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Patch 1.4.3.2 - Page 88

Forum Index > SC2 General
2059 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 86 87 88 89 90 103 Next
teamhozac
Profile Joined April 2012
404 Posts
May 22 2012 19:26 GMT
#1741
On May 23 2012 04:18 Uncultured wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2012 03:55 teamhozac wrote:
On May 23 2012 03:48 Sapphire.lux wrote:
On May 23 2012 03:39 teamhozac wrote:
The worst thing that could have possibly happened for Terran players everywhere was MVP winning GSL, again. This is just going to add fuel to the "Terran players just need to play better" "MVP is Terran and won the GSL four times, you guys just suck" sigh

Zerg won the first 2 GSLs (or was it 3? ) The race was still weak and was patched accordingly. This is why "but x race is fine..it won GSL, l2p" is a stupid argument.


If you notice, not one of MVP's victories came in the late game, what does that tell you?

It tells me you didn't watch the games.


Every game he tried to macro against squirtle he lost... the only somehwat "late game" he won was because squirtle had a terrible engagement, clearly, YOU didnt watch the games
Shiori
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
3815 Posts
May 22 2012 19:29 GMT
#1742
On May 23 2012 04:26 teamhozac wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2012 04:18 Uncultured wrote:
On May 23 2012 03:55 teamhozac wrote:
On May 23 2012 03:48 Sapphire.lux wrote:
On May 23 2012 03:39 teamhozac wrote:
The worst thing that could have possibly happened for Terran players everywhere was MVP winning GSL, again. This is just going to add fuel to the "Terran players just need to play better" "MVP is Terran and won the GSL four times, you guys just suck" sigh

Zerg won the first 2 GSLs (or was it 3? ) The race was still weak and was patched accordingly. This is why "but x race is fine..it won GSL, l2p" is a stupid argument.


If you notice, not one of MVP's victories came in the late game, what does that tell you?

It tells me you didn't watch the games.


Every game he tried to macro against squirtle he lost... the only somehwat "late game" he won was because squirtle had a terrible engagement, clearly, YOU didnt watch the games

Kinda like how the only macro game Squirtle won was the one where MVP had a terrible engagement.

Still waiting on replays of Terrans engaging perfectly and still losing.
Uncultured
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1340 Posts
May 22 2012 19:30 GMT
#1743
If you're having trouble with too much gas and not enough minerals, I don't think the key is to have a gas dump for things, but instead to mine more minerals to equalize the gap.
Don't you rage when you lose too? -FruitDealer
Uncultured
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1340 Posts
May 22 2012 19:32 GMT
#1744
On May 23 2012 04:29 Shiori wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2012 04:26 teamhozac wrote:
On May 23 2012 04:18 Uncultured wrote:
On May 23 2012 03:55 teamhozac wrote:
On May 23 2012 03:48 Sapphire.lux wrote:
On May 23 2012 03:39 teamhozac wrote:
The worst thing that could have possibly happened for Terran players everywhere was MVP winning GSL, again. This is just going to add fuel to the "Terran players just need to play better" "MVP is Terran and won the GSL four times, you guys just suck" sigh

Zerg won the first 2 GSLs (or was it 3? ) The race was still weak and was patched accordingly. This is why "but x race is fine..it won GSL, l2p" is a stupid argument.


If you notice, not one of MVP's victories came in the late game, what does that tell you?

It tells me you didn't watch the games.


Every game he tried to macro against squirtle he lost... the only somehwat "late game" he won was because squirtle had a terrible engagement, clearly, YOU didnt watch the games

Kinda like how the only macro game Squirtle won was the one where MVP had a terrible engagement.

Still waiting on replays of Terrans engaging perfectly and still losing.



Not to mention Squirtle isn't the only protoss he played....
Don't you rage when you lose too? -FruitDealer
ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
May 22 2012 19:33 GMT
#1745
On May 23 2012 04:30 Uncultured wrote:
If you're having trouble with too much gas and not enough minerals, I don't think the key is to have a gas dump for things, but instead to mine more minerals to equalize the gap.

