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You have to provide some kind of evidence/proof (screenshots/replays etc.) if you are going to accuse somebody.
Additionally, a supporting comment of what people should be looking for and when will be necessary if you are posting replays/evidence. |
Can somone actually do a proper test of whether you can place a building in an area where there was previously creep but the creep has completely receded. In the video, they did not actually simulate what happened in Valjean's game. In the video, they were trying to place the nexus while the creep was actually still there (even though of course they couldn't see it). In order to prove that what Valjean did isn't possible, you would need to attempt to place the Nexus after the creep has completely receded, even though you of course can't see that it's receded. In his game, Valjean waited long enough that the creep definitely would have receded by the time he attempted to place the nexus.
It seems odd to me that a maphack would allow you to place buildings in places you normally can't. In order to avoid detection by Warden the maphacks don't interact with SC2 directly, they are somehow reading your computers memory. In order to allow you to place buildings where others can't it seems the maphack would have to be manipulating SC2 directly, otherwise we would also have mineral hacks and stuff like that.
While I definitely support the process of outing hackers we should be careful to use only credible evidence that is properly verified. This is similar to the magic scan "evidence" that Catz and company harped on about over and over on a stream in front of 6k people, without actually testing for themselves whether you can get a scan to appear off the center of your screen by clicking in the top corner of your screen. As it turned out, anyone can do a "magic scan".
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On June 11 2012 13:00 IOvEggY wrote:
I had a a feeling NMx were hackers...
i'm pretty sure it's just this guy.. and i don't think he's associated with their A-team, just using their tag.
I'm sure players like NMxMasa and NMxHendralisk are legit. Played them at lans before and they're good. Remember not to accuse someone so quickly, must investigate first. Esspecially a whole team. You cannot rush with these claims.
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On June 11 2012 13:19 Doodsmack wrote:
Can somone actually do a proper test of whether you can place a building in an area where there was previously creep but the creep has completely receded. In the video, they did not actually simulate what happened in Valjean's game. In the video, they were trying to place the nexus while the creep was actually still there (even though of course they couldn't see it). In order to prove that what Valjean did isn't possible, you would need to attempt to place the Nexus after the creep has completely receded, even though you of course can't see that it's receded. In his game, Valjean waited long enough that the creep definitely would have receded by the time he attempted to place the nexus.
It seems odd to me that a maphack would allow you to place buildings in places you normally can't. In order to avoid detection by Warden the maphacks don't interact with SC2 directly, they are somehow reading your computers memory. In order to allow you to place buildings where others can't it seems the maphack would have to be manipulating SC2 directly, otherwise we would also have mineral hacks and stuff like that.
While I definitely support the process of outing hackers we should be careful to use only credible evidence that is properly verified. This is similar to the magic scan "evidence" that Catz and company harped on about over and over on a stream in front of 6k people, without actually testing for themselves whether you can get a scan to appear off the center of your screen by clicking in the top corner of your screen. As it turned out, anyone can do a "magic scan".
As a protoss player, I can tell you this is impossible wether or not there still is creep, but feel free to try and give us the feedback about it. The thing is that on the minimap, as long as you see the creep through fog, you won't be able to drop anything there unless you scout it back first. Same thing applies if you try dropping a pylon where a barrack is through fog of war (and the barrack lifted and is else where). As long as you don't scout wether or not the building/creep is still in place, you won't be able to drop anything at that location.
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On June 11 2012 12:23 StreetWise wrote:
Good catch. Although I bet it won't be long until map hackers patch this... Too bad.
They patch what? These guys got caught being obvious and not caring that you could see that they hacked. You cant patch that.
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On June 11 2012 13:23 ZweiGaming wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 13:19 Doodsmack wrote:
Can somone actually do a proper test of whether you can place a building in an area where there was previously creep but the creep has completely receded. In the video, they did not actually simulate what happened in Valjean's game. In the video, they were trying to place the nexus while the creep was actually still there (even though of course they couldn't see it). In order to prove that what Valjean did isn't possible, you would need to attempt to place the Nexus after the creep has completely receded, even though you of course can't see that it's receded. In his game, Valjean waited long enough that the creep definitely would have receded by the time he attempted to place the nexus.
It seems odd to me that a maphack would allow you to place buildings in places you normally can't. In order to avoid detection by Warden the maphacks don't interact with SC2 directly, they are somehow reading your computers memory. In order to allow you to place buildings where others can't it seems the maphack would have to be manipulating SC2 directly, otherwise we would also have mineral hacks and stuff like that.
