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You have to provide some kind of evidence/proof (screenshots/replays etc.) if you are going to accuse somebody.
Additionally, a supporting comment of what people should be looking for and when will be necessary if you are posting replays/evidence. |
On January 14 2014 22:38 Asuna wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2014 12:47 korona wrote:On January 14 2014 12:32 Asuna wrote:On January 14 2014 09:56 korona wrote:On January 14 2014 08:18 mikumegurine wrote:On January 14 2014 07:11 korona wrote:NA Grandmaster iRene (aka Moosegills, see bottom of the post) cheated to be able to participate WCS America S1 / 2014 Wildcard Qualifier (tanked her MMR by leaving more than 100 matches to be able to get fast easy wins to meet the participation criteria of 200 wins) Her Bnet account: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/3657933/1/iRene/WCS America Ladder Wildcard Qualifier bracket: http://binarybeast.com/xHotS1401074/fullYou may have read multiple reports on Reddit, that iRene has lately been MMR abusing, such as: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1v22e3/irene_na_gm_4_times_throwing_50_games_to_get_gold/As you know MMR abuse is bannable offense according to Blizzard: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2793222175#17Now the reason for her behavior became obvious. She is participating WCS America ladder wildcard qualifier. One of the conditions to be able to participate in the qualifier is that the player has to have total 200 wins with her account from last & current season combined (note that normally 200 wins are needed from single season, but they made exception that for the first season wins from 2 seasons are summed up). From last season she had 120 wins. From this season she has exactly 80 wins and thus she has exactly 200 wins combined. To get the needed 80 wins she tanked her MMR to low leagues to get fast & easy wins. Here is a picture of her current ladder profile (taken 2014-01-13 22:52 CET, to left last season, to right current season): http://imgur.com/azSMmJ1She dropped from the wildcard qualifier during RO32 against ST Bomber with result 1-2. Before this she had defeated one opponent. This kind of cheating regarding the WCS should not be tolerated. Please note that I am not accusing her for hacks (even if she could have been using a loss bot). -- Edit: Changed all masculines to feminine. Originally wrote this in masculine, but as I don't know her gender I changed it to feminine, but few masculines accidentally remained in few phrases that have now been fixed. Edit 2: According to another poster: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=20589406On January 14 2014 07:15 NovaMB wrote:
iRene is Moosegills Edit 3: Based on Moosegills' twitter he indeed seems to be iRene (describing his qualifier matches against Bomber): http://i.imgur.com/QlAyCXf.png in that reddit thread someone said lots of players are doing this. Guitarcheese, xenocider, a barcode etc. ? Don't know about Xenocider and the barcode player. But evidence regarding Guitarcheese aka vVvGlon (account name) was found: --- NA Grandmaster 'Guitarcheese' aka 'vVvGlon' (account name) cheated to be able to participate WCS America S1 / 2014 Wildcard Qualifier (tanked his MMR to diamond range by leaving lots of matches to be able to get fast & easy wins to meet the participation criteria of 200 wins). He used name 'Guitarcheese' when participating WCS ladder wildcard qualifiers. He used account named 'vVvGlon': http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/2706103/1/vVvGlon/Same story as with iRene. To be able to get 200 wins Guitarcheese (vVvGlon) tanked his MMR to lower leagues to get easy wins. Here is a picture of his profile: http://i.imgur.com/HCd62e4.pngAccording it he has 126 wins from last season and 75 wins from this season (total 201). As you know MMR abuse is bannable offense according to Blizzard: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2793222175#17Guitarcheese (vVvGlon) did not drop his MMR as low as iRene. Regrettably Blizzard limited match history to 100 matches just before HotS was published. But if we look at his first and last 1v1 ladder match visible in the history we notice that both his opponents were diamonds (most opponents for matches between were also diamonds). He prevented his MMR from rising too high by leaving several games in between instantly and then winning similar number of games. Here is a picture of his first and last opponent visible in his match history: http://i.imgur.com/D0qkc8l.jpgAnd here are the custom game opponents (Cloudy and JonSnow, against RuFF he must have played with another account or used private setting): http://i.imgur.com/E6IuHhq.jpgPlease note the opponents and results match Guitarcheese's opponents in the qualifier bracket: http://binarybeast.com/xHotS1401074/fullHere is link to the full image gallery: http://imgur.com/a/JEUx3During his qualifier run he beat Cloydy (2-0) and RuFF (2-0). He reached to RO16 and lost to JonSnow (1-2). While this mmr abuse is against the ToS, it feels a bit weird reading about these cases of MMR abuse in this thread, because the players involved are all legit players who unfortunately got blindsided by the rather random 200 wins requirement of the WCS qualifiers (has any other major qualifier had the condition of number of wins?). Though it is cheating by the text of the ToS, to me this kind of feels like it belongs