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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here.08:47 KST - Summary:Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) |
On June 06 2012 07:47 Aunvilgod wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 07:25 hnQ wrote:On June 06 2012 07:24 Greenei wrote:On June 06 2012 07:16 hnQ wrote:
Guys,
there are PROS here supporting that he was hacking
there are OTHER PROS supporting he most likely wasn't
even in high level players there is doubt and inconclusive opinions so why are you all saying HE WAS HACKING like it was a fact? it's not, he's innocent until proven guilty
ALSO even on CATZ STREAM he looked into FOW (which they said he turned the hacks off while at it lol?) so why do you keep saying he NEVER did it?
such a weird accusation which proplayer, that has already reviewed the material is STILL saying he's not hacking? i have only seen posts, that say he's hacking for along time. Nerchio and Attero are the ones who I can remember right now Nerchio says that the OP is not right in EVERY case. But he did not explain the hard stuff like the scan on Shakuras.
CatZ also says he NEVER looks into FOW and when he actually does he claims he must've turned it off
I'm not saying he didn't hack, just trying not to bandwagon as much.
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On June 06 2012 07:47 itsjuspeter wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 07:45 chebhe wrote:On June 06 2012 07:41 StarStrider wrote:On June 06 2012 07:39 chebhe wrote:On June 06 2012 07:37 StarStrider wrote:On June 06 2012 07:34 chebhe wrote:On June 06 2012 07:27 StarStrider wrote:On June 06 2012 07:23 chebhe wrote:On June 06 2012 07:23 itsjuspeter wrote:On June 06 2012 07:17 chebhe wrote:
[quote]
Yes. Innocent until proven guilty. Not a hard concept. I'd prefer this to be the last response to someone with a low post count/recent join date. Again, your standards for evidence is alarmingly high. In the real world there will most likely never be 100% proof unless the suspect openly admits he did what he was accused of. It is indeed true we cannot say for 100% that he maphacked but the OVERWHELMING amount of evidence tips n the favor of him doing it. His "playing the victim" responses instead of going "hey look I didn't hack and here is why" really doesn't help his case. We will never hit 100% proof but we can get close to unreasonable doubt that he did which is what many believe is where the evidence is at and thus we believe Spades does hack. Your continued posting and low understanding of mechanics as well as incredibly ridiculous standards for evidence needs to end. Hiding behind the wall of 100% proof isn't good enough anymore. And I don't really care what you prefer. Go rally your mod friends and get me banned if you want me to go away. Else I'm staying put. Your posts are turning to shit now. Because I'm responding to you. You're focusing on pure garbage now and not the issue. The evidence and what story it tells. See my previous post to you. If you want to discuss the evidence, I'd be happy to. But I think it has already been discussed enough, and most agree that it is condemning when you consider it as a whole. Did you watch the set that Illusion posted in the IPL5 quals vs Theognis? You will see the same foul play there. 100 percent proof has nothing to do with it, no one is imposing a 100 percent standard of proof. You made that up to imply absurdity in my position, yet I never subscribed to it. So if you see shit, or garbage, it's just your reflection in the mirror. I don't think we even have any good evidence for it. And alot of people agree with me. You don't like it? I don't care. Go away. You do realize I'm not itsjustpeter right? You just copypasted your response to what he wrote onto your response to me. Your lack of effort is astounding. How much of the evidence did you actually review besides CatZ stream before you came to your decision on this issue? If you're quoting me, butting in to our conversation and siding with him; acting as a voice for his position, consider it a statement to both of you. You're all carbon copies of eachother anyway, rehashing what other people say. This whole thread is nothing but mob-think. Why does the quality of your posts continue to diminish? You turn away from the mechanical question and numerous people have tried to inform you yet you dodge any attempt at a discussion and instead take jabs at people and tell them to fuck off if they don't like it. It is people like you that any attempt or effort is wasted. I really hope I'm not the only one tired of you and want you gone.
Im with you on this one. Guy is just trolling. It is like a discussion between atheists and religious people, and chebhe is a religious guy.
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I am not exactly sure what the verdict here is. I am sure of that spades will have a hurt career from this and it will be hard to come back from that. Lance Armstrong had to deal with tons of lies spread mostly by the French government because of his string of victories. The only hope spades really has is to keep playing games and go beyond the current requirements for streamers. If this means he has to set up a camera watching him play and go with that for the rest of his career, then that is that. Lance Armstrong had to constantly submit random drug tests and samples in order to keep his reputation alive.
It sucks that his ability to make money is hurt like this, but it is his past people will look at first and that is what he has to deal with.
If Spades wins a few live lan tournaments people will probably drop this issue completely except for a few trolls. Work hard at fixing your reputation, Spades, make people feel silly.
That said, if you are hacking. Why would you do that man? That is just bad form.
