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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here.08:47 KST - Summary:Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) |
On June 07 2012 05:29 Bellygareth wrote:
Can't you actually see if he selects enemy units in the fog of war? Is that event registered?
Edit : just saw that camera lock prevented actions. Is selecting even possible?
Selecting a unit while camera lock is on will reset the camera, returning it to where it was before it got locked.
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On June 07 2012 05:31 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 05:26 toiletCAT wrote:On June 07 2012 05:22 artanis2 wrote:On June 07 2012 05:20 toiletCAT wrote:On June 07 2012 05:18 revel8 wrote:On June 07 2012 05:15 StarStrider wrote:
So what I'm gathering is that, while at first this method seemed to allow us to determine if he clicked with minimap, now it is being shown to be inconclusive? No. I think it means that that particular click location was possible via the mini-map and not incriminating. I think the principle still stands that Spades may have made a click that is impossible via the mini-map. The trick is finding such an incriminating click. I'm lost - what did he do that is impossible via the mini-map, again? The idea was that some of his clicks made "via minimap" or "during camera lock" were too close together to have been made by clicking on the minimap. As if he were actually clicking on the terrain. It has been debunked so far, but there might be another way to analyze it. But you cannot do anything during Camera Lock, it prevents the user from doing anything apart from moving around with his or her screen. + Show Spoiler +If that's your point, then I'm still missing something, haha. Wait, are we talking about the Camera Lock included in the hack, or in the Replay Menu? The only way to prove he wasn't using Camera Lock would be him using the minimap. If they prove the clicks aren't valid via the minimap, it proves he is using Camera Lock. Quite frankly its pointless imo. Why would Spades play via the minimap in his showmatch vs Lucifron but in practice and on stream, he always goes through the Fog of War? Doesn't make sense, unless he was using Camera Lock to hide him looking into Fog of War because he is maphacking.
He cannot issue commands on the minimap during Camera Lock. And I don't know why he would, a lot of the shit he does, doesn't make sense.
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On June 07 2012 05:33 navy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 05:19 ch33psh33p wrote:On June 07 2012 05:10 EtherealDeath wrote:On June 07 2012 05:00 Shiori wrote:
Has anyone been able to get (117.9, 73.1)? Here you go, on the second click on my first try to find the general area of the point I hit it. http://drop.sc/1926260:15 areaHaneul Right click; target: x=117.9,y=71.3 0:16 areaHaneul Right click; target: x=117.9,y=73.1 More people need to see this please. Re-quoting for great justice, more people need to see this. Just to summarize again, if he is queuing his units by clicking on the minimap, in a particular instance, the precision with which he orders them is not possible on normal monitors because of the minimum distance (a pixel) by which the cursor can move. Hence, unless he is using a gigantic monitor, he is hacking, or needs to explain how he did this.
This is false. Read the previous page of this thread.
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On June 07 2012 05:33 navy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 05:19 ch33psh33p wrote:On June 07 2012 05:10 EtherealDeath wrote:On June 07 2012 05:00 Shiori wrote:
Has anyone been able to get (117.9, 73.1)? Here you go, on the second click on my first try to find the general area of the point I hit it. http://drop.sc/1926260:15 areaHaneul Right click; target: x=117.9,y=71.3 0:16 areaHaneul Right click; target: x=117.9,y=73.1 More people need to see this please. Re-quoting for great justice, more people need to see this. Just to summarize again, if he is queuing his units by clicking on the minimap, in a particular instance, the precision with which he orders them is not possible on normal monitors because of the minimum distance (a pixel) by which the cursor can move. Hence, unless he is using a gigantic monitor, he is hacking, or needs to explain how he did this.
Dude, I just showed that shit is bogus, not only can I click to his accuracy or better, I can even hit that exact spot. Way to completely misinterpret my posts. Btw I'm on a 17.3" monitor at 1920x1080.
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Whelp, it looks like some people are claiming the two methods I outlined aren't always consistent. I have to go do other stuff now, but good luck and happy testing. I'll check back later!
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On June 07 2012 05:27 dani` wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 05:25 Kyrillion wrote:On June 05 2012 12:21 teamsolid wrote:On June 05 2012 12:19 Psychonian wrote:
....Guys? What would we do if it turned out there was a liquid' maphacker? I know it sounds horrible but....what would we do? You do realize Hayder was a former maphacker right? Cheating is really much more common than you'd think. Unless what is written there is complete lie, Liquipedia begs to disagree. Check his BW Liquipedia: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/HayprOShow nested quote +
Was caught using Oblivion hack in the spring 2008. Claimed it was unintentional but was kicked out of the Swedish National team and ToT for a year before he got back into both.
