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Every terran user isn't happy unless there's at least 50 percent Terran in the gsl, and at least 3 in the semi finals.
Funny how when there was 7 terrans outta 8 player left in the gsl, no one was complaining.
If mvp wins this gsl, it's because he's better, but if a toss wins, it's because their OP.
Not for me. I think just to play... not to watch. And thees changes sux for my entire play (underline my).
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On May 10 2012 17:50 Blaz3k wrote:Mhmmmm... I wonder how many roach warrens we see from now on in ZvT 
Yeah... Bliizzards only fuckin initiative since this game has been out is to narrow the possibilities of all fucking races. Killin creativity, Blizz trademark.
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I think the biggest change that no one is talking about is what's going to happen in ZvZ. 15 hatch will become much better with the overlord speed to scout if the opponent is expanding without losing it to a queen. And the queen range is actually huge against ling runbys and to snipe banelings. I don't see double queen and spine follow-ups to a 15 hatch ever losing to pressure from a 14/14 now.
This might be bad, we might see an increase in 9-10 pools if more people 15 hatch on the ladder, wait and see.
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On May 10 2012 17:48 Douillos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 17:47 Umpteen wrote:
I have a question.
Quite a few Terrans are complaining about the Zerg changes on the grounds that it narrows the window they feel they have for winning the game. The prevailing attitude seems to be that late game Terran is too weak, something deduced from the fact that Zergs do most of their winning in the late game.
I see it a bit differently. I don't think Zergs win more in the late game because the Terran late game is too weak. I think they win more often in the late game because it takes a winning Zerg a lot longer to end the game.
What I mean is, if a Terran gets ahead in the early game, that game is over really quickly. If the Zerg gets ahead, the Terran can turtle up and force a longer game. The same applies in the mid-game: Zerg collapses quickly if they get behind, whereas a Terran can dig in and drag the game out longer. If he plays properly the Zerg should still win, but there's rarely that sudden 'Oh, here's a drop and his lings are still building; that's game' overbalance into victory you get when a Terran pulls ahead.
To put it another way: I'm not convinced Terran wins more in the mid game or loses more in the late game. I think that's just when the games tend to end, favourably or otherwise.
Anyone else think this way? Interesting but off topic no?
Maybe. I didn't think so, though, because it speaks directly to complaints from Terrans about losing a chunk of 'their chance to win' because of the queen range buff.
Eh; I was only curious. Think nothing of it.
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Looks like i'm going pure mech in TvZ from now on just as I always have. Early rax pressure is done for
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On May 10 2012 17:29 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 17:26 Corgi Apocalypse wrote:On May 10 2012 17:15 Femari wrote:
But they're not the best race overall Yeah, sure. April winrates for Korea, Terran worst winrate of all 3 races. Protoss best winrate. GSL, 3 Protoss in the Ro4, 5 in Ro8. If you honestly think Protoss isn't the best race right now you are smoking really good shit.
2012 stats:
TvP: 135-122 (52.5%)
TvZ: 97-85 (53.3%)
PvZ: 89-64 (58.2%)
Overall(non-mirrors):
T: 232-207 (52.8%)
P: 211-199 (51.5%)
Z: 149-186 (44.5%)
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I am interested to see my new queen I shall add a some more vs hellions :D. Hoppefully this doesnt break zvt the fact that i cant be as greedy as in zvp made the matchup harder but now it might be gone in zvt and i can 3 base vs hellions :D
On May 10 2012 17:51 NeonFox wrote:
I think the biggest change that no one is talking about is what's going to happen in ZvZ. 15 hatch will become much better with the overlord speed to scout if the opponent is expanding without losing it to a queen. And the queen range is actually huge against ling runbys and to snipe banelings. I don't see double queen and spine follow-ups to a 15 hatch ever losing to pressure from a 14/14 now.
This might be bad, we might see an increase in 9-10 pools if more people 15 hatch on the ladder, wait and see.
