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On May 10 2012 17:01 n0ise wrote:
i think ideally zerg should be able to defend anything with queen-only up to the 15-min mark when the t2/t3 3-base pump can begin
You mean so it can get to the composition needed to auto-win vT?
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hellion opener is still viable - Queens fucking suck against hellions either way that the range buff wouldnt be much on an issue - its still the spines and mass lings or roaches that can hold off hellion openers, not queens (unless a wall of them 3-4)
On May 10 2012 17:05 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 17:01 n0ise wrote:
i think ideally zerg should be able to defend anything with queen-only up to the 15-min mark when the t2/t3 3-base pump can begin You mean so it can get to the composition needed to auto-win vT?
and P LOL
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more balanced : Add colosus make in warpgate in 1 second , utralisk in min 3 , and terran sure first marine min 30 :-) Blizzard don't like terran
User was warned for this post
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On May 10 2012 17:07 HamachiGO wrote:
more balanced : Add colosus make in warpgate in 1 second , utralisk in min 3 , and terran sure first marine min 30 :-) Blizzard don't like terran
blizz dont like terran?
u must have no clue who dustin browder is.
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On May 10 2012 16:45 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 16:44 FabledIntegral wrote:On May 10 2012 16:41 Ballistixz wrote:On May 10 2012 16:37 akalarry wrote:On May 10 2012 16:34 Ballistixz wrote:On May 10 2012 16:22 Femari wrote:On May 10 2012 16:19 Ballistixz wrote:On May 10 2012 16:15 KivTM wrote:On May 10 2012 16:03 Ballistixz wrote:
i find it kinda sad that the FIRST thing ppl do with new balance changes is whine there cute lil eyes out instead of THINKING of new builds they can counteract this with.
use your head ppl and evolve. the game and its meta has always evolved with new balance changes. stop crying and waiting for a pro player to show u the light and do it ur damn selves -_-
"hellion openers are dead now"
boy, will these ppl feel stupid once they see pro/top level terrans still going hellion builds and then copy directly off of them.
tip: queens kill hellions stupidly slow. hellions kill queens even slower lol. so whats your point? you do realize that hellions main purpose is to NOT kill a queen right? why try to kill a queen with hellions? there main purpose is to deny creep spread, stop zerg from taking a fast 3rd, clear watch towers, gain map control, and etc. all of which they are still able to do even with the buff to queens.... On May 10 2012 16:19 Femari wrote:On May 10 2012 16:16 Ballistixz wrote:On May 10 2012 16:14 SgtCoDFish wrote:
I'd love for someone to explain how hellions are now "useless" in TvZ
Hellions have 90HP. Queens have an attack power of 4x2, to give 8 if the zerg doesn't micro the queen halfway through the attack. We'll assume zerg's not doing that.
It still takes 12 shots from a queen to kill a single hellion. The queen attacks once every second. There are 4 hellions.
Hellions shouldn't be in range of queens when creep isn't being spread, which occurs once every 30 to 40 seconds; they should be their attack range away from the edge of the creep. When creep is being spread (or if a drone comes out to take a quick third) hellions should be darting in and out to kill or force cancels on tumours.
This patch doesn't change any of the above AT ALL. It just means that hellions will take some extra shots where they wouldn't have before. The micro involved here is pulling back damaged hellions if you really want to engage a queen. But you shouldn't be doing that.
So what does the patch affect with regards to hellion openers? Barely anything; hellions are still a hell (no terrible pun intended) of a lot faster, so any attempts by zerg to spread creep greedily are just as denied as they were before. Darting in and popping a tumour is still the same as it was. There will be a "dance" between hellions and queens to deny creep, but queens aren't going to start spearing hellions and snapping them in half. Hellions will still also deny any attempt to take a third until roaches or lings are out to fend them off.
