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On May 10 2012 19:28 StarBrift wrote:
Any terran that thinks it was fair when they could park 2-4 helions outside creep and completely stop creep spread until they were chased away by units needs a wake up call. Now you will need to commit to atleast 6 helinons and you will actually have to have multitasking to deny creep tumors. 6 helions will still be able to dive into queen attack range and pick up building tumors easily. The only trade off is that you actually have to lose like 20% hp on one of your helions to do it and the fact that you can't spend 200 minerals to nullify creep spread until 8 minutes into the game.
You could creed spread before when hellions were out with good queen control and spinecrawler movement. Most zergs are just to bad to do that.
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The queen range is a good solution. It's alot better than to 50energy straight from spawn to gain better creepspread. That would be insane. Good thing Blizzard thought this through.
I think this looks good. I'm worried about the ovie speed might be a tiny bit too fast - but we'll see
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On May 10 2012 19:25 scypio wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 19:22 Aeceus wrote:
Queen range means zerg are more stable early game, stop complaining. You're not the one that is supposed to do the early / mid game damage on super large maps with tons of defensive features so yeah, I can see that you are quite happy with yet another T nerf. Enjoy your PvZs and ZvZs.
If you're still playing 13 gas helion openings on big maps then it's your fault for not following the pro scene and doing gasless expands, reaper expands or delayed helion expands. The scene has moved away from doing early game damage and into fast expand -> pressure openings and it's 100 times better on these maps.
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On May 10 2012 19:22 Aeceus wrote:
Queen range means zerg are more stable early game, stop complaining.
you mean they can macro even more freely and greedy as they already do? how about some micro?! also this is obviously a buff designed especially for lower leagues, so their excuses for not fixing tvp lategame doesn't count anymore... thx now I may open with 3 OCs every tvz to not be out-macroed...
overlord change seems legit, but the other stuff is just a joke...
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Queen change is a backdoor nerf to bunker imo
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I'm baffled that blizzard are so incompetent that they can't balance their own game whilst still making it enjoyable for all races at both low and high levels. Why do they hate lower level terrans?
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Bunker not changed? Can we take this patch log seriously?
I am SO GLAD about the overlord speed buff and the Queen attack range buff. Queens with 5 range versus ground will become very useful versus some sorts of early pressure.
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On May 10 2012 11:24 SolidMoose wrote:
I still think this patch is totally unnecessary, except MAYBE the overlord speed, That need to fix what actually needs fixing. The queen range isn't even 3-4. It's randomly 3-5.
There's nothing random about it. 5 range is what hellions and marines have and will help zergs better defend against these units without being kited. It really might be helpful.
Also, I'd love to see Destiny do his mass Queen strategy again and see what league he can get to now that they've got this buff lol.
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I find it funny how everyone whines about the 5 range for the Queen saying Zerg don't need to place a spine anymore...
You do know, that whether the Queen have 3 or 5 range. It's damage is crap. So you will still be able to put on some pressure with hellions, but it's a bit harder to micro now.
Also, Blizz did come up with an explanation for making the buff for the Queen.
Zerg at the pro-level are slightly too susceptible to all-in rushes.
-We want to make creep spread a little bit easier to counter hellions in ZvT.
-We want to make the general zerg defense slightly stronger in the early game.
http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/4347080/Call_to_Action_Balance_Testing-03_05_2012#blog
Whether or not you think this explanation is sufficient is up to you though. But they did have some kind of argumentation for the buff.
Anyway, these changes are so small that they are hardly going to have any decisive influence on any match outcomes below master/grandmaster.
So I say, put away your forks and pitches...
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On May 10 2012 19:32 yoigen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 19:28 StarBrift wrote:
Any terran that thinks it was fair when they could park 2-4 helions outside creep and completely stop creep spread until they were chased away by units needs a wake up call. Now you will need to commit to atleast 6 helinons and you will actually have to have multitasking to deny creep tumors. 6 helions will still be able to dive into queen attack range and pick up building tumors easily. The only trade off is that you actually have to lose like 20% hp on one of your helions to do it and the fact that you can't spend 200 minerals to nullify creep spread until 8 minutes into the game. You could creed spread before when hellions were out with good queen control and spinecrawler movement. Most zergs are just to bad to do that.
No. You could spread creep against terrans with bad multitasking IF you took a risk and made 2 spines so that you could move one without getting 6-8 helions dive into your base and end the game. Or could spread your creep to whatever place 1 spine could defend. Then you'd have maybe 8 creep tumors waiting on the edge of your natural ramp / entrance just for those 4 helions to dissapear so you could keep spreading.
