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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here.08:47 KST - Summary:Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) |
On June 05 2012 22:05 terran0330 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 21:52 netherh wrote:It doesn't really clear up who the OP is, but... I'm pretty sure he got the replays from Lucifron, though I would like someone more knowledgeable about the SC2Replay format to verify this. As far as I can tell, each person listed in the replay has a boolean "recorder" value, which indicates from whom the replay originates. SC2Gears doesn't actually provide this value (though it lists the recorder's time-zone), but it's readily extractable from the replay file. Here's a python script using sc2reader to show who was in the game, and whether they were the recorder of the replay:
import sys, pprint
from sc2reader import load_replay
def main():
replay = load_replay(sys.argv[1])
for p in replay.person:
print(replay.person[p].name + " " + str(replay.person[p].recorder))
main()
This prints the following for the Antiga shipyard game:
Spades False
LucifroN True
ãñÃñÃéMKR False
ãñÃñÃéSavage False
GrocK False
Ounedson False
Martijn False
Showing that the replay was recorded by Lucifron. (Some of the names are slightly mangled, because they contain odd characters: ƤǤǂ) (Originally posted here, but it probably belongs in this thread too: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=342492¤tpage=2#22 ) Aww man, that sure is interesting... If Luci was the one who owns the reply... could that be his smurf TL account? Damn, or did he just pass it on. mhm, thank you for the contribution.
Lucifron seems like a really manner guy, I doubt he'd make a smurf account just to accuse Spades of hacking in a series he won
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On June 05 2012 22:02 Pantythief wrote:
Furthermore, my friend and I took the privilege to actually load up the hack ourselves on a starter edition of the game. The hack actually has its own auto-hack detection built in, so we could tell all the time if Spades' vision should be blocked by the hack itself -- guess what, it was completely synced with the actual player camera throughout all replays. Basically what it does is, it shows the player cameras detected by both players by StarCraft 2, and the player cameras detected by both players by the hack.
Conclusion: there's no way you'll ever know if the guy is hacking.
I don't understand this part.
What you are saying is that the hack is so advanced that camera movement should never be taken into account? Because the hack tricks you in multiple ways?
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Canada16217 Posts
People saying the replays showed nothing obviously haven't seen them or don't understand the game at a high enough level to understand why it's so evident he's hacking.
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On June 05 2012 22:01 JOJOsc2news wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 21:54 Felnarion wrote:On June 05 2012 21:50 Pantythief wrote:On June 05 2012 21:30 Jinsho wrote:On June 05 2012 21:27 Pantythief wrote:On June 05 2012 21:25 Jinsho wrote:
No. The OPs identity DOES NOT MATTER at all. Why would it? It would give him more credibility? Are you all nuts? Look at the damn evidence and decide for yourself! It doesn't matter who brings it up!
You can already see that even the pro-players who actually looked at this have divided opinions. Why would it matter if the guy is Lucifron himself, a guy affiliated with Lucifron, a completely random guy, maybe Spades' girlfriend who is angry that he's cheating on her? How the fuck does that change the credibility of the ACTUAL ALLEGATIONS? There is no evidence, only claims that says "that's weird, I wouldn't do that, he must be hacking" -- that's your best guess, right there. The replays are the evidence. Understanding what it means is the thing that is actually difficult so people don't want to do it. They are lazy and stupid and want catz or Illusion or whoever else to do it for them so they know who to point their pitchforks at, Spades or the OP (who DARES to be anonymous, ugh, how dare he avoid our wrath???? he must be suspicious????) There's 0 evidence in those replays. I get accused all the time for hacking myself, because I do fishy shit. Trust me, I do and have seen things that are more "suspicious" than what Spades does. Also, if the original poster was 100% sure in his claims, he wouldn't go anonymous. More suspicious than A-moving your army, off screen, in a TvT, toward an army that may or may not even be there while your camera watches your rally point that currently contains a couple marines and a marauder? Are you aware of how terrible that is? How a movement like that can instantly lose the game? Who does that in a TvT? But that's besides the point: what do you say to how completely different his camera movement is between ladder and tournament games? What do you say to how his screen locks on weird places for literally 10-15 seconds sometimes, almost always when Lucifron is moving an army or making something important (Cloaked banshee) Where do these random numbers come from? Please tell me when exactly in which replay the camera locks in a weird place for 10-15 seconds. (Except for the beginning of the game) I don't know if Spades is hacking or not but the amount of random made up "evidence" that's thrown around here is disgusting. If you make a claim like that, back it up with the replay and the exact time please.