This is interesting after my promotion I realized my hatch first build can be beaten to be honest ever zerg is 10 pooling me in diamond. Before i was killing (up to a 75% win rate vs zerg) everyone bye going hatch first into mass spine muta ... but okay this was in platinum I hope I can go now hatch first even more successful
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On May 10 2012 17:49 rEalGuapo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 17:44 Orracle wrote:On May 10 2012 17:43 Corgi Apocalypse wrote:On May 10 2012 17:29 Femari wrote:
If you honestly think Protoss isn't the best race right now you are smoking really good shit. Not even close, Terran > Zerg > Protoss right now. Terran can transition out of anything and be fine, Zerg becomes very deadly if not dealt with early, and Protoss is unstoppable on three base as well as has some nice two base timings. Would you mind posting some statistics? Korea results last month showed Terran behind, not to mention recent GSLs. GSLs???Terran is by far the most played race in Code S then Zerg then Protoss, just because THIS IS THE FIRST GSL EVER that has a guaranteed Protoss in the finals doesn't make them OP. How about those 5 GSLs in a row where there was a guaranateed Terran in the finals? That was because of pure skill ofcourse... Just because Protoss do not complain about imbalance that much should not automatically make them the target of the other races... This is pissing me off so hard.
Theres a reason people whine. Because people always whine. Z and P whined as hard as Terran if not more during GomTvT and eventually T was nerfed. Now T whines and hopefully T gets buffed. And then P or Z will whine. And the game will keep going on in cycles.
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On May 10 2012 17:49 rEalGuapo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 17:44 Orracle wrote:On May 10 2012 17:43 Corgi Apocalypse wrote:On May 10 2012 17:29 Femari wrote:
If you honestly think Protoss isn't the best race right now you are smoking really good shit. Not even close, Terran > Zerg > Protoss right now. Terran can transition out of anything and be fine, Zerg becomes very deadly if not dealt with early, and Protoss is unstoppable on three base as well as has some nice two base timings. Would you mind posting some statistics? Korea results last month showed Terran behind, not to mention recent GSLs. GSLs??? Terran is by far the most played race in Code S then Zerg then Protoss, just because THIS IS THE FIRST GSL EVER that has a guaranteed Protoss in the finals doesn't make them OP. How about those 5 GSLs in a row where there was a guaranateed Terran in the finals? That was because of pure skill ofcourse... Just because Protoss do not complain about imbalance that much should not automatically make them the target of the other races... This is pissing me off so hard.
I'm pretty sure Protoss is the most represented Ro8 race in GSL history bud.
On May 10 2012 17:52 NHY wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 17:29 Femari wrote:On May 10 2012 17:26 Corgi Apocalypse wrote:On May 10 2012 17:15 Femari wrote:
But they're not the best race overall Yeah, sure. April winrates for Korea, Terran worst winrate of all 3 races. Protoss best winrate. GSL, 3 Protoss in the Ro4, 5 in Ro8. If you honestly think Protoss isn't the best race right now you are smoking really good shit. 2012 stats: TvP: 135-122 (52.5%) TvZ: 97-85 (53.3%) PvZ: 89-64 (58.2%) Overall(non-mirrors): T: 232-207 (52.8%) P: 211-199 (51.5%) Z: 149-186 (44.5%)
Why are you bringing up stats that include irrelevant months?
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Okay I am protoss so I cannot say I care very much about the Queen range but still, I dont really see why everyone is reacting so much on the queen range. Is´t the overlord speed the much greater deal?
Zerg will be able to scout cheese better, get earlier map controll, get overlord into new position, scout earlier and overall all be much better at avoiding being sniped after scouting with overlords. Hell Zerg might not even use drones for scouting after this. Like already now I find it is hard to deny scouting when I go FFE for instance. Now it will be impossible. <<--- This is a big deal. Big buff in my mind.
But everyone complains about the queen having a little longer range.
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I think people are not understanding where Terran's are coming from. Really we dont mind that Less terrans are winning the GSL. I for myself, as an ex Zerg, find it really refreshing.