Hm, by "mine more minerals" I assume you're talking about take more bases right?
It's not like it's easy (nor actually beneficial mind you...) to be on 5 mining bases.
SiroKO
Profile Joined February 2012
France721 Posts
May 22 2012 19:34 GMT
#1746
Blizzard not only ignoring balance issue such as tvp lategame, but also creating new one (queen range 5).

Let's have a little bit of fun and calculate the win ratio of zerg pre-patch and post-patch.

Blizzard is truely disapointing.
Our envy always last longer than the happiness of those we envy
nvrs
Profile Joined October 2010
Greece481 Posts
May 22 2012 19:35 GMT
#1747
On May 18 2012 03:52 Coffee Zombie wrote:
Better durability vs. Hellions actually. 175HP 1 armour vs. 145HP 1 armour. DPS is exactly the same (though Roaches in practice more I guess). But yeah, stupid patch is stupid. And most definitely unnecessary. Dunno what was wrong with investing resources (mass sling or roaches) or time (spine) to drive the Hellions away. Kept the us playing fair with minimal risk to either side. Definite overkill as far as I'm concerned. Though early game ZvZ defense buff is nice.

EDIT: Also, Hellions are 100 a pop, standard 4 is 400, plus the investment in early gas and tech to get them out in the first place. But it's not just a bunch of minerals that gets invested in the build, the most important things are time and the lack of a standing army.


Finally, someone is talking sensibly to those who are saying that 200 minerals give you map control (implying two hellions do that). As he said, it's at least 4 hellions plus the gas for the factory + reactor which in the ZvT matchup could go for earlier stim / starport etc.
IPA
Profile Joined August 2010
United States3206 Posts
May 22 2012 19:38 GMT
#1748
On May 23 2012 04:26 teamhozac wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2012 04:18 Uncultured wrote:
On May 23 2012 03:55 teamhozac wrote:
On May 23 2012 03:48 Sapphire.lux wrote:
On May 23 2012 03:39 teamhozac wrote:
The worst thing that could have possibly happened for Terran players everywhere was MVP winning GSL, again. This is just going to add fuel to the "Terran players just need to play better" "MVP is Terran and won the GSL four times, you guys just suck" sigh

Zerg won the first 2 GSLs (or was it 3? ) The race was still weak and was patched accordingly. This is why "but x race is fine..it won GSL, l2p" is a stupid argument.


If you notice, not one of MVP's victories came in the late game, what does that tell you?

It tells me you didn't watch the games.


Every game he tried to macro against squirtle he lost... the only somehwat "late game" he won was because squirtle had a terrible engagement, clearly, YOU didnt watch the games


All you do is complain. Man up, please, jesus. I think the underlying point is: Terran is still competing at a very high level. Yes, it's possible to win. No, this patch patch isn't making you substantially worse as a player.

I know this won't interrupt your personal harangue against Blizzard but I thought it needed to be stated.
Time held me green and dying though I sang in my chains like the sea.
Uncultured
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1340 Posts
May 22 2012 19:46 GMT
#1749
On May 23 2012 04:33 ZenithM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2012 04:30 Uncultured wrote:
If you're having trouble with too much gas and not enough minerals, I don't think the key is to have a gas dump for things, but instead to mine more minerals to equalize the gap.

Hm, by "mine more minerals" I assume you're talking about take more bases right?
It's not like it's easy (nor actually beneficial mind you...) to be on 5 mining bases.



This is true. I just though the idea of having "too much" of a resource to be kind of silly in itself. I do understand the point though. But I think it can be rectified in other ways, like buffing terrans gas-heavy units that don't ever get any use. Like say, reducing the tech-time on ravens (making them not need tech-labs for example).