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On June 06 2012 07:44 jacksonlee wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 07:42 TheBanana wrote:On June 06 2012 07:20 jacksonlee wrote:On June 06 2012 07:16 nath wrote:On June 06 2012 07:08 Trumpet wrote:Really should have done this the BW way. in BW, the maphack disabled you from clicking opponent's units/buildings so that your click wouldnt get registered and show up as an obvious maphack on replay analyzer. So the conclusive proof then became getting large amounts of replays of someone and having them never click an enemy unit in a large amount of games. The same could be used here, if he never looked at fog of war in his games, not even once for a scan or scout or something, then it'd be pretty obvious. Has anyone done this? I'm not about to read through 200+ pages to check  well he didnt look in fog of war once in the bo7. that was one of the points that was not in his favor. http://www.twitch.tv/rootcatz/b/320407912go to 1:13:50 that's just one example I'm pretty sure the part explaining from 0:31:30 debunks your example and knocks you back down to zero. Specifically 0:31:44. Like I said, that's one example. In the same game, around 1:16:30 to 1:16:50, he checks fog of war on the right side of minimap without a single command, and when he builds comman center at his third at 1:16:40 he never right clicks
Making a command center is a command though. Could you be specific about the second where he checks without a single command? Because I don't see it, it may be because that part is x8.
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On June 06 2012 07:45 chebhe wrote:Watch your fucking mouth. No one is demanding 100 percent certainty. That is what the post you quoted says. Learn to read, fuckface. Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 07:41 StarStrider wrote:On June 06 2012 07:39 chebhe wrote:On June 06 2012 07:37 StarStrider wrote:On June 06 2012 07:34 chebhe wrote:On June 06 2012 07:27 StarStrider wrote:On June 06 2012 07:23 chebhe wrote:On June 06 2012 07:23 itsjuspeter wrote:On June 06 2012 07:17 chebhe wrote:On June 06 2012 07:16 hnQ wrote:
Guys,
there are PROS here supporting that he was hacking
there are OTHER PROS supporting he most likely wasn't
even in high level players there is doubt and inconclusive opinions so why are you all saying HE WAS HACKING like it was a fact? it's not, he's innocent until proven guilty Yes. Innocent until proven guilty. Not a hard concept. I'd prefer this to be the last response to someone with a low post count/recent join date. Again, your standards for evidence is alarmingly high. In the real world there will most likely never be 100% proof unless the suspect openly admits he did what he was accused of. It is indeed true we cannot say for 100% that he maphacked but the OVERWHELMING amount of evidence tips n the favor of him doing it. His "playing the victim" responses instead of going "hey look I didn't hack and here is why" really doesn't help his case. We will never hit 100% proof but we can get close to unreasonable doubt that he did which is what many believe is where the evidence is at and thus we believe Spades does hack. Your continued posting and low understanding of mechanics as well as incredibly ridiculous standards for evidence needs to end. Hiding behind the wall of 100% proof isn't good enough anymore. And I don't really care what you prefer. Go rally your mod friends and get me banned if you want me to go away. Else I'm staying put. Your posts are turning to shit now. Because I'm responding to you. You're focusing on pure garbage now and not the issue. The evidence and what story it tells. See my previous post to you. If you want to discuss the evidence, I'd be happy to. But I think it has already been discussed enough, and most agree that it is condemning when you consider it as a whole. Did you watch the set that Illusion posted in the IPL5 quals vs Theognis? You will see the same foul play there. 100 percent proof has nothing to do with it, no one is imposing a 100 percent standard of proof. You made that up to imply absurdity in my position, yet I never subscribed to it. So if you see shit, or garbage, it's just your reflection in the mirror. I don't think we even have any good evidence for it. And alot of people agree with me. You don't like it? I don't care. Go away. You do realize I'm not itsjustpeter right? You just copypasted your response to what he wrote onto your response to me. Your lack of effort is astounding. How much of the evidence did you actually review besides CatZ stream before you came to your decision on this issue? If you're quoting me, butting in to our conversation and siding with him; acting as a voice for his position, consider it a statement to both of you. You're all carbon copies of eachother anyway, rehashing what other people say. This whole thread is nothing but mob-think.
Telling someone to watch their mouth, and then calling them fuckface. Classy.
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On June 06 2012 06:57 jacksonlee wrote:
Am I the only person who didn't think any of Catz' analysis was definite evidence? One moment he's like, "oh he can't look in fog of war", next he's like "here he is looking at fog of war, he must've turned it off." what...