While I definitely support the process of outing hackers we should be careful to use only credible evidence that is properly verified. This is similar to the magic scan "evidence" that Catz and company harped on about over and over on a stream in front of 6k people, without actually testing for themselves whether you can get a scan to appear off the center of your screen by clicking in the top corner of your screen. As it turned out, anyone can do a "magic scan". As a protoss player, I can tell you this is impossible wether or not there still is creep, but feel free to try and give us the feedback about it. The thing is that on the minimap, as long as you see the creep through fog, you won't be able to drop anything there unless you scout it back first. Same thing applies if you try dropping a pylon where a barrack is through fog of war (and the barrack lifted and is else where). As long as you don't scout wether or not the building/creep is still in place, you won't be able to drop anything at that location.
You could very well be right. I unfortunately am on my laptop right now and wouldn't be able to test this until tomorrow night. I'm just pointing out that you didn't properly simulate Valjean's game in your video. As it stands your video provides only flimsy evidence that Valjean hacks. The move-away at the rocks on Ohana can be explained as random chance, when you've only provided one such instance of suspicious movement. I've played many people who seemed a little fishy but when I watched the replay I realized it could just be random chance/coincedence.
One thing that would lead me to believe Valjean doesn't hack is that he does proper scouting, and seems to react to enemy unit movements only once his observer sees them. For example on Antiga as soon as roaches came within vision of his obs near his nat, he moved his units back a bit to engage. Of course it could be an elaborate cover-up, but right now your evidence comes nowhere close to proof until you properly verify your theory about the nexus on creep.
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Finland33997 Posts
On June 11 2012 13:29 Eatme wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 12:23 StreetWise wrote:
Good catch. Although I bet it won't be long until map hackers patch this... Too bad. They patch what? These guys got caught being obvious and not caring that you could see that they hacked. You cant patch that.
The maphack can be patched so that it won't let you build a nexus if you normally would have creep in your vision in the fog for example
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On June 11 2012 13:30 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 13:23 ZweiGaming wrote:On June 11 2012 13:19 Doodsmack wrote:
Can somone actually do a proper test of whether you can place a building in an area where there was previously creep but the creep has completely receded. In the video, they did not actually simulate what happened in Valjean's game. In the video, they were trying to place the nexus while the creep was actually still there (even though of course they couldn't see it). In order to prove that what Valjean did isn't possible, you would need to attempt to place the Nexus after the creep has completely receded, even though you of course can't see that it's receded. In his game, Valjean waited long enough that the creep definitely would have receded by the time he attempted to place the nexus.
It seems odd to me that a maphack would allow you to place buildings in places you normally can't. In order to avoid detection by Warden the maphacks don't interact with SC2 directly, they are somehow reading your computers memory. In order to allow you to place buildings where others can't it seems the maphack would have to be manipulating SC2 directly, otherwise we would also have mineral hacks and stuff like that.
While I definitely support the process of outing hackers we should be careful to use only credible evidence that is properly verified. This is similar to the magic scan "evidence" that Catz and company harped on about over and over on a stream in front of 6k people, without actually testing for themselves whether you can get a scan to appear off the center of your screen by clicking in the top corner of your screen. As it turned out, anyone can do a "magic scan". As a protoss player, I can tell you this is impossible wether or not there still is creep, but feel free to try and give us the feedback about it. The thing is that on the minimap, as long as you see the creep through fog, you won't be able to drop anything there unless you scout it back first. Same thing applies if you try dropping a pylon where a barrack is through fog of war (and the barrack lifted and is else where). As long as you don't scout wether or not the building/creep is still in place, you won't be able to drop anything at that location. You could very well be right. I unfortunately am on my laptop right now and wouldn't be able to test this until tomorrow night. I'm just pointing out that you didn't properly simulate Valjean's game in your video. As it stands your video provides only flimsy evidence that Valjean hacks. The move-away at the rocks on Ohana can be explained as random chance, when you've only provided one such instance of suspicious movement. I've played many people who seemed a little fishy but when I watched the replay I realized it could just be random chance/coincedence. One thing that would lead me to believe Valjean doesn't hack is that he does proper scouting, and seems to react to enemy unit movements only once his observer sees them. For example on Antiga as soon as roaches came within vision of his obs near his nat, he moved his units back a bit to engage. Of course it could be an elaborate cover-up, but right now your evidence comes nowhere close to proof until you properly verify your theory about the nexus on creep.
