OSL which words cannot describe the epicness from the prelims all the way to the finals, hope this one will be as good.
Jangbi winning would also make for a good ending scenario, but yeah Flash would also be great. Anyone else apart from these two would be great for the players, but not as epic as it could have been
On June 11 2012 00:01 dsll wrote: The KeSPA tournament at MLG last night was very much a respectful nod to BroodWar ! Very classy from MLG!
Respectful nod to BroodWar? They played Wings of Liberty...
Very classy? I'm sure that tournament had something to do with breaking viewership records so I'm confused as to what was particularly classy about it.
I love MLG don't get me wrong I just don't understand what you mean.
I'm really hoping OSL and GSL will be able to run side by side and players will be able to participate in both.
Do you guys think this is a pipe dream though? Too hard to schedule two live tournaments in tandem. I mean they're competitors at the end of the day, they can't just avoid prime scheduling times because the other runs at that time.
On June 11 2012 00:01 dsll wrote: The KeSPA tournament at MLG last night was very much a respectful nod to BroodWar ! Very classy from MLG!
Can you post link to see what you are talking about, im interested?
I found an interview from the event with Leta, SoulKey, Jaedong, Fantasy, and Stork in which they talk about how exited they are, but their unhappy faces showing the opposite link KeSPA's Brood War Pro Players at MLG Spring Championships
On June 11 2012 00:01 dsll wrote: The KeSPA tournament at MLG last night was very much a respectful nod to BroodWar ! Very classy from MLG!
Can you post link to see what you are talking about, im interested?
I found an interview from the event with Leta, SoulKey, Jaedong, Fantasy, and Stork in which they talk about how exited they are, but their unhappy faces showing the opposite link KeSPA's Brood War Pro Players at MLG Spring Championships
They were rather reserved in that interview, but they really broke out in front of the crowd before their tourny. You can find it here: http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/live#sc2. Go forward to 28h 17m (more or less) and you'll be able to see the pregame and the tourny after it.
Watching Flash dominate this exhibition really shows how much he's been practicing and how much he is investing in SC2. He also said in an interview during Live On Three that he wants to (paraphrasing) put every last ounce of effort that he has into being great at SC2.
On June 10 2012 00:38 farnham wrote: i wonder how many bw players will survive the prelims
i was thinking the same thing. I don't know how the prelims for OSL will work but if its open to anyone i gotta imagine that the SC2 pros are gonna take it over very shortly. Having the advantage of time is gonna work in favor of them for so long as soon as the leagues start mixing the players up. For now the Kespa players have been protected from it, the first time we see the flood gates open of non kespa players in kespa events is gonna be very interesting.
On June 10 2012 00:38 farnham wrote: i wonder how many bw players will survive the prelims
i was thinking the same thing. I don't know how the prelims for OSL will work but if its open to anyone i gotta imagine that the SC2 pros are gonna take it over very shortly. Having the advantage of time is gonna work in favor of them for so long as soon as the leagues start mixing the players up. For now the Kespa players have been protected from it, the first time we see the flood gates open of non kespa players in kespa events is gonna be very interesting.
OSL will always be the Kespa BW scene playground so bring it on "original SC2 pros " . Time is on your side , but talent , work ethics , money and professionalisms is on ours . In this first ever SC2 OSL i'll root for the Kespa players protecting their pride as the true professionals in Korea . Show them that the BW pro scene was the definition of E-sports and their players the best when it comes to RTS gaming .
There are not that many outstanding talents in SC2 from what i've seen and the skill ceiling in SC2 isn't that high either . I personally feel that the disparity of the league would be 50 % non Kespa players - 50 % kespa players in the RO16 or 60-40 both ways depends on the number of people from both sides entering the OSL prelimineries , it will depend on the luck of the draw as well . I'll put my money on the Woongjin stars's players , Effort , Flash , Leta , Fantasy , Jaedong and whoever from the horde of PL protosses that practise the most defending the pride of the starleague . I personally feel that the Kespa players will have the uperhand in the mirror MUs do to better mechanics againsts most of the non Kespa players except the very top SC2 pros . I am pretty sure that there are a lot of korean GM players in Kespa to make this a worthy challenge .
Also the starleague just like the GSL is not just about the overall skill it's more about the mind games and good preparation . Foreign tournaments have nothing in common .
On June 11 2012 00:01 dsll wrote: The KeSPA tournament at MLG last night was very much a respectful nod to BroodWar ! Very classy from MLG!
Can you post link to see what you are talking about, im interested?