That was only when Catz was comparing the accused games against his actual ladder games to show the difference in play style. Learn to listen more or dont post stupid stuff like this as you have no idea what your bringing up as its 2 different games 1 was the accused games showing he never looked there at all and the other was a ladder game where he was looking which ment he wasnt using the hack in that ladder game. Get your facts straight before embarassing yourself with posts like these
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On June 06 2012 07:45 chebhe wrote:Watch your fucking mouth. No one is demanding 100 percent certainty. That is what the post you quoted says. Think about what you read.Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 07:41 StarStrider wrote:On June 06 2012 07:39 chebhe wrote:On June 06 2012 07:37 StarStrider wrote:On June 06 2012 07:34 chebhe wrote:On June 06 2012 07:27 StarStrider wrote:On June 06 2012 07:23 chebhe wrote:On June 06 2012 07:23 itsjuspeter wrote:On June 06 2012 07:17 chebhe wrote:On June 06 2012 07:16 hnQ wrote:
Guys,
there are PROS here supporting that he was hacking
there are OTHER PROS supporting he most likely wasn't
even in high level players there is doubt and inconclusive opinions so why are you all saying HE WAS HACKING like it was a fact? it's not, he's innocent until proven guilty Yes. Innocent until proven guilty. Not a hard concept. I'd prefer this to be the last response to someone with a low post count/recent join date. Again, your standards for evidence is alarmingly high. In the real world there will most likely never be 100% proof unless the suspect openly admits he did what he was accused of. It is indeed true we cannot say for 100% that he maphacked but the OVERWHELMING amount of evidence tips n the favor of him doing it. His "playing the victim" responses instead of going "hey look I didn't hack and here is why" really doesn't help his case. We will never hit 100% proof but we can get close to unreasonable doubt that he did which is what many believe is where the evidence is at and thus we believe Spades does hack. Your continued posting and low understanding of mechanics as well as incredibly ridiculous standards for evidence needs to end. Hiding behind the wall of 100% proof isn't good enough anymore. And I don't really care what you prefer. Go rally your mod friends and get me banned if you want me to go away. Else I'm staying put. Your posts are turning to shit now. Because I'm responding to you. You're focusing on pure garbage now and not the issue. The evidence and what story it tells. See my previous post to you. If you want to discuss the evidence, I'd be happy to. But I think it has already been discussed enough, and most agree that it is condemning when you consider it as a whole. Did you watch the set that Illusion posted in the IPL5 quals vs Theognis? You will see the same foul play there. 100 percent proof has nothing to do with it, no one is imposing a 100 percent standard of proof. You made that up to imply absurdity in my position, yet I never subscribed to it. So if you see shit, or garbage, it's just your reflection in the mirror. I don't think we even have any good evidence for it. And alot of people agree with me. You don't like it? I don't care. Go away. You do realize I'm not itsjustpeter right? You just copypasted your response to what he wrote onto your response to me. Your lack of effort is astounding. How much of the evidence did you actually review besides CatZ stream before you came to your decision on this issue? If you're quoting me, butting in to our conversation and siding with him; acting as a voice for his position, consider it a statement to both of you. You're all carbon copies of eachother anyway, rehashing what other people say. This whole thread is nothing but mob-think.
Ok but Im still waiting for your answer - what would convince you that Spades cheated, if previous evidences didnt?
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On June 06 2012 07:45 chebhe wrote:Watch your fucking mouth. No one is demanding 100 percent certainty. That is what the post you quoted says. Think about what you read. Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 07:41 StarStrider wrote:On June 06 2012 07:39 chebhe wrote:On June 06 2012 07:37 StarStrider wrote:On June 06 2012 07:34 chebhe wrote:On June 06 2012 07:27 StarStrider wrote:On June 06 2012 07:23 chebhe wrote:On June 06 2012 07:23 itsjuspeter wrote:On June 06 2012 07:17 chebhe wrote:On June 06 2012 07:16 hnQ wrote:
Guys,
there are PROS here supporting that he was hacking
there are OTHER PROS supporting he most likely wasn't
even in high level players there is doubt and inconclusive opinions so why are you all saying HE WAS HACKING like it was a fact? it's not, he's innocent until proven guilty Yes. Innocent until proven guilty. Not a hard concept. I'd prefer this to be the last response to someone with a low post count/recent join date. Again, your standards for evidence is alarmingly high. In the real world there will most likely never be 100% proof unless the suspect openly admits he did what he was accused of. It is indeed true we cannot say for 100% that he maphacked but the OVERWHELMING amount of evidence tips n the favor of him doing it. His "playing the victim" responses instead of going "hey look I didn't hack and here is why" really doesn't help his case. We will never hit 100% proof but we can get close to unreasonable doubt that he did which is what many believe is where the evidence is at and thus we believe Spades does hack. Your continued posting and low understanding of mechanics as well as incredibly ridiculous standards for evidence needs to end. Hiding behind the wall of 100% proof isn't good enough anymore. And I don't really care what you prefer. Go rally your mod friends and get me banned if you want me to go away. Else I'm staying put. Your posts are turning to shit now. Because I'm responding to you. You're focusing on pure garbage now and not the issue. The evidence and what story it tells. See my previous post to you. If you want to discuss the evidence, I'd be happy to. But I think it has already been discussed enough, and most agree that it is condemning when you consider it as a whole. Did you watch the set that Illusion posted in the IPL5 quals vs Theognis? You will see the same foul play there. 100 percent proof has nothing to do with it, no one is imposing a 100 percent standard of proof. You made that up to imply absurdity in my position, yet I never subscribed to it. So if you see shit, or garbage, it's just your reflection in the mirror. I don't think we even have any good evidence for it. And alot of people agree with me. You don't like it? I don't care. Go away. You do realize I'm not itsjustpeter right? You just copypasted your response to what he wrote onto your response to me. Your lack of effort is astounding. How much of the evidence did you actually review besides CatZ stream before you came to your decision on this issue? If you're quoting me, butting in to our conversation and siding with him; acting as a voice for his position, consider it a statement to both of you. You're all carbon copies of eachother anyway, rehashing what other people say. This whole thread is nothing but mob-think.
Your ad hominem is not appreciated. I just got a TL warning for calling someone who did exactly what you did in not looking at the nested quote and seeing who they were actually responding to an idiot. But I'm not going to insult you, because your ignorance speaks enough about you already.
