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Canada13405 Posts
On May 17 2012 23:01 Pulimuli wrote:
quitting until they revert the queen range or buffs something terran
YEAH! GG NO RE BLIZZARD I DONT WANT TO ADJUST TO ANOTHER PATCH!
Terran isn't broken,and queen range doesnt break the game either. If you aren't high up on the ladder there is a LOT you can do to overcome something like this.
Terran didn't get nerfed at all, the only change is queens shoot farther on ground. If you try banshee openings or drop based play the game isn't changed at all.
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On May 17 2012 23:07 ZeromuS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2012 23:01 Pulimuli wrote:
quitting until they revert the queen range or buffs something terran YEAH! GG NO RE BLIZZARD I DONT WANT TO ADJUST TO ANOTHER PATCH! Terran isn't broken,and queen range doesnt break the game either. If you aren't high up on the ladder there is a LOT you can do to overcome something like this. Terran didn't get nerfed at all, the only change is queens shoot farther on ground. If you try banshee openings or drop based play the game isn't changed at all.
Terran didnt get nerfed? When you are the only race that didnt get buffed it means it is the same as you got nerfed.
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This mass queens + creep spread is so good for infestors and transfused t3 units like broodlords and ultras. Not to mention that zergs now get these units really quickly as they can stupidly fast tech unharmed right now.
Just my TT (Terran Tears).
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On May 17 2012 18:59 guN-viCe wrote:
I've been playing SC2 since beta. It's funny how just a while ago people hated on T for being "OP". They were openly allowed to bitch, and everyone joined it. Now though, T is nerfed into the ground and we still get bitched at and we are not supposed to bitch ourselves. Hypocrisy.
I wish they would buff tanks(damage or siege time) or thors(remove mana or reduce build time).
If T winrates start to resemble that of early Z then bitch all you want.
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On May 17 2012 23:36 BoxingKangaroo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2012 18:59 guN-viCe wrote:
I've been playing SC2 since beta. It's funny how just a while ago people hated on T for being "OP". They were openly allowed to bitch, and everyone joined it. Now though, T is nerfed into the ground and we still get bitched at and we are not supposed to bitch ourselves. Hypocrisy.
I wish they would buff tanks(damage or siege time) or thors(remove mana or reduce build time). If T winrates start to resemble that of early Z then bitch all you want.
These arguements are so dumb. Terran has _by far_ the best players in the world and has had them since release.
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On May 17 2012 23:43 decaf wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2012 23:36 BoxingKangaroo wrote:On May 17 2012 18:59 guN-viCe wrote:
I've been playing SC2 since beta. It's funny how just a while ago people hated on T for being "OP". They were openly allowed to bitch, and everyone joined it. Now though, T is nerfed into the ground and we still get bitched at and we are not supposed to bitch ourselves. Hypocrisy.
I wish they would buff tanks(damage or siege time) or thors(remove mana or reduce build time). If T winrates start to resemble that of early Z then bitch all you want. These arguements are so dumb. Terran has _by far_ the best players in the world and has had them since release.
The only reason why more good BW players chose terran was because it was obviously the strongest race. This is why arguing this is dumb. It goes in a circle.
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Terran is the only race that can build range units without gas.
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On May 17 2012 23:57 Spectreman wrote:
Terran is the only race that can build range units without gas.
Im so impressed by your knowledge of this game, i didnt know that this patch not only did not gave queen +2 range but also -3 range from queens.
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On May 17 2012 23:57 Spectreman wrote:
Terran is the only race that can build range units without gas.
queen yo
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Well ZvT is defently changed a lot and to say banshee openings is still the same.. well that is obviously not true.
First have Zerg an greater incentive to make more queens cause they are good to have around no matter what. Second the fact that other builds get nerfed means that likely hood of banshee builds increase which will make Zerg more likely to prepare against them and thus make them less effective. Third, the banshee build is more likely to get scouted.
If TvZ winrate dont change after this patch are Zerg players stupid.
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I'm willing to bet tha majority of people crying about Queens on this forum have barely even touched the ladder to see how it all plays out for themselves, people were crying about this before the patch even hit, it's like it's become a natural knee-jerk reflex for everyone to start complaining the moment a patch doesn't immediately favor them.
