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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here 10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here. 08:47 KST - Summary: Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) | ||
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IcedBacon
Canada906 Posts
On June 06 2012 07:24 Greenei wrote: which proplayer, that has already reviewed the material is STILL saying he's not hacking? i have only seen posts, that say he's hacking for along time. AFAIK only Nerchio says he's not hacking. Edit: Right, Attero. But pretty sure he just went and chimed in without actually looking at any replays. | ||
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
In the end I doubt we will even know for sure but I still think this kind of accusations don´t have to be taken lightly either way. Suspicious behavior is not enoguh to confirm anything | ||
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StarStrider
United States689 Posts
On June 06 2012 07:23 chebhe wrote: And I don't really care what you prefer. Go rally your mod friends and get me banned if you want me to go away. Else I'm staying put. Your posts are turning to shit now. | ||
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hnQ
113 Posts
On June 06 2012 07:25 IcedBacon wrote: AFAIK only Nerchio says he's not hacking. Edit: Right, Attero. But pretty sure he just went and chimed in without actually looking at any replays. attero said he look into the replays for 2 hours and saw CatZ's VoDs | ||
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gzo
United States55 Posts
On June 06 2012 07:20 jacksonlee wrote: http://www.twitch.tv/rootcatz/b/320407912 go to 1:13:50 that's just one example The consensus is that if you're issuing a command in a complete fog of war location that it will show the player viewing the location, but that might be too much of a cop out, so would you like to provide the other examples where he was viewing a full screen of fog of war? As far as I know there is only one other instance of this happening, except he barely has vision of his base at the top-right corner of his screen, which proves that to be false. | ||
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Fyrewolf
United States1533 Posts
On June 06 2012 07:20 chebhe wrote: Then name some of those fishy things they did not cover, instead of vaguely alluding to them. There are nonfishy things, fuck ups that cost him games. How about we start analyzing his replays for all the fuck ups he makes? I'm not going to bother responding and explaining to obvious trolls who wouldn't understand anyway and are trying to derail the thread with inane irrelevant bullshit as evidenced in your responses to people in this thread. | ||
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sureshot_
United States257 Posts
THERE IS NO SOLID, CONCRETE EVIDENCE. Most of the time there never is. Stop arguing whether or not he performed some decisive action that confirms he's a hacker. It's the above circumstantial evidence, and loads of it, which proves to the majority of the community that he's a hacker. | ||
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Cheater23
United States34 Posts
But also after seeing how people have reacted, I don't believe he would attempt to do it again. (Or at least a logical person wouldn't.) I believe the problem has solved itself for the moment, and nothing can be done until people a little higher up investigate it themselves. | ||
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Trusty
New Zealand520 Posts
Whether he cheated or not, victimising yourself is just.... bad...... | ||
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TaKemE
Denmark1045 Posts
On June 06 2012 07:25 IcedBacon wrote: AFAIK only Nerchio says he's not hacking. Edit: Right, Attero. But pretty sure he just went and chimed in without actually looking at any replays. No Attero is one of those who used most time on replays I think: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342638¤tpage=23#444 | ||
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Crowned
United States368 Posts
On June 06 2012 07:29 Cheater23 wrote: After seeing many of the replays, I too believe that he was hacking. But also after seeing how people have reacted, I don't believe he would attempt to do it again. (Or at least a logical person wouldn't.) I believe the problem has solved itself for the moment, and nothing can be done until people a little higher up investigate it themselves. He was caught in Broodwar and attempted it again now. | ||
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IcedBacon
Canada906 Posts
On June 06 2012 07:27 hnQ wrote: attero said he look into the replays for 2 hours and saw CatZ's VoDs Ah alright, my bad then. | ||
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chebhe
United States113 Posts
On June 06 2012 07:24 Positronic wrote: So I suppose your logic also extends to Illusion, Painuser, Idra, Drewbie, TT1, and others who have said his behavior is extremely suspicious, if not downright conclusive of maphacking. If they say they conclusively know, then yes. They act like they know more than they actually do. If they say it's suspicious, then I might agree with them. But I think that suspicious behavior can be found in replays if you look for it. Especially if the player has a tendency to second guess things / make good assumptions / take risks. And suspicion is not enough for me to base a conclusion on. That's because I am responsible with my how I influence others. | ||
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jacksonlee
175 Posts
On June 06 2012 07:27 gzo wrote: The consensus is that if you're issuing a command in a complete fog of war location that it will show the player viewing the location, but that might be too much of a cop out, so would you like to provide the other examples where he was viewing a full screen of fog of war? As far as I know there is only one other instance of this happening, except he barely has vision of his base at the top-right corner of his screen, which proves that to be false. Sure, 1:16:40 where he puts his CC at third | ||
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TheRealPaciFist
United States1049 Posts
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StarStrider
United States689 Posts
On June 06 2012 07:24 s4life wrote: You insult me for my oversight and then went on and stated the same thing in the second paragraph. How do you suppose he proactively tries to clear his name without offering concrete proof he didn't maphack?, because as we've agreed he is unable to do so.. I insulted you for your oversight after you insulted me because of your oversight. I apologize. Let's move on. He can clear his name by responding to specific points that have been asked of him to respond to. Will it definitively exhonerate him by doing this? No people will still hold opinions against him. But it would definitely be much more constructive to his case than flaming his former teammates and playing the victim, which is suspiciously the exact same way he responded last time he was accused of cheating in BW. And that was proven. | ||
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kalteras
United States72 Posts
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chebhe
United States113 Posts
On June 06 2012 07:28 Fyrewolf wrote: I'm not going to bother responding and explaining to obvious trolls who wouldn't understand anyway and are trying to derail the thread with inane irrelevant bullshit as evidenced in your responses to people in this thread. Trying to derail an inane bullshit thread, with inane bullshit... Doesn't that cancel out, or something?... Nevermind, don't bother to respond. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
On June 06 2012 07:31 TheRealPaciFist wrote: I hope that, though Spades left WW, that WW is still investigating the situation and getting opinions from other, unbiased pros. It would set a bad precedent to leave this unresolved just because Spades left the team. This isn't over yet. Unless top 6 is Foreigners only, people will still talk about this after MLG. | ||
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Positronic
121 Posts
On June 06 2012 07:30 chebhe wrote: If they say they conclusively know, then yes. They act like they know more than they actually do. If they say it's suspicious, then I might agree with them. But I think that suspicious behavior can be found in replays if you look for it. Especially if the player has a tendency to second guess things / make good assumptions / take risks. And suspicion is not enough for me to base a conclusion on. That's because I am responsible with my how I influence others. All of them have said many of Spades' action were very suspicious, in addition to Avilo and Incontrol. I could go through this thread and find the posts by all of them to find the posts specifically but you could easily do that using search. The pros who have defended Spades until this point have been cArn, Attero, and Nerchio from what I remember. I do agree with your point that suspicious behavior can be found in many replays if you look for it, but some of the actions that Spades took in his games vs Lucifron were downright EXTREMELY suspicious, the shadow boxing of armies at watch towers, etc. | ||
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