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You have to provide some kind of evidence/proof (screenshots/replays etc.) if you are going to accuse somebody.
Additionally, a supporting comment of what people should be looking for and when will be necessary if you are posting replays/evidence. |
On December 28 2014 09:43 playa wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2014 01:38 Shin_Gouki wrote:On December 27 2014 23:51 playa wrote:On December 27 2014 06:49 duckk wrote:On December 25 2014 10:41 playa wrote:On December 25 2014 07:27 AprilTerran wrote:On December 21 2014 05:43 playa wrote:On December 21 2014 04:19 AprilTerran wrote:On December 19 2014 23:07 Specialist wrote:
just don't bother playing this game if you care about hackers
because the thing is, blizzard isn't going to do much and you will have to deal with them Thank you for your relevant and insightful comment! This is from the leader of a team who was informed that a member of their team was hacking (the guy that was banned in the base trade tournament), and their response was he's legit and they wouldn't give a name. What team has barcodes, besides team ascension? How does Deezer get onto your team? Why are hackers talking about boosting accounts for your team? Specialist must have "hit close to home," because team ascension seems to be promoting them. You're thinking of Boreal eSports... Deezer was never on our team? Please feel free to provide ample evidence before making such silly claims. Normally, I wouldn't bother taking the time, but after letting Cham get away with hacking and seeing how he now plays in a hacking clan, I guess you can thank him. This can't be the future of Starcraft or there is no future for SC, when team ascension is the most prominent "legit" clan on ladder. The bottom line is, whether I'm right or not in who it is, the player banned in the base trade tournament was on their team last season. If it isn't Deezer, who is it? They should know, right? How do I know it's the same person? The truth of the matter is, on the NA ladder, atm, the biggest determining factor on your rank is how much you choose to "game select." What this means is, when you play a blatant hacker, you note them. So, when you're searching for a game, depending on your mood/how much you care about rank, you will try to make sure these people you have noted are already in a game, if they're online and not afk. So, the barcode that was on team ascension was a noted player who was in top 16. Anytime you play a hacker in the top 16, you're going to "look them up." This is an account which was unique in that not only did it finish third last season, but it was clearly a shared account, as a Zerg player took over later and finished the season. So, lots of Toss and Zerg games. After the basetrade tournament, I looked up the account I suspected it was and looked at the match history; it was the barcode who played the matches in question, the account that finished third last season, with lots of Zerg and Toss games. As for why do I think it's Deezer? Someone told me they're friends with this cheater and informed me that it was Deezer. This person even described a game I played versus them, when they had no way of knowing, otherwise. So, I will submit some screen shots of hotkey charts: 1 game played versus the account "Deezer;" 2 against the barcode when in team ascension, and 3 from the games submitted from the basetrade tournament. The chart of game that made me note the barcode and inform team ascension of hacking: http://postimg.org/image/t8uxjh8pr/Chart of a game that I played versus the account "ratzdeezer": http://postimg.org/image/6sg9d0p9f/The chart of the first game I played vs the Team A account: http://postimg.org/image/qp11ulkvl/(clearly, someone else was playing on this account) Base trade game on overgrowth: http://postimg.org/image/bpydob99p/Base trade game on foxtrot: http://postimg.org/image/gv9ex7ws1/Base trade game on merry go round: http://postimg.org/image/w0e2mlbpj/In conclusion, every game shown but one is 100% Deezer. Everything is a match. The game that isn't a match is an example of the smurfing/account sharing this team does. If you play "aprilterran" in a clan war, assume you're playing major. This is the only team that has barcodes on it. I watched nerfy stream and I saw his friend (opponent) talking to him about boosting accounts for team ascension. We can only assume a good friend of nerfys is likely to be a hacker, and maybe that person was deezer... A month ago, a friend of mine wanted to join this team and asked me what I knew about them, and I I had to inform her of what I came across on their liquipedia in the past, which was they were a team known for hacking. So, while not all of them are "bad apples," this team has done nothing to show it isn't embracing hackers. As for euphoria, who was mentioned as a hacker on the same page I chimed in, why not call them out for evidence? Is that not weird to anyone? I have one note regarding something not dealing with hacking or simply identifying a barcode. It happens to be on Euporia, and it reads as "BM kid that got bopped." I'd be so surprised to find out this guy hacks... Why is it that team ascensions highest rated players are never reputable? AprilTerran should be banned if he/she doesn't at least explain how known hackers/cheaters are getting on their team. Well, given the reason will be a lie... please just ban.. just an FYI, I have known deezer(sadly) for 8 years and he is not any of the players on that account. You have to be telling me someone is impersonating Deezer, then. Because the hotkeys are 100% a match between the ratz deezer account and the account banned in the base trade tournament. Unique hotkeys, too. Deezer isn't the /only/ player who uses the hotkeys 1-6..., and the evidence you have is truly powerful, but there are some basic discrepancies to assume it could be another player (if he's impersonating deezer, I wouldn't know). Some of the games show 1, 4 and 6 being spammed pretty hard, but a couple of games don't show the same. The first two initial replays between deezer and the barcode look really close, but it should be more consistent no? Just look at how closely related all your hotkeys are in comparison. I'm not arguing for or against here, just simply noting what I see from the graphs you've posted. You have to think about it with context. So, first off, I was informed by someone claiming to be Deezers friend that the account in question was Deezer. So, I did a compare and contrast versus a game I recently played versus someone at least pretending to be Deezer. The 1-6 is not what is significant. The biggest significance is the gap (5). It's 1-4, 6. No one does that. Then, you take into account the players had the same apm/eapm and all of the hotkeys were corresponding, and now you're trying to convince me why I should be out there committing crimes, because, apparently only taking a selfie while in the act will be damning. As for why there would be differences in spam on 6 (nexus) and 4 (gateway), well, there was a difference in games played. The game vs Ratz Deezer was a macro game. The game vs the barcode was him doing an all-in, where he stopped making probes. Whoever told me it was Deezer obviously knew who it was, because he told me all of the details about the all-in game (vs barcode), despite me not showing the replay to anyone. So, it's either Deezer or someone fooling people into believing it's Deezer. Clearly it's the same person, though, whether you want to believe that's deezer or an impersonator.
In some cases, unfortunately only a selfie DOES make a person guilty. We can only argue with circumstantial evidence. However, I do agree with you for the most part; trying to mimic someone's hotkeys is rather hard to do. I would assume it's the actual "Deezer" before I assume it's someone attempting to impersonate the same race/hotkeys. The question lies rather if the evidence is suited enough for everyone else to agree with you.
We don't have any evidence that you actually /did/ talk to someone who confirmed it was Deezer. Even if the evidence was on the table, I don't know if it would gain much traction =/
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On December 28 2014 13:46 Shin_Gouki wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2014 09:43 playa wrote:On December 28 2014 01:38 Shin_Gouki wrote:On December 27 2014 23:51 playa wrote:On December 27 2014 06:49 duckk wrote:On December 25 2014 10:41 playa wrote:On December 25 2014 07:27 AprilTerran wrote:On December 21 2014 05:43 playa wrote:On December 21 2014 04:19 AprilTerran wrote:On December 19 2014 23:07 Specialist wrote:
just don't bother playing this game if you care about hackers
because the thing is, blizzard isn't going to do much and you will have to deal with them Thank you for your relevant and insightful comment! This is from the leader of a team who was informed that a member of their team was hacking (the guy that was banned in the base trade tournament), and their response was he's legit and they wouldn't give a name. What team has barcodes, besides team ascension? How does Deezer get onto your team? Why are hackers talking about boosting accounts for your team? Specialist must have "hit close to home," because team ascension seems to be promoting them. You're thinking of Boreal eSports... Deezer was never on our team? Please feel free to provide ample evidence before making such silly claims. Normally, I wouldn't bother taking the time, but after letting Cham get away with hacking and seeing how he now plays in a hacking clan, I guess you can thank him. This can't be the future of Starcraft or there is no future for SC, when team ascension is the most prominent "legit" clan on ladder. The bottom line is, whether I'm right or not in who it is, the player banned in the base trade tournament was on their team last season. If it isn't Deezer, who is it? They should know, right? How do I know it's the same person? The truth of the matter is, on the NA ladder, atm, the biggest determining factor on your rank is how much you choose to "game select." What this means is, when you play a blatant hacker, you note them. So, when you're searching for a game, depending on your mood/how much you care about rank, you will try to make sure these people you have noted are already in a game, if they're online and not afk. So, the barcode that was on team ascension was a noted player who was in top 16. Anytime you play a hacker in the top 16, you're going to "look them up." This is an account which was unique in that not only did it finish third last season, but it was clearly a shared account, as a Zerg player took over later and finished the season. So, lots of Toss and Zerg games. After the basetrade tournament, I looked up the account I suspected it was and looked at the match history; it was the barcode who played the matches in question, the account that finished third last season, with lots of Zerg and Toss games. As for why do I think it's Deezer? Someone told me they're friends with this cheater and informed me that it was Deezer. This person even described a game I played versus them, when they had no way of knowing, otherwise. So, I will submit some screen shots of hotkey charts: 1 game played versus the account "Deezer;" 2 against the barcode when in team ascension, and 3 from the games submitted from the basetrade tournament. The chart of game that made me note the barcode and inform team ascension of hacking: http://postimg.org/image/t8uxjh8pr/Chart of a game that I played versus the account "ratzdeezer": http://postimg.org/image/6sg9d0p9f/The chart of the first game I played vs the Team A account: http://postimg.org/image/qp11ulkvl/(clearly, someone else was playing on this account) Base trade game on overgrowth: http://postimg.org/image/bpydob99p/Base trade game on foxtrot: http://postimg.org/image/gv9ex7ws1/Base trade game on merry go round: http://postimg.org/image/w0e2mlbpj/In conclusion, every game shown but one is 100% Deezer. Everything is a match. The game that isn't a match is an example of the smurfing/account sharing this team does. If you play "aprilterran" in a clan war, assume you're playing major. This is the only team that has barcodes on it. I watched nerfy stream and I saw his friend (opponent) talking to him about boosting accounts for team ascension. We can only assume a good friend of nerfys is likely to be a hacker, and maybe that person was deezer... A month ago, a friend of mine wanted to join this team and asked me what I knew about them, and I I had to inform her of what I came across on their liquipedia in the past, which was they were a team known for hacking. So, while not all of them are "bad apples," this team has done nothing to show it isn't embracing hackers. As for euphoria, who was mentioned as a hacker on the same page I chimed in, why not call them out for evidence? Is that not weird to anyone? I have one note regarding something not dealing with hacking or simply identifying a barcode. It happens to be on Euporia, and it reads as "BM kid that got bopped." I'd be so surprised to find out this guy hacks... Why is it that team ascensions highest rated players are never reputable? AprilTerran should be banned if he/she doesn't at least explain how known hackers/cheaters are getting on their team. Well, given the reason will be a lie... please just ban.. just an FYI, I have known deezer(sadly) for 8 years and he is not any of the players on that account. You have to be telling me someone is impersonating Deezer, then. Because the hotkeys are 100% a match between the ratz deezer account and the account banned in the base trade tournament. Unique hotkeys, too. Deezer isn't the /only/ player who uses the hotkeys 1-6..., and the evidence you have is truly powerful, but there are some basic discrepancies to assume it could be another player (if he's impersonating deezer, I wouldn't know). Some of the games show 1, 4 and 6 being spammed pretty hard, but a couple of games don't show the same. The first two initial replays between deezer and the barcode look really close, but it should be more consistent no? Just look at how closely related all your hotkeys are in comparison. I'm not arguing for or against here, just simply noting what I see from the graphs you've posted. You have to think about it with context. So, first off, I was informed by someone claiming to be Deezers friend that the account in question was Deezer. So, I did a compare and contrast versus a game I recently played versus someone at least pretending to be Deezer. The 1-6 is not what is significant. The biggest significance is the gap (5). It's 1-4, 6. No one does that. Then, you take into account the players had the same apm/eapm and all of the hotkeys were corresponding, and now you're trying to convince me why I should be out there committing crimes, because, apparently only taking a selfie while in the act will be damning. As for why there would be differences in spam on 6 (nexus) and 4 (gateway), well, there was a difference in games played. The game vs Ratz Deezer was a macro game. The game vs the barcode was him doing an all-in, where he stopped making probes. Whoever told me it was Deezer obviously knew who it was, because he told me all of the details about the all-in game (vs barcode), despite me not showing the replay to anyone. So, it's either Deezer or someone fooling people into believing it's Deezer. Clearly it's the same person, though, whether you want to believe that's deezer or an impersonator. In some cases, unfortunately only a selfie DOES make a person guilty. We can only argue with circumstantial evidence. However, I do agree with you for the most part; trying to mimic someone's hotkeys is rather hard to do. I would assume it's the actual "Deezer" before I assume it's someone attempting to impersonate the same race/hotkeys. The question lies rather if the evidence is suited enough for everyone else to agree with you. We don't have any evidence that you actually /did/ talk to someone who confirmed it was Deezer. Even if the evidence was on the table, I don't know if it would gain much traction =/
You also have to factor in "both players" did absolutely ZERO scouting. In the barcode all-in game, I got all-in'd on a 3 player map, where he was throwing up aggressive pylons before he could have known what base I was at. In the macro game, 0 scouting, too. No probes, no hallucinations.
I have no idea whether it's Deezer or an impersonator. It's just obviously the same person in all of these games, sans 1. If it's not the same person, hacking is way bigger than is even being acknowledged, because the odds are astronomical.
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On December 28 2014 09:43 playa wrote:
The 1-6 is not what is significant. The biggest significance is the gap (5). It's 1-4, 6. No one does that.
....are you serious.