My opinions do not reflect the opinions of others who share the view that Spades is guilty. You are simply ignorant if you think you can broadbrush everyone into holding the same views simply because they share a common one.
You're silly. Watch my fucking mouth? Okay tough guy. LOL
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On June 06 2012 07:53 StarStrider wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 07:45 chebhe wrote:Watch your fucking mouth. No one is demanding 100 percent certainty. That is what the post you quoted says. Think about what you read. On June 06 2012 07:41 StarStrider wrote:On June 06 2012 07:39 chebhe wrote:On June 06 2012 07:37 StarStrider wrote:On June 06 2012 07:34 chebhe wrote:On June 06 2012 07:27 StarStrider wrote:On June 06 2012 07:23 chebhe wrote:On June 06 2012 07:23 itsjuspeter wrote:On June 06 2012 07:17 chebhe wrote:
[quote]
Yes. Innocent until proven guilty. Not a hard concept. I'd prefer this to be the last response to someone with a low post count/recent join date. Again, your standards for evidence is alarmingly high. In the real world there will most likely never be 100% proof unless the suspect openly admits he did what he was accused of. It is indeed true we cannot say for 100% that he maphacked but the OVERWHELMING amount of evidence tips n the favor of him doing it. His "playing the victim" responses instead of going "hey look I didn't hack and here is why" really doesn't help his case. We will never hit 100% proof but we can get close to unreasonable doubt that he did which is what many believe is where the evidence is at and thus we believe Spades does hack. Your continued posting and low understanding of mechanics as well as incredibly ridiculous standards for evidence needs to end. Hiding behind the wall of 100% proof isn't good enough anymore. And I don't really care what you prefer. Go rally your mod friends and get me banned if you want me to go away. Else I'm staying put. Your posts are turning to shit now. Because I'm responding to you. You're focusing on pure garbage now and not the issue. The evidence and what story it tells. See my previous post to you. If you want to discuss the evidence, I'd be happy to. But I think it has already been discussed enough, and most agree that it is condemning when you consider it as a whole. Did you watch the set that Illusion posted in the IPL5 quals vs Theognis? You will see the same foul play there. 100 percent proof has nothing to do with it, no one is imposing a 100 percent standard of proof. You made that up to imply absurdity in my position, yet I never subscribed to it. So if you see shit, or garbage, it's just your reflection in the mirror. I don't think we even have any good evidence for it. And alot of people agree with me. You don't like it? I don't care. Go away. You do realize I'm not itsjustpeter right? You just copypasted your response to what he wrote onto your response to me. Your lack of effort is astounding. How much of the evidence did you actually review besides CatZ stream before you came to your decision on this issue? If you're quoting me, butting in to our conversation and siding with him; acting as a voice for his position, consider it a statement to both of you. You're all carbon copies of eachother anyway, rehashing what other people say. This whole thread is nothing but mob-think. Your ad hominem is not appreciated. I just got a TL warning for calling someone who did exactly what you did in not looking at the nested quote and seeing who they were actually responding to an idiot. But I'm not going to insult you, because your ignorance speaks enough about you already. My opinions do not reflect the opinions of others who share the view that Spades is guilty. You are simply ignorant if you think you can broadbrush everyone into holding the same views simply because they share a common one. You're silly. Watch my fucking mouth? Okay tough guy. LOL
Before he edited it he called you a fuckface too. The irony is overwhelming.
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On June 06 2012 07:50 Embir wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 07:47 itsjuspeter wrote:On June 06 2012 07:45 chebhe wrote:On June 06 2012 07:41 StarStrider wrote:On June 06 2012 07:39 chebhe wrote:On June 06 2012 07:37 StarStrider wrote:On June 06 2012 07:34 chebhe wrote:On June 06 2012 07:27 StarStrider wrote:On June 06 2012 07:23 chebhe wrote:On June 06 2012 07:23 itsjuspeter wrote:
[quote]
I'd prefer this to be the last response to someone with a low post count/recent join date. Again, your standards for evidence is alarmingly high. In the real world there will most likely never be 100% proof unless the suspect openly admits he did what he was accused of. It is indeed true we cannot say for 100% that he maphacked but the OVERWHELMING amount of evidence tips n the favor of him doing it. His "playing the victim" responses instead of going "hey look I didn't hack and here is why" really doesn't help his case. We will never hit 100% proof but we can get close to unreasonable doubt that he did which is what many believe is where the evidence is at and thus we believe Spades does hack. Your continued posting and low understanding of mechanics as well as incredibly ridiculous standards for evidence needs to end. Hiding behind the wall of 100% proof isn't good enough anymore. And I don't really care what you prefer. Go rally your mod friends and get me banned if you want me to go away. Else I'm staying put. Your posts are turning to shit now. Because I'm responding to you. You're focusing on pure garbage now and not the issue. The evidence and what story it tells. See my previous post to you. If you want to discuss the evidence, I'd be happy to. But I think it has already been discussed enough, and most agree that it is condemning when you consider it as a whole. Did you watch the set that Illusion posted in the IPL5 quals vs Theognis? You will see the same foul play there. 100 percent proof has nothing to do with it, no one is imposing a 100 percent standard of proof. You made that up to imply absurdity in my position, yet I never subscribed to it. So if you see shit, or garbage, it's just your reflection in the mirror. I don't think we even have any good evidence for it. And alot of people agree with me. You don't like it? I don't care. Go away. You do realize I'm not itsjustpeter right? You just copypasted your response to what he wrote onto your response to me. Your lack of effort is astounding. How much of the evidence did you actually review besides CatZ stream before you came to your decision on this issue? If you're quoting me, butting in to our conversation and siding with him; acting as a voice for his position, consider it a statement to both of you. You're all carbon copies of eachother anyway, rehashing what other people say. This whole thread is nothing but mob-think. Why does the quality of your posts continue to diminish? You turn away from the mechanical question and numerous people have tried to inform you yet you dodge any attempt at a discussion and instead take jabs at people and tell them to fuck off if they don't like it. It is people like you that any attempt or effort is wasted. I really hope I'm not the only one tired of you and want you gone. Im with you on this one. Guy is just trolling. It is like a discussion between atheists and religious people, and chebhe is a religious guy.