Hellions are slightly worse, but will still be able to do their job... every time something is nerfed even a little, hordes of people seem to say it's now useless. hellions arnt useless, ppl are just overreacting like babies once again... they will get over it in less then a week once they find out how fail queen DPS truly is. hellions do less damage to queens bud again, whats your point? My point is to show you that the queen's DPS is irrelevant. queen DPS has always been irrelevant and so has hellions... u dont kill a queen with a hellion unless the zerg is awful anyway. the new range buff is simply to fend off a low number of hellions unless the zerg makes a shit ton of queens. why? do people have such a hard time defending against a low number of hellions that blizzard needs to buff the queen? i never have trouble when people reactor hellion expand and use a few hellions to deny creep. also isn't blizzard's main goal to balance at the highest level? tvz is statistically incredibly even. why change it? because its quite obvious how strong terrans early game is and how weak zergs early game is. blizz has been wanting to do something about zergs early game for over a year now (the overlord buff in particular) and now they are finally addressing it without having to nerf terrans early game directly. calm down, the buff isnt OP in the slightest and there is no reason to even complain about it. You're clearly in the minority thinking this. clearly, because the majority consists of terrans complaining about how hellions are now "useless" TvZ
No terrans are on board with it.
Many people that play Zerg are against it, including myself.
You clearly consist of the minority.
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On May 10 2012 17:08 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 17:07 HamachiGO wrote:
more balanced : Add colosus make in warpgate in 1 second , utralisk in min 3 , and terran sure first marine min 30 :-) Blizzard don't like terran blizz dont like terran? u must have no clue who dustin browder is.
Last time Terran was buffed was Sept 2011, and they've nerfed Terran 5 times in that period.
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Laughed at bunker change:D
I dont really understand Queen change, OV change is good though
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On May 10 2012 11:46 biaxiong wrote:
Queens can kite Zealots now?
Could before on creep anyway
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On May 10 2012 17:09 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 16:45 Ballistixz wrote:On May 10 2012 16:44 FabledIntegral wrote:On May 10 2012 16:41 Ballistixz wrote:On May 10 2012 16:37 akalarry wrote:On May 10 2012 16:34 Ballistixz wrote:On May 10 2012 16:22 Femari wrote:On May 10 2012 16:19 Ballistixz wrote:On May 10 2012 16:15 KivTM wrote:On May 10 2012 16:03 Ballistixz wrote:
i find it kinda sad that the FIRST thing ppl do with new balance changes is whine there cute lil eyes out instead of THINKING of new builds they can counteract this with.
use your head ppl and evolve. the game and its meta has always evolved with new balance changes. stop crying and waiting for a pro player to show u the light and do it ur damn selves -_-
"hellion openers are dead now"
boy, will these ppl feel stupid once they see pro/top level terrans still going hellion builds and then copy directly off of them.
tip: queens kill hellions stupidly slow. hellions kill queens even slower lol. so whats your point? you do realize that hellions main purpose is to NOT kill a queen right? why try to kill a queen with hellions? there main purpose is to deny creep spread, stop zerg from taking a fast 3rd, clear watch towers, gain map control, and etc. all of which they are still able to do even with the buff to queens.... On May 10 2012 16:19 Femari wrote:On May 10 2012 16:16 Ballistixz wrote:
[quote]
hellions arnt useless, ppl are just overreacting like babies once again... they will get over it in less then a week once they find out how fail queen DPS truly is. hellions do less damage to queens bud again, whats your point? My point is to show you that the queen's DPS is irrelevant. queen DPS has always been irrelevant and so has hellions... u dont kill a queen with a hellion unless the zerg is awful anyway. the new range buff is simply to fend off a low number of hellions unless the zerg makes a shit ton of queens. why? do people have such a hard time defending against a low number of hellions that blizzard needs to buff the queen? i never have trouble when people reactor hellion expand and use a few hellions to deny creep. also isn't blizzard's main goal to balance at the highest level? tvz is statistically incredibly even. why change it? because its quite obvious how strong terrans early game is and how weak zergs early game is. blizz has been wanting to do something about zergs early game for over a year now (the overlord buff in particular) and now they are finally addressing it without having to nerf terrans early game directly. calm down, the buff isnt OP in the slightest and there is no reason to even complain about it. You're clearly in the minority thinking this. clearly, because the majority consists of terrans complaining about how hellions are now "useless" TvZ No terrans are on board with it. Many people that play Zerg are against it, including myself. You clearly consist of the minority.
so far, if u are a zerg, u and maybe one other zerg are the only one saying ur against it. and that other zerg is against it only because it hurts zvz lmao.
and no, im not biased. i like the change. what i have a problem with is the sheer amount of crying ive seen in this thread about hellions being useless TvZ. how can u ignore those post and then claim that i am biased? u would have to first consider yourself biased.
just because u are a zerg defending a terran does not mean u are not biased. if anything u are completely oblivious to what this patch actually does for zerg.