There have been plenty of games where terrans mine out of both resources though, so I'm not sure if it's really that big of a problem in itself.
Don't you rage when you lose too? -FruitDealer
mec
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden192 Posts
May 22 2012 19:50 GMT
#1750
On May 23 2012 04:33 ZenithM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2012 04:30 Uncultured wrote:
If you're having trouble with too much gas and not enough minerals, I don't think the key is to have a gas dump for things, but instead to mine more minerals to equalize the gap.

Hm, by "mine more minerals" I assume you're talking about take more bases right?
It's not like it's easy (nor actually beneficial mind you...) to be on 5 mining bases.


Why not? Im not saying you should have 5 bases at the start but there is no reason at all for terran not to build more CCs, you got free workers that can mine out bases really fast.
oZe
Profile Joined January 2011
Sweden492 Posts
May 22 2012 20:02 GMT
#1751
On May 23 2012 04:50 mec wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2012 04:33 ZenithM wrote:
On May 23 2012 04:30 Uncultured wrote:
If you're having trouble with too much gas and not enough minerals, I don't think the key is to have a gas dump for things, but instead to mine more minerals to equalize the gap.

Hm, by "mine more minerals" I assume you're talking about take more bases right?
It's not like it's easy (nor actually beneficial mind you...) to be on 5 mining bases.


Why not? Im not saying you should have 5 bases at the start but there is no reason at all for terran not to build more CCs, you got free workers that can mine out bases really fast.


Shhh don't tell him about the mule ^^
The worst kinds of organized crime are religion & government.
Catatonic
Profile Joined August 2011
United States699 Posts
May 22 2012 20:14 GMT
#1752
On May 23 2012 04:34 SiroKO wrote:
Blizzard not only ignoring balance issue such as tvp lategame, but also creating new one (queen range 5).

Let's have a little bit of fun and calculate the win ratio of zerg pre-patch and post-patch.

Blizzard is truely disapointing.

Yea let's just leave TvZ broken early game ok Infinately kite the queens with both queens and hellions an if you set up the bunker rush right zerg's can't break it so hell yea 5 range queens just makes TvZ super unbalanced like it was before -.-. How bout the 5 range queens actually balanced it out an Terrans need to stop crying when Blizz actually makes the game balanced out unlike it was befoer .
T: DeMuslim SeleCT. P: Naniwa Genius. Z: IdrA Destiny Team: EG
SonKiE
Profile Joined March 2010
United States167 Posts
May 22 2012 20:18 GMT
#1753
On May 23 2012 05:14 Catatonic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2012 04:34 SiroKO wrote:
Blizzard not only ignoring balance issue such as tvp lategame, but also creating new one (queen range 5).

Let's have a little bit of fun and calculate the win ratio of zerg pre-patch and post-patch.

Blizzard is truely disapointing.

Yea let's just leave TvZ broken early game ok Infinately kite the queens with both queens and hellions an if you set up the bunker rush right zerg's can't break it so hell yea 5 range queens just makes TvZ super unbalanced like it was before -.-. How bout the 5 range queens actually balanced it out an Terrans need to stop crying when Blizz actually makes the game balanced out unlike it was befoer .

Are you wood or copper league bro

User was warned for this post
country
ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
May 22 2012 20:27 GMT
#1754
On May 23 2012 04:50 mec wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2012 04:33 ZenithM wrote:
On May 23 2012 04:30 Uncultured wrote:
If you're having trouble with too much gas and not enough minerals, I don't think the key is to have a gas dump for things, but instead to mine more minerals to equalize the gap.

Hm, by "mine more minerals" I assume you're talking about take more bases right?
It's not like it's easy (nor actually beneficial mind you...) to be on 5 mining bases.


Why not? Im not saying you should have 5 bases at the start but there is no reason at all for terran not to build more CCs, you got free workers that can mine out bases really fast.

Macro orbitals are good, yes, but you can afford them only when you're maxed already (they're not exactly free so to speak) and it doesn't change the fact that you cannot use all the gas at these expansions, while P and Z eventually will.