How about this, wait at least a week, maybe a month or two to see how things play out and we actually have some real results and statistic to look at instead of mobs of gold leaguers saying that one little balance patch is suddenly the reason they don't get promoted, yes? If this patch really did break the game or make Zerg op the results will show that in time and Blizzard will keep making changes to balance it all out, so everybody just chill the fuck out and try adjusting your own play a bit before you expect Blizzard to do all the work for you.
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Let me put something in perspective for you guys. Queens only have 8 DPS vs ground targets, compared to the 7 DPS of an unstimmed marine, which costs half the supply and a third of the minerals. Queens also suffer double reduction from armored targets.
You're basically complaining that all early pressure vs Zerg is dead forever because they have what amounts to 2-3 marines in bunkers with 40% HP. Sure there's also transfuse, but it's not as effective as repair, and is extremely unlikely to be available early game if the Z player is keeping up on injects/creep spread.
This buff was nothing more than a small boost to Zerg's defensive capabilities vs extremely early 2rax cheeses or SCV all-ins. It has almost no effect on any other part of the matchup. Learn to play and stop blaming your losses on insignificant stat tweaks, it's embarrassing.
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On May 18 2012 02:45 SmileZerg wrote:
Let me put something in perspective for you guys. Queens only have 8 DPS vs ground targets, compared to the 7 DPS of an unstimmed marine, which costs half the supply and a third of the minerals. Queens also suffer double reduction from armored targets.
You're basically complaining that all early pressure vs Zerg is dead forever because they have what amounts to 2-3 marines in bunkers with 40% HP. Sure there's also transfuse, but it's not as effective as repair, and is extremely unlikely to be available early game if the Z player is keeping up on injects/creep spread.
This buff was nothing more than a small boost to Zerg's defensive capabilities vs extremely early 2rax cheeses or SCV all-ins. It has almost no effect on any other part of the matchup. Learn to play and stop blaming your losses on insignificant stat tweaks, it's embarrassing.
If you got 3 Marines with the durability of Bunkers that just sat around your mineral line, nobody would ever open Hellions against you.
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On May 17 2012 11:20 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2012 10:27 Shiori wrote:On May 17 2012 10:18 BandonBanshee wrote:
The amount of entitlement in this thread is disgusting. This change is supposed to lead to more macro oriented play ( seems to be why terrans hate it ). Does the queens extra range stop you from taking an early third? All it does is help defend against a couple retarded 1 base all in's and help deflect hellions ( which pre patch 4 of them could deny creep, scouting and your third ) You just have to control your hellions a bit better...Zerg has its issues but this isn't one of them, and it hasn't proven to be over powered at all. Just makes the early game less terran favored. This idea that "macro play" should somehow be guaranteed is the true entitlement in this thread, and it's coming squarely from Zerg players. You want to play a drawn out macro game? Learn to hold the all-ins like DRG does. If there weren't any "retarded" 1 base and 2base all-ins, people who just take 5 bases and tech straight to T3 without fear of recourse; that's not an RTS, that's Risk. 4 Hellions denying creep and delaying the Zerg's third at the cost of later Siege Tech, a later Natural (as opposed to 1rax FE) and a lower Marine count is hardly overpowered. You say that but lets look at the TvZ matchup for a second as just one example. Terrans basically have a macro game guarenteed to them if they want it, just do something simple like a 1rax or hellion reactor expand, get quick siege tech if you want to be really safe, and viola! You have a macro game on your hands and there is basically nothing Zerg can do about that except match you in a macro game. Now lets say a Zerg wants to go for a macro game, ok fine you have to be able to hold off whatever all-in the Terran is throwing at you...but first you have to actually figure out if the Terran is all-inning and what type of all-in...welp, turns out slow overlords will never scout anything if a good Terran wants to deny scouting...ok so now you have to flip a coin and try to guess how to hold an all-in that may or may not be coming. Do you see the problem here? If not you probably shouldn't be talking about balance. Frankly, I think ovie speed boost is fantastic and long overdue. I also really like the Queen buff but it's too early to tell if it's too strong or not, all I do know is that the sheer amount of brainless Terran crying makes me really love it especially since I remember back in the day any time Zerg had balance complaints basically every Terran in sight would tell them to shut up and stop QQ'ing. Oh how times have changed.
You really think a 1 rax FE is going to easily hold a Baneling or Roach bust? Hellion openings are blind countered by Roach busts. Stop being so biased.
Again, I'm just going to point out that DRG publicly stated that this buff does absolutely nothing for him, because he already knows how to scout Terrans and react accordingly. This is just helping lazy players who don't know how to hold all-ins.