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On December 28 2014 13:53 playa wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2014 13:46 Shin_Gouki wrote:On December 28 2014 09:43 playa wrote:On December 28 2014 01:38 Shin_Gouki wrote:On December 27 2014 23:51 playa wrote:On December 27 2014 06:49 duckk wrote:On December 25 2014 10:41 playa wrote:On December 25 2014 07:27 AprilTerran wrote:On December 21 2014 05:43 playa wrote:On December 21 2014 04:19 AprilTerran wrote:
[quote]
Thank you for your relevant and insightful comment! This is from the leader of a team who was informed that a member of their team was hacking (the guy that was banned in the base trade tournament), and their response was he's legit and they wouldn't give a name. What team has barcodes, besides team ascension? How does Deezer get onto your team? Why are hackers talking about boosting accounts for your team? Specialist must have "hit close to home," because team ascension seems to be promoting them. You're thinking of Boreal eSports... Deezer was never on our team? Please feel free to provide ample evidence before making such silly claims. Normally, I wouldn't bother taking the time, but after letting Cham get away with hacking and seeing how he now plays in a hacking clan, I guess you can thank him. This can't be the future of Starcraft or there is no future for SC, when team ascension is the most prominent "legit" clan on ladder. The bottom line is, whether I'm right or not in who it is, the player banned in the base trade tournament was on their team last season. If it isn't Deezer, who is it? They should know, right? How do I know it's the same person? The truth of the matter is, on the NA ladder, atm, the biggest determining factor on your rank is how much you choose to "game select." What this means is, when you play a blatant hacker, you note them. So, when you're searching for a game, depending on your mood/how much you care about rank, you will try to make sure these people you have noted are already in a game, if they're online and not afk. So, the barcode that was on team ascension was a noted player who was in top 16. Anytime you play a hacker in the top 16, you're going to "look them up." This is an account which was unique in that not only did it finish third last season, but it was clearly a shared account, as a Zerg player took over later and finished the season. So, lots of Toss and Zerg games. After the basetrade tournament, I looked up the account I suspected it was and looked at the match history; it was the barcode who played the matches in question, the account that finished third last season, with lots of Zerg and Toss games. As for why do I think it's Deezer? Someone told me they're friends with this cheater and informed me that it was Deezer. This person even described a game I played versus them, when they had no way of knowing, otherwise. So, I will submit some screen shots of hotkey charts: 1 game played versus the account "Deezer;" 2 against the barcode when in team ascension, and 3 from the games submitted from the basetrade tournament. The chart of game that made me note the barcode and inform team ascension of hacking: http://postimg.org/image/t8uxjh8pr/Chart of a game that I played versus the account "ratzdeezer": http://postimg.org/image/6sg9d0p9f/The chart of the first game I played vs the Team A account: http://postimg.org/image/qp11ulkvl/(clearly, someone else was playing on this account) Base trade game on overgrowth: http://postimg.org/image/bpydob99p/Base trade game on foxtrot: http://postimg.org/image/gv9ex7ws1/Base trade game on merry go round: http://postimg.org/image/w0e2mlbpj/In conclusion, every game shown but one is 100% Deezer. Everything is a match. The game that isn't a match is an example of the smurfing/account sharing this team does. If you play "aprilterran" in a clan war, assume you're playing major. This is the only team that has barcodes on it. I watched nerfy stream and I saw his friend (opponent) talking to him about boosting accounts for team ascension. We can only assume a good friend of nerfys is likely to be a hacker, and maybe that person was deezer... A month ago, a friend of mine wanted to join this team and asked me what I knew about them, and I I had to inform her of what I came across on their liquipedia in the past, which was they were a team known for hacking. So, while not all of them are "bad apples," this team has done nothing to show it isn't embracing hackers. As for euphoria, who was mentioned as a hacker on the same page I chimed in, why not call them out for evidence? Is that not weird to anyone? I have one note regarding something not dealing with hacking or simply identifying a barcode. It happens to be on Euporia, and it reads as "BM kid that got bopped." I'd be so surprised to find out this guy hacks... Why is it that team ascensions highest rated players are never reputable? AprilTerran should be banned if he/she doesn't at least explain how known hackers/cheaters are getting on their team. Well, given the reason will be a lie... please just ban.. just an FYI, I have known deezer(sadly) for 8 years and he is not any of the players on that account. You have to be telling me someone is impersonating Deezer, then. Because the hotkeys are 100% a match between the ratz deezer account and the account banned in the base trade tournament. Unique hotkeys, too. Deezer isn't the /only/ player who uses the hotkeys 1-6..., and the evidence you have is truly powerful, but there are some basic discrepancies to assume it could be another player (if he's impersonating deezer, I wouldn't know). Some of the games show 1, 4 and 6 being spammed pretty hard, but a couple of games don't show the same. The first two initial replays between deezer and the barcode look really close, but it should be more consistent no? Just look at how closely related all your hotkeys are in comparison. I'm not arguing for or against here, just simply noting what I see from the graphs you've posted. You have to think about it with context. So, first off, I was informed by someone claiming to be Deezers friend that the account in question was Deezer. So, I did a compare and contrast versus a game I recently played versus someone at least pretending to be Deezer. The 1-6 is not what is significant. The biggest significance is the gap (5). It's 1-4, 6. No one does that. Then, you take into account the players had the same apm/eapm and all of the hotkeys were corresponding, and now you're trying to convince me why I should be out there committing crimes, because, apparently only taking a selfie while in the act will be damning. As for why there would be differences in spam on 6 (nexus) and 4 (gateway), well, there was a difference in games played. The game vs Ratz Deezer was a macro game. The game vs the barcode was him doing an all-in, where he stopped making probes. Whoever told me it was Deezer obviously knew who it was, because he told me all of the details about the all-in game (vs barcode), despite me not showing the replay to anyone. So, it's either Deezer or someone fooling people into believing it's Deezer. Clearly it's the same person, though, whether you want to believe that's deezer or an impersonator. In some cases, unfortunately only a selfie DOES make a person guilty. We can only argue with circumstantial evidence. However, I do agree with you for the most part; trying to mimic someone's hotkeys is rather hard to do. I would assume it's the actual "Deezer" before I assume it's someone attempting to impersonate the same race/hotkeys. The question lies rather if the evidence is suited enough for everyone else to agree with you. We don't have any evidence that you actually /did/ talk to someone who confirmed it was Deezer. Even if the evidence was on the table, I don't know if it would gain much traction =/ You also have to factor in "both players" did absolutely ZERO scouting. In the barcode all-in game, I got all-in'd on a 3 player map, where he was throwing up aggressive pylons before he could have known what base I was at. In the macro game, 0 scouting, too. No probes, no hallucinations. I have no idea whether it's Deezer or an impersonator. It's just obviously the same person in all of these games, sans 1. If it's not the same person, hacking is way bigger than is even being acknowledged, because the odds are astronomical.
When it comes to calling the person a hacker, there's no doubts there. However, calling the person "Deezer" is my only actual concern. Like I said already though, it's /hard/, as you've stated, to impersonate hotkeys. It most likely is the person we've all hated since WoL and even back further. I don't know if anything will be done from TAsc's side, assuming that they agree with your claims.
....are you serious.
In his defense, I would make the same claim too. However, he does have some traction right?
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On December 28 2014 13:59 GGzerG wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2014 09:43 playa wrote:
The 1-6 is not what is significant. The biggest significance is the gap (5). It's 1-4, 6. No one does that.
....are you serious.
Yeah, I am serious. Go through Toss replays and see how many people use 6 but not 5. That's like using 2-5 but not using 1, and then acting like that's common.
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On December 28 2014 14:00 Shin_Gouki wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2014 13:53 playa wrote:On December 28 2014 13:46 Shin_Gouki wrote:On December 28 2014 09:43 playa wrote:On December 28 2014 01:38 Shin_Gouki wrote:On December 27 2014 23:51 playa wrote:On December 27 2014 06:49 duckk wrote:On December 25 2014 10:41 playa wrote:On December 25 2014 07:27 AprilTerran wrote:On December 21 2014 05:43 playa wrote:
[quote]
This is from the leader of a team who was informed that a member of their team was hacking (the guy that was banned in the base trade tournament), and their response was he's legit and they wouldn't give a name. What team has barcodes, besides team ascension? How does Deezer get onto your team? Why are hackers talking about boosting accounts for your team?
Specialist must have "hit close to home," because team ascension seems to be promoting them. You're thinking of Boreal eSports... Deezer was never on our team? Please feel free to provide ample evidence before making such silly claims. Normally, I wouldn't bother taking the time, but after letting Cham get away with hacking and seeing how he now plays in a hacking clan, I guess you can thank him. This can't be the future of Starcraft or there is no future for SC, when team ascension is the most prominent "legit" clan on ladder. The bottom line is, whether I'm right or not in who it is, the player banned in the base trade tournament was on their team last season. If it isn't Deezer, who is it? They should know, right? How do I know it's the same person? The truth of the matter is, on the NA ladder, atm, the biggest determining factor on your rank is how much you choose to "game select." What this means is, when you play a blatant hacker, you note them. So, when you're searching for a game, depending on your mood/how much you care about rank, you will try to make sure these people you have noted are already in a game, if they're online and not afk. So, the barcode that was on team ascension was a noted player who was in top 16. Anytime you play a hacker in the top 16, you're going to "look them up." This is an account which was unique in that not only did it finish third last season, but it was clearly a shared account, as a Zerg player took over later and finished the season. So, lots of Toss and Zerg games. After the basetrade tournament, I looked up the account I suspected it was and looked at the match history; it was the barcode who played the matches in question, the account that finished third last season, with lots of Zerg and Toss games. As for why do I think it's Deezer? Someone told me they're friends with this cheater and informed me that it was Deezer. This person even described a game I played versus them, when they had no way of knowing, otherwise. So, I will submit some screen shots of hotkey charts: 1 game played versus the account "Deezer;" 2 against the barcode when in team ascension, and 3 from the games submitted from the basetrade tournament. The chart of game that made me note the barcode and inform team ascension of hacking: http://postimg.org/image/t8uxjh8pr/Chart of a game that I played versus the account "ratzdeezer": http://postimg.org/image/6sg9d0p9f/The chart of the first game I played vs the Team A account: http://postimg.org/image/qp11ulkvl/(clearly, someone else was playing on this account) Base trade game on overgrowth: http://postimg.org/image/bpydob99p/Base trade game on foxtrot: http://postimg.org/image/gv9ex7ws1/Base trade game on merry go round: http://postimg.org/image/w0e2mlbpj/In conclusion, every game shown but one is 100% Deezer. Everything is a match. The game that isn't a match is an example of the smurfing/account sharing this team does. If you play "aprilterran" in a clan war, assume you're playing major. This is the only team that has barcodes on it. I watched nerfy stream and I saw his friend (opponent) talking to him about boosting accounts for team ascension. We can only assume a good friend of nerfys is likely to be a hacker, and maybe that person was deezer... A month ago, a friend of mine wanted to join this team and asked me what I knew about them, and I I had to inform her of what I came across on their liquipedia in the past, which was they were a team known for hacking. So, while not all of them are "bad apples," this team has done nothing to show it isn't embracing hackers. As for euphoria, who was mentioned as a hacker on the same page I chimed in, why not call them out for evidence? Is that not weird to anyone? I have one note regarding something not dealing with hacking or simply identifying a barcode. It happens to be on Euporia, and it reads as "BM kid that got bopped." I'd be so surprised to find out this guy hacks... Why is it that team ascensions highest rated players are never reputable? AprilTerran should be banned if he/she doesn't at least explain how known hackers/cheaters are getting on their team. Well, given the reason will be a lie... please just ban.. just an FYI, I have known deezer(sadly) for 8 years and he is not any of the players on that account. You have to be telling me someone is impersonating Deezer, then. Because the hotkeys are 100% a match between the ratz deezer account and the account banned in the base trade tournament. Unique hotkeys, too. Deezer isn't the /only/ player who uses the hotkeys 1-6..., and the evidence you have is truly powerful, but there are some basic discrepancies to assume it could be another player (if he's impersonating deezer, I wouldn't know). Some of the games show 1, 4 and 6 being spammed pretty hard, but a couple of games don't show the same. The first two initial replays between deezer and the barcode look really close, but it should be more consistent no? Just look at how closely related all your hotkeys are in comparison. I'm not arguing for or against here, just simply noting what I see from the graphs you've posted. You have to think about it with context. So, first off, I was informed by someone claiming to be Deezers friend that the account in question was Deezer. So, I did a compare and contrast versus a game I recently played versus someone at least pretending to be Deezer. The 1-6 is not what is significant. The biggest significance is the gap (5). It's 1-4, 6. No one does that. Then, you take into account the players had the same apm/eapm and all of the hotkeys were corresponding, and now you're trying to convince me why I should be out there committing crimes, because, apparently only taking a selfie while in the act will be damning. As for why there would be differences in spam on 6 (nexus) and 4 (gateway), well, there was a difference in games played. The game vs Ratz Deezer was a macro game. The game vs the barcode was him doing an all-in, where he stopped making probes. Whoever told me it was Deezer obviously knew who it was, because he told me all of the details about the all-in game (vs barcode), despite me not showing the replay to anyone. So, it's either Deezer or someone fooling people into believing it's Deezer. Clearly it's the same person, though, whether you want to believe that's deezer or an impersonator. In some cases, unfortunately only a selfie DOES make a person guilty. We can only argue with circumstantial evidence. However, I do agree with you for the most part; trying to mimic someone's hotkeys is rather hard to do. I would assume it's the actual "Deezer" before I assume it's someone attempting to impersonate the same race/hotkeys. The question lies rather if the evidence is suited enough for everyone else to agree with you. We don't have any evidence that you actually /did/ talk to someone who confirmed it was Deezer. Even if the evidence was on the table, I don't know if it would gain much traction =/ You also have to factor in "both players" did absolutely ZERO scouting. In the barcode all-in game, I got all-in'd on a 3 player map, where he was throwing up aggressive pylons before he could have known what base I was at. In the macro game, 0 scouting, too. No probes, no hallucinations. I have no idea whether it's Deezer or an impersonator. It's just obviously the same person in all of these games, sans 1. If it's not the same person, hacking is way bigger than is even being acknowledged, because the odds are astronomical. When it comes to calling the person a hacker, there's no doubts there. However, calling the person "Deezer" is my only actual concern. Like I said already though, it's /hard/, as you've stated, to impersonate hotkeys. It most likely is the person we've all hated since WoL and even back further. I don't know if anything will be done from TAsc's side, assuming that they agree with your claims. In his defense, I would make the same claim too. However, he does have some traction right?