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On May 10 2012 17:07 HamachiGO wrote:
more balanced : Add colosus make in warpgate in 1 second , utralisk in min 3 , and terran sure first marine min 30 :-) Blizzard don't like terran
Which is why nerfs to Terran have been needed to be made.
Terran will still be the best race overall, even after this patch. Don't worry.
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On May 10 2012 17:14 Corgi Apocalypse wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 17:07 HamachiGO wrote:
more balanced : Add colosus make in warpgate in 1 second , utralisk in min 3 , and terran sure first marine min 30 :-) Blizzard don't like terran Which is why nerfs to Terran have been needed to be made. Terran will still be the best race overall, even after this patch. Don't worry.
But they're not the best race overall
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Wow, this is just like Facebook. Every time anything changes people rage about it, then get used to it and it ends up not being such a huge deal most of the time.
Terran still can keep map control with hellions, just not so easily directly outside a zergs natural. Currently hellions almost contain a zerg instead of just having map control.
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lol terran bunker not changed...is that really valuable news?
EDIT: oh its a joke haha
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People miss that "Bunker is not changed" is actually a buff for terran
Overlord and Queen buffs are cool
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On May 10 2012 17:12 Deadstrider wrote:
Laughed at bunker change:D
I dont really understand Queen change, OV change is good though
too many Z died to reactor FE or gasless FE into reactor helion, with banshee followup, so they make it way too easy for them to defend it now.
On May 10 2012 17:15 Polter
Terran still can keep map control with hellions, just not so easily directly outside a zergs natural. Currently hellions almost contain a zerg instead of just having map control.
geist- wrote:
that is just not true, if the zerg is too greedy, and wont invest into some lings or roaches, he is fine with the contain.
u see many zergs, get earlie 3-5 roaches, to force the helions back.
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makes dt builds in PvP less viable which is a shame as its actually a moderately solid zeal archon expand against robo map dependant, will be nice for getting obs before first Immortal in pvz after a FFE and help vs an early banshee pvt i guess though. Also handy for late game ghosts who tend to kill obs a lot when you want to be building collosus. All around not too bad.
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Everytime I see protoss/zerg buff and/or terran nerf I wonder to myself, is the real balance of the game such that I don't deserve a bunch of my wins? The idea behind balance is to allow players of equal skill to be equally matched vs other races. I can rip through other terrans in tvt much more easily than I can win against a turtling protoss/greedy zerg.
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On May 10 2012 17:16 MyLastSerenade wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 17:12 Deadstrider wrote:
Laughed at bunker change:D
I dont really understand Queen change, OV change is good though too many Z died to reactor FE or gasless FE into reactor helion, with banshee followup, so they make it way too easy for them to defend it now. Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 17:15 Polter
Terran still can keep map control with hellions, just not so easily directly outside a zergs natural. Currently hellions almost contain a zerg instead of just having map control.
geist- wrote: that is just not true, if the zerg is too greedy, and wont invest into some lings or roaches, he is fine with the contain. u see many zergs, get earlie 3-5 roaches, to force the helions back.
hellions forcing roaches is not a good thing fyi. for me personally id MUCH rather save that gas for a quicker upgrade. this new buff to queens allows me to go for that super quick +1 to armor for my lings or a quick lair which i base my build around. another reason i like it so much. having to make roaches is just bad imo.
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I don't know if this has been mentioned, but how will it affects replay? If there is no version change, how will the client know to which subpatch the replay corresponds? By looking at the date? Or will there be a version change without the need to go through a patch process?
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On May 10 2012 17:15 Poltergeist- wrote:
Terran still can keep map control with hellions, just not so easily directly outside a zergs natural. Currently hellions almost contain a zerg instead of just having map control.
other guy wrote
that is just not true, if the zerg is too greedy, and wont invest into some lings or roaches, he is fine with the contain.
u see many zergs, get earlie 3-5 roaches, to force the helions back.
Right, but the queen buff doesn't make any difference if the zerg is gonna go roach. People are complaining that the queen buff makes hellion openers worthless. I am just saying that it won't really make a difference (imo) except that terran just has to be more careful with hellions and can't contain so hard.
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EPT