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On May 18 2012 02:48 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2012 02:45 SmileZerg wrote:
Let me put something in perspective for you guys. Queens only have 8 DPS vs ground targets, compared to the 7 DPS of an unstimmed marine, which costs half the supply and a third of the minerals. Queens also suffer double reduction from armored targets.
You're basically complaining that all early pressure vs Zerg is dead forever because they have what amounts to 2-3 marines in bunkers with 40% HP. Sure there's also transfuse, but it's not as effective as repair, and is extremely unlikely to be available early game if the Z player is keeping up on injects/creep spread.
This buff was nothing more than a small boost to Zerg's defensive capabilities vs extremely early 2rax cheeses or SCV all-ins. It has almost no effect on any other part of the matchup. Learn to play and stop blaming your losses on insignificant stat tweaks, it's embarrassing. If you got 3 Marines with the durability of Bunkers that just sat around your mineral line, nobody would ever open Hellions against you.
That's exactly how it feels. I wish people would stop throwing only DPS out there, because it's only part of the story. Upgrades and health also play a very important role in viability of early game units.
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On May 18 2012 02:48 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2012 02:45 SmileZerg wrote:
Let me put something in perspective for you guys. Queens only have 8 DPS vs ground targets, compared to the 7 DPS of an unstimmed marine, which costs half the supply and a third of the minerals. Queens also suffer double reduction from armored targets.
You're basically complaining that all early pressure vs Zerg is dead forever because they have what amounts to 2-3 marines in bunkers with 40% HP. Sure there's also transfuse, but it's not as effective as repair, and is extremely unlikely to be available early game if the Z player is keeping up on injects/creep spread.
This buff was nothing more than a small boost to Zerg's defensive capabilities vs extremely early 2rax cheeses or SCV all-ins. It has almost no effect on any other part of the matchup. Learn to play and stop blaming your losses on insignificant stat tweaks, it's embarrassing. If you got 3 Marines with the durability of Bunkers that just sat around your mineral line, nobody would ever open Hellions against you.
It's less than half the durability of a bunker, not even counting the marine, and the point of a Hellion opener is not to just run-by into the mineral line unless you're going all-in with double reactored factories, or you see some kind of opening.
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So my conclusions as a Zerg player on the queen range buff:
1) Hellions denying creep are slightly less annoying, but only slightly so. They can still kill the creep tumors, they'll just take a few more hits.
2) Killing workers building bunkers is MUCH easier
3) 11/11 is still hard to hold
4) Early baneling aggression is MUCH easier to deal with since queens can get a few more shots off before they're in your mineral line
5) ZvP is about the same honestly, maybe a little easier to deal with early zealot/stalker harass but I still need to pump lings
People need to stop overreacting. Good play is still rewarded. Some of the cheesier stuff is less cheesy.
This is about at the mid-Masters range.
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On May 18 2012 02:56 SmileZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2012 02:48 Shiori wrote:On May 18 2012 02:45 SmileZerg wrote:
Let me put something in perspective for you guys. Queens only have 8 DPS vs ground targets, compared to the 7 DPS of an unstimmed marine, which costs half the supply and a third of the minerals. Queens also suffer double reduction from armored targets.
You're basically complaining that all early pressure vs Zerg is dead forever because they have what amounts to 2-3 marines in bunkers with 40% HP. Sure there's also transfuse, but it's not as effective as repair, and is extremely unlikely to be available early game if the Z player is keeping up on injects/creep spread.
This buff was nothing more than a small boost to Zerg's defensive capabilities vs extremely early 2rax cheeses or SCV all-ins. It has almost no effect on any other part of the matchup. Learn to play and stop blaming your losses on insignificant stat tweaks, it's embarrassing. If you got 3 Marines with the durability of Bunkers that just sat around your mineral line, nobody would ever open Hellions against you. It's less than half the durability of a bunker, not even counting the marine, and the point of a Hellion opener is not to just run-by into the mineral line unless you're going all-in with double reactored factories, or you see some kind of opening.
The point is that Hellions don't actually do damage to anything that isn't low-health and light. They're also quite fragile on their own and exist primarily for the purpose of safely denying Creep. With the new Queen range, the Queens can literally just walk up and start attacking the Hellions without fear of being kited.
I will never understand why people in this game think they're entitled to be immune to cheese just by playing standard and not reacting at all.