It could be an impersonator for all I know. I saw, recently, that there was a twitter account where "Deezer" was claiming to be the number 1 account on ladder (one that was banned in basetrade tournament).
https://twitter.com/deezersc2
Deezer is "before my time." I don't really care who it is, just as long as I don't have to debate the obvious -- that's it's the same person in these games.
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It maybe "Uncommon" , but trying to say it is sheer proof because someone uses 1-6 and not 5, is really ridiculous and silly...unless you have replays where the hotkey sequences are all identical throughout games, i don't think this is reliable, and even if there was 5-10 replays where it was almost identical, it is still nearly impossible to prove it is the same person, right?
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On December 28 2014 15:05 GGzerG wrote:
It maybe "Uncommon" , but trying to say it is sheer proof because someone uses 1-6 and not 5, is really ridiculous and silly...unless you have replays where the hotkey sequences are all identical throughout games, i don't think this is reliable, and even if there was 5-10 replays where it was almost identical, it is still nearly impossible to prove it is the same person, right?
Depends how generic or unique the pattern is. If you were in the BW scene, you would know there was "Romad," I believe, who was considered to be a hotkey savant. He identified every smurf via hotkey analysis. I've never heard of him being wrong. He was absolutely incredible. It's not hard to realize matches. The hard part is remembering all of the different hotkeys and patterns players have. The more hotkeys you're aware of, the more sure you can be about something being unique, though.
No one has the same hotkeys I have. And, even if they did, which they don't, what are the odds of the apm/eapm being similar enough? Hotkey analysis is SC 2's version of DNA testing. Given enough knowledge, they're probably close to comparable in effectiveness, too.
Then, when you bring common sense into the equation, you can limit the possibilities, ie., How many players are capable of being number 1 on the NA ladder with Toss, be it legit or illegitimately, and what are their hotkeys? If the only person who ends up sharing that pattern is Deezer, then, well, that's who it is.
Coincidentally/ironically I came across an old Destiny vod the other day where he was using hotkey analysis to determine whether he was playing vs Deezer or not. I didn't look closely enough to take note of what the hotkeys were back then.
I can't PM people since I told manifesto that I didn't have anything to say to him... but someone told me via PM that they would share more details about this if I was interested. Maybe you're more interested than I am and haven't told manifesto you didn't have anything to say to him.
If I'm interested about anyone, it's Cham because this guy is doing better on ladders than when he was blatantly cheating. And, recently, he gave an interview where he said he would love to stream and really wants to, but he simply doesn't have enough time "or something like that." It's inexcusable that this guy is allowed to play in tournaments without streaming his games. This guy is playing all of his games in the hacker clan, under magical. Top 6 now on the ladder. I've never heard him say he doesn't hack, yet is anyone going to even review his online tournament games in the future?
It's such a bad precedent when SC 2 can't even handle the hackers that are known, let alone ones that are unknown.
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Hacker name: Hasi
Server: EU
League: GM
Description: obvious maphacker, send his stalker straight to my overlord to kill it in fog, send stalker straight to another overlord in fog near his base to deny scouting. send probe to my third and suddenly change direction to avoid my overlord and lings in center of the map.
Bnet profile: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/fr/profile/2307573/1/Hasi/
Replay: http://drop.sc/390864
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Netherlands4511 Posts
On December 28 2014 16:04 playa wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2014 15:05 GGzerG wrote:
It maybe "Uncommon" , but trying to say it is sheer proof because someone uses 1-6 and not 5, is really ridiculous and silly...unless you have replays where the hotkey sequences are all identical throughout games, i don't think this is reliable, and even if there was 5-10 replays where it was almost identical, it is still nearly impossible to prove it is the same person, right? Depends how generic or unique the pattern is. If you were in the BW scene, you would know there was "Romad," I believe, who was considered to be a hotkey savant. He identified every smurf via hotkey analysis. I've never heard of him being wrong. He was absolutely incredible. It's not hard to realize matches. The hard part is remembering all of the different hotkeys and patterns players have. The more hotkeys you're aware of, the more sure you can be about something being unique, though. No one has the same hotkeys I have. And, even if they did, which they don't, what are the odds of the apm/eapm being similar enough? Hotkey analysis is SC 2's version of DNA testing. Given enough knowledge, they're probably close to comparable in effectiveness, too. Then, when you bring common sense into the equation, you can limit the possibilities, ie., How many players are capable of being number 1 on the NA ladder with Toss, be it legit or illegitimately, and what are their hotkeys? If the only person who ends up sharing that pattern is Deezer, then, well, that's who it is. Coincidentally/ironically I came across an old Destiny vod the other day where he was using hotkey analysis to determine whether he was playing vs Deezer or not. I didn't look closely enough to take note of what the hotkeys were back then. I can't PM people since I told manifesto that I didn't have anything to say to him... but someone told me via PM that they would share more details about this if I was interested. Maybe you're more interested than I am and haven't told manifesto you didn't have anything to say to him. If I'm interested about anyone, it's Cham because this guy is doing better on ladders than when he was blatantly cheating. And, recently, he gave an interview where he said he would love to stream and really wants to, but he simply doesn't have enough time "or something like that." It's inexcusable that this guy is allowed to play in tournaments without streaming his games. This guy is playing all of his games in the hacker clan, under magical. Top 6 now on the ladder. I've never heard him say he doesn't hack, yet is anyone going to even review his online tournament games in the future? It's such a bad precedent when SC 2 can't even handle the hackers that are known, let alone ones that are unknown.
are you to the gm protoss on na?
if so, even if you were compeltly correct on everything you said, it's really hard to take you seriously when you randomly accuse legit players after 5 minutes of gameplay as well :S
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On December 29 2014 18:10 Liquid`Ret wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2014 16:04 playa wrote:On December 28 2014 15:05 GGzerG wrote:
It maybe "Uncommon" , but trying to say it is sheer proof because someone uses 1-6 and not 5, is really ridiculous and silly...unless you have replays where the hotkey sequences are all identical throughout games, i don't think this is reliable, and even if there was 5-10 replays where it was almost identical, it is still nearly impossible to prove it is the same person, right? Depends how generic or unique the pattern is. If you were in the BW scene, you would know there was "Romad," I believe, who was considered to be a hotkey savant. He identified every smurf via hotkey analysis. I've never heard of him being wrong. He was absolutely incredible. It's not hard to realize matches. The hard part is remembering all of the different hotkeys and patterns players have. The more hotkeys you're aware of, the more sure you can be about something being unique, though. No one has the same hotkeys I have. And, even if they did, which they don't, what are the odds of the apm/eapm being similar enough? Hotkey analysis is SC 2's version of DNA testing. Given enough knowledge, they're probably close to comparable in effectiveness, too. Then, when you bring common sense into the equation, you can limit the possibilities, ie., How many players are capable of being number 1 on the NA ladder with Toss, be it legit or illegitimately, and what are their hotkeys? If the only person who ends up sharing that pattern is Deezer, then, well, that's who it is. Coincidentally/ironically I came across an old Destiny vod the other day where he was using hotkey analysis to determine whether he was playing vs Deezer or not. I didn't look closely enough to take note of what the hotkeys were back then. I can't PM people since I told manifesto that I didn't have anything to say to him... but someone told me via PM that they would share more details about this if I was interested. Maybe you're more interested than I am and haven't told manifesto you didn't have anything to say to him. If I'm interested about anyone, it's Cham because this guy is doing better on ladders than when he was blatantly cheating. And, recently, he gave an interview where he said he would love to stream and really wants to, but he simply doesn't have enough time "or something like that." It's inexcusable that this guy is allowed to play in tournaments without streaming his games. This guy is playing all of his games in the hacker clan, under magical. Top 6 now on the ladder. I've never heard him say he doesn't hack, yet is anyone going to even review his online tournament games in the future? It's such a bad precedent when SC 2 can't even handle the hackers that are known, let alone ones that are unknown. are you to the gm protoss on na? if so, it's really hard for anyone to take you seriously when you randomly accuse legit players after 5 minutes of gameplay :S
Are you the guy I just played or something? If so, you might have been too busy making drones to realize normal players don't go afk with their overlords in the middle of someone's base. If you play on NA and you haven't called someone a hacker within the first 5 minutes of a game, then you're probably hacking yourself.
I've been called a hacker in probably 30% of my games, if not more, this past month. I've maybe played one game versus Nathanias in my life, where he hasn't randomly called me a hacker. Maybe people shouldn't take him seriously. I've even been reported in this thread a few days ago, despite playing while on stream.
It doesn't bother me. I understand it. Something is wrong with you if you're playing on NA and you're not paranoid of everyone, the past few months. Here is an example of why I would personally call someone out for going afk in my base. A day ago or so, I played a Zerg who didn't scout my natural with anything, and he just had an overlord afk in my base for 5 or so minutes. Then, he 2 base all-in'd me. He never showed any interest in scouting my natural to see what my defense was. It was probably that Chiraq guy. I lost that game because I didn't say anything. I just kept staring at his overlord and I forgot to make my mother ship core.
The moral of the story is, when you play someone who is either hacking or having a bronze league moment, you should inquire about their legitimacy to get a better feel for whether you're playing a legit player or not. Otherwise, you're just going to further mind f yourself and have no clue of how you should approach the game.
There is a HUGE difference between reporting someone in a thread or elsewhere and calling them a hacker during the game. You know this, right? In this thread, if I've reported someone who I said hacked and they didn't, they would be the first. I didn't even bother to upload replay vs Cham because the guy had already admitted to hacking in the past and was getting reported every other week prior to me making an accusation (and I knew nothing of this beforehand). Even now, he has never told me he doesn't hack. He plays in a hacking clan now. What do you think his stance is on hackers?
If I called someone a hacker, reviewed the replay and then reported on them... the truth of the matter is, they were hacking on a level that was as blatant as nerfy has ever been. That's why I don't even really bother to report hackers: if it's at that point, then everyone already knows, anyways.
Normally, all you can say is someone is suspicious or plays weird. Virium, to me, plays like a hacker. Bubbles, I've just recently played for the first times and this is the weirdest player I've played. I don't know if he hacks, he probably doesn't. But, I wouldn't bet on me being able to get away with a proxy pylon in the next 30 games versus him. There's literally only 2 people I can think of even mentioning that aren't "nerfy" level.
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Netherlands4511 Posts
On December 29 2014 18:38 playa wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2014 18:10 Liquid`Ret wrote:On December 28 2014 16:04 playa wrote:On December 28 2014 15:05 GGzerG wrote:
It maybe "Uncommon" , but trying to say it is sheer proof because someone uses 1-6 and not 5, is really ridiculous and silly...unless you have replays where the hotkey sequences are all identical throughout games, i don't think this is reliable, and even if there was 5-10 replays where it was almost identical, it is still nearly impossible to prove it is the same person, right? Depends how generic or unique the pattern is. If you were in the BW scene, you would know there was "Romad," I believe, who was considered to be a hotkey savant. He identified every smurf via hotkey analysis. I've never heard of him being wrong. He was absolutely incredible. It's not hard to realize matches. The hard part is remembering all of the different hotkeys and patterns players have. The more hotkeys you're aware of, the more sure you can be about something being unique, though. No one has the same hotkeys I have. And, even if they did, which they don't, what are the odds of the apm/eapm being similar enough? Hotkey analysis is SC 2's version of DNA testing. Given enough knowledge, they're probably close to comparable in effectiveness, too. Then, when you bring common sense into the equation, you can limit the possibilities, ie., How many players are capable of being number 1 on the NA ladder with Toss, be it legit or illegitimately, and what are their hotkeys? If the only person who ends up sharing that pattern is Deezer, then, well, that's who it is. Coincidentally/ironically I came across an old Destiny vod the other day where he was using hotkey analysis to determine whether he was playing vs Deezer or not. I didn't look closely enough to take note of what the hotkeys were back then. I can't PM people since I told manifesto that I didn't have anything to say to him... but someone told me via PM that they would share more details about this if I was interested. Maybe you're more interested than I am and haven't told manifesto you didn't have anything to say to him. If I'm interested about anyone, it's Cham because this guy is doing better on ladders than when he was blatantly cheating. And, recently, he gave an interview where he said he would love to stream and really wants to, but he simply doesn't have enough time "or something like that." It's inexcusable that this guy is allowed to play in tournaments without streaming his games. This guy is playing all of his games in the hacker clan, under magical. Top 6 now on the ladder. I've never heard him say he doesn't hack, yet is anyone going to even review his online tournament games in the future? It's such a bad precedent when SC 2 can't even handle the hackers that are known, let alone ones that are unknown. are you to the gm protoss on na? if so, it's really hard for anyone to take you seriously when you randomly accuse legit players after 5 minutes of gameplay :S Are you the guy I just played or something? If so, you might have been too busy making drones to realize normal players don't go afk with their overlords in the middle of someone's base. If you play on NA and you haven't called someone a hacker within the first 5 minutes of a game, then you're probably hacking yourself. I've been called a hacker in probably 30% of my games, if not more, this past month. I've maybe played one game versus Nathanias in my life, where he hasn't randomly called me a hacker. Maybe people shouldn't take him seriously. I've even been reported in this thread a few days ago, despite playing while on stream. It doesn't bother me. I understand it. Something is wrong with you if you're playing on NA and you're not paranoid of everyone, the past few months. Here is an example of why I would personally call someone out for going afk in my base. A day ago or so, I played a Zerg who didn't scout my natural with anything, and he just had an overlord afk in my base for 5 or so minutes. Then, he 2 base all-in'd me. He never showed any interest in scouting my natural to see what my defense was. It was probably that Chiraq guy. I lost that game because I didn't say anything. I just kept staring at his overlord and I forgot to make my mother ship core. The moral of the story is, when you play someone who is either hacking or having a bronze league moment, you should inquire about their legitimacy to get a better feel for whether you're playing a legit player or not. Otherwise, you're just going to further mind f yourself and have no clue of how you should approach the game. There is a HUGE difference between reporting someone in a thread or elsewhere and calling them a hacker during the game. You know this, right? In this thread, if I've reported someone who I said hacked and they didn't, they would be the first. I didn't even bother to upload replay vs Cham because the guy had already admitted to hacking in the past and was getting reported every other week prior to me making an accusation (and I knew nothing of this beforehand). Even now, he has never told me he doesn't hack. He plays in a hacking clan now. What do you think his stance is on hackers? If I called someone a hacker, reviewed the replay and then reported on them... the truth of the matter is, they were hacking on a level that was as blatant as nerfy has ever been. That's why I don't even really bother to report hackers: if it's at that point, then everyone already knows, anyways. Normally, all you can say is someone is suspicious or plays weird. Virium, to me, plays like a hacker. Bubbles, I've just recently played for the first times and this is the weirdest player I've played. I don't know if he hacks, he probably doesn't. But, I wouldn't bet on me being able to get away with a proxy pylon in the next 30 games versus him. There's literally only 2 people I can think of even mentioning that aren't "nerfy" level.