Take a look at the quality of the post you just made. Don't go attacking people with a faith in something completely unrelated.
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On June 06 2012 07:47 itsjuspeter wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 07:45 chebhe wrote:On June 06 2012 07:41 StarStrider wrote:On June 06 2012 07:39 chebhe wrote:On June 06 2012 07:37 StarStrider wrote:On June 06 2012 07:34 chebhe wrote:On June 06 2012 07:27 StarStrider wrote:On June 06 2012 07:23 chebhe wrote:On June 06 2012 07:23 itsjuspeter wrote:On June 06 2012 07:17 chebhe wrote:
[quote]
Yes. Innocent until proven guilty. Not a hard concept. I'd prefer this to be the last response to someone with a low post count/recent join date. Again, your standards for evidence is alarmingly high. In the real world there will most likely never be 100% proof unless the suspect openly admits he did what he was accused of. It is indeed true we cannot say for 100% that he maphacked but the OVERWHELMING amount of evidence tips n the favor of him doing it. His "playing the victim" responses instead of going "hey look I didn't hack and here is why" really doesn't help his case. We will never hit 100% proof but we can get close to unreasonable doubt that he did which is what many believe is where the evidence is at and thus we believe Spades does hack. Your continued posting and low understanding of mechanics as well as incredibly ridiculous standards for evidence needs to end. Hiding behind the wall of 100% proof isn't good enough anymore. And I don't really care what you prefer. Go rally your mod friends and get me banned if you want me to go away. Else I'm staying put. Your posts are turning to shit now. Because I'm responding to you. You're focusing on pure garbage now and not the issue. The evidence and what story it tells. See my previous post to you. If you want to discuss the evidence, I'd be happy to. But I think it has already been discussed enough, and most agree that it is condemning when you consider it as a whole. Did you watch the set that Illusion posted in the IPL5 quals vs Theognis? You will see the same foul play there. 100 percent proof has nothing to do with it, no one is imposing a 100 percent standard of proof. You made that up to imply absurdity in my position, yet I never subscribed to it. So if you see shit, or garbage, it's just your reflection in the mirror. I don't think we even have any good evidence for it. And alot of people agree with me. You don't like it? I don't care. Go away. You do realize I'm not itsjustpeter right? You just copypasted your response to what he wrote onto your response to me. Your lack of effort is astounding. How much of the evidence did you actually review besides CatZ stream before you came to your decision on this issue? If you're quoting me, butting in to our conversation and siding with him; acting as a voice for his position, consider it a statement to both of you. You're all carbon copies of eachother anyway, rehashing what other people say. This whole thread is nothing but mob-think. Why does the quality of your posts continue to diminish? You turn away from the mechanical question and numerous people have tried to inform you yet you dodge any attempt at a discussion and instead take jabs at people and tell them to fuck off if they don't like it. It is people like you that any attempt or effort is wasted. I really hope I'm not the only one tired of you and want you gone.
The more I respond to you, the less substantial things I have to say.
No one has responded to me with evidence of his MH which I might contrast, just vague allusions to evidence. No actual citations with layed out arguments which can be properly addressed.
So the quality of the response diminishes, along with the whole discussion.
Attempts at discussion, what lame attempts? Show me where?
Show real evidence of him maphacking, and I will tell you whether your evidence sucks.
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On June 06 2012 07:52 TheBanana wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 07:44 jacksonlee wrote:On June 06 2012 07:42 TheBanana wrote:On June 06 2012 07:20 jacksonlee wrote:On June 06 2012 07:16 nath wrote:On June 06 2012 07:08 Trumpet wrote:Really should have done this the BW way. in BW, the maphack disabled you from clicking opponent's units/buildings so that your click wouldnt get registered and show up as an obvious maphack on replay analyzer. So the conclusive proof then became getting large amounts of replays of someone and having them never click an enemy unit in a large amount of games. The same could be used here, if he never looked at fog of war in his games, not even once for a scan or scout or something, then it'd be pretty obvious. Has anyone done this? I'm not about to read through 200+ pages to check well he didnt look in fog of war once in the bo7. that was one of the points that was not in his favor. http://www.twitch.tv/rootcatz/b/320407912go to 1:13:50 that's just one example I'm pretty sure the part explaining from 0:31:30 debunks your example and knocks you back down to zero. Specifically 0:31:44. Like I said, that's one example. In the same game, around 1:16:30 to 1:16:50, he checks fog of war on the right side of minimap without a single command, and when he builds comman center at his third at 1:16:40 he never right clicks Making a command center is a command though. Could you be specific about the second where he checks without a single command? Because I don't see it, it may be because that part is x8.