I found an interview from the event with Leta, SoulKey, Jaedong, Fantasy, and Stork in which they talk about how exited they are, but their unhappy faces showing the opposite link KeSPA's Brood War Pro Players at MLG Spring Championships
I would imgagine their very tired from the trip and from the constant attention they're getting in a new place, but maybe you're right maybe im just a fool for believing that PR stuff :/
On June 06 2012 09:23 nokz88 wrote: - After 13 years of history and 34 editions, Tving StarLeague 2012 will be the last BroodWar OSL
13? Coincidence?
I'll admit that I'm still in denial. It's really hard for me. There's nothing wrong with the product itself... people are still into it. I keep thinking that there's still a glimmer of hope. So much for my dream of watching an actual game live (I've actually dreamt that I watched Nal_ra play live)...
It feels terrible to see something else that there still exists great public interest and audiences for go through a phase of planned obsolescence just because they want to push a new product. RIP Korean BW proscene, you will be missed.
Every end is a new beginning. I'm so sad bw will be gone (from highest competitive play) but a gigantic sc2 community will expand even more - players and viewers from all over the world! It will be so awesome (mlg, osl, gsl, teamleagues, .....). I hope it will not end in endless complainments from the 'old' bw people, so we can just all together enjoy the great sport and its entertainment which is given to us.
RIP Brood War You got me into Starcraft and this great community.
I remember hearing in Kendo practice once that the most respectful thing a student can do is surpass his teacher. I hope SC2 one day surpasses BW. Not to "show up" or snub BW, but to build on everything it made for a glorious esports future.
On June 12 2012 20:00 Truenappa wrote: RIP Brood War You got me into Starcraft and this great community.
I remember hearing in Kendo practice once that the most respectful thing a student can do is surpass his teacher. I hope SC2 one day surpasses BW. Not to "show up" or snub BW, but to build on everything it made for a glorious esports future.
SC2 already surpassed BW in some ways already. I mean, let's take off our nostalgia goggles here, BW scene ended up as circlejerk among koreaboos and koreans, with most foreigners not even giving a damn about it and WCG only being the worthwhile international exposure. To be honest, I wish the scene will grow independent of KeSPA's influence without having one particular side having dominant control over the scene. They should keep what SC2 scene has built up from scratch instead of abandoning it in favor of "building on top of BW." Don't abandon GOMTV guys. ;_; Keeping the way things are as of right now is the best way to ensure a better future for eSports.
Some additional information announced after the conclusion of Tuesday's broadcast:
Two Finalists from this seasons BW OSL will be seeded directly into the next league Completely open qualifiers (confirmed) More details will be released on the OGN website on the 15th (Friday)
On June 12 2012 20:00 Truenappa wrote: RIP Brood War You got me into Starcraft and this great community.
I remember hearing in Kendo practice once that the most respectful thing a student can do is surpass his teacher. I hope SC2 one day surpasses BW. Not to "show up" or snub BW, but to build on everything it made for a glorious esports future.
SC2 already surpassed BW in some ways already. I mean, let's take off our nostalgia goggles here, BW scene ended up as circlejerk among koreaboos and koreans, with most foreigners not even giving a damn about it and WCG only being the worthwhile international exposure. To be honest, I wish the scene will grow independent of KeSPA's influence without having one particular side having dominant control over the scene. They should keep what SC2 scene has built up from scratch instead of abandoning it in favor of "building on top of BW." Don't abandon GOMTV guys. ;_; Keeping the way things are as of right now is the best way to ensure a better future for eSports.
What the fuck are you on?
You know I wrote about this too many times to enlighten you on how wrong you are but you want to remain oblivious then do so.
I love it when people comment on things they don't even know.
The same thing will happen to SC2. It's nothing revolutionary.
Oh wait, aren't you that same guy from a few months ago? lmao I think I even reposted the link to someone's blog to point out why the scene is the way it is now. It's like deja vu all over again, lmao.
As the bw is popular with korean fan girls what will happen when sc2 takes over? Will there fandom cross over to a new game where their heroes have to fight in a new setting and is sc2 really appealing to girls? I think that the mainstream success lies in the fact that handsome bw pros broadened the demographic to include more girls in Korea. Therefore sc2 must appeal to girls both through game-play and the attractiveness of the players.
On June 13 2012 02:56 archonOOid wrote: As the bw is popular with korean fan girls what will happen when sc2 takes over? Will there fandom cross over to a new game where their heroes have to fight in a new setting and is sc2 really appealing to girls? I think that the mainstream success lies in the fact that handsome bw pros broadened the demographic to include more girls in Korea. Therefore sc2 must appeal to girls both through game-play and the attractiveness of the players.
Most fangirls in Korea don't even understand the metagame perfectly anyways. All SC2 needs is another BoxeR or Flash to fawn over and we're good. A better tutorial for all three races can help too.