when you accuse everyone you play because they move an overlord and your zealots die... youre almost as bad as the people actually hacking man. Your response is just.....uhhhhhh. You went late core, nexus into forge. There was no anti air .. what the hell. Then your 3 zealots killed a ling on the way to my base and only by the time it was very obvious that your 3 zealots did 0 damage, you started calling me a hacker.... You belong on NA with all the hackers imo.
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On December 29 2014 19:23 Liquid`Ret wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2014 18:38 playa wrote:On December 29 2014 18:10 Liquid`Ret wrote:On December 28 2014 16:04 playa wrote:On December 28 2014 15:05 GGzerG wrote:
It maybe "Uncommon" , but trying to say it is sheer proof because someone uses 1-6 and not 5, is really ridiculous and silly...unless you have replays where the hotkey sequences are all identical throughout games, i don't think this is reliable, and even if there was 5-10 replays where it was almost identical, it is still nearly impossible to prove it is the same person, right? Depends how generic or unique the pattern is. If you were in the BW scene, you would know there was "Romad," I believe, who was considered to be a hotkey savant. He identified every smurf via hotkey analysis. I've never heard of him being wrong. He was absolutely incredible. It's not hard to realize matches. The hard part is remembering all of the different hotkeys and patterns players have. The more hotkeys you're aware of, the more sure you can be about something being unique, though. No one has the same hotkeys I have. And, even if they did, which they don't, what are the odds of the apm/eapm being similar enough? Hotkey analysis is SC 2's version of DNA testing. Given enough knowledge, they're probably close to comparable in effectiveness, too. Then, when you bring common sense into the equation, you can limit the possibilities, ie., How many players are capable of being number 1 on the NA ladder with Toss, be it legit or illegitimately, and what are their hotkeys? If the only person who ends up sharing that pattern is Deezer, then, well, that's who it is. Coincidentally/ironically I came across an old Destiny vod the other day where he was using hotkey analysis to determine whether he was playing vs Deezer or not. I didn't look closely enough to take note of what the hotkeys were back then. I can't PM people since I told manifesto that I didn't have anything to say to him... but someone told me via PM that they would share more details about this if I was interested. Maybe you're more interested than I am and haven't told manifesto you didn't have anything to say to him. If I'm interested about anyone, it's Cham because this guy is doing better on ladders than when he was blatantly cheating. And, recently, he gave an interview where he said he would love to stream and really wants to, but he simply doesn't have enough time "or something like that." It's inexcusable that this guy is allowed to play in tournaments without streaming his games. This guy is playing all of his games in the hacker clan, under magical. Top 6 now on the ladder. I've never heard him say he doesn't hack, yet is anyone going to even review his online tournament games in the future? It's such a bad precedent when SC 2 can't even handle the hackers that are known, let alone ones that are unknown. are you to the gm protoss on na? if so, it's really hard for anyone to take you seriously when you randomly accuse legit players after 5 minutes of gameplay :S Are you the guy I just played or something? If so, you might have been too busy making drones to realize normal players don't go afk with their overlords in the middle of someone's base. If you play on NA and you haven't called someone a hacker within the first 5 minutes of a game, then you're probably hacking yourself. I've been called a hacker in probably 30% of my games, if not more, this past month. I've maybe played one game versus Nathanias in my life, where he hasn't randomly called me a hacker. Maybe people shouldn't take him seriously. I've even been reported in this thread a few days ago, despite playing while on stream. It doesn't bother me. I understand it. Something is wrong with you if you're playing on NA and you're not paranoid of everyone, the past few months. Here is an example of why I would personally call someone out for going afk in my base. A day ago or so, I played a Zerg who didn't scout my natural with anything, and he just had an overlord afk in my base for 5 or so minutes. Then, he 2 base all-in'd me. He never showed any interest in scouting my natural to see what my defense was. It was probably that Chiraq guy. I lost that game because I didn't say anything. I just kept staring at his overlord and I forgot to make my mother ship core. The moral of the story is, when you play someone who is either hacking or having a bronze league moment, you should inquire about their legitimacy to get a better feel for whether you're playing a legit player or not. Otherwise, you're just going to further mind f yourself and have no clue of how you should approach the game. There is a HUGE difference between reporting someone in a thread or elsewhere and calling them a hacker during the game. You know this, right? In this thread, if I've reported someone who I said hacked and they didn't, they would be the first. I didn't even bother to upload replay vs Cham because the guy had already admitted to hacking in the past and was getting reported every other week prior to me making an accusation (and I knew nothing of this beforehand). Even now, he has never told me he doesn't hack. He plays in a hacking clan now. What do you think his stance is on hackers? If I called someone a hacker, reviewed the replay and then reported on them... the truth of the matter is, they were hacking on a level that was as blatant as nerfy has ever been. That's why I don't even really bother to report hackers: if it's at that point, then everyone already knows, anyways. Normally, all you can say is someone is suspicious or plays weird. Virium, to me, plays like a hacker. Bubbles, I've just recently played for the first times and this is the weirdest player I've played. I don't know if he hacks, he probably doesn't. But, I wouldn't bet on me being able to get away with a proxy pylon in the next 30 games versus him. There's literally only 2 people I can think of even mentioning that aren't "nerfy" level. when you accuse everyone you play because they move an overlord and your zealots die... youre almost as bad as the people actually hacking man. Your response is just...mind blowingly stupid. You went late core, nexus into forge. There was no anti air .. what the hell. Then your 3 zealots killed a ling on the way to my base and only by the time it was very obvious that your 3 zealots did 0 damage, you started calling me a hacker.... You belong on NA with all the hackers imo.
I watched that replay afterwards and looked at your vision. You didn't even look at your overlord until I reminded you of it. You had a bronze league moment. It had 0 to do with the lings. I was confused as to why you would even think that. But, o that's right, you forgot about your overlord.
Maybe you over drone and lose to every all-in because you forget to look? If you think my reasoning is stupid, then, well I have news for you, you might want to look in the mirror. How do you think hackers on NA play. Before that Chiraq guy was streaming himself hacking, I noted him as a hacker because not only was he on a team with 100 hackers but he did the same thing as you.
Obviously, when I watched the replay of you, I realized you had a bronze league moment. Now, after hearing you in this thread, I'm realizing why you had a bronze league moment.
Replay of Ret (I guess) showing off his perfectly normal scouting: http://drop.sc/390867
I'm sorry, Ret, I haven't been playing in Bronze league. 99% of time when players forget they have a unit in my base, it's not because they forgot. It's because they were hacking. I honestly lost a game simply due to not accusing a guy that I figured was hacking, because of this.
If I don't want to get accused of hacking by a player, then it helps if I wouldn't forget to scout on a 4 player map. Wtf do you expect? If you can find a player I reported as hacking in this thread who is legit, let me know Ret. Until then, maybe go work on your scouting.
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Netherlands4511 Posts
On December 29 2014 19:38 playa wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2014 19:23 Liquid`Ret wrote:On December 29 2014 18:38 playa wrote:On December 29 2014 18:10 Liquid`Ret wrote:On December 28 2014 16:04 playa wrote:On December 28 2014 15:05 GGzerG wrote:
It maybe "Uncommon" , but trying to say it is sheer proof because someone uses 1-6 and not 5, is really ridiculous and silly...unless you have replays where the hotkey sequences are all identical throughout games, i don't think this is reliable, and even if there was 5-10 replays where it was almost identical, it is still nearly impossible to prove it is the same person, right? Depends how generic or unique the pattern is. If you were in the BW scene, you would know there was "Romad," I believe, who was considered to be a hotkey savant. He identified every smurf via hotkey analysis. I've never heard of him being wrong. He was absolutely incredible. It's not hard to realize matches. The hard part is remembering all of the different hotkeys and patterns players have. The more hotkeys you're aware of, the more sure you can be about something being unique, though. No one has the same hotkeys I have. And, even if they did, which they don't, what are the odds of the apm/eapm being similar enough? Hotkey analysis is SC 2's version of DNA testing. Given enough knowledge, they're probably close to comparable in effectiveness, too. Then, when you bring common sense into the equation, you can limit the possibilities, ie., How many players are capable of being number 1 on the NA ladder with Toss, be it legit or illegitimately, and what are their hotkeys? If the only person who ends up sharing that pattern is Deezer, then, well, that's who it is. Coincidentally/ironically I came across an old Destiny vod the other day where he was using hotkey analysis to determine whether he was playing vs Deezer or not. I didn't look closely enough to take note of what the hotkeys were back then. I can't PM people since I told manifesto that I didn't have anything to say to him... but someone told me via PM that they would share more details about this if I was interested. Maybe you're more interested than I am and haven't told manifesto you didn't have anything to say to him. If I'm interested about anyone, it's Cham because this guy is doing better on ladders than when he was blatantly cheating. And, recently, he gave an interview where he said he would love to stream and really wants to, but he simply doesn't have enough time "or something like that." It's inexcusable that this guy is allowed to play in tournaments without streaming his games. This guy is playing all of his games in the hacker clan, under magical. Top 6 now on the ladder. I've never heard him say he doesn't hack, yet is anyone going to even review his online tournament games in the future? It's such a bad precedent when SC 2 can't even handle the hackers that are known, let alone ones that are unknown. are you to the gm protoss on na? if so, it's really hard for anyone to take you seriously when you randomly accuse legit players after 5 minutes of gameplay :S Are you the guy I just played or something? If so, you might have been too busy making drones to realize normal players don't go afk with their overlords in the middle of someone's base. If you play on NA and you haven't called someone a hacker within the first 5 minutes of a game, then you're probably hacking yourself. I've been called a hacker in probably 30% of my games, if not more, this past month. I've maybe played one game versus Nathanias in my life, where he hasn't randomly called me a hacker. Maybe people shouldn't take him seriously. I've even been reported in this thread a few days ago, despite playing while on stream. It doesn't bother me. I understand it. Something is wrong with you if you're playing on NA and you're not paranoid of everyone, the past few months. Here is an example of why I would personally call someone out for going afk in my base. A day ago or so, I played a Zerg who didn't scout my natural with anything, and he just had an overlord afk in my base for 5 or so minutes. Then, he 2 base all-in'd me. He never showed any interest in scouting my natural to see what my defense was. It was probably that Chiraq guy. I lost that game because I didn't say anything. I just kept staring at his overlord and I forgot to make my mother ship core. The moral of the story is, when you play someone who is either hacking or having a bronze league moment, you should inquire about their legitimacy to get a better feel for whether you're playing a legit player or not. Otherwise, you're just going to further mind f yourself and have no clue of how you should approach the game. There is a HUGE difference between reporting someone in a thread or elsewhere and calling them a hacker during the game. You know this, right? In this thread, if I've reported someone who I said hacked and they didn't, they would be the first. I didn't even bother to upload replay vs Cham because the guy had already admitted to hacking in the past and was getting reported every other week prior to me making an accusation (and I knew nothing of this beforehand). Even now, he has never told me he doesn't hack. He plays in a hacking clan now. What do you think his stance is on hackers? If I called someone a hacker, reviewed the replay and then reported on them... the truth of the matter is, they were hacking on a level that was as blatant as nerfy has ever been. That's why I don't even really bother to report hackers: if it's at that point, then everyone already knows, anyways. Normally, all you can say is someone is suspicious or plays weird. Virium, to me, plays like a hacker. Bubbles, I've just recently played for the first times and this is the weirdest player I've played. I don't know if he hacks, he probably doesn't. But, I wouldn't bet on me being able to get away with a proxy pylon in the next 30 games versus him. There's literally only 2 people I can think of even mentioning that aren't "nerfy" level. when you accuse everyone you play because they move an overlord and your zealots die... youre almost as bad as the people actually hacking man. Your response is just...mind blowingly stupid. You went late core, nexus into forge. There was no anti air .. what the hell. Then your 3 zealots killed a ling on the way to my base and only by the time it was very obvious that your 3 zealots did 0 damage, you started calling me a hacker.... You belong on NA with all the hackers imo. I watched that replay afterwards and looked at your vision. You didn't even look at your overlord until I reminded you of it. You had a bronze league moment. It had 0 to do with the lings. I was confused as to why you would even think that. But, o that's right, you forgot about your overlord. Maybe you over drone and lose to every all-in because you forget to look? If you think my reasoning is stupid, then, well I have news for you, you might want to look in the mirror. How do you think hackers on NA play. Before that Chiraq guy was streaming himself hacking, I noted him as a hacker because not only was he on a team with 100 hackers but he did the same thing as you. Obviously, when I watched the replay of you, I realized you had a bronze league moment. Now, after hearing you in this thread, I'm realizing why you had a bronze league moment. Replay of Ret (I guess) showing off his perfectly normal scouting: http://drop.sc/390867I'm sorry, Ret, I haven't been playing in Bronze league. 99% of time when players forget they have a unit in my base, it's not because they forgot. It's because they were hacking. I honestly lost a game simply due to not accusing a guy that I figured was hacking, because of this. If I don't want to get accused of hacking by a player, then it helps if I wouldn't forget to scout on a 4 player map. Wtf do you expect? If you can find a player I reported as hacking in this thread who is legit, let me know Ret. Until then, maybe go work on your scouting.