The main problem is that for the past year Blizz has been adressing problems not to balance the game ONLY at pro level, but mostly at all levels. These changes are an example of that. Do you think this will change parting of DRG's game?
No its gonna change Master and lower people's game. Its gonna make it that much easier for them. And terrans dont understand why nowadays people use pro level tournaments statistics to tell them they dont need a buff.
Terrans want a buff because its so hard compared to the other races IF you want to do something else than all in.
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On May 10 2012 17:55 Femari wrote:
Why are you bringing up stats that include irrelevant months?
only trust statistics you faked yourself ...
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I guess I should be happy to get a few buffs but they seem pretty situational to me.
Queen buff only works if Terran decides to actually try and suicide their helions into your base which already is kinda a bad idea. Queens are for the most part not out before a bunker could be done anyway so you still have to stop it with drones and lings.
Overlord speed is nice, but you are still not gonna get past a patroling marine with that movement increase. It could help you travel slightly further on some maps where a safety spot is just the right distance away, but again this is very situational.
Faster observer I kinda like. It might help with those thin timings where the dts / cloack banshees come into your base as your obs has left and is entering the opponents base.
But generally everything that can give a race more map awareness and a slightly safer early game is a good thing in my opinion.
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On May 10 2012 17:59 4ZakeN87 wrote:
Okay I am protoss so I cannot say I care very much about the Queen range but still, I dont really see why everyone is reacting so much on the queen range. Is´t the overlord speed the much greater deal?
Zerg will be able to scout cheese better, get earlier map controll, get overlord into new position, scout earlier and overall all be much better at avoiding being sniped after scouting with overlords. Hell Zerg might not even use drones for scouting after this. Like already now I find it is hard to deny scouting when I go FFE for instance. Now it will be impossible. <<--- This is a big deal. Big buff in my mind.
But everyone complains about the queen having a little longer range.
I mean I'm masters NA and I never drone scout in ZvP unless I think something really weird is going on (aka probe doesn't show up at the standard scout timing for an FFE). I haven't seen any other zergs who are drone scouting either, unless they want to hatch block or something.
And I don't have a problem figuring out what toss is doing now as is. Gas timings tell basically the whole story. This change will mainly affect ZvT imo
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On May 10 2012 18:03 Dralin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 17:55 Femari wrote:
Why are you bringing up stats that include irrelevant months? only trust statistics you faked yourself ...
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/898Ww.png)
Come again?
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No
Way
Starting sc2 again. This is just what I wanted, blizzard! #UDIDIT!!
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On May 10 2012 17:13 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 17:09 FabledIntegral wrote:On May 10 2012 16:45 Ballistixz wrote:On May 10 2012 16:44 FabledIntegral wrote:On May 10 2012 16:41 Ballistixz wrote:On May 10 2012 16:37 akalarry wrote:On May 10 2012 16:34 Ballistixz wrote:On May 10 2012 16:22 Femari wrote:On May 10 2012 16:19 Ballistixz wrote:On May 10 2012 16:15 KivTM wrote:
[quote]
hellions kill queens even slower lol. so whats your point? you do realize that hellions main purpose is to NOT kill a queen right? why try to kill a queen with hellions? there main purpose is to deny creep spread, stop zerg from taking a fast 3rd, clear watch towers, gain map control, and etc. all of which they are still able to do even with the buff to queens.... On May 10 2012 16:19 Femari wrote:
[quote]
hellions do less damage to queens bud again, whats your point? My point is to show you that the queen's DPS is irrelevant. queen DPS has always been irrelevant and so has hellions... u dont kill a queen with a hellion unless the zerg is awful anyway. the new range buff is simply to fend off a low number of hellions unless the zerg makes a shit ton of queens. why? do people have such a hard time defending against a low number of hellions that blizzard needs to buff the queen? i never have trouble when people reactor hellion expand and use a few hellions to deny creep. also isn't blizzard's main goal to balance at the highest level? tvz is statistically incredibly even. why change it? because its quite obvious how strong terrans early game is and how weak zergs early game is. blizz has been wanting to do something about zergs early game for over a year now (the overlord buff in particular) and now they are finally addressing it without having to nerf terrans early game directly. calm down, the buff isnt OP in the slightest and there is no reason to even complain about it. You're clearly in the minority thinking this. clearly, because the majority consists of terrans complaining about how hellions are now "useless" TvZ No terrans are on board with it. Many people that play Zerg are against it, including myself. You clearly consist of the minority. so far, if u are a zerg, u and maybe one other zerg are the only one saying ur against it. and that other zerg is against it only because it hurts zvz lmao. and no, im not biased. i like the change. what i have a problem with is the sheer amount of crying ive seen in this thread about hellions being useless TvZ. how can u ignore those post and then claim that i am biased? u would have to first consider yourself biased. just because u are a zerg defending a terran does not mean u are not biased. if anything u are completely oblivious to what this patch actually does for zerg.