On June 13 2012 02:56 archonOOid wrote: As the bw is popular with korean fan girls what will happen when sc2 takes over? Will there fandom cross over to a new game where their heroes have to fight in a new setting and is sc2 really appealing to girls? I think that the mainstream success lies in the fact that handsome bw pros broadened the demographic to include more girls in Korea. Therefore sc2 must appeal to girls both through game-play and the attractiveness of the players.
Well there are some handsome guys in SC2 already even before the BW pros switch over. MarineKing is cute and sexy, MMA is apparently popular with the ladies, MVP is handsome and has an air of maturity, DRG isn't bad looking, and some of the less successful players are certainly good looking. All of these players also have pretty distinct styles of play. I think once the BW pros join the mix it will be a popular scene.
So, when I interviewed TBLS at MLG Anaheim, they didn't seem to realize that the OS2L was going to have non-KeSPA players in it and were very confused...I hope they KNOW.
On June 13 2012 06:19 ShiroKaisen wrote: So, when I interviewed TBLS at MLG Anaheim, they didn't seem to realize that the OS2L was going to have non-KeSPA players in it and were very confused...I hope they KNOW.
If we, random fan over the globe on the internet, are aware of this fact, I believe the kespa players know it.. Maybe they we're just confused with the question?
On June 13 2012 06:19 ShiroKaisen wrote: So, when I interviewed TBLS at MLG Anaheim, they didn't seem to realize that the OS2L was going to have non-KeSPA players in it and were very confused...I hope they KNOW.
If we, random fan over the globe on the internet, are aware of this fact, I believe the kespa players know it.. Maybe they we're just confused with the question?
I'm not so sure. It's possible they were too busy with the KeSPA Invitational, practicing for Proleague, etc, and weren't reading the announcements on sites or forums.
Remember, Bisu didn't know he was playing at MLG when Wax interviewed him.
On June 13 2012 06:19 ShiroKaisen wrote: So, when I interviewed TBLS at MLG Anaheim, they didn't seem to realize that the OS2L was going to have non-KeSPA players in it and were very confused...I hope they KNOW.
If we, random fan over the globe on the internet, are aware of this fact, I believe the kespa players know it.. Maybe they we're just confused with the question?
I'm not so sure. It's possible they were too busy with the KeSPA Invitational, practicing for Proleague, etc, and weren't reading the announcements on sites or forums.
Remember, Bisu didn't know he was playing at MLG when Wax interviewed him.
Well then this is weird that their coach and manager don't take the time to tell them such important things !
Some of you don't realize why they're opening the door for anyone. I can tell you it is "for now," and there is more to it than meets the eye.
Basically they want to grab the current SC2 pros out of the existing teams. They know it is inevitable for young talents, and teams without long-term sponsers. (Just see how oGs has disbanded, or how ZeNex loses up and coming players they've found) Only competitive SC2 teams so far are IM (sponsored by LG) and Slayers (sponsored by Intel). No team is safe, and even the top players who chose foreign teams might eventually be pressured.
It is a direct challenge on GomTV to an extent, but Gom has Blizzard on their side. As long as they keep things fair, as a fan, all I hope is the players have the maximum freedom. (not the sponsors and coaches, or anyone else really) But don't be surprised if they do an about-face (such as "pro-gamer license") depending on how things develop.
Also, they have no sympathy for existing BW pros whatsoever. It is a great chance for them to get rid of many players who are not going to be competitive in SC2 with some semblance of legitimacy. (i.e. without controversies)
On June 13 2012 02:56 archonOOid wrote: As the bw is popular with korean fan girls what will happen when sc2 takes over? Will there fandom cross over to a new game where their heroes have to fight in a new setting and is sc2 really appealing to girls? I think that the mainstream success lies in the fact that handsome bw pros broadened the demographic to include more girls in Korea. Therefore sc2 must appeal to girls both through game-play and the attractiveness of the players.
Most fangirls in Korea don't even understand the metagame perfectly anyways. All SC2 needs is another BoxeR or Flash to fawn over and we're good. A better tutorial for all three races can help too.
On June 12 2012 20:00 Truenappa wrote: RIP Brood War You got me into Starcraft and this great community.
I remember hearing in Kendo practice once that the most respectful thing a student can do is surpass his teacher. I hope SC2 one day surpasses BW. Not to "show up" or snub BW, but to build on everything it made for a glorious esports future.