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On May 18 2012 03:16 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2012 02:56 SmileZerg wrote:On May 18 2012 02:48 Shiori wrote:On May 18 2012 02:45 SmileZerg wrote:
Let me put something in perspective for you guys. Queens only have 8 DPS vs ground targets, compared to the 7 DPS of an unstimmed marine, which costs half the supply and a third of the minerals. Queens also suffer double reduction from armored targets.
You're basically complaining that all early pressure vs Zerg is dead forever because they have what amounts to 2-3 marines in bunkers with 40% HP. Sure there's also transfuse, but it's not as effective as repair, and is extremely unlikely to be available early game if the Z player is keeping up on injects/creep spread.
This buff was nothing more than a small boost to Zerg's defensive capabilities vs extremely early 2rax cheeses or SCV all-ins. It has almost no effect on any other part of the matchup. Learn to play and stop blaming your losses on insignificant stat tweaks, it's embarrassing. If you got 3 Marines with the durability of Bunkers that just sat around your mineral line, nobody would ever open Hellions against you. It's less than half the durability of a bunker, not even counting the marine, and the point of a Hellion opener is not to just run-by into the mineral line unless you're going all-in with double reactored factories, or you see some kind of opening. The point is that Hellions don't actually do damage to anything that isn't low-health and light. They're also quite fragile on their own and exist primarily for the purpose of safely denying Creep. With the new Queen range, the Queens can literally just walk up and start attacking the Hellions without fear of being kited. I will never understand why people in this game think they're entitled to be immune to cheese just by playing standard and not reacting at all.
They'll still cancel your tumors though if they're determined. At the very least they'll delay you dropping anything outside of the range of your spines for quite a bit. A few pot shots from a Queen aren't going to dissuade most Terrans nor negate the viability of early game hellions for map control. I still can't take an early 3rd without roaches and they still shut down lings at any ration lower than 5:1 unless your control is terribad.
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On May 18 2012 03:18 GloPikkle wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2012 03:16 Shiori wrote:On May 18 2012 02:56 SmileZerg wrote:On May 18 2012 02:48 Shiori wrote:On May 18 2012 02:45 SmileZerg wrote:
Let me put something in perspective for you guys. Queens only have 8 DPS vs ground targets, compared to the 7 DPS of an unstimmed marine, which costs half the supply and a third of the minerals. Queens also suffer double reduction from armored targets.
You're basically complaining that all early pressure vs Zerg is dead forever because they have what amounts to 2-3 marines in bunkers with 40% HP. Sure there's also transfuse, but it's not as effective as repair, and is extremely unlikely to be available early game if the Z player is keeping up on injects/creep spread.
This buff was nothing more than a small boost to Zerg's defensive capabilities vs extremely early 2rax cheeses or SCV all-ins. It has almost no effect on any other part of the matchup. Learn to play and stop blaming your losses on insignificant stat tweaks, it's embarrassing. If you got 3 Marines with the durability of Bunkers that just sat around your mineral line, nobody would ever open Hellions against you. It's less than half the durability of a bunker, not even counting the marine, and the point of a Hellion opener is not to just run-by into the mineral line unless you're going all-in with double reactored factories, or you see some kind of opening. The point is that Hellions don't actually do damage to anything that isn't low-health and light. They're also quite fragile on their own and exist primarily for the purpose of safely denying Creep. With the new Queen range, the Queens can literally just walk up and start attacking the Hellions without fear of being kited. I will never understand why people in this game think they're entitled to be immune to cheese just by playing standard and not reacting at all. They'll still cancel your tumors though if they're determined. At the very least they'll delay you dropping anything outside of the range of your spines for quite a bit. A few pot shots from a Queen aren't going to dissuade most Terrans nor negate the viability of early game hellions for map control. I still can't take an early 3rd without roaches and they still shut down lings at any ration lower than 5:1 unless your control is terribad.
Um... Queens are basically just early game Roaches right now. They have bigger range, similar durability vs Hellions, and do a little less damage. That's all you need to push the Hellions back. You could barely deny Creep tumors against a crafty Zerg to begin with; now, you can barely deny direct Creep spread, and you definitely can't delay an early third nearly as long as you could before.
Again, it all comes down to the fact that this was utterly unnecessary because Zerg isn't entitled to Creep spread nor a fast third, not should they be able to fend off Hellions with just their macro mechanic.
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EPT