This is the 2nd time you are trying to insult me with your overdone thing, great job man. Keep accusing everyone you play 
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On December 29 2014 19:47 Liquid`Ret wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2014 19:38 playa wrote:On December 29 2014 19:23 Liquid`Ret wrote:On December 29 2014 18:38 playa wrote:On December 29 2014 18:10 Liquid`Ret wrote:On December 28 2014 16:04 playa wrote:On December 28 2014 15:05 GGzerG wrote:
It maybe "Uncommon" , but trying to say it is sheer proof because someone uses 1-6 and not 5, is really ridiculous and silly...unless you have replays where the hotkey sequences are all identical throughout games, i don't think this is reliable, and even if there was 5-10 replays where it was almost identical, it is still nearly impossible to prove it is the same person, right? Depends how generic or unique the pattern is. If you were in the BW scene, you would know there was "Romad," I believe, who was considered to be a hotkey savant. He identified every smurf via hotkey analysis. I've never heard of him being wrong. He was absolutely incredible. It's not hard to realize matches. The hard part is remembering all of the different hotkeys and patterns players have. The more hotkeys you're aware of, the more sure you can be about something being unique, though. No one has the same hotkeys I have. And, even if they did, which they don't, what are the odds of the apm/eapm being similar enough? Hotkey analysis is SC 2's version of DNA testing. Given enough knowledge, they're probably close to comparable in effectiveness, too. Then, when you bring common sense into the equation, you can limit the possibilities, ie., How many players are capable of being number 1 on the NA ladder with Toss, be it legit or illegitimately, and what are their hotkeys? If the only person who ends up sharing that pattern is Deezer, then, well, that's who it is. Coincidentally/ironically I came across an old Destiny vod the other day where he was using hotkey analysis to determine whether he was playing vs Deezer or not. I didn't look closely enough to take note of what the hotkeys were back then. I can't PM people since I told manifesto that I didn't have anything to say to him... but someone told me via PM that they would share more details about this if I was interested. Maybe you're more interested than I am and haven't told manifesto you didn't have anything to say to him. If I'm interested about anyone, it's Cham because this guy is doing better on ladders than when he was blatantly cheating. And, recently, he gave an interview where he said he would love to stream and really wants to, but he simply doesn't have enough time "or something like that." It's inexcusable that this guy is allowed to play in tournaments without streaming his games. This guy is playing all of his games in the hacker clan, under magical. Top 6 now on the ladder. I've never heard him say he doesn't hack, yet is anyone going to even review his online tournament games in the future? It's such a bad precedent when SC 2 can't even handle the hackers that are known, let alone ones that are unknown. are you to the gm protoss on na? if so, it's really hard for anyone to take you seriously when you randomly accuse legit players after 5 minutes of gameplay :S Are you the guy I just played or something? If so, you might have been too busy making drones to realize normal players don't go afk with their overlords in the middle of someone's base. If you play on NA and you haven't called someone a hacker within the first 5 minutes of a game, then you're probably hacking yourself. I've been called a hacker in probably 30% of my games, if not more, this past month. I've maybe played one game versus Nathanias in my life, where he hasn't randomly called me a hacker. Maybe people shouldn't take him seriously. I've even been reported in this thread a few days ago, despite playing while on stream. It doesn't bother me. I understand it. Something is wrong with you if you're playing on NA and you're not paranoid of everyone, the past few months. Here is an example of why I would personally call someone out for going afk in my base. A day ago or so, I played a Zerg who didn't scout my natural with anything, and he just had an overlord afk in my base for 5 or so minutes. Then, he 2 base all-in'd me. He never showed any interest in scouting my natural to see what my defense was. It was probably that Chiraq guy. I lost that game because I didn't say anything. I just kept staring at his overlord and I forgot to make my mother ship core. The moral of the story is, when you play someone who is either hacking or having a bronze league moment, you should inquire about their legitimacy to get a better feel for whether you're playing a legit player or not. Otherwise, you're just going to further mind f yourself and have no clue of how you should approach the game. There is a HUGE difference between reporting someone in a thread or elsewhere and calling them a hacker during the game. You know this, right? In this thread, if I've reported someone who I said hacked and they didn't, they would be the first. I didn't even bother to upload replay vs Cham because the guy had already admitted to hacking in the past and was getting reported every other week prior to me making an accusation (and I knew nothing of this beforehand). Even now, he has never told me he doesn't hack. He plays in a hacking clan now. What do you think his stance is on hackers? If I called someone a hacker, reviewed the replay and then reported on them... the truth of the matter is, they were hacking on a level that was as blatant as nerfy has ever been. That's why I don't even really bother to report hackers: if it's at that point, then everyone already knows, anyways. Normally, all you can say is someone is suspicious or plays weird. Virium, to me, plays like a hacker. Bubbles, I've just recently played for the first times and this is the weirdest player I've played. I don't know if he hacks, he probably doesn't. But, I wouldn't bet on me being able to get away with a proxy pylon in the next 30 games versus him. There's literally only 2 people I can think of even mentioning that aren't "nerfy" level. when you accuse everyone you play because they move an overlord and your zealots die... youre almost as bad as the people actually hacking man. Your response is just...mind blowingly stupid. You went late core, nexus into forge. There was no anti air .. what the hell. Then your 3 zealots killed a ling on the way to my base and only by the time it was very obvious that your 3 zealots did 0 damage, you started calling me a hacker.... You belong on NA with all the hackers imo. I watched that replay afterwards and looked at your vision. You didn't even look at your overlord until I reminded you of it. You had a bronze league moment. It had 0 to do with the lings. I was confused as to why you would even think that. But, o that's right, you forgot about your overlord. Maybe you over drone and lose to every all-in because you forget to look? If you think my reasoning is stupid, then, well I have news for you, you might want to look in the mirror. How do you think hackers on NA play. Before that Chiraq guy was streaming himself hacking, I noted him as a hacker because not only was he on a team with 100 hackers but he did the same thing as you. Obviously, when I watched the replay of you, I realized you had a bronze league moment. Now, after hearing you in this thread, I'm realizing why you had a bronze league moment. Replay of Ret (I guess) showing off his perfectly normal scouting: http://drop.sc/390867I'm sorry, Ret, I haven't been playing in Bronze league. 99% of time when players forget they have a unit in my base, it's not because they forgot. It's because they were hacking. I honestly lost a game simply due to not accusing a guy that I figured was hacking, because of this. If I don't want to get accused of hacking by a player, then it helps if I wouldn't forget to scout on a 4 player map. Wtf do you expect? If you can find a player I reported as hacking in this thread who is legit, let me know Ret. Until then, maybe go work on your scouting. This is the 2nd time you are trying to insult me with your overdone thing, great job man. Keep accusing everyone you play
Listen man, I sometimes go idle with my probe in P vs P. If anyone ever finds me not constantly looking at my probe, I hope to god they call me out in the forum to laugh at me and call me a hacker, because that's flat out embarrassing and inexcusable to me.
I didn't realize you were everyone I played. You have more examples? I hear Puck calls everyone a hacker. Maybe his opinion after watching replays shouldn't be valued. I've been called a hacker at a bare minimum of 30% of my recent games. I was even called a hacker by a blatant hacker...
Nothing I said was out of line to you. Did I say anything when you attacked me the second I went to morph my dts into archons? You're acting like I've went out on a limb with the people I have reported... If calling someone a hacker, who has admitted to hacking, who is now in a hacking clan, is a little too much for you, then I have to question what skill does Zerg take. Is it just making drones and swarm hosts?
You were one of the best non Korean BW players. You're a macro beast. I have no history with you, that I know of. I have nothing against you. The only thing I wish is when I saw you at a tournament, you would be more prepared for all-ins. Because, everyone knows to all-in you until you show you're willing to not over drone.
You just come off as bitter about the game to me. I don't think you hack. Yet, I obviously can't regret making that comment about your overlord. You haven't played enough on NA if you think that was uncalled for. Being called a hacker on NA is standard atm. It doesn't matter who you are or how legit you are, you should expect it, even when you can't tell why they would think that. But, until someone has reviewed a replay and then reported you on a thread like this, what difference does it make? It's almost an admission of being wrong if you weren't reported, thus they aren't as haste as you believe, anyways.
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On December 29 2014 20:13 playa wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2014 19:47 Liquid`Ret wrote:On December 29 2014 19:38 playa wrote:On December 29 2014 19:23 Liquid`Ret wrote:On December 29 2014 18:38 playa wrote:On December 29 2014 18:10 Liquid`Ret wrote:On December 28 2014 16:04 playa wrote:On December 28 2014 15:05 GGzerG wrote:
It maybe "Uncommon" , but trying to say it is sheer proof because someone uses 1-6 and not 5, is really ridiculous and silly...unless you have replays where the hotkey sequences are all identical throughout games, i don't think this is reliable, and even if there was 5-10 replays where it was almost identical, it is still nearly impossible to prove it is the same person, right? Depends how generic or unique the pattern is. If you were in the BW scene, you would know there was "Romad," I believe, who was considered to be a hotkey savant. He identified every smurf via hotkey analysis. I've never heard of him being wrong. He was absolutely incredible. It's not hard to realize matches. The hard part is remembering all of the different hotkeys and patterns players have. The more hotkeys you're aware of, the more sure you can be about something being unique, though. No one has the same hotkeys I have. And, even if they did, which they don't, what are the odds of the apm/eapm being similar enough? Hotkey analysis is SC 2's version of DNA testing. Given enough knowledge, they're probably close to comparable in effectiveness, too. Then, when you bring common sense into the equation, you can limit the possibilities, ie., How many players are capable of being number 1 on the NA ladder with Toss, be it legit or illegitimately, and what are their hotkeys? If the only person who ends up sharing that pattern is Deezer, then, well, that's who it is. Coincidentally/ironically I came across an old Destiny vod the other day where he was using hotkey analysis to determine whether he was playing vs Deezer or not. I didn't look closely enough to take note of what the hotkeys were back then. I can't PM people since I told manifesto that I didn't have anything to say to him... but someone told me via PM that they would share more details about this if I was interested. Maybe you're more interested than I am and haven't told manifesto you didn't have anything to say to him. If I'm interested about anyone, it's Cham because this guy is doing better on ladders than when he was blatantly cheating. And, recently, he gave an interview where he said he would love to stream and really wants to, but he simply doesn't have enough time "or something like that." It's inexcusable that this guy is allowed to play in tournaments without streaming his games. This guy is playing all of his games in the hacker clan, under magical. Top 6 now on the ladder. I've never heard him say he doesn't hack, yet is anyone going to even review his online tournament games in the future? It's such a bad precedent when SC 2 can't even handle the hackers that are known, let alone ones that are unknown. are you to the gm protoss on na? if so, it's really hard for anyone to take you seriously when you randomly accuse legit players after 5 minutes of gameplay :S Are you the guy I just played or something? If so, you might have been too busy making drones to realize normal players don't go afk with their overlords in the middle of someone's base. If you play on NA and you haven't called someone a hacker within the first 5 minutes of a game, then you're probably hacking yourself. I've been called a hacker in probably 30% of my games, if not more, this past month. I've maybe played one game versus Nathanias in my life, where he hasn't randomly called me a hacker. Maybe people shouldn't take him seriously. I've even been reported in this thread a few days ago, despite playing while on stream. It doesn't bother me. I understand it. Something is wrong with you if you're playing on NA and you're not paranoid of everyone, the past few months. Here is an example of why I would personally call someone out for going afk in my base. A day ago or so, I played a Zerg who didn't scout my natural with anything, and he just had an overlord afk in my base for 5 or so minutes. Then, he 2 base all-in'd me. He never showed any interest in scouting my natural to see what my defense was. It was probably that Chiraq guy. I lost that game because I didn't say anything. I just kept staring at his overlord and I forgot to make my mother ship core. The moral of the story is, when you play someone who is either hacking or having a bronze league moment, you should inquire about their legitimacy to get a better feel for whether you're playing a legit player or not. Otherwise, you're just going to further mind f yourself and have no clue of how you should approach the game. There is a HUGE difference between reporting someone in a thread or elsewhere and calling them a hacker during the game. You know this, right? In this thread, if I've reported someone who I said hacked and they didn't, they would be the first. I didn't even bother to upload replay vs Cham because the guy had already admitted to hacking in the past and was getting reported every other week prior to me making an accusation (and I knew nothing of this beforehand). Even now, he has never told me he doesn't hack. He plays in a hacking clan now. What do you think his stance is on hackers? If I called someone a hacker, reviewed the replay and then reported on them... the truth of the matter is, they were hacking on a level that was as blatant as nerfy has ever been. That's why I don't even really bother to report hackers: if it's at that point, then everyone already knows, anyways. Normally, all you can say is someone is suspicious or plays weird. Virium, to me, plays like a hacker. Bubbles, I've just recently played for the first times and this is the weirdest player I've played. I don't know if he hacks, he probably doesn't. But, I wouldn't bet on me being able to get away with a proxy pylon in the next 30 games versus him. There's literally only 2 people I can think of even mentioning that aren't "nerfy" level. when you accuse everyone you play because they move an overlord and your zealots die... youre almost as bad as the people actually hacking man. Your response is just...mind blowingly stupid. You went late core, nexus into forge. There was no anti air .. what the hell. Then your 3 zealots killed a ling on the way to my base and only by the time it was very obvious that your 3 zealots did 0 damage, you started calling me a hacker.... You belong on NA with all the hackers imo. I watched that replay afterwards and looked at your vision. You didn't even look at your overlord until I reminded you of it. You had a bronze league moment. It had 0 to do with the lings. I was confused as to why you would even think that. But, o that's right, you forgot about your overlord. Maybe you over drone and lose to every all-in because you forget to look? If you think my reasoning is stupid, then, well I have news for you, you might want to look in the mirror. How do you think hackers on NA play. Before that Chiraq guy was streaming himself hacking, I noted him as a hacker because not only was he on a team with 100 hackers but he did the same thing as you. Obviously, when I watched the replay of you, I realized you had a bronze league moment. Now, after hearing you in this thread, I'm realizing why you had a bronze league moment. Replay of Ret (I guess) showing off his perfectly normal scouting: http://drop.sc/390867I'm sorry, Ret, I haven't been playing in Bronze league. 99% of time when players forget they have a unit in my base, it's not because they forgot. It's because they were hacking. I honestly lost a game simply due to not accusing a guy that I figured was hacking, because of this. If I don't want to get accused of hacking by a player, then it helps if I wouldn't forget to scout on a 4 player map. Wtf do you expect? If you can find a player I reported as hacking in this thread who is legit, let me know Ret. Until then, maybe go work on your scouting. This is the 2nd time you are trying to insult me with your overdone thing, great job man. Keep accusing everyone you play Listen man, I sometimes go idle with my probe in P vs P. If anyone ever finds me not constantly looking at my probe, I hope to god they call me out in the forum to laugh at me and call me a hacker, because that's flat out embarrassing and inexcusable to me. I didn't realize you were everyone I played. You have more examples? I hear Puck calls everyone a hacker. Maybe his opinion after watching replays shouldn't be valued. I've been called a hacker at a bare minimum of 30% of my recent games. I was even called a hacker by a blatant hacker... Nothing I said was out of line to you. Did I say anything when you attacked me the second I went to morph my dts into archons? You're acting like I've went out on a limb with the people I have reported... If calling someone a hacker, who has admitted to hacking, who is now in a hacking clan, is a little too much for you, then I have to question what skill does Zerg take. Is it just making drones and swarm hosts? You were one of the best non Korean BW players. You're a macro beast. I have no history with you, that I know of. I have nothing against you. The only thing I wish is when I saw you at a tournament, you would be more prepared for all-ins. Because, everyone knows to all-in you until you show you're willing to not over drone. You just come off as bitter about the game to me. I don't think you hack. Yet, I obviously can't regret making that comment about your overlord. You haven't played enough on NA if you think that was uncalled for. Being called a hacker on NA is standard atm. It doesn't matter who you are or how legit you are, you should expect it, even when you can't tell why they would think that. But, until someone has reviewed a replay and then reported you on a thread like this, what difference does it make? It's almost an admission of being wrong if you weren't reported, thus they aren't as haste as you believe, anyways.
