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Absentia
United Kingdom973 Posts
It's going to obviously change the dynamics of queen vs hellions in the early game but whether that will truly be to the detriment of the game I think we'll have to see. On the other hand, maybe the change will open up some cool zerg openings, (e.g. forgoing spinecrawlers for an extra queen or delaying speedlings in favour of an extra queen). | ||
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KingAce
United States471 Posts
 I find it funny that Terran are complaining about their early harass yet they still have other early game harass options in the banshee, bunker pushes. Protoss and Zerg have no strong early game harassment tools. QQ more please. | ||
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Demorase
136 Posts
You have to be even more insane to think it wasn't needed. | ||
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The Irate Turk
285 Posts
I was watching Select's stream a couple of days ago, and he was playing his little heart out vs a Zerg. He was everywhere at once. He was doing double/ tripple drops simultaneously and causing damage with them.His overall micro was godly (tank deployment, marine spltting, general positioning) and his macro was solid. All the zerg did was spreed creep, get banelings, infestors and brood lords. This is getting ridiculous now, when there is such a skill mismatch. It is not fair to expect someone to play like a god vs 1a. Why does Zerg even HAVE creep spread? It is so ridiculous. Vs any good Zerg they will have the whole map covered whatever you do, UNLESS you are 5x the player they are. Yes MKP or whoever can win TvZ but people without that level of skill REALLY struggle. It seems like Blizzard are saying Hey look, Zerg are this race which should only be played one way. Everything we do about the race design makes it so that they drone up, then mass an army at a moment's notice, as well as have this devastating tech switch. I mean queens only exist because they completely botched with introduction of the roach. So Zerg now needs something that can hit air at Tier 1.5, hey look, we have queens! (I have no problem with larva inject, but they could easily have implemented this in another way) If Terran finds a way to interrupt Zerg from Blizzard's master plan, rather than make getting more Tier 1 units viable (either offensively or defensively), Blizzard instead nerfs early game attacks. People find new ways of delaying Zerg and Blizzard nerfs these too. User was warned for this post | ||
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Squigly
United Kingdom629 Posts
I remember casters saying things like Squirtle is 9-2, and someone else was 10-0 in games lasting over 25 min in PvT. Would be nice to have stats to back that up | ||
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HotCookies
Greece149 Posts
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
On May 10 2012 20:41 The Irate Turk wrote: Man this is so stupid. I was watching Select's stream a couple of days ago, and he was playing his little heart out vs a Zerg. He was everywhere at once. He was doing double/ tripple drops simultaneously and causing damage with them.His overall micro was godly (tank deployment, marine spltting, general positioning) and his macro was solid. All the zerg did was spreed creep, get banelings, infestors and brood lords. This is getting ridiculous now, when there is such a skill mismatch. It is not fair to expect someone to play like a god vs 1a. Why does Zerg even HAVE creep spread? It is so ridiculous. Vs any good Zerg they will have the whole map covered whatever you do, UNLESS you are 5x the player they are. Yes MKP or whoever can win TvZ but people without that level of skill REALLY struggle. It seems like Blizzard are saying Hey look, Zerg are this race which should only be played one way. Everything we do about the race design makes it so that they drone up, then mass an army at a moment's notice, as well as have this devastating tech switch. I mean queens only exist because they completely botched with introduction of the roach. So Zerg now needs something that can hit air at Tier 1.5, hey look, we have queens! (I have no problem with larva inject, but they could easily have implemented this in another way) If Terran finds a way to interrupt Zerg from Blizzard's master plan, rather than make getting more Tier 1 units viable (either offensively or defensively), Blizzard instead nerfs early game attacks. People find new ways of delaying Zerg and Blizzard nerfs these too. You think holding off multiple drops is easier than dropping multiple places? I'm sorry, how many zergs were in the ro8 of gsl this season? and last season? | ||
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Timmsh
Netherlands201 Posts
On May 10 2012 20:48 Clarity_nl wrote: You think holding off multiple drops is easier than dropping multiple places? I'm sorry, how many zergs were in the ro8 of gsl this season? and last season? Just wanted to say the same :-) I think it does not change the match ups as much as some people think. Over reaction is an appropriate response to these kinds of comments :-) | ||
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Maekchu
140 Posts
On May 10 2012 20:28 NoDDiE wrote: but thats the point of the buff being unfair. terran has to make some commitment in terms of cutting eco by getting fact//reactor//hellions to get scouting and deny creep spread. while zerg had to cut some eco too to regain creep spread (by getting roach//spines or mass speedlings). now zerg is perfectly fine with just getting queens, so he can regain creep spread and mantain full eco at same time. and thats why its unfair I'm pretty sure a Reactor hellion opening doesn't cut your economy. It's not like getting out 2-6 hellions is a huge economical investment. And many people follow it up with marine/tank, so it's not like you spend ressources in additional tech, since you are going to need the tech buildings later in your build anyway. Zerg needs to build a Spine and 2 Queens (which is about 450 minerals) to hold the hellions out of their base. With 5 hellions which is 500 minerals, you'll still be able to deny creep and keep the Z contained, while you macro behind this. To me it still seems fairly reasonable. The only difference is that now the Queens can deal back some dmg when they move out and try to poop down some tumors. But I'm going to wait a bit more and see how it actually turns out. But currently my opinion is still, that I think people (especially T) are overreacting a bit. | ||