SC2 already surpassed BW in some ways already. I mean, let's take off our nostalgia goggles here, BW scene ended up as circlejerk among koreaboos and koreans, with most foreigners not even giving a damn about it and WCG only being the worthwhile international exposure. To be honest, I wish the scene will grow independent of KeSPA's influence without having one particular side having dominant control over the scene. They should keep what SC2 scene has built up from scratch instead of abandoning it in favor of "building on top of BW." Don't abandon GOMTV guys. ;_; Keeping the way things are as of right now is the best way to ensure a better future for eSports.
Yeah ironically the foreigners who gave a damn about it made this website and the SC2 foreign scene as you know it now.
On June 13 2012 08:23 usethis2 wrote: Some of you don't realize why they're opening the door for anyone. I can tell you it is "for now," and there is more to it than meets the eye.
Basically they want to grab the current SC2 pros out of the existing teams. They know it is inevitable for young talents, and teams without long-term sponsers. (Just see how oGs has disbanded, or how ZeNex loses up and coming players they've found) Only competitive SC2 teams so far are IM (sponsored by LG) and Slayers (sponsored by Intel). No team is safe, and even the top players who chose foreign teams might eventually be pressured.
It is a direct challenge on GomTV to an extent, but Gom has Blizzard on their side. As long as they keep things fair, as a fan, all I hope is the players have the maximum freedom. (not the sponsors and coaches, or anyone else really) But don't be surprised if they do an about-face (such as "pro-gamer license") depending on how things develop.
Pretty sure SlayerS isn't sponsored by Intel or Razer anymore. They lost their big sponsors recently from what I can tell.
On June 06 2012 09:26 bt545 wrote: Had to happen TBH
True, still sad though. Ill be even sadder when sc2 dies in place of sc3, I will probably be to slow to learn a new game then.
It's ok, you probably won't be alive to see it anyways
On topic, this is huge... sad face for BW but I agree it had to happen sooner or later, and HotS is soon to be released. So BE pros will have a chance at that game from the start.
You know what's wrong ? Ogn continuing the players record and mixing bw record with sc2 games . Two are different games and sc2 players will not be able to play broodwar at the same level . So how can winning a game in sc2 be the same as winning in broodwar ? . I know what you are doing ogn trying to pull some of us viewers back by keeping some thing familiar,same casters, same records for the players . But not all of us are going to buy in to the trick you are doing right now.
On June 13 2012 08:23 usethis2 wrote: Some of you don't realize why they're opening the door for anyone. I can tell you it is "for now," and there is more to it than meets the eye.
Basically they want to grab the current SC2 pros out of the existing teams. They know it is inevitable for young talents, and teams without long-term sponsers. (Just see how oGs has disbanded, or how ZeNex loses up and coming players they've found) Only competitive SC2 teams so far are IM (sponsored by LG) and Slayers (sponsored by Intel). No team is safe, and even the top players who chose foreign teams might eventually be pressured.
It is a direct challenge on GomTV to an extent, but Gom has Blizzard on their side. As long as they keep things fair, as a fan, all I hope is the players have the maximum freedom. (not the sponsors and coaches, or anyone else really) But don't be surprised if they do an about-face (such as "pro-gamer license") depending on how things develop.
Pretty sure SlayerS isn't sponsored by Intel or Razer anymore. They lost their big sponsors recently from what I can tell.
Boxer has been on Intel's commercials in Korea. It is well known that he was given a large trust fund by Intel to form a new team sirca 2010. No one knows for sure the details of the deal between the two, but it's not the kind of sponsorship that you simply withdraw when you want. (It's not like a few million bucks make a dent in Intel's budget. It's a chump change for them)
On June 13 2012 08:23 usethis2 wrote: Some of you don't realize why they're opening the door for anyone. I can tell you it is "for now," and there is more to it than meets the eye.
Basically they want to grab the current SC2 pros out of the existing teams. They know it is inevitable for young talents, and teams without long-term sponsers. (Just see how oGs has disbanded, or how ZeNex loses up and coming players they've found) Only competitive SC2 teams so far are IM (sponsored by LG) and Slayers (sponsored by Intel). No team is safe, and even the top players who chose foreign teams might eventually be pressured.
It is a direct challenge on GomTV to an extent, but Gom has Blizzard on their side. As long as they keep things fair, as a fan, all I hope is the players have the maximum freedom. (not the sponsors and coaches, or anyone else really) But don't be surprised if they do an about-face (such as "pro-gamer license") depending on how things develop.
No I don't think so, atleast that should not be the case.
Remember this is OGN, which is a tv station, not kespa directly. As such they must be looking out to grab a wider audience (current korean sc2 pros and possibly foreigners).
On June 13 2012 08:23 usethis2 wrote: Some of you don't realize why they're opening the door for anyone. I can tell you it is "for now," and there is more to it than meets the eye.