I just lol'd while reading all this. "Maybe you had a bronze league moment" :D Ret, when you're gonna get out of bronze mate?  These people... just sad. Buy this poor NA protoss a medal as a late Christmas present or something. Even though I rarely read TeamLiquid now, but when I do it's totally worth it!
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On December 30 2014 00:34 arew wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2014 20:13 playa wrote:On December 29 2014 19:47 Liquid`Ret wrote:On December 29 2014 19:38 playa wrote:On December 29 2014 19:23 Liquid`Ret wrote:On December 29 2014 18:38 playa wrote:On December 29 2014 18:10 Liquid`Ret wrote:On December 28 2014 16:04 playa wrote:On December 28 2014 15:05 GGzerG wrote:
It maybe "Uncommon" , but trying to say it is sheer proof because someone uses 1-6 and not 5, is really ridiculous and silly...unless you have replays where the hotkey sequences are all identical throughout games, i don't think this is reliable, and even if there was 5-10 replays where it was almost identical, it is still nearly impossible to prove it is the same person, right? Depends how generic or unique the pattern is. If you were in the BW scene, you would know there was "Romad," I believe, who was considered to be a hotkey savant. He identified every smurf via hotkey analysis. I've never heard of him being wrong. He was absolutely incredible. It's not hard to realize matches. The hard part is remembering all of the different hotkeys and patterns players have. The more hotkeys you're aware of, the more sure you can be about something being unique, though. No one has the same hotkeys I have. And, even if they did, which they don't, what are the odds of the apm/eapm being similar enough? Hotkey analysis is SC 2's version of DNA testing. Given enough knowledge, they're probably close to comparable in effectiveness, too. Then, when you bring common sense into the equation, you can limit the possibilities, ie., How many players are capable of being number 1 on the NA ladder with Toss, be it legit or illegitimately, and what are their hotkeys? If the only person who ends up sharing that pattern is Deezer, then, well, that's who it is. Coincidentally/ironically I came across an old Destiny vod the other day where he was using hotkey analysis to determine whether he was playing vs Deezer or not. I didn't look closely enough to take note of what the hotkeys were back then. I can't PM people since I told manifesto that I didn't have anything to say to him... but someone told me via PM that they would share more details about this if I was interested. Maybe you're more interested than I am and haven't told manifesto you didn't have anything to say to him. If I'm interested about anyone, it's Cham because this guy is doing better on ladders than when he was blatantly cheating. And, recently, he gave an interview where he said he would love to stream and really wants to, but he simply doesn't have enough time "or something like that." It's inexcusable that this guy is allowed to play in tournaments without streaming his games. This guy is playing all of his games in the hacker clan, under magical. Top 6 now on the ladder. I've never heard him say he doesn't hack, yet is anyone going to even review his online tournament games in the future? It's such a bad precedent when SC 2 can't even handle the hackers that are known, let alone ones that are unknown. are you to the gm protoss on na? if so, it's really hard for anyone to take you seriously when you randomly accuse legit players after 5 minutes of gameplay :S Are you the guy I just played or something? If so, you might have been too busy making drones to realize normal players don't go afk with their overlords in the middle of someone's base. If you play on NA and you haven't called someone a hacker within the first 5 minutes of a game, then you're probably hacking yourself. I've been called a hacker in probably 30% of my games, if not more, this past month. I've maybe played one game versus Nathanias in my life, where he hasn't randomly called me a hacker. Maybe people shouldn't take him seriously. I've even been reported in this thread a few days ago, despite playing while on stream. It doesn't bother me. I understand it. Something is wrong with you if you're playing on NA and you're not paranoid of everyone, the past few months. Here is an example of why I would personally call someone out for going afk in my base. A day ago or so, I played a Zerg who didn't scout my natural with anything, and he just had an overlord afk in my base for 5 or so minutes. Then, he 2 base all-in'd me. He never showed any interest in scouting my natural to see what my defense was. It was probably that Chiraq guy. I lost that game because I didn't say anything. I just kept staring at his overlord and I forgot to make my mother ship core. The moral of the story is, when you play someone who is either hacking or having a bronze league moment, you should inquire about their legitimacy to get a better feel for whether you're playing a legit player or not. Otherwise, you're just going to further mind f yourself and have no clue of how you should approach the game. There is a HUGE difference between reporting someone in a thread or elsewhere and calling them a hacker during the game. You know this, right? In this thread, if I've reported someone who I said hacked and they didn't, they would be the first. I didn't even bother to upload replay vs Cham because the guy had already admitted to hacking in the past and was getting reported every other week prior to me making an accusation (and I knew nothing of this beforehand). Even now, he has never told me he doesn't hack. He plays in a hacking clan now. What do you think his stance is on hackers? If I called someone a hacker, reviewed the replay and then reported on them... the truth of the matter is, they were hacking on a level that was as blatant as nerfy has ever been. That's why I don't even really bother to report hackers: if it's at that point, then everyone already knows, anyways. Normally, all you can say is someone is suspicious or plays weird. Virium, to me, plays like a hacker. Bubbles, I've just recently played for the first times and this is the weirdest player I've played. I don't know if he hacks, he probably doesn't. But, I wouldn't bet on me being able to get away with a proxy pylon in the next 30 games versus him. There's literally only 2 people I can think of even mentioning that aren't "nerfy" level. when you accuse everyone you play because they move an overlord and your zealots die... youre almost as bad as the people actually hacking man. Your response is just...mind blowingly stupid. You went late core, nexus into forge. There was no anti air .. what the hell. Then your 3 zealots killed a ling on the way to my base and only by the time it was very obvious that your 3 zealots did 0 damage, you started calling me a hacker.... You belong on NA with all the hackers imo. I watched that replay afterwards and looked at your vision. You didn't even look at your overlord until I reminded you of it. You had a bronze league moment. It had 0 to do with the lings. I was confused as to why you would even think that. But, o that's right, you forgot about your overlord. Maybe you over drone and lose to every all-in because you forget to look? If you think my reasoning is stupid, then, well I have news for you, you might want to look in the mirror. How do you think hackers on NA play. Before that Chiraq guy was streaming himself hacking, I noted him as a hacker because not only was he on a team with 100 hackers but he did the same thing as you. Obviously, when I watched the replay of you, I realized you had a bronze league moment. Now, after hearing you in this thread, I'm realizing why you had a bronze league moment. Replay of Ret (I guess) showing off his perfectly normal scouting: http://drop.sc/390867I'm sorry, Ret, I haven't been playing in Bronze league. 99% of time when players forget they have a unit in my base, it's not because they forgot. It's because they were hacking. I honestly lost a game simply due to not accusing a guy that I figured was hacking, because of this. If I don't want to get accused of hacking by a player, then it helps if I wouldn't forget to scout on a 4 player map. Wtf do you expect? If you can find a player I reported as hacking in this thread who is legit, let me know Ret. Until then, maybe go work on your scouting. This is the 2nd time you are trying to insult me with your overdone thing, great job man. Keep accusing everyone you play Listen man, I sometimes go idle with my probe in P vs P. If anyone ever finds me not constantly looking at my probe, I hope to god they call me out in the forum to laugh at me and call me a hacker, because that's flat out embarrassing and inexcusable to me. I didn't realize you were everyone I played. You have more examples? I hear Puck calls everyone a hacker. Maybe his opinion after watching replays shouldn't be valued. I've been called a hacker at a bare minimum of 30% of my recent games. I was even called a hacker by a blatant hacker... Nothing I said was out of line to you. Did I say anything when you attacked me the second I went to morph my dts into archons? You're acting like I've went out on a limb with the people I have reported... If calling someone a hacker, who has admitted to hacking, who is now in a hacking clan, is a little too much for you, then I have to question what skill does Zerg take. Is it just making drones and swarm hosts? You were one of the best non Korean BW players. You're a macro beast. I have no history with you, that I know of. I have nothing against you. The only thing I wish is when I saw you at a tournament, you would be more prepared for all-ins. Because, everyone knows to all-in you until you show you're willing to not over drone. You just come off as bitter about the game to me. I don't think you hack. Yet, I obviously can't regret making that comment about your overlord. You haven't played enough on NA if you think that was uncalled for. Being called a hacker on NA is standard atm. It doesn't matter who you are or how legit you are, you should expect it, even when you can't tell why they would think that. But, until someone has reviewed a replay and then reported you on a thread like this, what difference does it make? It's almost an admission of being wrong if you weren't reported, thus they aren't as haste as you believe, anyways. I just lol'd while reading all this. "Maybe you had a bronze league moment" :D Ret, when you're gonna get out of bronze mate? These people... just sad. Buy this poor NA protoss a medal as a late Christmas present or something. Even though I rarely read TeamLiquid now, but when I do it's totally worth it!