He was proven to have had oblivion turned on in one replay which he admitted and had a plausible explanation for.
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On June 07 2012 05:35 artanis2 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 05:33 navy wrote:On June 07 2012 05:19 ch33psh33p wrote:On June 07 2012 05:10 EtherealDeath wrote:On June 07 2012 05:00 Shiori wrote:
Has anyone been able to get (117.9, 73.1)? Here you go, on the second click on my first try to find the general area of the point I hit it. http://drop.sc/1926260:15 areaHaneul Right click; target: x=117.9,y=71.3 0:16 areaHaneul Right click; target: x=117.9,y=73.1 More people need to see this please. Re-quoting for great justice, more people need to see this. Just to summarize again, if he is queuing his units by clicking on the minimap, in a particular instance, the precision with which he orders them is not possible on normal monitors because of the minimum distance (a pixel) by which the cursor can move. Hence, unless he is using a gigantic monitor, he is hacking, or needs to explain how he did this. This is false. Read the previous page of this thread.
People be so desperate that they are using evidence of uncertainty as proof of guilt these days.
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On June 07 2012 05:33 navy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 05:19 ch33psh33p wrote:On June 07 2012 05:10 EtherealDeath wrote:On June 07 2012 05:00 Shiori wrote:
Has anyone been able to get (117.9, 73.1)? Here you go, on the second click on my first try to find the general area of the point I hit it. http://drop.sc/1926260:15 areaHaneul Right click; target: x=117.9,y=71.3 0:16 areaHaneul Right click; target: x=117.9,y=73.1 More people need to see this please. Re-quoting for great justice, more people need to see this. Just to summarize again, if he is queuing his units by clicking on the minimap, in a particular instance, the precision with which he orders them is not possible on normal monitors because of the minimum distance (a pixel) by which the cursor can move. Hence, unless he is using a gigantic monitor, he is hacking, or needs to explain how he did this.
I think you're misreading the post. I understand your idea, but I think what Shiori wrote was saying that yes, indeed he was able to hit that coordinate on the grid by using the minimap to click, which confirms that it is at least possible to hit coords on the minimap that you can hit on the big map, albeit very hard.
Or am I wrong?
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On June 07 2012 05:32 artanis2 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 05:29 Bellygareth wrote:
Can't you actually see if he selects enemy units in the fog of war? Is that event registered?
Edit : just saw that camera lock prevented actions. Is selecting even possible? The known hack that most of spades' defenders refer to does not allow selection while camera locked, and may disable the camera lock automatically when an action is performed. The likelyhood of a pro player using the commonly available noob hack is very very unlikely though. People need to stop referring to it like it is the only hack available. Private hacks are common among pro gaming communities.
Please stop referring to us as "defenders", because quite frankly, we couldn't care less about Spades. We want you to stop jumping to conclusions without proof, we don't care if he's a hacker or not.
Once again, for, I don't know, the 7th time, I personally think that his play suggests that he's hacking, but unlike you, I refuse to jump to a conclusion before I know for sure.
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Can someone points me to some spades replay fom the 100 May replays where the FoW is used somuch please.
Did go through some of the ones nearest to the showmatch date, and couldnt see any of it as much as posters claim, those felt more like in the luci match.
Alternative to a post in this thread where the replays in question are explicitely listed?
(I'll admit I may have skipped several pages cause a normal human cant keep up at prime time with actual reading)
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On June 07 2012 05:33 phatz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 05:29 Bellygareth wrote:
Can't you actually see if he selects enemy units in the fog of war? Is that event registered?
Edit : just saw that camera lock prevented actions. Is selecting even possible? Selecting a unit while camera lock is on will reset the camera, returning it to where it was before it got locked.
Quoting myself here, people are talking about a a hack that allows actions under cameralock, can you please link a source? I am pretty sure issuing commands while under cameralock would be technically detectable by warden if they look for it. All free AND commercial (pay for hack, found one that costs 60 USD), prevent this while under cameralock. I dont however have the answer for whether this is due to limitation in coding from the maker, or the sc2 engine would flag this via warden, or if its just not possible.
If such a hack exists it would be PRIVATE, meaning you'll never find it online. I have found no such proof on any of the sites ive been lurking since this came up.