The replays are around for everyone to see, and the camera locks are enumerated throughout the thread. Unfortunately, I'm not at a computer with SC2, so the exact time of that instance, I can't give (if someone else can, the one on Antiga where he A moves his army on the minimap toward the top right while his camera locks on his rally point, that'd be great.)
9:11 and 11:02 are two instances of his camera doing literally nothing in the OP, though I don't know that those are the specific time I'm thinking of.
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On June 05 2012 22:08 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 22:02 Pantythief wrote:
Furthermore, my friend and I took the privilege to actually load up the hack ourselves on a starter edition of the game. The hack actually has its own auto-hack detection built in, so we could tell all the time if Spades' vision should be blocked by the hack itself -- guess what, it was completely synced with the actual player camera throughout all replays. Basically what it does is, it shows the player cameras detected by both players by StarCraft 2, and the player cameras detected by both players by the hack.
Conclusion: there's no way you'll ever know if the guy is hacking.
I don't understand this part. What you are saying is that the hack is so advanced that camera movement should never be taken into account? Because the hack tricks you in multiple ways?
The hack filters itself. The camera movement cannot be taken into consideration, because we're not talking about old-school maphacks where you can just see fog of war. You don't have to do that anymore, the hack is one big U.I. that tells you the fuck is going on, so you don't have to look at fog of war -- it's a safety mechanism. Basically, if he did use the camera lock to look at fog of war, the hack would prevent the replay from showing it, because the hack realizes that it would seem obvious.
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On June 05 2012 20:36 SolidMustard wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 20:30 Kotreb wrote:On June 05 2012 20:00 NovemberstOrm wrote:On June 05 2012 19:48 Kotreb wrote:On June 05 2012 18:55 Kreb wrote:On June 05 2012 18:44 Thylacine wrote:On June 05 2012 10:50 ackbar wrote:On June 05 2012 10:38 mememolly wrote:On June 05 2012 10:34 Rowrin wrote:
Cant believe there are people questioning Spades credibility and not realizing the contradiction in taking the words of a guy with 1 post as law.
you have 47 posts, aside from the huge amount of irony this raises, do you think people should ignore you based of your low post count? The 1 post count the OP has probably means that he is a regular here who created a new account just to post this. I think that damages his credibility moreso than the actual quantity of posts.
He is accusing someone of cheating, he should put his name behind it. He is attacking someone else's reputation, yet he hides his identity so HIS reputation cant be taken into account (or damaged if he's wrong)? This shows a lack of character. Exactly my thoughts. The OP is a coward. Why is that a problem? It happens with anonymous tips to newspapers about stories or to the police about crimes all the time? If the option to remain anonymous wouldnt exist, a lot of stuff would never reach the surface. It might be cowardly, but hardly something to get upset over, nor something to take into account when discussing the topic. Problem is, at least from my point of view, that the OP just made one post and that's it. He hasn't bothered to reply once more in this thread, considering the shitstorm he created, which would be nice. And doesn't the defendant has the right to face his accuser? I would like to hear more from OP and why he created this thread. Was it just to spite Spades or his moral demanded that he does that? If it was moral than it's funny that he used other/new account to do that. Did you not see all the testaments from the players? did you not see catz, illusion etc do the replay analysis? the evidence is quite obvious, it doesn't matter if the OP doesn't reply to his own thread since already other people have already looked at the situation and replays and have made a general consensus that he did cheat. Any and ALL hacking needs to be taken very seriously, it does not matter if he's being cowardly. I saw it. And i haven't commented about his innocence/being guilty. And since were mentioning the players analysis, did you not see Nerchio's one? See how it's easy to find the other/opposite side? And it matters to me. If you have the "balls" to call someone out, than you should also have the balls to defend your point and sty in the "argument" 'till the end. Not just make one post and be gone with the wind. I do agree that hacking needs to be taken seriously, but i do also believe that a man should stand behind his actions. If we go by that logic, what prevents me from creating new account, pick one game from, lets say, d.Apollo and accuse him for hacking (Apollo is used just as an example since i watched his stream yesterday and he's the first person i thought of, I'm not claiming that he hacks), and than just leave thread and wallow in all the drama i created. Besides, this is also credibility problem. Someone can get accused because he had bad/dubious past, but we should totally take word from some anonymous. Yes, I saw that the other pros were included now, but as far as I can see they haven't been able to conclude that he is positively, without a doubt hacking. So in this case i would very much like to hear once more from OP, especially since even some pros managed to prove that some of his conclusions were wrong. Nerchio has been rumoured to be a hacker too so his "analysis" is to be looked at carefully, though
ROFL. Honestly, I stayed away from this thread as long as possible as I have not enough knowledge about this whole thing to judge, but this is hilarious.