You are right about the fact that we do not have a lot of things to point out of his replays. The things is that the people we can call "smart" maphackers will make it look like they are legit, just like this guy. This means, the actual obvious proofs we need to be looking for won't be as easy to find, and won't happen that often. This only move makes me quite sure that he maphacks, and I bet that from his camera vision, he didn't even know he could be caught hacking as he didn't know wether or not there was supposed to be creep there. The main proof was obviously the nexus on creep, and the other things, just smaller things to look at while we were at it.
edit: I tested it, same results.
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On June 11 2012 13:19 Doodsmack wrote:
Can somone actually do a proper test of whether you can place a building in an area where there was previously creep but the creep has completely receded. In the video, they did not actually simulate what happened in Valjean's game. In the video, they were trying to place the nexus while the creep was actually still there (even though of course they couldn't see it). In order to prove that what Valjean did isn't possible, you would need to attempt to place the Nexus after the creep has completely receded, even though you of course can't see that it's receded. In his game, Valjean waited long enough that the creep definitely would have receded by the time he attempted to place the nexus.
Yeah it's the real deal. When you try to place any building on creep that is present as of your last vision, it tells you "cannot place that on creep" even if that last vision is dated and the creep has vanished; the unit assigned to place the building doesn't move and the image of the building you want to place doesn't persist as it does when you are actually able to carry out the order.
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On June 11 2012 13:30 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 13:23 ZweiGaming wrote:On June 11 2012 13:19 Doodsmack wrote:
Can somone actually do a proper test of whether you can place a building in an area where there was previously creep but the creep has completely receded. In the video, they did not actually simulate what happened in Valjean's game. In the video, they were trying to place the nexus while the creep was actually still there (even though of course they couldn't see it). In order to prove that what Valjean did isn't possible, you would need to attempt to place the Nexus after the creep has completely receded, even though you of course can't see that it's receded. In his game, Valjean waited long enough that the creep definitely would have receded by the time he attempted to place the nexus.
It seems odd to me that a maphack would allow you to place buildings in places you normally can't. In order to avoid detection by Warden the maphacks don't interact with SC2 directly, they are somehow reading your computers memory. In order to allow you to place buildings where others can't it seems the maphack would have to be manipulating SC2 directly, otherwise we would also have mineral hacks and stuff like that.
While I definitely support the process of outing hackers we should be careful to use only credible evidence that is properly verified. This is similar to the magic scan "evidence" that Catz and company harped on about over and over on a stream in front of 6k people, without actually testing for themselves whether you can get a scan to appear off the center of your screen by clicking in the top corner of your screen. As it turned out, anyone can do a "magic scan". As a protoss player, I can tell you this is impossible wether or not there still is creep, but feel free to try and give us the feedback about it. The thing is that on the minimap, as long as you see the creep through fog, you won't be able to drop anything there unless you scout it back first. Same thing applies if you try dropping a pylon where a barrack is through fog of war (and the barrack lifted and is else where). As long as you don't scout wether or not the building/creep is still in place, you won't be able to drop anything at that location. You could very well be right. I unfortunately am on my laptop right now and wouldn't be able to test this until tomorrow night. I'm just pointing out that you didn't properly simulate Valjean's game in your video. As it stands your video provides only flimsy evidence that Valjean hacks. The move-away at the rocks on Ohana can be explained as random chance, when you've only provided one such instance of suspicious movement. I've played many people who seemed a little fishy but when I watched the replay I realized it could just be random chance/coincedence. One thing that would lead me to believe Valjean doesn't hack is that he does proper scouting, and seems to react to enemy unit movements only once his observer sees them. For example on Antiga as soon as roaches came within vision of his obs near his nat, he moved his units back a bit to engage. Of course it could be an elaborate cover-up, but right now your evidence comes nowhere close to proof until you properly verify your theory about the nexus on creep.
Posts like this are representative of tl posters being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative. If you don't know simple aspects of gameplay like not being able to put down buildings on creep in fog why are you making posts like these? Especially with presumptuous wording like that...give me a break.
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On June 11 2012 13:12 ZweiGaming wrote:I'm accusing a single player, not the whole team.
@IOvEggY And what's your feeling based on..? Sounds like you're bitter about something
Btw he's not on A team (and I don't believe B team either..), see here if you want updated roster http://sc2ranks.com/c/11810/nmx/ Must be a terrible player to map hack and not get 80+% winrate imo
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Nicely done, keep up the videos, I enjoy watching map hackers get exposed !
