EPT[?] Spades hacking? - Page 252
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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here 10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here. 08:47 KST - Summary: Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) | ||
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artanis2
United States732 Posts
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
On June 07 2012 05:21 Bellygareth wrote: The method is still correct if you take into account the multiple clics as the original finder of the method did. I'm going to quote him : "Actually, if you look at the replay, you see two clicks that are .3 apart in the x direction. This should be impossible on the minimap." He clicked 2 times very closely one to another in the fog of war. Until THAT is reproductible in the minimap, the method is correct. On June 07 2012 04:59 EtherealDeath wrote: Redone on Daybreak LE. Replay File: http://drop.sc/192624 Resolution: 1920x1080 0:09 areaHaneul Right click; target: x=131.4,y=31.1 0:09 areaHaneul Right click; target: x=131.7,y=31.1 0:10 areaHaneul Right click; target: x=131.7,y=31.1 0:11 areaHaneul Right click; target: x=131.4,y=31.1 0:11 areaHaneul Right click; target: x=131.4,y=31.1 0:11 areaHaneul Right click; target: x=131.7,y=31.1 0:12 areaHaneul Right click; target: x=131.4,y=31.1 0:12 areaHaneul Right click; target: x=131.7,y=31.1 0:18 areaHaneul Right click; target: x=133.5,y=30.0 0:18 areaHaneul Right click; target: x=133.8,y=30.0 0:24 areaHaneul Right click; target: x=131.4,y=32.2 0:24 areaHaneul Right click; target: x=131.7,y=32.2 0:24 areaHaneul Right click; target: x=131.7,y=32.2 0:25 areaHaneul Right click; target: x=131.4,y=32.2 I'll try clicking that exact spot again but 0.3 appears to be as narrow as I can get it on Daybreak ;o. Happens to be exactly what was in Spade's replay though. 0.3 distance granularity on the x, y is unchanged. | ||
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MaK UK
United Kingdom47 Posts
You don't understand, its not a matter of being able to hit that point once, but consistently. When Spades is clicking in that specific area (the fog), the variance between clicks is about .3 Whereas if you try to do it on a mini map, the average variance is around 1.4. As a redditor put it, 'His clicks were 0.3 units apart, and OP says his 1600x900 res monitor jumps 1.4 units, so Spades would need to have a monitor with like 7500x4200 for that kind of minimap precision.' | ||
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dani`
Netherlands2402 Posts
On June 07 2012 05:20 toiletCAT wrote: I'm lost - what did he do that is impossible via the mini-map, again? The idea is clicks on the minimap are transferred to the real map. However, because the minimap consists of much fewer pixels, your clicks can never be as accurate as on the real map. So the thing people are thinking is; Spades was clicking on the real map through the fog of war, but his camera was locked so the only explanation (if he's NOT hacking) would be that he is using the minimap. So people want to find some location (x, y coordinate) that he clicked which is not possible using the minimap. If they can find it at a point his camera is somewhere else, it is proof he was in fact looking in the fog of war, clicking on the real map. But it's not easy to find such a click, apparently : ) Illustration below; clicks on a small square (minimap) are transferred to a big square. Obviously, the bigger squares have more pixels so you can click much more accurately on it. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/to9KW.png) | ||
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Bellygareth
France512 Posts
On June 07 2012 05:24 recallsm wrote: I'm pretty sure someone a couple of posts above did a 0.3 difference via clicking on the minimap on daybreak. Dang sorry all those data confused me :S. Well back to the drawing board  | ||
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Kyrillion
Russian Federation748 Posts
On June 05 2012 12:21 teamsolid wrote: You do realize Hayder was a former maphacker right? Cheating is really much more common than you'd think. Unless what is written there is complete lie, Liquipedia begs to disagree. | ||
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
On June 07 2012 05:25 artanis2 wrote: This would be a lot easier to test with a custom mouse driver that clicked once per pixel in a specified grid range when you activated that feature. Yea, although somehow I'm clicking to better than 1 pixel granularity lol /shrug | ||
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StarStrider
United States689 Posts
On June 07 2012 05:20 toiletCAT wrote: I'm lost - what did he do that is impossible via the mini-map, again? Nothing has been shown to be conclusive yet. The method didn't really pan out as it was theorized it would. | ||
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toiletCAT
Qatar284 Posts
On June 07 2012 05:22 artanis2 wrote: The idea was that some of his clicks made "via minimap" or "during camera lock" were too close together to have been made by clicking on the minimap. As if he were actually clicking on the terrain. It has been debunked so far, but there might be another way to analyze it. But you cannot do anything during Camera Lock, it prevents the user from doing anything apart from moving around with his or her screen. + Show Spoiler + If that's your point, then I'm still missing something, haha. Wait, are we talking about the Camera Lock included in the hack, or in the Replay Menu? | ||
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dani`