Yes, there was a rumor about Nerchio cheating, because there was a time where his online results didn´t translate into LAN success, but this whole thing was basically over, when Nerchio also delivered good games offline like for example the Battle in Berlin. There is no doubt about Nerchios skill being legit and I don´t even like the guy personally.
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On June 05 2012 22:05 terran0330 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 21:52 netherh wrote:It doesn't really clear up who the OP is, but... I'm pretty sure he got the replays from Lucifron, though I would like someone more knowledgeable about the SC2Replay format to verify this. As far as I can tell, each person listed in the replay has a boolean "recorder" value, which indicates from whom the replay originates. SC2Gears doesn't actually provide this value (though it lists the recorder's time-zone), but it's readily extractable from the replay file. Here's a python script using sc2reader to show who was in the game, and whether they were the recorder of the replay:
import sys, pprint
from sc2reader import load_replay
def main():
replay = load_replay(sys.argv[1])
for p in replay.person:
print(replay.person[p].name + " " + str(replay.person[p].recorder))
main()
This prints the following for the Antiga shipyard game:
Spades False
LucifroN True
ãñÃñÃéMKR False
ãñÃñÃéSavage False
GrocK False
Ounedson False
Martijn False
Showing that the replay was recorded by Lucifron. (Some of the names are slightly mangled, because they contain odd characters: ƤǤǂ) (Originally posted here, but it probably belongs in this thread too: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=342492¤tpage=2#22 ) Aww man, that sure is interesting... If Luci was the one who owns the reply... could that be his smurf TL account? Damn, or did he just pass it on. mhm, thank you for the contribution.
Well I'm sorry if I miss something here, but what does it change if these reps are Lucifrons? The OP states that he got the reps from Luci so that's that. Also TL mods can check IPs of posters, so they would have realised that this was Luci (although anyone can use a different IP for a smurf).
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Looking at Catz and the others analyze the replays it's very obvious that this piece of shit is hacking. Banish him from the community (he should've never been let back in after hacking in BW).
User was warned for this post
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After GSTL tonight I find it hard to get worked up about this drama anymore. Anyone else who is sad when reading threads like this and feels like the sky is falling, just watch the GSTL vods if you can. SC2 is evolving into such a beautiful game and it really puts the drama in perspective.
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[B]On June 05 2012 21:45 Felnarion wrote:But you didn't analyze MKP games for similar game sense.
And it's not just about the game sense, showing you haven't been reading the thread. It's about the camera movements. The sick game sense is just a pointer for when to look at his camera movements. And everytime he has his "nerd sense" activate? His camera locks in a random, weird spot for no reason, for many seconds. This doesn't happen on the ladder games. Explain. Does he go into ultra macro mode in tournaments where he uses his camera...less?
EDIT: Guys, it's been said over and over, on the topic of locking the camera. There's two types: One locks the camera over the fog of war, and one is an activatable hotkey that can be turned on and off at any time. Personally, I think he's using both, but it may be that he's just using the hotkey by habit when he needs to move over the fog. Or, alternatively, maybe there are times when something is on the edge of the fog and he needs vision that he simply turns it off completely. The lock I mean.
Felnarion, you're missing my point. I have no opinion if Spades is hacking. I've been reading the thread and it's he said this and he said that and this evidence points to that and this points to this other conclusion.