If you are counting games where zergs make 2 spines and a good number of lings just to get their creep spread out then yeah, that's what they paid to get creep spread and you should be clearly ahead in econ. Then they mass drone to get to a good econ and you are now clearly ahead in tech / units. Most good zergs play now without lings just to get drone count up to match a terran FE. With that style your creep tumors stop at your natural ramp.
So no. Most zergs weren't too bad to creep spread vs helions. Most terrans are too bad to actually watch their helions and stop creep spread from the zerg. Whenever I get matched up against a progamer terran that opens up helions they will not only stop creep spread but they will most likely scan and stop further spread unless you have 4 queens. Even with 3 queens (1 queen completely devoted to creep spread) terran can deny creep 100% with a very insignificant cost to econ.
Actually the biggest reason why 2 queen, 2 hatch, 2 base muta never ever works vs anything that is not some kind of 1 base 2 star banshee all in is the fact that helion openinigs deny creep so easily. You can not play low econ muta with 2 queens if your creep gets shut down.
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I like it , queen range buff wont really affect pvz , at least mine when I never use stargate.
U mad terran??
User was warned for this post
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queen have melee attack with range 5 ? :O
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Well, the queen change makes more sense, it was always awkward seeing them lash out with their spines and hit something just barely outside normal melee range.
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Well... Hellion-banshee into mech is now gonna be god-awfull...back to low master I go. U_U
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so basically terran can do NOTHING offensive in early game now besides camping and trying outmacro race which cant be outmacroed... gj blizz in killing every terran offensive opening in tvz
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they slowly removing all the micro from SC2 (as if there were too many possibility to micro before), this game will become more and more boring... It is irrecoverable
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On May 10 2012 19:53 StarBrift wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 19:32 yoigen wrote:On May 10 2012 19:28 StarBrift wrote:
Any terran that thinks it was fair when they could park 2-4 helions outside creep and completely stop creep spread until they were chased away by units needs a wake up call. Now you will need to commit to atleast 6 helinons and you will actually have to have multitasking to deny creep tumors. 6 helions will still be able to dive into queen attack range and pick up building tumors easily. The only trade off is that you actually have to lose like 20% hp on one of your helions to do it and the fact that you can't spend 200 minerals to nullify creep spread until 8 minutes into the game. You could creed spread before when hellions were out with good queen control and spinecrawler movement. Most zergs are just to bad to do that. No. You could spread creep against terrans with bad multitasking IF you took a risk and made 2 spines so that you could move one without getting 6-8 helions dive into your base and end the game. Or could spread your creep to whatever place 1 spine could defend. Then you'd have maybe 8 creep tumors waiting on the edge of your natural ramp / entrance just for those 4 helions to dissapear so you could keep spreading. If you are counting games where zergs make 2 spines and a good number of lings just to get their creep spread out then yeah, that's what they paid to get creep spread and you should be clearly ahead in econ. Then they mass drone to get to a good econ and you are now clearly ahead in tech / units. Most good zergs play now without lings just to get drone count up to match a terran FE. With that style your creep tumors stop at your natural ramp. So no. Most zergs weren't too bad to creep spread vs helions. Most terrans are too bad to actually watch their helions and stop creep spread from the zerg. Whenever I get matched up against a progamer terran that opens up helions they will not only stop creep spread but they will most likely scan and stop further spread unless you have 4 queens. Even with 3 queens (1 queen completely devoted to creep spread) terran can deny creep 100% with a very insignificant cost to econ. Actually the biggest reason why 2 queen, 2 hatch, 2 base muta never ever works vs anything that is not some kind of 1 base 2 star banshee all in is the fact that helion openinigs deny creep so easily. You can not play low econ muta with 2 queens if your creep gets shut down.
Really? Being unable to spread creep because you're only building drones is unfair?
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Terran always required the most skill in bw, maybe blizz is trying to approach the same in sc2. Lets see how this will play out
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On May 10 2012 11:54 DarkerThanKuro wrote:
What about us guys who go bio tvz? how the hell am i supposed to open now if reapers are useless and 2 rax is esentially dead?
I'm considering some sort of cc first build into 5 rax mass marine pressure, possibly with stim before banes come out, especially if zergs go greedy as hell like I believe they will now with the new queens. Need to see if I can pull it off and reach the opponents base <9 minutes tho.
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EPT