Between 16:34 and 16:37, a check to the blind side to the right side of minimap, very fast
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On June 06 2012 07:50 Embir wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 07:47 itsjuspeter wrote:On June 06 2012 07:45 chebhe wrote:On June 06 2012 07:41 StarStrider wrote:On June 06 2012 07:39 chebhe wrote:On June 06 2012 07:37 StarStrider wrote:On June 06 2012 07:34 chebhe wrote:On June 06 2012 07:27 StarStrider wrote:On June 06 2012 07:23 chebhe wrote:On June 06 2012 07:23 itsjuspeter wrote:
[quote]
I'd prefer this to be the last response to someone with a low post count/recent join date. Again, your standards for evidence is alarmingly high. In the real world there will most likely never be 100% proof unless the suspect openly admits he did what he was accused of. It is indeed true we cannot say for 100% that he maphacked but the OVERWHELMING amount of evidence tips n the favor of him doing it. His "playing the victim" responses instead of going "hey look I didn't hack and here is why" really doesn't help his case. We will never hit 100% proof but we can get close to unreasonable doubt that he did which is what many believe is where the evidence is at and thus we believe Spades does hack. Your continued posting and low understanding of mechanics as well as incredibly ridiculous standards for evidence needs to end. Hiding behind the wall of 100% proof isn't good enough anymore. And I don't really care what you prefer. Go rally your mod friends and get me banned if you want me to go away. Else I'm staying put. Your posts are turning to shit now. Because I'm responding to you. You're focusing on pure garbage now and not the issue. The evidence and what story it tells. See my previous post to you. If you want to discuss the evidence, I'd be happy to. But I think it has already been discussed enough, and most agree that it is condemning when you consider it as a whole. Did you watch the set that Illusion posted in the IPL5 quals vs Theognis? You will see the same foul play there. 100 percent proof has nothing to do with it, no one is imposing a 100 percent standard of proof. You made that up to imply absurdity in my position, yet I never subscribed to it. So if you see shit, or garbage, it's just your reflection in the mirror. I don't think we even have any good evidence for it. And alot of people agree with me. You don't like it? I don't care. Go away. You do realize I'm not itsjustpeter right? You just copypasted your response to what he wrote onto your response to me. Your lack of effort is astounding. How much of the evidence did you actually review besides CatZ stream before you came to your decision on this issue? If you're quoting me, butting in to our conversation and siding with him; acting as a voice for his position, consider it a statement to both of you. You're all carbon copies of eachother anyway, rehashing what other people say. This whole thread is nothing but mob-think. Why does the quality of your posts continue to diminish? You turn away from the mechanical question and numerous people have tried to inform you yet you dodge any attempt at a discussion and instead take jabs at people and tell them to fuck off if they don't like it. It is people like you that any attempt or effort is wasted. I really hope I'm not the only one tired of you and want you gone. Im with you on this one. Guy is just trolling. It is like a discussion between atheists and religious people, and chebhe is a religious guy.
Yeah, now that I think about it you're probably right. Let's just ignore it until it goes away.
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On June 06 2012 07:53 Embir wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 07:45 chebhe wrote:Watch your fucking mouth. No one is demanding 100 percent certainty. That is what the post you quoted says. Think about what you read.On June 06 2012 07:41 StarStrider wrote:On June 06 2012 07:39 chebhe wrote:On June 06 2012 07:37 StarStrider wrote:On June 06 2012 07:34 chebhe wrote:On June 06 2012 07:27 StarStrider wrote:On June 06 2012 07:23 chebhe wrote:On June 06 2012 07:23 itsjuspeter wrote:On June 06 2012 07:17 chebhe wrote:
[quote]
Yes. Innocent until proven guilty. Not a hard concept. I'd prefer this to be the last response to someone with a low post count/recent join date. Again, your standards for evidence is alarmingly high. In the real world there will most likely never be 100% proof unless the suspect openly admits he did what he was accused of. It is indeed true we cannot say for 100% that he maphacked but the OVERWHELMING amount of evidence tips n the favor of him doing it. His "playing the victim" responses instead of going "hey look I didn't hack and here is why" really doesn't help his case. We will never hit 100% proof but we can get close to unreasonable doubt that he did which is what many believe is where the evidence is at and thus we believe Spades does hack. Your continued posting and low understanding of mechanics as well as incredibly ridiculous standards for evidence needs to end. Hiding behind the wall of 100% proof isn't good enough anymore. And I don't really care what you prefer. Go rally your mod friends and get me banned if you want me to go away. Else I'm staying put. Your posts are turning to shit now. Because I'm responding to you. You're focusing on pure garbage now and not the issue. The evidence and what story it tells. See my previous post to you. If you want to discuss the evidence, I'd be happy to. But I think it has already been discussed enough, and most agree that it is condemning when you consider it as a whole. Did you watch the set that Illusion posted in the IPL5 quals vs Theognis? You will see the same foul play there. 100 percent proof has nothing to do with it, no one is imposing a 100 percent standard of proof. You made that up to imply absurdity in my position, yet I never subscribed to it. So if you see shit, or garbage, it's just your reflection in the mirror. I don't think we even have any good evidence for it. And alot of people agree with me. You don't like it? I don't care. Go away. You do realize I'm not itsjustpeter right? You just copypasted your response to what he wrote onto your response to me. Your lack of effort is astounding. How much of the evidence did you actually review besides CatZ stream before you came to your decision on this issue? If you're quoting me, butting in to our conversation and siding with him; acting as a voice for his position, consider it a statement to both of you. You're all carbon copies of eachother anyway, rehashing what other people say. This whole thread is nothing but mob-think. Ok but Im still waiting for your answer - what would convince you that Spades cheated, if previous evidences didnt?