I don't CARE about an individual hacking. I care about what it means to the esports scene in general, what it means to professional players in online tourneys, what it means to the lively hood of the players, the coaches and the commentators.
If one semi-pro/pro can be called out for hacking by a person on the TL boards who has ONE post in the forums and it blows out to a 150 page thread with total disregard for that players career then that effects progaming as a whole.
If someone else can come in and throw slander at a whole community saying they stream cheat and it's just how it is...Please. Look at the bigger picture.
What happens if Spades gets proved guilty?
Online qualifies stop?
Online showmatches stop?
Foreigners need a rep in Korea to watch while an international online game is taking place?
What happens if he is proved innocent?
Doubt STILL lingers amongst the community because of ONE POST by a SMURF.
Streams get cancelled?
Streams get delayed by an hour? Do people leak results or not?
Online tourneys are stopped. Now there is noway to have showmatches, no way to have spur of the moment streamed games.
Any online showmatch or game or tourney has it's credibility lowered.
I already said I have no opinion on Spades hacking. As an individual his reputation is shot. Look at the posts in this thread. This isn't Idra not saying GG. This isn't Naniwa probe rushing in a game of no consequence. This is people talking about professionals HACKING AND CHEATING in esports.
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watched the reps and it is obvious he hacks, moving his army into perfect position without having vision and the scanning after he moves his army or sieges and then the screen locks and never clicking into fog of war, just a joke, #1 GM ahead of demuslim etc but never performs at LAN? rofl
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On June 05 2012 22:11 Sphaero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 20:36 SolidMustard wrote:On June 05 2012 20:30 Kotreb wrote:On June 05 2012 20:00 NovemberstOrm wrote:On June 05 2012 19:48 Kotreb wrote:On June 05 2012 18:55 Kreb wrote:On June 05 2012 18:44 Thylacine wrote:On June 05 2012 10:50 ackbar wrote:On June 05 2012 10:38 mememolly wrote:On June 05 2012 10:34 Rowrin wrote:
Cant believe there are people questioning Spades credibility and not realizing the contradiction in taking the words of a guy with 1 post as law.
you have 47 posts, aside from the huge amount of irony this raises, do you think people should ignore you based of your low post count? The 1 post count the OP has probably means that he is a regular here who created a new account just to post this. I think that damages his credibility moreso than the actual quantity of posts.
He is accusing someone of cheating, he should put his name behind it. He is attacking someone else's reputation, yet he hides his identity so HIS reputation cant be taken into account (or damaged if he's wrong)? This shows a lack of character. Exactly my thoughts. The OP is a coward. Why is that a problem? It happens with anonymous tips to newspapers about stories or to the police about crimes all the time? If the option to remain anonymous wouldnt exist, a lot of stuff would never reach the surface. It might be cowardly, but hardly something to get upset over, nor something to take into account when discussing the topic. Problem is, at least from my point of view, that the OP just made one post and that's it. He hasn't bothered to reply once more in this thread, considering the shitstorm he created, which would be nice. And doesn't the defendant has the right to face his accuser? I would like to hear more from OP and why he created this thread. Was it just to spite Spades or his moral demanded that he does that? If it was moral than it's funny that he used other/new account to do that. Did you not see all the testaments from the players? did you not see catz, illusion etc do the replay analysis? the evidence is quite obvious, it doesn't matter if the OP doesn't reply to his own thread since already other people have already looked at the situation and replays and have made a general consensus that he did cheat. Any and ALL hacking needs to be taken very seriously, it does not matter if he's being cowardly. I saw it. And i haven't commented about his innocence/being guilty. And since were mentioning the players analysis, did you not see Nerchio's one? See how it's easy to find the other/opposite side? And it matters to me. If you have the "balls" to call someone out, than you should also have the balls to defend your point and sty in the "argument" 'till the end. Not just make one post and be gone with the wind. I do agree that hacking needs to be taken seriously, but i do also believe that a man should stand behind his actions. If we go by that logic, what prevents me from creating new account, pick one game from, lets say, d.Apollo and accuse him for hacking (Apollo is used just as an example since i watched his stream yesterday and he's the first person i thought of, I'm not claiming that he hacks), and than just leave thread and wallow in all the drama i created. Besides, this is also credibility problem. Someone can get accused because he had bad/dubious past, but we should totally take word from some anonymous. Yes, I saw that the other pros were included now, but as far as I can see they haven't been able to conclude that he is positively, without a doubt hacking. So in this case i would very much like to hear once more from OP, especially since even some pros managed to prove that some of his conclusions were wrong. Nerchio has been rumoured to be a hacker too so his "analysis" is to be looked at carefully, though ROFL. Honestly, I stayed away from this thread as long as possible as I have not enough knowledge about this whole thing to judge, but this is hilarious. Yes, there was a rumor about Nerchio cheating, because there was a time where his online results didn´t translate into LAN success, but this whole thing was basically over, when Nerchio also delivered good games offline like for example the Battle in Berlin. There is no doubt about Nerchios skill being legit and I don´t even like the guy personally.