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On June 11 2012 15:31 TylerThaCreator wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 13:30 Doodsmack wrote:On June 11 2012 13:23 ZweiGaming wrote:On June 11 2012 13:19 Doodsmack wrote:
Can somone actually do a proper test of whether you can place a building in an area where there was previously creep but the creep has completely receded. In the video, they did not actually simulate what happened in Valjean's game. In the video, they were trying to place the nexus while the creep was actually still there (even though of course they couldn't see it). In order to prove that what Valjean did isn't possible, you would need to attempt to place the Nexus after the creep has completely receded, even though you of course can't see that it's receded. In his game, Valjean waited long enough that the creep definitely would have receded by the time he attempted to place the nexus.
It seems odd to me that a maphack would allow you to place buildings in places you normally can't. In order to avoid detection by Warden the maphacks don't interact with SC2 directly, they are somehow reading your computers memory. In order to allow you to place buildings where others can't it seems the maphack would have to be manipulating SC2 directly, otherwise we would also have mineral hacks and stuff like that.
While I definitely support the process of outing hackers we should be careful to use only credible evidence that is properly verified. This is similar to the magic scan "evidence" that Catz and company harped on about over and over on a stream in front of 6k people, without actually testing for themselves whether you can get a scan to appear off the center of your screen by clicking in the top corner of your screen. As it turned out, anyone can do a "magic scan". As a protoss player, I can tell you this is impossible wether or not there still is creep, but feel free to try and give us the feedback about it. The thing is that on the minimap, as long as you see the creep through fog, you won't be able to drop anything there unless you scout it back first. Same thing applies if you try dropping a pylon where a barrack is through fog of war (and the barrack lifted and is else where). As long as you don't scout wether or not the building/creep is still in place, you won't be able to drop anything at that location. You could very well be right. I unfortunately am on my laptop right now and wouldn't be able to test this until tomorrow night. I'm just pointing out that you didn't properly simulate Valjean's game in your video. As it stands your video provides only flimsy evidence that Valjean hacks. The move-away at the rocks on Ohana can be explained as random chance, when you've only provided one such instance of suspicious movement. I've played many people who seemed a little fishy but when I watched the replay I realized it could just be random chance/coincedence. One thing that would lead me to believe Valjean doesn't hack is that he does proper scouting, and seems to react to enemy unit movements only once his observer sees them. For example on Antiga as soon as roaches came within vision of his obs near his nat, he moved his units back a bit to engage. Of course it could be an elaborate cover-up, but right now your evidence comes nowhere close to proof until you properly verify your theory about the nexus on creep. Posts like this are representative of tl posters being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative. If you don't know simple aspects of gameplay like not being able to put down buildings on creep in fog why are you making posts like these? Especially with presumptuous wording like that...give me a break.
Not really, accusations of hacking without proper evidence is a legitimate issue to be called out. If you knew about the magic scan "evidence" in the Spades replays then you would know that seemingly simple/obvious aspects of gameplay can be proven wrong.
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Oh man I just realised this guy is RevLesMis. I remember talking with people back in like season 2 or so and they were like how the fuck did LesMis suddenly get so good. Now this is a kind of shady memory cause I didn't really pay too much attention to it back then but if I'm not mistaken, he's maintained about his current rank since then, after having a huge and sudden jump both in win rate and rating back then. So, if that's the case he'd be one smart as fuck hacker to go 5 or 6 seasons without being caught.
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Nice work catching Vaejean, I played him once he was friendly but he did play quite weird for example he hard countered my mutas with phoenix range upgrade and than followed them wherever they went
its quite scary that the chances of him being caught were all resting on such a small mistake, if it wasn't for that he would have never been caught really.
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There is a certain individual in the top20 GM of europe who is 99% surely a hacker. Never scouts, or places out his overlords for map awareness. Makes 15 hatch 49 games in a row, but in the 50th game when he faces a 10pool he opts for a 14 pool no gas, and just sits in his base waiting without trying to exp at 16(before he sees the 10pool). The replays I've watched he seems to have a camera lock in many situations and his apm drops to 0.
I won't out his name for the miniscule chance that he is innocent, but rather voice my concern and that blizzard really needs to fix this.
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On June 11 2012 13:19 Doodsmack wrote:
Can somone actually do a proper test of whether you can place a building in an area where there was previously creep but the creep has completely receded. In the video, they did not actually simulate what happened in Valjean's game. In the video, they were trying to place the nexus while the creep was actually still there (even though of course they couldn't see it). In order to prove that what Valjean did isn't possible, you would need to attempt to place the Nexus after the creep has completely receded, even though you of course can't see that it's receded. In his game, Valjean waited long enough that the creep definitely would have receded by the time he attempted to place the nexus.