Basically they want to grab the current SC2 pros out of the existing teams. They know it is inevitable for young talents, and teams without long-term sponsers. (Just see how oGs has disbanded, or how ZeNex loses up and coming players they've found) Only competitive SC2 teams so far are IM (sponsored by LG) and Slayers (sponsored by Intel). No team is safe, and even the top players who chose foreign teams might eventually be pressured.
It is a direct challenge on GomTV to an extent, but Gom has Blizzard on their side. As long as they keep things fair, as a fan, all I hope is the players have the maximum freedom. (not the sponsors and coaches, or anyone else really) But don't be surprised if they do an about-face (such as "pro-gamer license") depending on how things develop.
No I don't think so, atleast that should not be the case.
Remember this is OGN, which is a tv station, not kespa directly. As such they must be looking out to grab a wider audience (current korean sc2 pros and possibly foreigners).
Yes, exactly. And that would not happen if current BW pros aren't up to the task (which is a big question mark). Fans will immediately note the difference of quality of games.
For them this is a perfect chance for market force to work it out for them. They can get rid of BW pros who are not making succesful transitions without much criticism (in Korea where normally mutual loyalty is valued), at the same time they can lure out young talents with huge potentials from existing SC2 teams. (Those who are struggling in Code B are prime target. Think of, say, CreatorPrime of 6 months ago)
"Target" may be a wrong word. As I said, the force of free-market will do it for them. And I have no objection to it. What I'm concerned is what might happen afterward (i.e. once the market settles) When they feel like they have sufficient power over players, they can and will exert enormous power over players.
For example: Kespa players exclusive to MLG outside Korea - For MLG, it's a natural and a right move to make as a business so I don't fault them at all. But imagine a Kespa player participating (or, however unlikely, being invited to) a Dreamhak event. Kespa can easily revoke the player's "license" for all I know. Yeah I know OGN and Kespa are different organizations but that's like saying GOM and Blizzard are different corporations (till now).
I think having that would legitimize the profession. There must be some kind of regulation, as it is rightnow everything is a huge mess and could fall apart soon if kept that way. A central organization to setup the player/team contract parameters, to judge litigations and to organize teams is crucial.
In football we have FIFA, CONMEBOL, CONCACAF, CBF and so on (don't really know the rest :s) to keep everything organized. FIFA sets the most general rules that everyone must follow, CONMEBOL follows those rules and adjusts new ones to the reality of the south american football and CBF does the same for the reality of the brazilian football.
CBF works as a representative of the brazilian football scene in CONMEBOL, they both work together to regularize the brazilian seeds into south american leagues (Copa Libertadores, Sul Americana, etc). CONMEBOL in the other hand works with FIFA to protect/defend the south american interests in the international scene (SA seeds into WC, for example).
All these organizations work together to keep the local/regional/international football scene running healthy and organized.
If "eSports" wants to be taken seriously, the same thing should exist, but on the proper scale of course.
On June 13 2012 12:02 fabiano wrote: What is wrong about progamer license?
Managers/Coaches/Corporate interests or ego-conflicts hindering young players' freedom for one. And I don't think of SC2 as an esports is some sort of nationalic events like soccer. Had that been the case we would have national/regional quota systems for most global events. SC2 is more about individuals and their skillZ.
Check out how entertainment industry (especially music industry) works out for individual talents with regards to the contracts.
On June 13 2012 08:23 usethis2 wrote: Some of you don't realize why they're opening the door for anyone. I can tell you it is "for now," and there is more to it than meets the eye.
Basically they want to grab the current SC2 pros out of the existing teams. They know it is inevitable for young talents, and teams without long-term sponsers. (Just see how oGs has disbanded, or how ZeNex loses up and coming players they've found) Only competitive SC2 teams so far are IM (sponsored by LG) and Slayers (sponsored by Intel). No team is safe, and even the top players who chose foreign teams might eventually be pressured.
It is a direct challenge on GomTV to an extent, but Gom has Blizzard on their side. As long as they keep things fair, as a fan, all I hope is the players have the maximum freedom. (not the sponsors and coaches, or anyone else really) But don't be surprised if they do an about-face (such as "pro-gamer license") depending on how things develop.
Pretty sure SlayerS isn't sponsored by Intel or Razer anymore. They lost their big sponsors recently from what I can tell.
Not sure about Intel (I think the contract expired), but I won't be surprised if Razer part way with Slayers because Slayers enter into a partnership with EG, which is pretty much a Steelseries team.
But I don't think Slayers lose that much though, since they have enough money to recently move to a bigger team house(s), so I think they are still financially secured.
On June 13 2012 12:02 fabiano wrote: What is wrong about progamer license?