We don't see enough of those "true Terran max" with like 15 SCV and rest in army (well aside from TvT), it's probably the way to go, but the problem is surviving the late game, not managing the "ultra late game split map with planetary at chokes and defensive nukes" stage.
teamhozac
Profile Joined April 2012
404 Posts
May 23 2012 12:16 GMT
#1755
On May 23 2012 04:32 Uncultured wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2012 04:29 Shiori wrote:
On May 23 2012 04:26 teamhozac wrote:
On May 23 2012 04:18 Uncultured wrote:
On May 23 2012 03:55 teamhozac wrote:
On May 23 2012 03:48 Sapphire.lux wrote:
On May 23 2012 03:39 teamhozac wrote:
The worst thing that could have possibly happened for Terran players everywhere was MVP winning GSL, again. This is just going to add fuel to the "Terran players just need to play better" "MVP is Terran and won the GSL four times, you guys just suck" sigh

Zerg won the first 2 GSLs (or was it 3? ) The race was still weak and was patched accordingly. This is why "but x race is fine..it won GSL, l2p" is a stupid argument.


If you notice, not one of MVP's victories came in the late game, what does that tell you?

It tells me you didn't watch the games.


Every game he tried to macro against squirtle he lost... the only somehwat "late game" he won was because squirtle had a terrible engagement, clearly, YOU didnt watch the games

Kinda like how the only macro game Squirtle won was the one where MVP had a terrible engagement.

Still waiting on replays of Terrans engaging perfectly and still losing.



Not to mention Squirtle isn't the only protoss he played....


Every game against Naniwa that he won was some sort of cheese as well
teamhozac
Profile Joined April 2012
404 Posts
May 23 2012 12:18 GMT
#1756
On May 23 2012 04:29 Shiori wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2012 04:26 teamhozac wrote:
On May 23 2012 04:18 Uncultured wrote:
On May 23 2012 03:55 teamhozac wrote:
On May 23 2012 03:48 Sapphire.lux wrote:
On May 23 2012 03:39 teamhozac wrote:
The worst thing that could have possibly happened for Terran players everywhere was MVP winning GSL, again. This is just going to add fuel to the "Terran players just need to play better" "MVP is Terran and won the GSL four times, you guys just suck" sigh

Zerg won the first 2 GSLs (or was it 3? ) The race was still weak and was patched accordingly. This is why "but x race is fine..it won GSL, l2p" is a stupid argument.


If you notice, not one of MVP's victories came in the late game, what does that tell you?

It tells me you didn't watch the games.


Every game he tried to macro against squirtle he lost... the only somehwat "late game" he won was because squirtle had a terrible engagement, clearly, YOU didnt watch the games

Kinda like how the only macro game Squirtle won was the one where MVP had a terrible engagement.

Still waiting on replays of Terrans engaging perfectly and still losing.


Youre missing the point, OBVIOUSLY engaging "perfectly" you will win, its just that engaging perfectly as Terran is MUCH harder than engaging "perfectly" as protoss, that is the issue. Players like MVP and MKP can obviously engage well against protoss because they are fucking boss, but 99% of us are nowhere near that level, making engaging perfectly as you state it, nearly impossible. And THAT is the problem with late game tvp, may be balanced at the very tippy top, but it certainly is not at the lower levels, and you know it.

User was warned for this post
medic_ro
Profile Joined July 2011
Romania105 Posts
May 23 2012 12:40 GMT
#1757
--- Nuked ---
Zorkmid
Profile Joined November 2008
4410 Posts
May 23 2012 12:49 GMT
#1758
On May 23 2012 03:16 GinDo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2012 02:48 dashiz wrote:
Queens rape reapers now... once again, cya reapers.

With they way things are developing as result of patching, I feel reapers should be removed from the game all together. They have little to no use. The only thing I can think of is the quick scout in TvT and TvP, but even then you assume alot of risk as a result.

My Opinion
+ Show Spoiler +
Dump the reaper, replace with the FireBat(With BW Stats. The SC2 Campaign Firebat was too buff and would be really OP together with marauders.). Replace Hellion Flamethrower with AutoTurret like attack and give it Mines that are considered Air unit like PDD, but only attacks ground units. As a result you can still mine drag, but you can't minesweep with Collosi.