Yeah, this whining belongs in the awesome/confusing BM thread
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On December 30 2014 00:57 NeThZOR wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2014 00:34 arew wrote:On December 29 2014 20:13 playa wrote:On December 29 2014 19:47 Liquid`Ret wrote:On December 29 2014 19:38 playa wrote:On December 29 2014 19:23 Liquid`Ret wrote:On December 29 2014 18:38 playa wrote:On December 29 2014 18:10 Liquid`Ret wrote:On December 28 2014 16:04 playa wrote:On December 28 2014 15:05 GGzerG wrote:
It maybe "Uncommon" , but trying to say it is sheer proof because someone uses 1-6 and not 5, is really ridiculous and silly...unless you have replays where the hotkey sequences are all identical throughout games, i don't think this is reliable, and even if there was 5-10 replays where it was almost identical, it is still nearly impossible to prove it is the same person, right? Depends how generic or unique the pattern is. If you were in the BW scene, you would know there was "Romad," I believe, who was considered to be a hotkey savant. He identified every smurf via hotkey analysis. I've never heard of him being wrong. He was absolutely incredible. It's not hard to realize matches. The hard part is remembering all of the different hotkeys and patterns players have. The more hotkeys you're aware of, the more sure you can be about something being unique, though. No one has the same hotkeys I have. And, even if they did, which they don't, what are the odds of the apm/eapm being similar enough? Hotkey analysis is SC 2's version of DNA testing. Given enough knowledge, they're probably close to comparable in effectiveness, too. Then, when you bring common sense into the equation, you can limit the possibilities, ie., How many players are capable of being number 1 on the NA ladder with Toss, be it legit or illegitimately, and what are their hotkeys? If the only person who ends up sharing that pattern is Deezer, then, well, that's who it is. Coincidentally/ironically I came across an old Destiny vod the other day where he was using hotkey analysis to determine whether he was playing vs Deezer or not. I didn't look closely enough to take note of what the hotkeys were back then. I can't PM people since I told manifesto that I didn't have anything to say to him... but someone told me via PM that they would share more details about this if I was interested. Maybe you're more interested than I am and haven't told manifesto you didn't have anything to say to him. If I'm interested about anyone, it's Cham because this guy is doing better on ladders than when he was blatantly cheating. And, recently, he gave an interview where he said he would love to stream and really wants to, but he simply doesn't have enough time "or something like that." It's inexcusable that this guy is allowed to play in tournaments without streaming his games. This guy is playing all of his games in the hacker clan, under magical. Top 6 now on the ladder. I've never heard him say he doesn't hack, yet is anyone going to even review his online tournament games in the future? It's such a bad precedent when SC 2 can't even handle the hackers that are known, let alone ones that are unknown. are you to the gm protoss on na? if so, it's really hard for anyone to take you seriously when you randomly accuse legit players after 5 minutes of gameplay :S Are you the guy I just played or something? If so, you might have been too busy making drones to realize normal players don't go afk with their overlords in the middle of someone's base. If you play on NA and you haven't called someone a hacker within the first 5 minutes of a game, then you're probably hacking yourself. I've been called a hacker in probably 30% of my games, if not more, this past month. I've maybe played one game versus Nathanias in my life, where he hasn't randomly called me a hacker. Maybe people shouldn't take him seriously. I've even been reported in this thread a few days ago, despite playing while on stream. It doesn't bother me. I understand it. Something is wrong with you if you're playing on NA and you're not paranoid of everyone, the past few months. Here is an example of why I would personally call someone out for going afk in my base. A day ago or so, I played a Zerg who didn't scout my natural with anything, and he just had an overlord afk in my base for 5 or so minutes. Then, he 2 base all-in'd me. He never showed any interest in scouting my natural to see what my defense was. It was probably that Chiraq guy. I lost that game because I didn't say anything. I just kept staring at his overlord and I forgot to make my mother ship core. The moral of the story is, when you play someone who is either hacking or having a bronze league moment, you should inquire about their legitimacy to get a better feel for whether you're playing a legit player or not. Otherwise, you're just going to further mind f yourself and have no clue of how you should approach the game. There is a HUGE difference between reporting someone in a thread or elsewhere and calling them a hacker during the game. You know this, right? In this thread, if I've reported someone who I said hacked and they didn't, they would be the first. I didn't even bother to upload replay vs Cham because the guy had already admitted to hacking in the past and was getting reported every other week prior to me making an accusation (and I knew nothing of this beforehand). Even now, he has never told me he doesn't hack. He plays in a hacking clan now. What do you think his stance is on hackers? If I called someone a hacker, reviewed the replay and then reported on them... the truth of the matter is, they were hacking on a level that was as blatant as nerfy has ever been. That's why I don't even really bother to report hackers: if it's at that point, then everyone already knows, anyways. Normally, all you can say is someone is suspicious or plays weird. Virium, to me, plays like a hacker. Bubbles, I've just recently played for the first times and this is the weirdest player I've played. I don't know if he hacks, he probably doesn't. But, I wouldn't bet on me being able to get away with a proxy pylon in the next 30 games versus him. There's literally only 2 people I can think of even mentioning that aren't "nerfy" level. when you accuse everyone you play because they move an overlord and your zealots die... youre almost as bad as the people actually hacking man. Your response is just...mind blowingly stupid. You went late core, nexus into forge. There was no anti air .. what the hell. Then your 3 zealots killed a ling on the way to my base and only by the time it was very obvious that your 3 zealots did 0 damage, you started calling me a hacker.... You belong on NA with all the hackers imo. I watched that replay afterwards and looked at your vision. You didn't even look at your overlord until I reminded you of it. You had a bronze league moment. It had 0 to do with the lings. I was confused as to why you would even think that. But, o that's right, you forgot about your overlord. Maybe you over drone and lose to every all-in because you forget to look? If you think my reasoning is stupid, then, well I have news for you, you might want to look in the mirror. How do you think hackers on NA play. Before that Chiraq guy was streaming himself hacking, I noted him as a hacker because not only was he on a team with 100 hackers but he did the same thing as you. Obviously, when I watched the replay of you, I realized you had a bronze league moment. Now, after hearing you in this thread, I'm realizing why you had a bronze league moment. Replay of Ret (I guess) showing off his perfectly normal scouting: http://drop.sc/390867I'm sorry, Ret, I haven't been playing in Bronze league. 99% of time when players forget they have a unit in my base, it's not because they forgot. It's because they were hacking. I honestly lost a game simply due to not accusing a guy that I figured was hacking, because of this. If I don't want to get accused of hacking by a player, then it helps if I wouldn't forget to scout on a 4 player map. Wtf do you expect? If you can find a player I reported as hacking in this thread who is legit, let me know Ret. Until then, maybe go work on your scouting. This is the 2nd time you are trying to insult me with your overdone thing, great job man. Keep accusing everyone you play Listen man, I sometimes go idle with my probe in P vs P. If anyone ever finds me not constantly looking at my probe, I hope to god they call me out in the forum to laugh at me and call me a hacker, because that's flat out embarrassing and inexcusable to me. I didn't realize you were everyone I played. You have more examples? I hear Puck calls everyone a hacker. Maybe his opinion after watching replays shouldn't be valued. I've been called a hacker at a bare minimum of 30% of my recent games. I was even called a hacker by a blatant hacker... Nothing I said was out of line to you. Did I say anything when you attacked me the second I went to morph my dts into archons? You're acting like I've went out on a limb with the people I have reported... If calling someone a hacker, who has admitted to hacking, who is now in a hacking clan, is a little too much for you, then I have to question what skill does Zerg take. Is it just making drones and swarm hosts? You were one of the best non Korean BW players. You're a macro beast. I have no history with you, that I know of. I have nothing against you. The only thing I wish is when I saw you at a tournament, you would be more prepared for all-ins. Because, everyone knows to all-in you until you show you're willing to not over drone. You just come off as bitter about the game to me. I don't think you hack. Yet, I obviously can't regret making that comment about your overlord. You haven't played enough on NA if you think that was uncalled for. Being called a hacker on NA is standard atm. It doesn't matter who you are or how legit you are, you should expect it, even when you can't tell why they would think that. But, until someone has reviewed a replay and then reported you on a thread like this, what difference does it make? It's almost an admission of being wrong if you weren't reported, thus they aren't as haste as you believe, anyways. I just lol'd while reading all this. "Maybe you had a bronze league moment" :D Ret, when you're gonna get out of bronze mate? These people... just sad. Buy this poor NA protoss a medal as a late Christmas present or something. Even though I rarely read TeamLiquid now, but when I do it's totally worth it! Yeah, this whining belongs in the awesome/confusing BM thread actually he's just straight up player bashing, he's just doing it very passive-aggressively with fake politeness to cover it. it's rude as shit and belongs in no thread, and it's especially funny that the player is liquid ret on teamliquid.net
there's literally no reason to throw in jabs about ret's reputation for overdroning other than to be a dick lol, it certainly has nothing to do with maphacking that ret has dropped out of tournaments to allin builds...
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On December 30 2014 00:57 NeThZOR wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2014 00:34 arew wrote:On December 29 2014 20:13 playa wrote:On December 29 2014 19:47 Liquid`Ret wrote:On December 29 2014 19:38 playa wrote:On December 29 2014 19:23 Liquid`Ret wrote:On December 29 2014 18:38 playa wrote:On December 29 2014 18:10 Liquid`Ret wrote:On December 28 2014 16:04 playa wrote:On December 28 2014 15:05 GGzerG wrote:
It maybe "Uncommon" , but trying to say it is sheer proof because someone uses 1-6 and not 5, is really ridiculous and silly...unless you have replays where the hotkey sequences are all identical throughout games, i don't think this is reliable, and even if there was 5-10 replays where it was almost identical, it is still nearly impossible to prove it is the same person, right? Depends how generic or unique the pattern is. If you were in the BW scene, you would know there was "Romad," I believe, who was considered to be a hotkey savant. He identified every smurf via hotkey analysis. I've never heard of him being wrong. He was absolutely incredible. It's not hard to realize matches. The hard part is remembering all of the different hotkeys and patterns players have. The more hotkeys you're aware of, the more sure you can be about something being unique, though. No one has the same hotkeys I have. And, even if they did, which they don't, what are the odds of the apm/eapm being similar enough? Hotkey analysis is SC 2's version of DNA testing. Given enough knowledge, they're probably close to comparable in effectiveness, too. Then, when you bring common sense into the equation, you can limit the possibilities, ie., How many players are capable of being number 1 on the NA ladder with Toss, be it legit or illegitimately, and what are their hotkeys? If the only person who ends up sharing that pattern is Deezer, then, well, that's who it is. Coincidentally/ironically I came across an old Destiny vod the other day where he was using hotkey analysis to determine whether he was playing vs Deezer or not. I didn't look closely enough to take note of what the hotkeys were back then. I can't PM people since I told manifesto that I didn't have anything to say to him... but someone told me via PM that they would share more details about this if I was interested. Maybe you're more interested than I am and haven't told manifesto you didn't have anything to say to him. If I'm interested about anyone, it's Cham because this guy is doing better on ladders than when he was blatantly cheating. And, recently, he gave an interview where he said he would love to stream and really wants to, but he simply doesn't have enough time "or something like that." It's inexcusable that this guy is allowed to play in tournaments without streaming his games. This guy is playing all of his games in the hacker clan, under magical. Top 6 now on the ladder. I've never heard him say he doesn't hack, yet is anyone going to even review his online tournament games in the future? It's such a bad precedent when SC 2 can't even handle the hackers that are known, let alone ones that are unknown. are you to the gm protoss on na? if so, it's really hard for anyone to take you seriously when you randomly accuse legit players after 5 minutes of gameplay :S Are you the guy I just played or something? If so, you might have been too busy making drones to realize normal players don't go afk with their overlords in the middle of someone's base. If you play on NA and you haven't called someone a hacker within the first 5 minutes of a game, then you're probably hacking yourself. I've been called a hacker in probably 30% of my games, if not more, this past month. I've maybe played one game versus Nathanias in my life, where he hasn't randomly called me a hacker. Maybe people shouldn't take him seriously. I've even been reported in this thread a few days ago, despite playing while on stream. It doesn't bother me. I understand it. Something is wrong with you if you're playing on NA and you're not paranoid of everyone, the past few months. Here is an example of why I would personally call someone out for going afk in my base. A day ago or so, I played a Zerg who didn't scout my natural with anything, and he just had an overlord afk in my base for 5 or so minutes. Then, he 2 base all-in'd me. He never showed any interest in scouting my natural to see what my defense was. It was probably that Chiraq guy. I lost that game because I didn't say anything. I just kept staring at his overlord and I forgot to make my mother ship core. The moral of the story is, when you play someone who is either hacking or having a bronze league moment, you should inquire about their legitimacy to get a better feel for whether you're playing a legit player or not. Otherwise, you're just going to further mind f yourself and have no clue of how you should approach the game. There is a HUGE difference between reporting someone in a thread or elsewhere and calling them a hacker during the game. You know this, right? In this thread, if I've reported someone who I said hacked and they didn't, they would be the first. I didn't even bother to upload replay vs Cham because the guy had already admitted to hacking in the past and was getting reported every other week prior to me making an accusation (and I knew nothing of this beforehand). Even now, he has never told me he doesn't hack. He plays in a hacking clan now. What do you think his stance is on hackers? If I called someone a hacker, reviewed the replay and then reported on them... the truth of the matter is, they were hacking on a level that was as blatant as nerfy has ever been. That's why I don't even really bother to report hackers: if it's at that point, then everyone already knows, anyways. Normally, all you can say is someone is suspicious or plays weird. Virium, to me, plays like a hacker. Bubbles, I've just recently played for the first times and this is the weirdest player I've played. I don't know if he hacks, he probably doesn't. But, I wouldn't bet on me being able to get away with a proxy pylon in the next 30 games versus him. There's literally only 2 people I can think of even mentioning that aren't "nerfy" level. when you accuse everyone you play because they move an overlord and your zealots die... youre almost as bad as the people actually hacking man. Your response is just...mind blowingly stupid. You went late core, nexus into forge. There was no anti air .. what the hell. Then your 3 zealots killed a ling on the way to my base and only by the time it was very obvious that your 3 zealots did 0 damage, you started calling me a hacker.... You belong on NA with all the hackers imo. I watched that replay afterwards and looked at your vision. You didn't even look at your overlord until I reminded you of it. You had a bronze league moment. It had 0 to do with the lings. I was confused as to why you would even think that. But, o that's right, you forgot about your overlord. Maybe you over drone and lose to every all-in because you forget to look? If you think my reasoning is stupid, then, well I have news for you, you might want to look in the mirror. How do you think hackers on NA play. Before that Chiraq guy was streaming himself hacking, I noted him as a hacker because not only was he on a team with 100 hackers but he did the same thing as you. Obviously, when I watched the replay of you, I realized you had a bronze league moment. Now, after hearing you in this thread, I'm realizing why you had a bronze league moment. Replay of Ret (I guess) showing off his perfectly normal scouting: http://drop.sc/390867I'm sorry, Ret, I haven't been playing in Bronze league. 99% of time when players forget they have a unit in my base, it's not because they forgot. It's because they were hacking. I honestly lost a game simply due to not accusing a guy that I figured was hacking, because of this. If I don't want to get accused of hacking by a player, then it helps if I wouldn't forget to scout on a 4 player map. Wtf do you expect? If you can find a player I reported as hacking in this thread who is legit, let me know Ret. Until then, maybe go work on your scouting. This is the 2nd time you are trying to insult me with your overdone thing, great job man. Keep accusing everyone you play Listen man, I sometimes go idle with my probe in P vs P. If anyone ever finds me not constantly looking at my probe, I hope to god they call me out in the forum to laugh at me and call me a hacker, because that's flat out embarrassing and inexcusable to me. I didn't realize you were everyone I played. You have more examples? I hear Puck calls everyone a hacker. Maybe his opinion after watching replays shouldn't be valued. I've been called a hacker at a bare minimum of 30% of my recent games. I was even called a hacker by a blatant hacker... Nothing I said was out of line to you. Did I say anything when you attacked me the second I went to morph my dts into archons? You're acting like I've went out on a limb with the people I have reported... If calling someone a hacker, who has admitted to hacking, who is now in a hacking clan, is a little too much for you, then I have to question what skill does Zerg take. Is it just making drones and swarm hosts? You were one of the best non Korean BW players. You're a macro beast. I have no history with you, that I know of. I have nothing against you. The only thing I wish is when I saw you at a tournament, you would be more prepared for all-ins. Because, everyone knows to all-in you until you show you're willing to not over drone. You just come off as bitter about the game to me. I don't think you hack. Yet, I obviously can't regret making that comment about your overlord. You haven't played enough on NA if you think that was uncalled for. Being called a hacker on NA is standard atm. It doesn't matter who you are or how legit you are, you should expect it, even when you can't tell why they would think that. But, until someone has reviewed a replay and then reported you on a thread like this, what difference does it make? It's almost an admission of being wrong if you weren't reported, thus they aren't as haste as you believe, anyways. I just lol'd while reading all this. "Maybe you had a bronze league moment" :D Ret, when you're gonna get out of bronze mate? These people... just sad. Buy this poor NA protoss a medal as a late Christmas present or something. Even though I rarely read TeamLiquid now, but when I do it's totally worth it! Yeah, this whining belongs in the awesome/confusing BM thread
Whining? I won a game. No whining there. I said "you strike me as a legit player..." as an overlord stayed in the same spot for minutes, despite not even being in a position to see what tech I would put down. That's what "this" is about. Like I said, I lost a game yesterday to someone who did this. The guy wasn't legit. I don't randomly inquire to whether someone is hacking, ala nathanias or avilo.
