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On May 10 2012 18:05 Karak wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 17:59 4ZakeN87 wrote:
Okay I am protoss so I cannot say I care very much about the Queen range but still, I dont really see why everyone is reacting so much on the queen range. Is´t the overlord speed the much greater deal?
Zerg will be able to scout cheese better, get earlier map controll, get overlord into new position, scout earlier and overall all be much better at avoiding being sniped after scouting with overlords. Hell Zerg might not even use drones for scouting after this. Like already now I find it is hard to deny scouting when I go FFE for instance. Now it will be impossible. <<--- This is a big deal. Big buff in my mind.
But everyone complains about the queen having a little longer range. I mean I'm masters NA and I never drone scout in ZvP unless I think something really weird is going on (aka probe doesn't show up at the standard scout timing for an FFE). I haven't seen any other zergs who are drone scouting either, unless they want to hatch block or something. And I don't have a problem figuring out what toss is doing now as is. Gas timings tell basically the whole story. This change will mainly affect ZvT imo
I think he means, that it's already hard to deny scouting after your FFE is done and you put down your tech, or your 6 gates or whatevr.
With this ov speed increase, zerg can even see more and it's even harder to deny the ov seeing your tech
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Queen with 5 Range? Good luck early game TvZ. Hellions borderline useless, Reapers completely useless now. I'm a zerg player and I thought 50 Energy was OP but in comparison to 5 Range queen it was acutally interesting at least. 5 Range Queen is Blizzards way to make the game even more anti micro.
Every zerg is now going to use the already popular 4 Queen late gas opening and will be safe vs pretty much everything.
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lol hellion openings, reapers and marine pokes useless now, great. Don't even need to make roaches anymore.
Wonder how much longer this patching trend will continue.
Anyway, on the bright side, they haven't removed the barracks yet.
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Terran
* Bunker is not changed
This part gave me the lulz ^^
I must say some of these changes seem somewhat rushed, but I hope it will work out. The queen change is the one that I am most insecure about, but then again, I am not pro so I guess my opinion is not as valid keke >P
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Except for the OL speed change, this is a completely pointless update. Observers certainly didn't need a buff, it's difficult enough to get probe any kills with banshees as it is. And from experience zerg don't have any issues defending against things like hellions, especially when the hellions have been scouted, so I don't see any reason for the queen change either. +2 range is a massive buff too.. meh, I'm ditching this game for Dota2 until the hots beta
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I really like the idea of doing more, smaller balance patches instead of waiting for huge ones to be ready. I hope this is a step in the right direction. Also love the fact that they put out the patch on a custom map first. Just to let people play around with it without having to go on some PTR.
Cant see queen range changing much of anything since their dmg is so crap, maybe some ling/bane situations would be nice but the ovie speed is definately a nice change.
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On May 10 2012 13:07 IdrA wrote:
well
at least they had good intentions this time, even if they missed. maybe given another year or two.
ahaha
for my part, a buff is a buff :D
it will make zvz much safer (the overlord change)
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On May 10 2012 18:49 Quotidian wrote:
Except for the OL speed change, this is a completely pointless update. Observers certainly didn't need a buff, it's difficult enough to get probe any kills with banshees as it is. And from experience zerg don't have any issues defending against things like hellions, especially when the hellions have been scouted, so I don't see any reason for the queen change either. +2 range is a massive buff too.. meh, I'm ditching this game for Dota2 until the hots beta
I agree, although I am a little less hopeless 
I really do think that +2 range is fucking insane. I understand zerg has trouble defending late-earlygame counter attacks, but PLUS TWO? Jesus shit that is crazy. I don't really see why they would go that far. I think we will see a lot more ultra/queen compositions, and haha I wonder if we will see mass queen as well lol.
But really, +1 range would have done fine, if that. Personally I liked the way queens worked before anyway.
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Damn queenrange, how will i use my reapers and hellions in TvZ now. Seems to random from blizzard. Other changes are good though
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On May 10 2012 18:49 Quotidian wrote:
I really do think that +2 range is fucking insane. I understand zerg has trouble defending late-earlygame counter attacks, but PLUS TWO? Jesus shit that is crazy. I don't really see why they would go that far. I think we will see a lot more ultra/queen compositions, and haha I wonder if we will see mass queen as well lol.
But really, +1 range would have done fine, if that. Personally I liked the way queens worked before anyway.
If it was any other unit then yeah it would be pretty insane, but you normally only make 2-3 queens and they are vital units to the zerg economy and early game defence it's not just like losing a marine you lose production/creep if you lose one.
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Another overkill with the queen buff, I guess Blizzard really hates reapers. Also hellions... zerg already went for 4 queen double evo block builds on the ladder anyway and these work quite fine, what the hell?
I guess we'll see more of those 200/200 12 minutes roach builds in TvZ now.
The obs upgrade will let em tossess get their immortal / colossus 10 seconds faster, a great treat for 2/3 base turtle play indeed.
TLDR: this sucks.
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Queen range means zerg are more stable early game, stop complaining.
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On May 10 2012 19:22 Aeceus wrote:
Queen range means zerg are more stable early game, stop complaining.
You're not the one that is supposed to do the early / mid game damage on super large maps with tons of defensive features so yeah, I can see that you are quite happy with yet another T nerf. Enjoy your PvZs and ZvZs.
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Any terran that thinks it was fair when they could park 2-4 helions outside creep and completely stop creep spread until they were chased away by units needs a wake up call. Now you will need to commit to atleast 6 helinons and you will actually have to have multitasking to deny creep tumors. 6 helions will still be able to dive into queen attack range and pick up building tumors easily. The only trade off is that you actually have to lose like 20% hp on one of your helions to do it and the fact that you can't spend 200 minerals to nullify creep spread until 8 minutes into the game.
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Queen range sounds reasonable, though it may force a shift from hellion openers in TvZ (not that I mind at all.) TvP still left as a broken matchup, but I guess my hopes for a good game died with the "assymetric balance is good".
I'd like to use my last line for a final farewell to the reaper that we all loved and cherished.
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No don't you see Queens are going to destroy marines and hellions and marauders and siege tanks now. Just mass queens everywhere, man, you have no idea. And they can heal each other too! That's like crazy talk man.
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On May 10 2012 12:11 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:
Queen and observer change are probably the worst changes I've seen in SC2.
Even change for blue flame upgrade icon from red to blue was better.
That one made me laugh
I don't agree though. The observer change makes a lot of sense but I don't know why the queen range is really necessary.
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I like the overlord move speed, not sure about the other changes...
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EPT