It had a clear negative sentiment in the community last time it was polled.
It doesn't just "stop hellions," although it does that as well.
It also stops cold reaper openings, 2rax (nonallin), 2gate pressure (macro oriented), helps significantly vs stalker pokes (1base), helps Zerg COMPLETELY deny scouting with workers, and to top it off, eliminates those particular opening build orders so the Zerg doesn't even have to worry about them.
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On May 10 2012 17:55 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 17:49 rEalGuapo wrote:On May 10 2012 17:44 Orracle wrote:On May 10 2012 17:43 Corgi Apocalypse wrote:On May 10 2012 17:29 Femari wrote:
If you honestly think Protoss isn't the best race right now you are smoking really good shit. Not even close, Terran > Zerg > Protoss right now. Terran can transition out of anything and be fine, Zerg becomes very deadly if not dealt with early, and Protoss is unstoppable on three base as well as has some nice two base timings. Would you mind posting some statistics? Korea results last month showed Terran behind, not to mention recent GSLs. GSLs??? Terran is by far the most played race in Code S then Zerg then Protoss, just because THIS IS THE FIRST GSL EVER that has a guaranteed Protoss in the finals doesn't make them OP. How about those 5 GSLs in a row where there was a guaranateed Terran in the finals? That was because of pure skill ofcourse... Just because Protoss do not complain about imbalance that much should not automatically make them the target of the other races... This is pissing me off so hard. I'm pretty sure Protoss is the most represented Ro8 race in GSL history bud. Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 17:52 NHY wrote:On May 10 2012 17:29 Femari wrote:On May 10 2012 17:26 Corgi Apocalypse wrote:On May 10 2012 17:15 Femari wrote:
But they're not the best race overall Yeah, sure. April winrates for Korea, Terran worst winrate of all 3 races. Protoss best winrate. GSL, 3 Protoss in the Ro4, 5 in Ro8. If you honestly think Protoss isn't the best race right now you are smoking really good shit. 2012 stats: TvP: 135-122 (52.5%) TvZ: 97-85 (53.3%) PvZ: 89-64 (58.2%) Overall(non-mirrors): T: 232-207 (52.8%) P: 211-199 (51.5%) Z: 149-186 (44.5%) Why are you bringing up stats that include irrelevant months?
Typical Terran babble... doesn't even take the 1 second required to actually back up his FALSE claims with any data whatsoever!
1 - Terran is by FAR the most ever represented race in Ro8 (code S)
Protoss for the first time ever have 5 in the Ro8 this season.
Terran had 5 in Ro8 in August 2011, once again 5 in November 2011 and actually had 6! in Ro8 for October.
This isn't even counting the amount of times they had 4 in the Ro8 which would once again outnumber the other races.
Do some research.
2 - He should have added more months. What he added wasn't enough. 1.4.2 had a HUGE buff for Protoss and a nerf to Terran (ghost emp radius) so he should have added stats from back then as well (1.4.2 was November 2011)
For 1.4.2 TvP was 58.9 % even after a HUGE buff to Protoss and nerf to Terran so that would INCREASE the previous mentioned stats.
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FINALLY a buff for the obs
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EPT