I think having that would legitimize the profession. There must be some kind of regulation, as it is rightnow everything is a huge mess and could fall apart soon if kept that way. A central organization to setup the player/team contract parameters, to judge litigations and to organize teams is crucial.
In football we have FIFA, CONMEBOL, CONCACAF, CBF and so on (don't really know the rest :s) to keep everything organized. FIFA sets the most general rules that everyone must follow, CONMEBOL follows those rules and adjusts new ones to the reality of the south american football and CBF does the same for the reality of the brazilian football.
CBF works as a representative of the brazilian football scene in CONMEBOL, they both work together to regularize the brazilian seeds into south american leagues (Copa Libertadores, Sul Americana, etc). CONMEBOL in the other hand works with FIFA to protect/defend the south american interests in the international scene (SA seeds into WC, for example).
All these organizations work together to keep the local/regional/international football scene running healthy and organized.
If "eSports" wants to be taken seriously, the same thing should exist, but on the proper scale of course.
Well I like your point that an organization that mimics the same function of a real life sport organization should made appearance in competitive computer games . But in the end what use of it of such organizations when we are not sure which games are going to last ? Sports do not change everyday although there will be minor rules change but the game still remains the same . Competitive computer game sports change every time a developer comes out a new game in the market how is this viable and organization will be able to keep with such a change ? .
The market is just too volatile for a solid foundation to handle it right now until we can label a game that is really good and accessible to all players around the globe and they are in agreement that this is a game that is worthy of competitive computer game than it will be accepted.
Im so disappointed in blizz right now its really sad. I cant believe the same company that made the best game ever which had me hooked for 10 years is now milking customers like cows, releases absurdly shitty games (d3) and is now responsible for killing bw for good and replacing it with a mediocre rts at best (in comparison). Only thing that is somehwat of a relieve is that I know sc2 will never get such legendary status and will surely be milked dry in 5 years and completely forgotten. But hey, I guess sc3 will be around the corner then. In my teens I was so naive to believe bw could be pretty timeless like chess but I realized it wouldnt happen long before sc2 was released. Well, its still a long way to go before computer games can really become something like sports. E-sports? Lol, ppl are kidding themselves.
On June 13 2012 13:13 diehilde wrote: Im so disappointed in blizz right now its really sad. I cant believe the same company that made the best game ever which had me hooked for 10 years is now milking customers like cows, releases absurdly shitty games (d3) and is now responsible for killing bw for good and replacing it with a mediocre rts at best (in comparison). Only thing that is somehwat of a relieve is that I know sc2 will never get such legendary status and will surely be milked dry in 5 years and completely forgotten. But hey, I guess sc3 will be around the corner then. In my teens I was so naive to believe bw could be pretty timeless like chess but I realized it wouldnt happen long before sc2 was released. Well, its still a long way to go before computer games can really become something like sports. E-sports? Lol, ppl are kidding themselves.
Blaming everything on Blizz is kinda too stretch, in my opinion. I don't really think KesPa would transition to SC2 if they are not this desperate. Why would they want to transition out of a game that definitely has a larger fanbase to an untested game? It's just that BW could not draw any more sponsorship for their leagues anymore so KesPa has to transition. Something is very wrong when the most prestigious league (SPL, OSL) could not find any sponsor for their league and has to rely on internal sponsorship (CJ and SK), while the online-viewing only tournament like GSL could find a sponsor three seasons in a row, albeit small ones (Hot6ix and now Monsieur J).
And for eSport, it depends on how you would define the word itself. If you define it as "a game with professional tournament that would transcend the time and remain forever", then eSport is most likely does not exist because the game will always be built around technology and technology is moving forward. But if you view it as "a competitive gaming that display dedication of players, with professional tournaments and teams that provide their incomes", then eSports exist as a whole with all games being a part of it. So the goal between the two mind sets would also be different.
For me who believe eSports is more of the second thought, I think the goal of growing eSport is to improve the competitive scene and community, while branching out so that more people will find "watching other players playing game" entertaining. It's not about one game, it's about the concept of playing games competitively becomes accepted as a source of entertainment, while trying to build as large fanbase as possible for the transition to the next game when the time comes.
On June 13 2012 16:19 zazone wrote: if they have trouble finding sponsors for BW, how are they going to fund a SCToo OSL when its popularity its so low ?
GSL can find sponsors, despite not as large as BW used to have. So I think it depends on how large the sponsor KesPa and OGN want. If they want something to big, then they would be less likely to find a sponsor, unless they could find an international company that would be more willing to sponsor because it would reach the global audience too.