Probably a statistical test would suffice.
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On June 06 2012 07:31 jacksonlee wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 07:27 gzo wrote:On June 06 2012 07:20 jacksonlee wrote:On June 06 2012 07:16 nath wrote:On June 06 2012 07:08 Trumpet wrote:Really should have done this the BW way. in BW, the maphack disabled you from clicking opponent's units/buildings so that your click wouldnt get registered and show up as an obvious maphack on replay analyzer. So the conclusive proof then became getting large amounts of replays of someone and having them never click an enemy unit in a large amount of games. The same could be used here, if he never looked at fog of war in his games, not even once for a scan or scout or something, then it'd be pretty obvious. Has anyone done this? I'm not about to read through 200+ pages to check well he didnt look in fog of war once in the bo7. that was one of the points that was not in his favor. http://www.twitch.tv/rootcatz/b/320407912go to 1:13:50 that's just one example The consensus is that if you're issuing a command in a complete fog of war location that it will show the player viewing the location, but that might be too much of a cop out, so would you like to provide the other examples where he was viewing a full screen of fog of war? As far as I know there is only one other instance of this happening, except he barely has vision of his base at the top-right corner of his screen, which proves that to be false. Sure, 1:16:40 where he puts his CC at third
Again, it can be said that because he issued a command, his vision wasn't prevented from viewing the fog of war in the replay. This isn't meant to be aggressive towards you or anything, but unless you can find him looking at a full screen of fog of war without issuing a command, I wouldn't use those examples. Like I said before, it's a cop out, but nobody that has any credibility who also uses the hack (which doesn't seem to be probable anyways) can be able to prove/disprove that feature of the hack.
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Is there an alternate source for OP's replays? One that is provided by a more reliable source, such as the actual showmatch producers? Just feels like if you can have a hack while you play to modify your player cam, you can just as easily edit a replay after playing it to make it look like the player is hacking.
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On June 06 2012 07:55 StarStrider wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 07:50 Embir wrote:On June 06 2012 07:47 itsjuspeter wrote:On June 06 2012 07:45 chebhe wrote:On June 06 2012 07:41 StarStrider wrote:On June 06 2012 07:39 chebhe wrote:On June 06 2012 07:37 StarStrider wrote:On June 06 2012 07:34 chebhe wrote:On June 06 2012 07:27 StarStrider wrote:On June 06 2012 07:23 chebhe wrote:
[quote]
And I don't really care what you prefer. Go rally your mod friends and get me banned if you want me to go away. Else I'm staying put. Your posts are turning to shit now. Because I'm responding to you. You're focusing on pure garbage now and not the issue. The evidence and what story it tells. See my previous post to you. If you want to discuss the evidence, I'd be happy to. But I think it has already been discussed enough, and most agree that it is condemning when you consider it as a whole. Did you watch the set that Illusion posted in the IPL5 quals vs Theognis? You will see the same foul play there. 100 percent proof has nothing to do with it, no one is imposing a 100 percent standard of proof. You made that up to imply absurdity in my position, yet I never subscribed to it. So if you see shit, or garbage, it's just your reflection in the mirror. I don't think we even have any good evidence for it. And alot of people agree with me. You don't like it? I don't care. Go away. You do realize I'm not itsjustpeter right? You just copypasted your response to what he wrote onto your response to me. Your lack of effort is astounding. How much of the evidence did you actually review besides CatZ stream before you came to your decision on this issue? If you're quoting me, butting in to our conversation and siding with him; acting as a voice for his position, consider it a statement to both of you. You're all carbon copies of eachother anyway, rehashing what other people say. This whole thread is nothing but mob-think. Why does the quality of your posts continue to diminish? You turn away from the mechanical question and numerous people have tried to inform you yet you dodge any attempt at a discussion and instead take jabs at people and tell them to fuck off if they don't like it. It is people like you that any attempt or effort is wasted. I really hope I'm not the only one tired of you and want you gone. Im with you on this one. Guy is just trolling. It is like a discussion between atheists and religious people, and chebhe is a religious guy. Yeah, now that I think about it you're probably right. Let's just ignore it until it goes away.
More attitude compensates for your lack of good evidence.
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Love when these threads go so far down the tubes that it's just small groups of people trying to have logic and ad hominem arguments with each other LOL.