I wish they would fix the reaper. It's got the potential to be among the most interesting units in the game (filled with boring ass units). They just haven't found the role for it yet. Maybe it could be made more viable as part of the main army, give it two modes or something.
pOnarreT
Profile Joined March 2012
155 Posts
May 23 2012 12:54 GMT
#1759
On May 23 2012 21:18 teamhozac wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2012 04:29 Shiori wrote:
On May 23 2012 04:26 teamhozac wrote:
On May 23 2012 04:18 Uncultured wrote:
On May 23 2012 03:55 teamhozac wrote:
On May 23 2012 03:48 Sapphire.lux wrote:
On May 23 2012 03:39 teamhozac wrote:
The worst thing that could have possibly happened for Terran players everywhere was MVP winning GSL, again. This is just going to add fuel to the "Terran players just need to play better" "MVP is Terran and won the GSL four times, you guys just suck" sigh

Zerg won the first 2 GSLs (or was it 3? ) The race was still weak and was patched accordingly. This is why "but x race is fine..it won GSL, l2p" is a stupid argument.


If you notice, not one of MVP's victories came in the late game, what does that tell you?

It tells me you didn't watch the games.


Every game he tried to macro against squirtle he lost... the only somehwat "late game" he won was because squirtle had a terrible engagement, clearly, YOU didnt watch the games

Kinda like how the only macro game Squirtle won was the one where MVP had a terrible engagement.

Still waiting on replays of Terrans engaging perfectly and still losing.


Youre missing the point, OBVIOUSLY engaging "perfectly" you will win, its just that engaging perfectly as Terran is MUCH harder than engaging "perfectly" as protoss, that is the issue. Players like MVP and MKP can obviously engage well against protoss because they are fucking boss, but 99% of us are nowhere near that level, making engaging perfectly as you state it, nearly impossible. And THAT is the problem with late game tvp, may be balanced at the very tippy top, but it certainly is not at the lower levels, and you know it.



Only the tippy top matters, don't blame balance, blame yourself for sucking and not being good enough. Would you change the rules to lower the ring in basketball because at the tippy top players are too tall and jump high? No, you train and find ways to overcome obstacles in your condition. That is the case on every competition. Maybe you just need to admit to yourself that you're not good enough. Ofcourse you will say the lower level argument, the solution is simple: get better
Nick_54
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States2230 Posts
May 23 2012 13:12 GMT
#1760
On May 23 2012 21:16 teamhozac wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2012 04:32 Uncultured wrote:
On May 23 2012 04:29 Shiori wrote:
On May 23 2012 04:26 teamhozac wrote:
On May 23 2012 04:18 Uncultured wrote:
On May 23 2012 03:55 teamhozac wrote:
On May 23 2012 03:48 Sapphire.lux wrote:
On May 23 2012 03:39 teamhozac wrote:
The worst thing that could have possibly happened for Terran players everywhere was MVP winning GSL, again. This is just going to add fuel to the "Terran players just need to play better" "MVP is Terran and won the GSL four times, you guys just suck" sigh

Zerg won the first 2 GSLs (or was it 3? ) The race was still weak and was patched accordingly. This is why "but x race is fine..it won GSL, l2p" is a stupid argument.


If you notice, not one of MVP's victories came in the late game, what does that tell you?

It tells me you didn't watch the games.


Every game he tried to macro against squirtle he lost... the only somehwat "late game" he won was because squirtle had a terrible engagement, clearly, YOU didnt watch the games

Kinda like how the only macro game Squirtle won was the one where MVP had a terrible engagement.

Still waiting on replays of Terrans engaging perfectly and still losing.



Not to mention Squirtle isn't the only protoss he played....


Every game against Naniwa that he won was some sort of cheese as well


Game 1 wasn't a cheese.
Prev 1 86 87 88 89 90 103 Next
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