EU players simply don't understand how bad it is on NA. There's always at least 20 people in GM on NA who won't even scout you, or there's always at least 20 people in "hacking clans." That's why I'm rarely bothered by someone calling me a hacker. Unless you're taking very good notes on players and making sure you're not searching when they are, you're playing a hacker every other game. It's going to mess with you..
There's a big, big difference between being disrespectful like Nathanias and calling you out when you're not on a smurf, like who the F is he as a player, and when someone is smurfing you and does something "suspicious." Every day, you play against someone for the first time, on a new account, who is hacking. You can't take that personally if you're get mistaken. If I thought Ret was hacking, believe me, I would have noted him. I didn't even go that far.
Next time someone has an overlord lingering in my base doing nothing for minutes, I'm going to say the same thing. I guess I'd either find out it was Ret or the hacker I seem to play every other day. That works for me.
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On December 30 2014 01:23 playa wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2014 00:57 NeThZOR wrote:On December 30 2014 00:34 arew wrote:On December 29 2014 20:13 playa wrote:On December 29 2014 19:47 Liquid`Ret wrote:On December 29 2014 19:38 playa wrote:On December 29 2014 19:23 Liquid`Ret wrote:On December 29 2014 18:38 playa wrote:On December 29 2014 18:10 Liquid`Ret wrote:On December 28 2014 16:04 playa wrote:
[quote]
Depends how generic or unique the pattern is. If you were in the BW scene, you would know there was "Romad," I believe, who was considered to be a hotkey savant. He identified every smurf via hotkey analysis. I've never heard of him being wrong. He was absolutely incredible. It's not hard to realize matches. The hard part is remembering all of the different hotkeys and patterns players have. The more hotkeys you're aware of, the more sure you can be about something being unique, though.
No one has the same hotkeys I have. And, even if they did, which they don't, what are the odds of the apm/eapm being similar enough? Hotkey analysis is SC 2's version of DNA testing. Given enough knowledge, they're probably close to comparable in effectiveness, too.
Then, when you bring common sense into the equation, you can limit the possibilities, ie., How many players are capable of being number 1 on the NA ladder with Toss, be it legit or illegitimately, and what are their hotkeys? If the only person who ends up sharing that pattern is Deezer, then, well, that's who it is.
Coincidentally/ironically I came across an old Destiny vod the other day where he was using hotkey analysis to determine whether he was playing vs Deezer or not. I didn't look closely enough to take note of what the hotkeys were back then.
I can't PM people since I told manifesto that I didn't have anything to say to him... but someone told me via PM that they would share more details about this if I was interested. Maybe you're more interested than I am and haven't told manifesto you didn't have anything to say to him.
If I'm interested about anyone, it's Cham because this guy is doing better on ladders than when he was blatantly cheating. And, recently, he gave an interview where he said he would love to stream and really wants to, but he simply doesn't have enough time "or something like that." It's inexcusable that this guy is allowed to play in tournaments without streaming his games. This guy is playing all of his games in the hacker clan, under magical. Top 6 now on the ladder. I've never heard him say he doesn't hack, yet is anyone going to even review his online tournament games in the future?
It's such a bad precedent when SC 2 can't even handle the hackers that are known, let alone ones that are unknown.
are you to the gm protoss on na? if so, it's really hard for anyone to take you seriously when you randomly accuse legit players after 5 minutes of gameplay :S Are you the guy I just played or something? If so, you might have been too busy making drones to realize normal players don't go afk with their overlords in the middle of someone's base. If you play on NA and you haven't called someone a hacker within the first 5 minutes of a game, then you're probably hacking yourself. I've been called a hacker in probably 30% of my games, if not more, this past month. I've maybe played one game versus Nathanias in my life, where he hasn't randomly called me a hacker. Maybe people shouldn't take him seriously. I've even been reported in this thread a few days ago, despite playing while on stream. It doesn't bother me. I understand it. Something is wrong with you if you're playing on NA and you're not paranoid of everyone, the past few months. Here is an example of why I would personally call someone out for going afk in my base. A day ago or so, I played a Zerg who didn't scout my natural with anything, and he just had an overlord afk in my base for 5 or so minutes. Then, he 2 base all-in'd me. He never showed any interest in scouting my natural to see what my defense was. It was probably that Chiraq guy. I lost that game because I didn't say anything. I just kept staring at his overlord and I forgot to make my mother ship core. The moral of the story is, when you play someone who is either hacking or having a bronze league moment, you should inquire about their legitimacy to get a better feel for whether you're playing a legit player or not. Otherwise, you're just going to further mind f yourself and have no clue of how you should approach the game. There is a HUGE difference between reporting someone in a thread or elsewhere and calling them a hacker during the game. You know this, right? In this thread, if I've reported someone who I said hacked and they didn't, they would be the first. I didn't even bother to upload replay vs Cham because the guy had already admitted to hacking in the past and was getting reported every other week prior to me making an accusation (and I knew nothing of this beforehand). Even now, he has never told me he doesn't hack. He plays in a hacking clan now. What do you think his stance is on hackers? If I called someone a hacker, reviewed the replay and then reported on them... the truth of the matter is, they were hacking on a level that was as blatant as nerfy has ever been. That's why I don't even really bother to report hackers: if it's at that point, then everyone already knows, anyways. Normally, all you can say is someone is suspicious or plays weird. Virium, to me, plays like a hacker. Bubbles, I've just recently played for the first times and this is the weirdest player I've played. I don't know if he hacks, he probably doesn't. But, I wouldn't bet on me being able to get away with a proxy pylon in the next 30 games versus him. There's literally only 2 people I can think of even mentioning that aren't "nerfy" level. when you accuse everyone you play because they move an overlord and your zealots die... youre almost as bad as the people actually hacking man. Your response is just...mind blowingly stupid. You went late core, nexus into forge. There was no anti air .. what the hell. Then your 3 zealots killed a ling on the way to my base and only by the time it was very obvious that your 3 zealots did 0 damage, you started calling me a hacker.... You belong on NA with all the hackers imo. I watched that replay afterwards and looked at your vision. You didn't even look at your overlord until I reminded you of it. You had a bronze league moment. It had 0 to do with the lings. I was confused as to why you would even think that. But, o that's right, you forgot about your overlord. Maybe you over drone and lose to every all-in because you forget to look? If you think my reasoning is stupid, then, well I have news for you, you might want to look in the mirror. How do you think hackers on NA play. Before that Chiraq guy was streaming himself hacking, I noted him as a hacker because not only was he on a team with 100 hackers but he did the same thing as you. Obviously, when I watched the replay of you, I realized you had a bronze league moment. Now, after hearing you in this thread, I'm realizing why you had a bronze league moment. Replay of Ret (I guess) showing off his perfectly normal scouting: http://drop.sc/390867I'm sorry, Ret, I haven't been playing in Bronze league. 99% of time when players forget they have a unit in my base, it's not because they forgot. It's because they were hacking. I honestly lost a game simply due to not accusing a guy that I figured was hacking, because of this. If I don't want to get accused of hacking by a player, then it helps if I wouldn't forget to scout on a 4 player map. Wtf do you expect? If you can find a player I reported as hacking in this thread who is legit, let me know Ret. Until then, maybe go work on your scouting. This is the 2nd time you are trying to insult me with your overdone thing, great job man. Keep accusing everyone you play Listen man, I sometimes go idle with my probe in P vs P. If anyone ever finds me not constantly looking at my probe, I hope to god they call me out in the forum to laugh at me and call me a hacker, because that's flat out embarrassing and inexcusable to me. I didn't realize you were everyone I played. You have more examples? I hear Puck calls everyone a hacker. Maybe his opinion after watching replays shouldn't be valued. I've been called a hacker at a bare minimum of 30% of my recent games. I was even called a hacker by a blatant hacker... Nothing I said was out of line to you. Did I say anything when you attacked me the second I went to morph my dts into archons? You're acting like I've went out on a limb with the people I have reported... If calling someone a hacker, who has admitted to hacking, who is now in a hacking clan, is a little too much for you, then I have to question what skill does Zerg take. Is it just making drones and swarm hosts? You were one of the best non Korean BW players. You're a macro beast. I have no history with you, that I know of. I have nothing against you. The only thing I wish is when I saw you at a tournament, you would be more prepared for all-ins. Because, everyone knows to all-in you until you show you're willing to not over drone. You just come off as bitter about the game to me. I don't think you hack. Yet, I obviously can't regret making that comment about your overlord. You haven't played enough on NA if you think that was uncalled for. Being called a hacker on NA is standard atm. It doesn't matter who you are or how legit you are, you should expect it, even when you can't tell why they would think that. But, until someone has reviewed a replay and then reported you on a thread like this, what difference does it make? It's almost an admission of being wrong if you weren't reported, thus they aren't as haste as you believe, anyways. I just lol'd while reading all this. "Maybe you had a bronze league moment" :D Ret, when you're gonna get out of bronze mate? These people... just sad. Buy this poor NA protoss a medal as a late Christmas present or something. Even though I rarely read TeamLiquid now, but when I do it's totally worth it! Yeah, this whining belongs in the awesome/confusing BM thread Whining? I won a game. No whining there. I said "you strike me as a legit player..." as an overlord stayed in the same spot for minutes, despite not even being in a position to see what tech I would put down. That's what "this" is about. Like I said, I lost a game yesterday to someone who did this. The guy wasn't legit. I don't randomly inquire to whether someone is hacking, ala nathanias or avilo. EU players simply don't understand how bad it is on NA. There's always at least 20 people in GM on NA who won't even scout you, or there's always at least 20 people in "hacking clans." That's why I'm rarely bothered by someone calling me a hacker. Unless you're taking very good notes on players and making sure you're not searching when they are, you're playing a hacker every other game. It's going to mess with you.. There's a big, big difference between being disrespectful like Nathanias and calling you out when you're not on a smurf, like who the F is he as a player, and when someone is smurfing you and does something "suspicious." Every day, you play against someone for the first time, on a new account, who is hacking. You can't take that personally if you're get mistaken. If I thought Ret was hacking, believe me, I would have noted him. I didn't even go that far. Next time someone has an overlord lingering in my base doing nothing for minutes, I'm going to say the same thing. I guess I'd either find out it was Ret or the hacker I seem to play every other day. That works for me.
Wow, you won a game, grats man! Now you truly deserve a medal!
I'd say that 99% of the high rated GM players do not give a damn if the player is hacking or not, the only one thing that matters while playing ladder is to practice and it's even the better practice while someone is hacking I'd say. Since 99% of these ppl who is hacking are pretty dumb and awful so it's kinda easy win most of time anyways otherwise its just some time of 5minute blind all-in what is easily seen if the person is hacking once you watch a replay, then you just dont care about ~20ish points you just lost. Guess this thread was made to report maphackers instead of reporting who won a game/is over-droning/making invalid statements or w/e. That's kinda sad, what SC2 community has became I'd say.
Yes, SC2 needs a good hacker protection but it does not deserve a whining I'd say. Have you seen any of the pros whining about the hackers? I'd be very glad to see the posts of them. I'm pretty sure you will not find, because they don't care about it. So stop whining and go practice~~
Anyway, what matters is the tournaments/results and it comes through LANs/broadcasted games - the rest is the only practice. If it offends you when someone calls you hacker or w/e you should most likely tell it to your mom I guess...
TL;DR less whining more playing~
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