in its own thread, rather than having them lumped in this thread with actual hackers and cheaters. Maybe I'm biased because I'm in GM myself but without 200 wins so I couldn't participate, but it doesn't seem right lumping them in the thread that has until now almost entirely been limited to maphackers. As the name of thread says this is also the general cheating thread on TL, even if such minor things such as MMR abuse have not been reported here before. But these cases are different as these were done to advance oneself in Blizzard's main tournament (of course only to get permit to participate in a qualifier... But still I am getting TSL2 vibes). And at this point there was no point to create a new thread for this issue and cause drama. Also it seems more cases may be found if the rumors are to believed... The thing is, the TSL2 stuff involved getting higher on ladder than you were capable of getting after you had tried your best, which was important since only the top whatever number of players could get in. This is just an idiotic arbitrary rule saying you have to have won 200 games (nothing about MMR), so if you are like top 50 gm but without 200 wins, you can't play, whereas if you're a super low masters with 500 wins you're good to go. And this requirement doesn't even qualify you for the tournament the way TSL2 did - this is just to let you play in the qualifiers... Idk I'm not really a fan of getting on people's cases for this particular case. There seems to be a clear difference to me.
Even if the wildcard entry rule could have been better there is a similarity that is: - Are you willing to cheat if there is a chance for it. The wildcard system was made to promote so called 'ladder heroes' (if they manage to get pass the Koreans in the bracket). And the rules were known since 2013-11-21 so there was time to prepare oneself (and the rules were later relaxed for the first season on 2014-01-07).
As I mentioned the question is: 'Are you willing to cheat if there is a chance for it?' And are you willing to do it visibly to the others? It is fast and easy to spot grandmaster accounts that have considerably more losses than wins. After spotting such account you need to check the reason for the losses. The more greedy you have been regarding the abuse, the more visible your account becomes. But if you use different username with your account it takes little more time to deduct who is who. This time you cannot hide behind barcodes as the rules required usernames to be recognizable.
If you are willing to cheat in this kind of occasions where you are likely to be caught (if you do it blatantly like these two did), it makes me wonder what people are willing to do regarding occasions where it is hard catch people for cheating (such as online matches for tournaments, where actual hacks, stream cheating, observer cheating, etc. could be used). Cheating is still cheating even if the severity can considerably differ. Where to draw the line when 'cheating is allowed' and when it is not?
Of course it also should have been the responsibility of the tournament organizers (potentially working together with Blizzard regarding checking the accounts) to spot those cases and not letting them to participate in the first place. Also it would be nice if Blizzard would rework the ladder system somewhat if they are going to use it for qualification criteria in the future - the current GM system (users cannot be dropped after getting in & not necessary containing the top 200 regarding MMR), hidden MMR, MMR decay, etc. create abuse possibilities & make it harder to spot the abusers.
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I get what you mean, but basically here's the difference I see.
Basically all the people who have rightly been looked into so far have been getting an unfair advantage by artificially inflating their apparent skill. This happens either by hacking (which no surprise increases apparent skill when hacks are used), or by win trading in order to get above a certain rating cutoff that they couldn't otherwise reach.
On the other hand, there's also artificially deflating your apparent skill in order to play in league-limited tourneys, such as if a masters player pretended to be gold in order to play in a bronze-gold tourney. That would be just as wrong as the other forms of cheating, as there's an unfair advantage in competition.
The difference here is that there is no unfair advantage in competition at all. When it comes down to it they are playing through the qualifiers on an even footing with the skill that they possess. There's no artificial increase of skill. There's an artificial decrease of skill but seeing as how this tourney is not rating capped, that's a moot point. It's like someone playing on a diamond smurf in a bronze-gm tourney.
+ Show Spoiler [side wcs compaint] +To me having a 200 win requirement is just as stupid as a 2000 win requirement. A 2000 win requirement would obviously be ridiculous, but to me it's not a question of magnitude. Having a rating cutoff is fine - sure there will be an amount of time devoted factor when everyone's laddering, but there's a heavy dose of skill involved as well. A pure 200 win requirement is bs. There's no skill involved in that. Sure they require you to be masters, but anyone who has half a chance at qualifying is going to get masters no problem at all. The only way anyone's not going to make the cut is because of the win requirement, not because of skill.