Netherlands2402 Posts
On June 07 2012 05:25 Kyrillion wrote: Unless what is written there is complete lie, Liquipedia begs to disagree. Check his BW Liquipedia: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/HayprO Was caught using Oblivion hack in the spring 2008. Claimed it was unintentional but was kicked out of the Swedish National team and ToT for a year before he got back into both. | ||
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phatz
Norway17 Posts
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artanis2
United States732 Posts
On June 07 2012 05:25 MaK UK wrote: You don't understand, its not a matter of being able to hit that point once, but consistently. When Spades is clicking in that specific area (the fog), the variance between clicks is about .3 Whereas if you try to do it on a mini map, the average variance is around 1.4. As a redditor put it, 'His clicks were 0.3 units apart, and OP says his 1600x900 res monitor jumps 1.4 units, so Spades would need to have a monitor with like 7500x4200 for that kind of minimap precision.' Yes, but this has been debunked. Myself and others were able to achieve results 0.3 apart via the minimap, but it was odd. The x axis grid increases by the following sequence. 0.3 0.3 0.3 1.3 0.3 0.3 0.3 1.3 according to the data pulled out of my replay here: On June 07 2012 04:57 artanis2 wrote: Here is my test on daybreak: http://drop.sc/192623 Here are the results sorted by x coord: http://pastebin.com/eiZT5uRP I was able to hit the x coordinates: 117.3 117.6 117.9, etc. and on the 117.9 x-axis: 117.9 71.2 117.9 71.8 117.9 72.5 117.9 73.0 117.9 73.6 | ||
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Bellygareth
France512 Posts
Edit : just saw that camera lock prevented actions. Is selecting even possible? | ||
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StarStrider
United States689 Posts
On June 07 2012 05:26 toiletCAT wrote: But you cannot do anything during Camera Lock, it prevents the user from doing anything apart from moving around with his or her screen. + Show Spoiler + If that's your point, then I'm still missing something, haha. Wait, are we talking about the Camera Lock included in the hack, or in the Replay Menu? As I understand it the camera lock simply locks your view in place. You can still do everything you can do normally, however your screen won't show you looking around on the replay, and doesn't snap to what you are really looking at until you look at something you have vision of, or override the lock by making a command (right click, build cmd, etc) | ||
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dani`
Netherlands2402 Posts
On June 07 2012 05:27 phatz wrote: You guys realize you cannot perform any action while under cameralock, right? Totally forgot about it. Is it confirmed true with every cameralock? Cause then obviously we can stop this pixel finding campaign. | ||
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
On June 07 2012 05:26 toiletCAT wrote: But you cannot do anything during Camera Lock, it prevents the user from doing anything apart from moving around with his or her screen. + Show Spoiler + If that's your point, then I'm still missing something, haha. Wait, are we talking about the Camera Lock included in the hack, or in the Replay Menu? The only way to prove he wasn't using Camera Lock would be him using the minimap. If they prove the clicks aren't valid via the minimap, it proves he is using Camera Lock. Quite frankly its pointless imo. Why would Spades play via the minimap in his showmatch vs Lucifron but in practice and on stream, he always goes through the Fog of War? Doesn't make sense, unless he was using Camera Lock to hide him looking into Fog of War because he is maphacking. | ||
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toiletCAT
Qatar284 Posts
On June 07 2012 05:29 Bellygareth wrote: Can't you actually see if he selects enemy units in the fog of war? Is that event registered? Edit : just saw that camera lock prevented actions. Is selecting even possible? Not during Camera Lock -- if we're talking about the Camera Lock incl. in the hack -- it basically works like this; you hold Middle Mouse Button and you move your screen around to look at your opponents stuff. If you then watch a replay, it won't show you moving around your camera, because it will be locked to the position where you hit your Middle Mouse Button. | ||
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artanis2
United States732 Posts
On June 07 2012 05:29 Bellygareth wrote: Can't you actually see if he selects enemy units in the fog of war? Is that event registered? Edit : just saw that camera lock prevented actions. Is selecting even possible? The known hack that most of spades' defenders refer to does not allow selection while camera locked, and may disable the camera lock automatically when an action is performed. The likelyhood of a pro player using the commonly available noob hack is very very unlikely though. People need to stop referring to it like it is the only hack available. Private hacks are common among pro gaming communities. | ||
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navy
Canada197 Posts
NVM | ||
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mrk1
91 Posts
On June 07 2012 05:31 dani` wrote: Totally forgot about it. Is it confirmed true with every cameralock? Cause then obviously we can stop this pixel finding campaign. No, this is not confirmed. Someone posted a link to hacking forum where they said different hacks have different camera locks - some allow some don't. | ||
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