His LAN results still are nothing compared to his ridiculous amount of online wins but every one believes what they want.
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On the bright side, at least people may actually care about his MLG results now. If more evidence doesn't come in/the community decides current evidence isn't enough, he will have way more exposure and there will be many people who feel bad for him and become fans.
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ROFL. Honestly, I stayed away from this thread as long as possible as I have not enough knowledge about this whole thing to judge, but this is hilarious.
Yes, there was a rumor about Nerchio cheating, because there was a time where his online results didn´t translate into LAN success, but this whole thing was basically over, when Nerchio also delivered good games offline like for example the Battle in Berlin. There is no doubt about Nerchios skill being legit and I don´t even like the guy personally.
Yeah, only unskilled players are caught using hacks. From CS to Quake, to Stacraft, programers were caught using hacks in official games for a decade of esports. Nice argument.
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On June 05 2012 22:13 Dubag wrote:Show nested quote +[B]On June 05 2012 21:45 Felnarion wrote:But you didn't analyze MKP games for similar game sense.
And it's not just about the game sense, showing you haven't been reading the thread. It's about the camera movements. The sick game sense is just a pointer for when to look at his camera movements. And everytime he has his "nerd sense" activate? His camera locks in a random, weird spot for no reason, for many seconds. This doesn't happen on the ladder games. Explain. Does he go into ultra macro mode in tournaments where he uses his camera...less?
EDIT: Guys, it's been said over and over, on the topic of locking the camera. There's two types: One locks the camera over the fog of war, and one is an activatable hotkey that can be turned on and off at any time. Personally, I think he's using both, but it may be that he's just using the hotkey by habit when he needs to move over the fog. Or, alternatively, maybe there are times when something is on the edge of the fog and he needs vision that he simply turns it off completely. The lock I mean. Felnarion, you're missing my point. I have no opinion if Spades is hacking. I've been reading the thread and it's he said this and he said that and this evidence points to that and this points to this other conclusion. I don't CARE about an individual hacking. I care about what it means to the esports scene in general, what it means to professional players in online tourneys, what it means to the lively hood of the players, the coaches and the commentators. If one semi-pro/pro can be called out for hacking by a person on the TL boards who has ONE post in the forums and it blows out to a 150 page thread with total disregard for that players career then that effects progaming as a whole. If someone else can come in and throw slander at a whole community saying they stream cheat and it's just how it is...Please. Look at the bigger picture. What happens if Spades gets proved guilty? Online qualifies stop? Online showmatches stop? Foreigners need a rep in Korea to watch while an international online game is taking place? What happens if he is proved innocent? Doubt STILL lingers amongst the community because of ONE POST by a SMURF. Streams get cancelled? Streams get delayed by an hour? Do people leak results or not? Online tourneys are stopped. Now there is noway to have showmatches, no way to have spur of the moment streamed games. Any online showmatch or game or tourney has it's credibility lowered. I already said I have no opinion on Spades hacking. As an individual his reputation is shot. Look at the posts in this thread. This isn't Idra not saying GG. This isn't Naniwa probe rushing in a game of no consequence. This is people talking about professionals HACKING AND CHEATING in esports.
You're being absolutely ridiculous. There is no doomsday scenario because someone cheated at a game online. It has been happening since the very beginning of competitive gaming and will always happen. Where do you people come up with this stuff?