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Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On May 10 2012 20:41 KingAce wrote: Actually the queen buff is a direct nerf to bunker pushes. So yes the bunker was nerfed this patch. I find it funny that Terran are complaining about their early harass yet they still have other early game harass options in the banshee, bunker pushes. Protoss and Zerg have no strong early game harassment tools. QQ more please. Z has no super early harass, but a 6 pool is always an option as well roaches early on can do some damage. | ||
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Chunhyang
Bangladesh1389 Posts
On May 10 2012 20:43 HotCookies wrote: No changes for TvP late game? In another thread somewhere here, it was shown that Blizzard said that they were ok with TvP lategame as it is. I hate these Terran nerfs It's impossible to play terran with lag. The more they do this, the harder it gets. | ||
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Zoesan
Switzerland141 Posts
On May 10 2012 20:41 Demorase wrote: It's kind of insane it actually took Blizz so long to buff the queens, zerg have been dying to hellion openings left and right for months and months now. The nerf to blue flame didn't accomplish anything except making the upgrade pretty much worthless without fixing the core problem. You have to be even more insane to think it wasn't needed. The reason is that zergs are stupidly greedy. Terran needs early game pressure, because if they don't the zerg will just get 70 drones at 8 minutes and run over them without the terran being able to do jack shit. Sure you could open 1rax into 3 orbital, but even that doesn't compare to a pure macro zerg. Not even close. The queen buff is retarded and effectively does one thing and one thing only: mid game all-ins will be the staple of every TvZ from now on, because without the early pressure a terran cannot win against a good zerg in the long run. So have fun being 1/2 base all-inned every game, because blizzard is too retarded to understand sc2. | ||
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Demorase
136 Posts
On May 10 2012 20:50 Everlong wrote: Seems like we really need to wait for Hots. It kind of makes sense, why whould you balance something now and cause problems in the future where you are going to fix some essential issues with expansion (Battle hellion). Hots will be a completely different game when it comes out. Relying on it to justify and let imbalances go on in current SC2 is foolish, and Blizzard realized it. Hots's purpose is not to fix a broken game, its purpose is to expand on a functional and balanced game to make it more complex and awesome. | ||
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Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
On May 10 2012 20:56 Demorase wrote: Hots will be a completely different game when it comes out. Relying on it to justify and let imbalances go on in current SC2 is foolish, and Blizzard realized it. Hots's purpose is not to fix a broken game, its purpose is to expand on a functional and balanced game to make it more complex and awesome. Ye that's how it should be, but unfortunately with sc2 this is not the case. So we can only hope because they have one good shot with expansion now. | ||
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scypio
Poland2127 Posts
On May 10 2012 20:51 Zoesan wrote: The queen buff is retarded and effectively does one thing and one thing only: mid game all-ins will be the staple of every TvZ from now on, because without the early pressure a terran cannot win against a good zerg in the long run. So have fun being 1/2 base all-inned every game, because blizzard is too retarded to understand sc2. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Since blizz thinks TvP is fine he's going to make another one out of the TvZ. 8-9-10-11-12 minute all-in every game | ||
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amaDeus
Germany205 Posts
On May 10 2012 20:39 bObA wrote: i CANNOT UNDERSTAND THAT AT ALL...... Sincerely that sucks... Protoss and zerg will have better scout to counter terran all ins but terran no... Scan is not used to scout cause one scan costs 300 mineral. And it s very easy for protoss and zerg to hide their tec. [...] Sooo, why dont u build a rax and let it float over the opponents base? rax has 5times more hitpoints, 1 armor and is faster than the old overlord. costs 150minerals + building time - still better than a scan and you can see more. | ||
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gubbstrut
Sweden39 Posts
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Maekchu
140 Posts
On May 10 2012 21:03 amaDeus wrote: Sooo, why dont u build a rax and let it float over the opponents base? rax has 5times more hitpoints, 1 armor and is faster than the old overlord. costs 150minerals + building time - still better than a scan and you can see more. It's even faster than the new Overlord. Sick speed at 0.94 :D | ||
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Demorase
136 Posts
On May 10 2012 20:58 Everlong wrote: Ye that's how it should be, but unfortunately with sc2 this is not the case. So we can only hope because they have one good shot with expansion now. SC2 is getting more balanced with each patch, Blizzard isn't just sitting there saying "just wait for Hots lol", they are clearly working on achieving the best balance possible before Hots comes out. They said it in their patch note, if they feel like some major imbalances emerge in the coming months they will do something about it, they won't just wait for Hots to magically fix everything. If anything Hots will probably cause some major problems at first when it comes out :D | ||
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