And that's why I honestly don't care if someone ladder abuses to get their 200 wins by throwing games and then winning easy games, especially if their results showed they had a chance of qualifying. Cutoff requirements that have absolutely 0 relevance with skill are dumb. This is WCS America ffs. It's supposed to at least pretend to try to grow the American scene. I can understand putting a game requirement on people from other regions who feel like playing in the American region, but if you live in North/South America such an arbitrary wins requirement is stupid. It should be purely rating based if they want to prevent too many people from signing up or whatever (and their signups don't even fill up so why bother cutting it off even more?). If someone who wants to try to qualify is mid-GM, it's dumb to say - "Sorry, you can't play because you only have 140 wins. This low masters guy though, he's good to go!"
Definitely worked out better for them than my having fun sitting on the side not being able to play because I didn't have time to ladder that much despite being in GM.
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Hacker name : OMGjustLEAVE/EU/1/2608944 (Question to this later in this post, since he has changed his name i think)
probably name change to ĄĆĄŽ (i am not 100% sure see question please)
Server: EU
League: 1v1 Top8 Masters
Description:
Not giving a fuck, it is a 4v4 replay he tells us the races of the enemy team, before any scounting (enemy team has 2 random players). One of his teammate asks in german if he really has one (not saying explicitly maphack), he says he has one.
REPLAY
Reported him of course in SC2 after game.
I have a question, if i go on SC2 gears and say he should show he Bnet profile, the page does not exist.
But if i tell SC2gears to show me his SC2ranks profile he shows one with another name. The same id as in the Bnet profile and his full name is in the SC2ranks profile, so i assume he changed his battletag, right!?
His SC2ranks profile: SC2ranks
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I was just playing a tvt and did a 12/14 2 rax aggression expand(not a good build I know... was drunk).
But he does some fishy stuff through the game that I want some second hand feedback on.
EDIT:Forgot the replay-- http://drop.sc/371121
5:40~, he moves his SCVs like he is maynarding them, but then stops them... That is either a sick metagame play or hacking.
6:42, he lifts his natural CC and moves his SCVs away from his nat... before he has eyes on my army.
13:00 minutes he moves his inbase third CC to his non-gold third base. This was after a banshee and marine exchange just 10-20 seconds earlier. While I moved your forces up to the gold third base, he moves his third base to the blue third.
15:54 he stims his marines to attack a drop in progress in his main base... that he has literally no vision of.
18:18... lol, he moves his army into a spot with no strategic value otherwise to kill three fully loaded drop ships. With no vision of anything to boot. He only gets one of them though, I reacted fairly quickly.
19:50 He sends two dropships to drop right next to a base that I am taking, that he has zero knowledge of.
23:18. He A-moves his army right on top of an army of mine through the fog of war. An army that he has 100% knowledge of.
25:08 He moves his army to go take a position that would allow him to siege my blue expansion third base. He then inexplicably turns around, coincidentally intercepting my army.
29:30, I maneuver my army in such a manner that its obvious I am going one side, he falls for it and starts moving his army. As soon as his scan goes away and I start moving to gain a position the opposite direction of the feint I did, he moves his army to intercept me.
30:35 A moment after you unsiege and go off, he unseiges his tanks and restablishes a position that I just had. With no vision of my moveout.
31:00 He begins moving his army to go on an intercept course for mine... even though he... well get the picture. It ends up with both armies in the middle of nowhere.
It just seems like too much. But then again he also let somethings happen that with hacks should have never happened like certain drops.
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Name: Deadman starcraft://profile/2/12438888307612450816
Server: EU
Replay: http://drop.sc/371158
24:20: He looks into the fog, right on top of where my army is.
screenshot:
+ Show Spoiler +
He hasn't scouted the entire game, the moment I build expansions at awkward locations, he immediately a-moves there.
he constantly puts his army into a correct position from where I am about to attack, he looks into the fog constantly, he cuts off my army constantly, without any vision ( no observers, nothing.)
I can provide a lot of timestamps if need be.
++
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Someone should start a new thread since op no longer edits the list
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On January 18 2014 00:55 ScLight wrote:
Someone should start a new thread since op no longer edits the list
Someone could ask to take over the OP too.
You can ask an admin to do that.