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On June 05 2012 22:11 Sphaero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 20:36 SolidMustard wrote:On June 05 2012 20:30 Kotreb wrote:On June 05 2012 20:00 NovemberstOrm wrote:On June 05 2012 19:48 Kotreb wrote:On June 05 2012 18:55 Kreb wrote:On June 05 2012 18:44 Thylacine wrote:On June 05 2012 10:50 ackbar wrote:On June 05 2012 10:38 mememolly wrote:On June 05 2012 10:34 Rowrin wrote:
Cant believe there are people questioning Spades credibility and not realizing the contradiction in taking the words of a guy with 1 post as law.
you have 47 posts, aside from the huge amount of irony this raises, do you think people should ignore you based of your low post count? The 1 post count the OP has probably means that he is a regular here who created a new account just to post this. I think that damages his credibility moreso than the actual quantity of posts.
He is accusing someone of cheating, he should put his name behind it. He is attacking someone else's reputation, yet he hides his identity so HIS reputation cant be taken into account (or damaged if he's wrong)? This shows a lack of character. Exactly my thoughts. The OP is a coward. Why is that a problem? It happens with anonymous tips to newspapers about stories or to the police about crimes all the time? If the option to remain anonymous wouldnt exist, a lot of stuff would never reach the surface. It might be cowardly, but hardly something to get upset over, nor something to take into account when discussing the topic. Problem is, at least from my point of view, that the OP just made one post and that's it. He hasn't bothered to reply once more in this thread, considering the shitstorm he created, which would be nice. And doesn't the defendant has the right to face his accuser? I would like to hear more from OP and why he created this thread. Was it just to spite Spades or his moral demanded that he does that? If it was moral than it's funny that he used other/new account to do that. Did you not see all the testaments from the players? did you not see catz, illusion etc do the replay analysis? the evidence is quite obvious, it doesn't matter if the OP doesn't reply to his own thread since already other people have already looked at the situation and replays and have made a general consensus that he did cheat. Any and ALL hacking needs to be taken very seriously, it does not matter if he's being cowardly. I saw it. And i haven't commented about his innocence/being guilty. And since were mentioning the players analysis, did you not see Nerchio's one? See how it's easy to find the other/opposite side? And it matters to me. If you have the "balls" to call someone out, than you should also have the balls to defend your point and sty in the "argument" 'till the end. Not just make one post and be gone with the wind. I do agree that hacking needs to be taken seriously, but i do also believe that a man should stand behind his actions. If we go by that logic, what prevents me from creating new account, pick one game from, lets say, d.Apollo and accuse him for hacking (Apollo is used just as an example since i watched his stream yesterday and he's the first person i thought of, I'm not claiming that he hacks), and than just leave thread and wallow in all the drama i created. Besides, this is also credibility problem. Someone can get accused because he had bad/dubious past, but we should totally take word from some anonymous. Yes, I saw that the other pros were included now, but as far as I can see they haven't been able to conclude that he is positively, without a doubt hacking. So in this case i would very much like to hear once more from OP, especially since even some pros managed to prove that some of his conclusions were wrong. Nerchio has been rumoured to be a hacker too so his "analysis" is to be looked at carefully, though ROFL. Honestly, I stayed away from this thread as long as possible as I have not enough knowledge about this whole thing to judge, but this is hilarious. Yes, there was a rumor about Nerchio cheating, because there was a time where his online results didn´t translate into LAN success, but this whole thing was basically over, when Nerchio also delivered good games offline like for example the Battle in Berlin. There is no doubt about Nerchios skill being legit and I don´t even like the guy personally.
Accusing someone of cheating because he's not producing the same results offline as he does online, is really shortsighted. Especially when you take in account that these guys are not just playing for fun, but they represent sponsors and have to make a living doing this.Calling your brother a cheater ain't the same as calling a professional a cheater.
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On June 05 2012 22:19 1ManArmy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 22:11 Sphaero wrote:On June 05 2012 20:36 SolidMustard wrote:On June 05 2012 20:30 Kotreb wrote:On June 05 2012 20:00 NovemberstOrm wrote:On June 05 2012 19:48 Kotreb wrote:On June 05 2012 18:55 Kreb wrote:On June 05 2012 18:44 Thylacine wrote:On June 05 2012 10:50 ackbar wrote:On June 05 2012 10:38 mememolly wrote:
[quote]
you have 47 posts, aside from the huge amount of irony this raises, do you think people should ignore you based of your low post count? The 1 post count the OP has probably means that he is a regular here who created a new account just to post this. I think that damages his credibility moreso than the actual quantity of posts.