On June 13 2012 16:19 zazone wrote: if they have trouble finding sponsors for BW, how are they going to fund a SCToo OSL when its popularity its so low ?
On June 13 2012 16:19 zazone wrote: if they have trouble finding sponsors for BW, how are they going to fund a SCToo OSL when its popularity its so low ?
Blizzard monies
Doubt it...aren't there rumours of Blizzard taking 50% of OGN's revenue or something? GSL is doing just fine for sponsors, considering they just got a new one from a mainstream brand, which was higher than their previous offer (because Hot6ix stated they wanted to sponsor for another two seasons but now there's a new title sponsor).
On June 13 2012 16:19 zazone wrote: if they have trouble finding sponsors for BW, how are they going to fund a SCToo OSL when its popularity its so low ?
Blizzard monies
SC2 doesn't need Riot to be an eSport.
speaking purely anecdotal here but starcraft fans seem to be alot more dedicated to blizzard/sc2 leagues than LoL fans are to riot/LoLleagues. im sure if you look at the numbers, a larger % of people who own sc will watch sc than LoL players will watch LoL. just take a look at MLG and the proof is right there.
On June 13 2012 16:19 zazone wrote: if they have trouble finding sponsors for BW, how are they going to fund a SCToo OSL when its popularity its so low ?
Blizzard monies
SC2 doesn't need Riot to be an eSport.
speaking purely anecdotal here but starcraft fans seem to be alot more dedicated to blizzard/sc2 leagues than LoL fans are to riot/LoLleagues. im sure if you look at the numbers, a larger % of people who own sc will watch sc than LoL players will watch LoL. just take a look at MLG and the proof is right there.
Perhaps, but it being free and easy means the LoLites horriblly outnumber us starcraft fans/players.. just look at viewer numbers. Unless the various DOTA's massively dilute the market it could be where esports ends up (and if that happens I'd happily fire the shot that kills esports myself). At least HoTS looks like SC2's getting a bit more broodwar-y. Hopefully we'll get a more creative skillfull game we can all get behind it eventually!
They're accepting registrations for the qualifiers from June 15th (today) to 17th. Qualifiers occur on July 2nd and 3rd. Everyone that is a part of FXO, LG-IM, MVP, NSH, Prime, SlayerS, StarTale, TSL, ZeNEX can take part. Anyone not in those teams must be at least master league as of Season 7. Participants must have their own account and be over 12 years of age. Qualifier will be at Shindorim Technomart 3rd Floor Intel eStadium.
Qualifiers will be Bo3 on WCS Antiga Shipyard, WCS Entombed Valley, WCS Ohana
On June 15 2012 12:37 Clefairy wrote: They're accepting registrations for the qualifiers from June 15th to 17th. Qualifiers occur on July 2nd and 3rd. Everyone that is a part of FXO, LG-IM, MVP, NSH, Prime, SlayerS, StarTale, TSL, ZeNEX can take part. Anyone not in those teams must be at least master league as of Season 7. Participants must have their own account and be over 12 years of age.
Qualifiers will be Bo3 on WCS Antiga Shipyard, WCS Entombed Valley, WCS Ohana
Are there any KR GM foreigners? It would be especially interesting to see a foreigner do well in the OSL.
On June 15 2012 12:37 Clefairy wrote: They're accepting registrations for the qualifiers from June 15th to 17th. Qualifiers occur on July 2nd and 3rd. Everyone that is a part of FXO, LG-IM, MVP, NSH, Prime, SlayerS, StarTale, TSL, ZeNEX can take part. Anyone not in those teams must be at least master league as of Season 7. Participants must have their own account and be over 12 years of age.
Qualifiers will be Bo3 on WCS Antiga Shipyard, WCS Entombed Valley, WCS Ohana
Are there any KR GM foreigners? It would be especially interesting to see a foreigner do well in the OSL.
On June 13 2012 16:19 zazone wrote: if they have trouble finding sponsors for BW, how are they going to fund a SCToo OSL when its popularity its so low ?
Because it's alot more popular out-side of korea, big problem with BW was that beside being a niche there was no market outside of korea.
On June 13 2012 12:02 fabiano wrote: What is wrong about progamer license?
I think having that would legitimize the profession. There must be some kind of regulation, as it is rightnow everything is a huge mess and could fall apart soon if kept that way. A central organization to setup the player/team contract parameters, to judge litigations and to organize teams is crucial.
In football we have FIFA, CONMEBOL, CONCACAF, CBF and so on (don't really know the rest :s) to keep everything organized. FIFA sets the most general rules that everyone must follow, CONMEBOL follows those rules and adjusts new ones to the reality of the south american football and CBF does the same for the reality of the brazilian football.