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On June 06 2012 07:55 gzo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 07:31 jacksonlee wrote:On June 06 2012 07:27 gzo wrote:On June 06 2012 07:20 jacksonlee wrote:On June 06 2012 07:16 nath wrote:On June 06 2012 07:08 Trumpet wrote:Really should have done this the BW way. in BW, the maphack disabled you from clicking opponent's units/buildings so that your click wouldnt get registered and show up as an obvious maphack on replay analyzer. So the conclusive proof then became getting large amounts of replays of someone and having them never click an enemy unit in a large amount of games. The same could be used here, if he never looked at fog of war in his games, not even once for a scan or scout or something, then it'd be pretty obvious. Has anyone done this? I'm not about to read through 200+ pages to check well he didnt look in fog of war once in the bo7. that was one of the points that was not in his favor. http://www.twitch.tv/rootcatz/b/320407912go to 1:13:50 that's just one example The consensus is that if you're issuing a command in a complete fog of war location that it will show the player viewing the location, but that might be too much of a cop out, so would you like to provide the other examples where he was viewing a full screen of fog of war? As far as I know there is only one other instance of this happening, except he barely has vision of his base at the top-right corner of his screen, which proves that to be false. Sure, 1:16:40 where he puts his CC at third Again, it can be said that because he issued a command, his vision wasn't prevented from viewing the fog of war in the replay. This isn't meant to be aggressive towards you or anything, but unless you can find him looking at a full screen of fog of war without issuing a command, I wouldn't use those examples. Like I said before, it's a cop out, but nobody that has any credibility who also uses the hack (which doesn't seem to be probable anyways) can be able to prove/disprove that feature of the hack.
Ok, i'm feeling kind of silly now, but freeze between 16:34 and the first half-second of 16:35
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On June 06 2012 07:54 chebhe wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 07:47 itsjuspeter wrote:On June 06 2012 07:45 chebhe wrote:On June 06 2012 07:41 StarStrider wrote:On June 06 2012 07:39 chebhe wrote:On June 06 2012 07:37 StarStrider wrote:On June 06 2012 07:34 chebhe wrote:On June 06 2012 07:27 StarStrider wrote:On June 06 2012 07:23 chebhe wrote:On June 06 2012 07:23 itsjuspeter wrote:
[quote]
I'd prefer this to be the last response to someone with a low post count/recent join date. Again, your standards for evidence is alarmingly high. In the real world there will most likely never be 100% proof unless the suspect openly admits he did what he was accused of. It is indeed true we cannot say for 100% that he maphacked but the OVERWHELMING amount of evidence tips n the favor of him doing it. His "playing the victim" responses instead of going "hey look I didn't hack and here is why" really doesn't help his case. We will never hit 100% proof but we can get close to unreasonable doubt that he did which is what many believe is where the evidence is at and thus we believe Spades does hack. Your continued posting and low understanding of mechanics as well as incredibly ridiculous standards for evidence needs to end. Hiding behind the wall of 100% proof isn't good enough anymore. And I don't really care what you prefer. Go rally your mod friends and get me banned if you want me to go away. Else I'm staying put. Your posts are turning to shit now. Because I'm responding to you. You're focusing on pure garbage now and not the issue. The evidence and what story it tells. See my previous post to you. If you want to discuss the evidence, I'd be happy to. But I think it has already been discussed enough, and most agree that it is condemning when you consider it as a whole. Did you watch the set that Illusion posted in the IPL5 quals vs Theognis? You will see the same foul play there. 100 percent proof has nothing to do with it, no one is imposing a 100 percent standard of proof. You made that up to imply absurdity in my position, yet I never subscribed to it. So if you see shit, or garbage, it's just your reflection in the mirror. I don't think we even have any good evidence for it. And alot of people agree with me. You don't like it? I don't care. Go away. You do realize I'm not itsjustpeter right? You just copypasted your response to what he wrote onto your response to me. Your lack of effort is astounding. How much of the evidence did you actually review besides CatZ stream before you came to your decision on this issue? If you're quoting me, butting in to our conversation and siding with him; acting as a voice for his position, consider it a statement to both of you. You're all carbon copies of eachother anyway, rehashing what other people say. This whole thread is nothing but mob-think. Why does the quality of your posts continue to diminish? You turn away from the mechanical question and numerous people have tried to inform you yet you dodge any attempt at a discussion and instead take jabs at people and tell them to fuck off if they don't like it. It is people like you that any attempt or effort is wasted. I really hope I'm not the only one tired of you and want you gone. The more I respond to you, the less substantial things I have to say. No one has responded to me with evidence of his MH which I might contrast, just vague allusions to evidence. No actual citations with layed out arguments which can be properly addressed. So the quality of the response diminishes, along with the whole discussion. Attempts at discussion, what lame attempts? Show me where? Show real evidence of him maphacking, and I will tell you whether your evidence sucks.
We can agree to disagree that is fine. You have your opinion, I have mine. I stated mine but you attacked me and other members with nothing but condescending remarks, foul language, and you act as if everything revolves around you, as if we NEED you to provide us with the a-okay that this is good enough evidence. I'm done getting trolled lol. Also, numerous responses have tried to tell you that mechanically speaking it is already ridiculous someone would change how he plays with such precision like that.
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