He is accusing someone of cheating, he should put his name behind it. He is attacking someone else's reputation, yet he hides his identity so HIS reputation cant be taken into account (or damaged if he's wrong)? This shows a lack of character. Exactly my thoughts. The OP is a coward. Why is that a problem? It happens with anonymous tips to newspapers about stories or to the police about crimes all the time? If the option to remain anonymous wouldnt exist, a lot of stuff would never reach the surface. It might be cowardly, but hardly something to get upset over, nor something to take into account when discussing the topic. Problem is, at least from my point of view, that the OP just made one post and that's it. He hasn't bothered to reply once more in this thread, considering the shitstorm he created, which would be nice. And doesn't the defendant has the right to face his accuser? I would like to hear more from OP and why he created this thread. Was it just to spite Spades or his moral demanded that he does that? If it was moral than it's funny that he used other/new account to do that. Did you not see all the testaments from the players? did you not see catz, illusion etc do the replay analysis? the evidence is quite obvious, it doesn't matter if the OP doesn't reply to his own thread since already other people have already looked at the situation and replays and have made a general consensus that he did cheat. Any and ALL hacking needs to be taken very seriously, it does not matter if he's being cowardly. I saw it. And i haven't commented about his innocence/being guilty. And since were mentioning the players analysis, did you not see Nerchio's one? See how it's easy to find the other/opposite side? And it matters to me. If you have the "balls" to call someone out, than you should also have the balls to defend your point and sty in the "argument" 'till the end. Not just make one post and be gone with the wind. I do agree that hacking needs to be taken seriously, but i do also believe that a man should stand behind his actions. If we go by that logic, what prevents me from creating new account, pick one game from, lets say, d.Apollo and accuse him for hacking (Apollo is used just as an example since i watched his stream yesterday and he's the first person i thought of, I'm not claiming that he hacks), and than just leave thread and wallow in all the drama i created. Besides, this is also credibility problem. Someone can get accused because he had bad/dubious past, but we should totally take word from some anonymous. Yes, I saw that the other pros were included now, but as far as I can see they haven't been able to conclude that he is positively, without a doubt hacking. So in this case i would very much like to hear once more from OP, especially since even some pros managed to prove that some of his conclusions were wrong. Nerchio has been rumoured to be a hacker too so his "analysis" is to be looked at carefully, though ROFL. Honestly, I stayed away from this thread as long as possible as I have not enough knowledge about this whole thing to judge, but this is hilarious. Yes, there was a rumor about Nerchio cheating, because there was a time where his online results didn´t translate into LAN success, but this whole thing was basically over, when Nerchio also delivered good games offline like for example the Battle in Berlin. There is no doubt about Nerchios skill being legit and I don´t even like the guy personally. Accusing someone of cheating because he's not producing the same results offline as he does online, is really shortsighted. Especially when you take in account that these guys are not just playing for fun, but they represent sponsors and have to make a living doing this.Calling your brother a cheater ain't the same as calling a professional a cheater.
dude, pros cheat in all forms of sport, even pro football players who earn millions have been found to throw games, you are seriously delusion if you think that a pro like spades wouldn't cheat in an online event
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Where there is smoke there is fire.
I cant say I understand the evidence because I dont play SC2 and only watching SC2 here and there but in this thread the general consensus is that Spades is indeed hacking in that showmatch.
From what i remember Spades has been caught hacking more than once in BW and every time he denied it just like now. You dont need to go through all of his ladder replays to confirm if he is hacking or not. In a showmatch where he plays 7 games and he does suspicious stuff in ALL of his games than that is more than enough proof that he is hacking.
I've been following the BW scene for a long time and even myself I've caught some famous hackers back in the days and with a level of drama of this magnitude there is always been confirmed that the acused have been indeed hacking. The only exeption I can think of is the case with Mistrzzz where ppl ganged up on him because he was actually good and had a personality of a love child from Idra and a clown. Even the guy that acused him was caught using maphack just a few months after that incident. Everyone was sure that he hacked but he proved himself with good results and using fp vods of him everytime when he played.