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On June 07 2012 05:33 toiletCAT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 05:31 jmbthirteen wrote:On June 07 2012 05:26 toiletCAT wrote:On June 07 2012 05:22 artanis2 wrote:On June 07 2012 05:20 toiletCAT wrote:On June 07 2012 05:18 revel8 wrote:On June 07 2012 05:15 StarStrider wrote:
So what I'm gathering is that, while at first this method seemed to allow us to determine if he clicked with minimap, now it is being shown to be inconclusive? No. I think it means that that particular click location was possible via the mini-map and not incriminating. I think the principle still stands that Spades may have made a click that is impossible via the mini-map. The trick is finding such an incriminating click. I'm lost - what did he do that is impossible via the mini-map, again? The idea was that some of his clicks made "via minimap" or "during camera lock" were too close together to have been made by clicking on the minimap. As if he were actually clicking on the terrain. It has been debunked so far, but there might be another way to analyze it. But you cannot do anything during Camera Lock, it prevents the user from doing anything apart from moving around with his or her screen. + Show Spoiler +If that's your point, then I'm still missing something, haha. Wait, are we talking about the Camera Lock included in the hack, or in the Replay Menu? The only way to prove he wasn't using Camera Lock would be him using the minimap. If they prove the clicks aren't valid via the minimap, it proves he is using Camera Lock. Quite frankly its pointless imo. Why would Spades play via the minimap in his showmatch vs Lucifron but in practice and on stream, he always goes through the Fog of War? Doesn't make sense, unless he was using Camera Lock to hide him looking into Fog of War because he is maphacking. He cannot issue commands on the minimap during Camera Lock. And I don't know why he would, a lot of the shit he does, doesn't make sense.
He uses minimap to move around his armies almost exclusively in his other replays as well, likely a habit from his BW days.
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On June 07 2012 05:33 toiletCAT wrote:
He cannot issue commands on the minimap during Camera Lock.
How do you know this good sir? Unless you are very familiar with every possible hack and how it works then you can't make definitive statements like this.
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Time for EtherealDeath to do some clicking in all of them maps and compare with the clicks shown in the replays, show that chinese perserverance, dooooo it, gahahahah.
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On June 07 2012 05:40 StarStrider wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 05:33 toiletCAT wrote:
He cannot issue commands on the minimap during Camera Lock.
How do you know this good sir? Unless you are very familiar with every possible hack and how it works then you can't make definitive statements like this.
I'm familiar with this particular hack.
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On June 07 2012 05:27 phatz wrote:
You guys realize you cannot perform any action while under cameralock, right?
First, it has been implied (earlier in this thread) that Spades was using a more sophisticated hack that only a few have access too.
Second, you can still cycle through your buildings and army to remain active during the camera locks.
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On June 07 2012 05:41 toiletCAT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 05:40 StarStrider wrote:On June 07 2012 05:33 toiletCAT wrote:
He cannot issue commands on the minimap during Camera Lock.
How do you know this good sir? Unless you are very familiar with every possible hack and how it works then you can't make definitive statements like this. I'm familiar with this particular hack.
Sure. You must also know if spades really is a hacker then?
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On June 07 2012 05:41 toiletCAT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 05:40 StarStrider wrote:On June 07 2012 05:33 toiletCAT wrote:
He cannot issue commands on the minimap during Camera Lock.
How do you know this good sir? Unless you are very familiar with every possible hack and how it works then you can't make definitive statements like this. I'm familiar with this particular hack.
Is there a possibility that he isn't using the particular hack that you are familiar with? One that can do something that the one you're familiar with doesn't do?
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On June 07 2012 05:40 IshinShishi wrote:
Time for EtherealDeath to do some clicking in all of them maps and compare with the clicks shown in the replays, show that chinese perserverance, dooooo it, gahahahah.
-_-;;
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On June 07 2012 05:42 Roxor9999 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 05:41 toiletCAT wrote:On June 07 2012 05:40 StarStrider wrote:On June 07 2012 05:33 toiletCAT wrote:
He cannot issue commands on the minimap during Camera Lock.
How do you know this good sir? Unless you are very familiar with every possible hack and how it works then you can't make definitive statements like this. I'm familiar with this particular hack. Sure. You must also know if spades really is a hacker then?
No, because I can't tell whether or not he's hacking. The hack includes functions such as auto-inject for Queens, auto-Blink for Stalkers, auto-Burrow, auto-SCV/Probe production, auto-Transfuse.
I haven't spotted a single automated command in a single replay with Spades, so all I can say is; he's not using automated commands.
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EPT