CBF works as a representative of the brazilian football scene in CONMEBOL, they both work together to regularize the brazilian seeds into south american leagues (Copa Libertadores, Sul Americana, etc). CONMEBOL in the other hand works with FIFA to protect/defend the south american interests in the international scene (SA seeds into WC, for example).
All these organizations work together to keep the local/regional/international football scene running healthy and organized.
If "eSports" wants to be taken seriously, the same thing should exist, but on the proper scale of course.
Well I like your point that an organization that mimics the same function of a real life sport organization should made appearance in competitive computer games . But in the end what use of it of such organizations when we are not sure which games are going to last ? Sports do not change everyday although there will be minor rules change but the game still remains the same . Competitive computer game sports change every time a developer comes out a new game in the market how is this viable and organization will be able to keep with such a change ? .
The market is just too volatile for a solid foundation to handle it right now until we can label a game that is really good and accessible to all players around the globe and they are in agreement that this is a game that is worthy of competitive computer game than it will be accepted.
While I am also part of the search for the One True Game, I don't think we need it for a form of licensing. As long as the major tournaments are involved, that'll be enough. But I also don't see any actual BENEFIT to a license system except that it makes us feel all cool. And we'd lose a lot. Without an Open Bracket, Scarlett wouldn't be a thing, for instance.
On June 15 2012 12:37 Clefairy wrote: They're accepting registrations for the qualifiers from June 15th (today) to 17th. Qualifiers occur on July 2nd and 3rd. Everyone that is a part of FXO, LG-IM, MVP, NSH, Prime, SlayerS, StarTale, TSL, ZeNEX can take part.
Do....do the BW teams not get this same treatment?
yeah it's really stupid to keep the same name that has been connected with BW for longer than a decade. So almost for sure an ex BW B-teamer/practice partner lolol will win the sc2 OSL.
On June 13 2012 12:02 fabiano wrote: What is wrong about progamer license?
I think having that would legitimize the profession. There must be some kind of regulation, as it is rightnow everything is a huge mess and could fall apart soon if kept that way. A central organization to setup the player/team contract parameters, to judge litigations and to organize teams is crucial.
In football we have FIFA, CONMEBOL, CONCACAF, CBF and so on (don't really know the rest :s) to keep everything organized. FIFA sets the most general rules that everyone must follow, CONMEBOL follows those rules and adjusts new ones to the reality of the south american football and CBF does the same for the reality of the brazilian football.
CBF works as a representative of the brazilian football scene in CONMEBOL, they both work together to regularize the brazilian seeds into south american leagues (Copa Libertadores, Sul Americana, etc). CONMEBOL in the other hand works with FIFA to protect/defend the south american interests in the international scene (SA seeds into WC, for example).
All these organizations work together to keep the local/regional/international football scene running healthy and organized.
If "eSports" wants to be taken seriously, the same thing should exist, but on the proper scale of course.
Well I like your point that an organization that mimics the same function of a real life sport organization should made appearance in competitive computer games . But in the end what use of it of such organizations when we are not sure which games are going to last ? Sports do not change everyday although there will be minor rules change but the game still remains the same . Competitive computer game sports change every time a developer comes out a new game in the market how is this viable and organization will be able to keep with such a change ? .
The market is just too volatile for a solid foundation to handle it right now until we can label a game that is really good and accessible to all players around the globe and they are in agreement that this is a game that is worthy of competitive computer game than it will be accepted.
While I am also part of the search for the One True Game, I don't think we need it for a form of licensing. As long as the major tournaments are involved, that'll be enough. But I also don't see any actual BENEFIT to a license system except that it makes us feel all cool. And we'd lose a lot. Without an Open Bracket, Scarlett wouldn't be a thing, for instance.
On June 15 2012 12:37 Clefairy wrote: They're accepting registrations for the qualifiers from June 15th (today) to 17th. Qualifiers occur on July 2nd and 3rd. Everyone that is a part of FXO, LG-IM, MVP, NSH, Prime, SlayerS, StarTale, TSL, ZeNEX can take part.
Do....do the BW teams not get this same treatment?
On June 15 2012 21:28 Spackofant wrote: Wtf i don't want this they should have changed the name or something its not an osl if its SC2
No bro, it is. That's the whole point of this article, did you not read it? Actually, after it switches to SC2, you'll be able to accurately say "It't not an OSL if it is BW." Yay!
EPT
I mean, it's great for the Sc2 community, but it officially marks the death of pro BW. 
More trophies for MVP 
![[image loading]](http://seoulspace.co.kr/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/2009-final.jpeg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/TzpV6.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/FOgLP.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.qkme.me/3p4e90.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Ik33W.png)