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On June 05 2012 22:19 1ManArmy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 22:11 Sphaero wrote:On June 05 2012 20:36 SolidMustard wrote:On June 05 2012 20:30 Kotreb wrote:On June 05 2012 20:00 NovemberstOrm wrote:On June 05 2012 19:48 Kotreb wrote:On June 05 2012 18:55 Kreb wrote:On June 05 2012 18:44 Thylacine wrote:On June 05 2012 10:50 ackbar wrote:On June 05 2012 10:38 mememolly wrote:
[quote]
you have 47 posts, aside from the huge amount of irony this raises, do you think people should ignore you based of your low post count? The 1 post count the OP has probably means that he is a regular here who created a new account just to post this. I think that damages his credibility moreso than the actual quantity of posts.
He is accusing someone of cheating, he should put his name behind it. He is attacking someone else's reputation, yet he hides his identity so HIS reputation cant be taken into account (or damaged if he's wrong)? This shows a lack of character. Exactly my thoughts. The OP is a coward. Why is that a problem? It happens with anonymous tips to newspapers about stories or to the police about crimes all the time? If the option to remain anonymous wouldnt exist, a lot of stuff would never reach the surface. It might be cowardly, but hardly something to get upset over, nor something to take into account when discussing the topic. Problem is, at least from my point of view, that the OP just made one post and that's it. He hasn't bothered to reply once more in this thread, considering the shitstorm he created, which would be nice. And doesn't the defendant has the right to face his accuser? I would like to hear more from OP and why he created this thread. Was it just to spite Spades or his moral demanded that he does that? If it was moral than it's funny that he used other/new account to do that. Did you not see all the testaments from the players? did you not see catz, illusion etc do the replay analysis? the evidence is quite obvious, it doesn't matter if the OP doesn't reply to his own thread since already other people have already looked at the situation and replays and have made a general consensus that he did cheat. Any and ALL hacking needs to be taken very seriously, it does not matter if he's being cowardly. I saw it. And i haven't commented about his innocence/being guilty. And since were mentioning the players analysis, did you not see Nerchio's one? See how it's easy to find the other/opposite side? And it matters to me. If you have the "balls" to call someone out, than you should also have the balls to defend your point and sty in the "argument" 'till the end. Not just make one post and be gone with the wind. I do agree that hacking needs to be taken seriously, but i do also believe that a man should stand behind his actions. If we go by that logic, what prevents me from creating new account, pick one game from, lets say, d.Apollo and accuse him for hacking (Apollo is used just as an example since i watched his stream yesterday and he's the first person i thought of, I'm not claiming that he hacks), and than just leave thread and wallow in all the drama i created. Besides, this is also credibility problem. Someone can get accused because he had bad/dubious past, but we should totally take word from some anonymous. Yes, I saw that the other pros were included now, but as far as I can see they haven't been able to conclude that he is positively, without a doubt hacking. So in this case i would very much like to hear once more from OP, especially since even some pros managed to prove that some of his conclusions were wrong. Nerchio has been rumoured to be a hacker too so his "analysis" is to be looked at carefully, though ROFL. Honestly, I stayed away from this thread as long as possible as I have not enough knowledge about this whole thing to judge, but this is hilarious. Yes, there was a rumor about Nerchio cheating, because there was a time where his online results didn´t translate into LAN success, but this whole thing was basically over, when Nerchio also delivered good games offline like for example the Battle in Berlin. There is no doubt about Nerchios skill being legit and I don´t even like the guy personally. Accusing someone of cheating because he's not producing the same results offline as he does online, is really shortsighted. Especially when you take in account that these guys are not just playing for fun, but they represent sponsors and have to make a living doing this.Calling your brother a cheater ain't the same as calling a professional a cheater.
Yes. I can't remember exactly who, but i think there is player on Slayers or MVP who is said to be quite an animal considering training and in-house results (winning a lot of in-house tournaments and some "smaller" ones like playhem etc) but whenever he goes up to the booth he mentally chokes and is unable to present his skill in best way possible. So using offline events as a measurement is he cheating or not is silly.
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EPT