It seems odd to me that a maphack would allow you to place buildings in places you normally can't. In order to avoid detection by Warden the maphacks don't interact with SC2 directly, they are somehow reading your computers memory. In order to allow you to place buildings where others can't it seems the maphack would have to be manipulating SC2 directly, otherwise we would also have mineral hacks and stuff like that.
While I definitely support the process of outing hackers we should be careful to use only credible evidence that is properly verified. This is similar to the magic scan "evidence" that Catz and company harped on about over and over on a stream in front of 6k people, without actually testing for themselves whether you can get a scan to appear off the center of your screen by clicking in the top corner of your screen. As it turned out, anyone can do a "magic scan".
It's not hard to test, you can do it yourself.
From playing terran, I can garuantee 100% that you cannot place buildings where creep has receded if you haven't seen it be gone. A lot of times when I clear an overlord and then try to fly over and land my CC this is quite annoying, as I'll have to first tell it to go there and then land it, or tell some other unit to go there and then tell it to land.
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On June 12 2012 01:09 nkr wrote:
There is a certain individual in the top20 GM of europe who is 99% surely a hacker. Never scouts, or places out his overlords for map awareness. Makes 15 hatch 49 games in a row, but in the 50th game when he faces a 10pool he opts for a 14 pool no gas, and just sits in his base waiting without trying to exp at 16(before he sees the 10pool). The replays I've watched he seems to have a camera lock in many situations and his apm drops to 0.
I won't out his name for the miniscule chance that he is innocent, but rather voice my concern and that blizzard really needs to fix this.
ok i wont disagree with you and lets assume you re right....
BUT WHATS THE FUCKIN POINT OF YOUR POST THEN...?
dont have evidence , dont want to call his name , dont want him to exist in the top gm ladder.... what exactly is the meaning of your post then..?
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On June 12 2012 01:09 nkr wrote:
There is a certain individual in the top20 GM of europe who is 99% surely a hacker. Never scouts, or places out his overlords for map awareness. Makes 15 hatch 49 games in a row, but in the 50th game when he faces a 10pool he opts for a 14 pool no gas, and just sits in his base waiting without trying to exp at 16(before he sees the 10pool). The replays I've watched he seems to have a camera lock in many situations and his apm drops to 0.
I won't out his name for the miniscule chance that he is innocent, but rather voice my concern and that blizzard really needs to fix this.
Care to tell me? I can probably grab a bunch of replays of him from people unless you happen to have a lot as well. I'd like to check him out cause top 20 GMs hacking is something that really ticks me off.
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On June 12 2012 01:15 StavrosHL wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 01:09 nkr wrote:
There is a certain individual in the top20 GM of europe who is 99% surely a hacker. Never scouts, or places out his overlords for map awareness. Makes 15 hatch 49 games in a row, but in the 50th game when he faces a 10pool he opts for a 14 pool no gas, and just sits in his base waiting without trying to exp at 16(before he sees the 10pool). The replays I've watched he seems to have a camera lock in many situations and his apm drops to 0.
I won't out his name for the miniscule chance that he is innocent, but rather voice my concern and that blizzard really needs to fix this.
ok i wont disagree with you and lets assume you re right.... BUT WHATS THE FUCKIN POINT OF YOUR POST THEN...? dont have evidence , dont want to call his name , dont want him to exist in the top gm ladder.... what exactly is the meaning of your post then..?
That there are more of these people in GM, and not just in NA.
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On June 12 2012 01:17 nkr wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 01:15 StavrosHL wrote:On June 12 2012 01:09 nkr wrote:
There is a certain individual in the top20 GM of europe who is 99% surely a hacker. Never scouts, or places out his overlords for map awareness. Makes 15 hatch 49 games in a row, but in the 50th game when he faces a 10pool he opts for a 14 pool no gas, and just sits in his base waiting without trying to exp at 16(before he sees the 10pool). The replays I've watched he seems to have a camera lock in many situations and his apm drops to 0.
I won't out his name for the miniscule chance that he is innocent, but rather voice my concern and that blizzard really needs to fix this.
ok i wont disagree with you and lets assume you re right.... BUT WHATS THE FUCKIN POINT OF YOUR POST THEN...? dont have evidence , dont want to call his name , dont want him to exist in the top gm ladder.... what exactly is the meaning of your post then..? That there are more of these people in GM, and not just in NA.
you should just post the details if you're going to make a post like that. your post was the equivalent of posting "i have a great story but i'm not gonna tell you guys what it is" in that entertaining BM thread. by that I mean, you just leave people wanting more without providing any info of substance.
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EPT