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Name: DaduhWEEwah (probably nerffy)
Server: NA
League: Grandmaster
http://drop.sc/371285
incredibly obvious replay
I open proxy gate and he goes 10 supply depot, 11 barracks, 12 supply depot no scout, keeps scvs near the wall to repair for my incoming units and makes a bunker (at 3minutes) while having 0 vision
there are no "coincidences" in this game, he didn't see my probe going towards his base, he didn't see anything, and he never once went 2nd supply depot @ 12 supply in any of his games
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Hacker name rapter
Server EU
League high master
Description looks into the fog multiple times, pulls back unit for drop he is looking onto into the fog
http://drop.sc/371354
never scouted , never had watch towers
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Player named Hermione who has a very blatant MH, currently 35-0. Plays well beyond the MH, not necessary a random scrub, but someone decent who is using it, methinks.
http://drop.sc/371446
Consistently moves with my units on FOW early game vs reapers, blindly goes CC first and then lifts back into the main when I'm doing an aggressive strat, before scouting what I do, moving with my counter attacks, sending two marines out to intercept my single scouting marine, etc. The person isn't trying to hide it, to clarify.
Second game, once again, clearly a MH.
http://drop.sc/371447
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I have messaged one of their managers in the past about some bm players saying that he should tell them to not be so bm since they are a known team. he responds with:
me: hey is aidan part of your good rosteR?
me: you should tell him to be more mannered in ladder games
Team 2 Pro: who are you?
me: another sc2 manager.
Team 2 Pro: Thats great well dont ever message me again
me: I see where your player gets the BM from.
Dont think they care.
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On January 18 2014 00:41 kaluro wrote:Name: Deadman starcraft://profile/2/12438888307612450816Server: EU Replay: http://drop.sc/37115824:20: He looks into the fog, right on top of where my army is. screenshot: + Show Spoiler +He hasn't scouted the entire game, the moment I build expansions at awkward locations, he immediately a-moves there. he constantly puts his army into a correct position from where I am about to attack, he looks into the fog constantly, he cuts off my army constantly, without any vision ( no observers, nothing.) I can provide a lot of timestamps if need be. ++
I just played against this obviously maphacking disgusting shit. 
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I've played a very strange game versus Diabolus, 9 times GM.
The way he reacts to a baneling he didn't scout at all is very fishy.
Replay : http://drop.sc/371499
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On January 21 2014 03:42 Girondelle wrote:I've played a very strange game versus Diabolus, 9 times GM. The way he reacts to a baneling he didn't scout at all is very fishy. Replay : http://drop.sc/371499
Played him a few times and I'm pretty sure he doesn't maphack. Unless he just started xD.
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Russian Federation3 Posts
On January 21 2014 03:42 Girondelle wrote:I've played a very strange game versus Diabolus, 9 times GM. The way he reacts to a baneling he didn't scout at all is very fishy. Replay : http://drop.sc/371499
Since that guy lost to my dt rush against his 4 g i'm sure he isnt hacking.
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On January 21 2014 01:20 SpeedyBozar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2014 00:41 kaluro wrote:Name: Deadman starcraft://profile/2/12438888307612450816Server: EU Replay: http://drop.sc/37115824:20: He looks into the fog, right on top of where my army is. screenshot: + Show Spoiler +He hasn't scouted the entire game, the moment I build expansions at awkward locations, he immediately a-moves there. he constantly puts his army into a correct position from where I am about to attack, he looks into the fog constantly, he cuts off my army constantly, without any vision ( no observers, nothing.) I can provide a lot of timestamps if need be. ++ I just played against this obviously maphacking disgusting shit.
I feel for you bro -brohug-
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http://drop.sc/371838
I think this one may be maphack -
Server: NA
Player: ClimaXFishie
League: Diamond
Not a particularly good maphacker if he is, but some moves at the 25minute mark got my attention, specifically:
He loads up two drop ships to hit my 4th, I see them via a tower (but out of his vision) and reposition tanks, and then he oddly goes home. A couple of similar army moves around the same time - he's trying to poke in with bio vs my mech but he keeps deciding not to attack when I reposition my army having seen him via the watchtower.
Most damning: 26:21 I burrow two widow mines and he instantly sends 2 marines forward to kill them. Now he could be just being cautious, but he somehow moves the marines and scans within less that a second of seeing the mines which were previously outside his vision.
Thoughts? I asked him post game to explain but he just told me to report him, which I duly did (not that that makes any difference). It doesn't really matter much since we're in low leagues ofc, but curious if anyone has time whether they think my suspicions are accurate
edit: Prob just minimap. I asked his next two opponents in his match history if they saw anything dodgey and both said they thought so. Both were zerg, and he went 14CC vs both but one went for 3 hatches and one for a roach push. He countered both differently but apparently scouted neither. Odd that he would blindly play differently and "coincidentally" counter both
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/3K5QTx5.jpg)
