EPTI am severely disappointed.
Patch 1.4.3.2 - Page 12
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
I am severely disappointed. | ||
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Lovely_US
United States94 Posts
1. Helion expand. The most popular TvZ opening. It helps develop your tech to factory pretty quickly, you get a fast expansion, you get map control, you deny tumors, you deny a third base, and you get some early defense from like a random 20 ling attack. It's also a very easy build to transition out of and applies good early game pressure to a zerg and forces them to stay contained on 2 base until they make roaches or lots of lings (I don't think anyone will disagree with this... maybe add more if I'm forgetting something). What the Queen range will do: Hellions and Queens both will have the same range, which means on or off creep if a helion attacks it will get hit by the queen (unless it splashes another unit which then hits the queen, as I believe the splash range of helions is 6). Terrans are saying that you cannot deny creep tumors anymore nor can you deny a third. This isn't entirely true. Yes it will be much harder. Your helions will now take probably an extra 1-2 hits every time they would try to deny a tumor. They also can't harass Queens off creep as easily. However, the point of denying creep spread is to snipe tumors (yes easier said than done, which is why I said it should only affect lower levels). The point of the helion should not have been to kill Queens, but on the lower levels thats what often happened if a player wasn't paying attention and his queen got aggroed. Otherwise, most Terrans just used the helion to deny tumors and the third. So long as the terrans continue to snipe tumors as they generally do now, zerg creep spread is still limited. The only difference is that you will get hit a couple extra times by the tumor laying queen. However, queens still do just 8 damage to helions per attack, which when you have 4 helions isn't that much damage. It just means that now Terran helions won't be randomly killing queens and will be reduced to their initial job of denying the tumors and third (and possibly being forced back for a repair if the Terran keeps his helions alive for that long). So I don't believe that this buff will completely remove the Helion expand: what it will do is force Terrans to be more diligent with their helion micro, but it won't remove the utility of a helion at all. If anything, the only thing a Queen range buff will do is help against early blue flame hellion openings. 2. The Reaper Expand Another good fast expand strategy, the Reaper expand allows a terran to get a good scout of the entire zerg's main (to see if he's preparing for an all in) and possibly harrass drones a little bit until a queen pops out. The reaper also is good at killing early lings on the towers to keep map control until ling speed is done. What the Queen range will do: Queens were already the zerg's way to protect himself from reaper harass. The only catch was off creep with like 4 reapers a Zerg could lose his queen. Now, that most likely won't happen ever again, but since when did pro players and the highest level players go for 4-5 reaper openings? The most common number is probably between 2 and 3 (and often times just 1). However, what I see that Terrans are misunderstanding is the use of the reaper. The reaper isn't supposed to kill drones. If you do thats a bonus. The point of the reaper is similar to the helion: map control. Denying lings at towers and denying a super fast third base are both still viable with reaper openings, just now 4-5 reaper openings aren't as hard to deal with as zerg (which were hard to deal with because we wouldn't be able to scout it very easily and 4-5 reapers just destroy lings and queens off creep. In addition, Reapers will still be able to scout as they are still very fast units. 3. Bunker Rushes and what Queens will do to them: This is what I think the main reason of the queen buff is. With a bunker Marines have a range of 6 and reapers have a range of 5.5. As a result, a queen would have to walk 3 "unit spaces" towards a bunker before it could even be hit, which mean the queen lost at least 1/3 of it's life already before it even got a hit off. Moreover, bunker rushes were extremely cost effective: kill 1 queen, 4 lings, and 1 drone and you've already done 300 minerals worth of damage, the cost of 4 marines and a bunker. What often happens in bunker rushes is that the zerg makes more than 4 lings, which means his drone count is lower, which means you already have done indirect damage that sets a zerg so far back he's essentially dead. Now again at the higher levels zergs know how to handle bunker rushes easily, which means this should have the strongest impact at the lower levels. Where this will have a large impact are the 3 bunker rushes on maps such as Shakuras Plateau. I think everyone will agree with me when I say building 3 bunkers (not finishing them, just getting to the point of building them) should not win you the game (mostly because it takes no skill to build 3 bunkers). Queens with their range of 3 had to get up right next to the bunker to attack the scv on the opposite side of the bunker, and with marines behind just out of range of the queen they could snipe the queen easily. Now, with the range of 5, queens can either step back farther before attacking the scv and not die as quickly or attack the marines themselves to try and hold off the bunker contain. This is just my long 2 cents. I don't think the queen range is going to make that big of a difference except for all-in cheesy builds, which in my opinion were somewhat unfair because zergs don't have strong 1 base builds (7rr is probably the strongest and can be held off by a terran on 2 bases) and generally can't clean up the pushes cost effectively enough without scouting (probably why they did the ovie buff as well, but on large maps they still can go undetected). | ||
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CaptTerrible
United States72 Posts
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dronefarm
United States260 Posts
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j1nzo
Germany367 Posts
also note how minor the changes are, compared to all the previous updates. this just shows how good the balance is over all (no i'm not talking about tvp code s- that is just the top of the ice berg, so stop complaining (-.-')). gj blizzard | ||
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NoGasfOu
United States1117 Posts
What do they mean "bunker is not changed"? If there's no change, why state it? | ||
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Tobblish
Sweden6404 Posts
On May 10 2012 12:29 AirbladeOrange wrote: I want to see the reasons why the observer and queen changes were needed. It's Blizzard, either they will give a silver/bronze league point of view or none at all. | ||
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mrjpark
United States276 Posts
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KookyMonster
United States311 Posts
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tuho12345
4482 Posts
On May 10 2012 11:24 SolidMoose wrote: I still think this patch is totally unnecessary, except MAYBE the overlord speed, That need to fix what actually needs fixing. The queen range isn't even 3-4. It's randomly 3-5. Yeah I agree lol, Queen buff is so unnecessary, obs build time doesn't change much, only help Colossus build faster and make Protoss even stronger in mid game imo. Overlord is okay, help Zerg a bit cuz they seem doing so badly right now. | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On May 10 2012 12:30 s3rp wrote: Don't think this counts as a buff considering it only made Terran unable to spend all their gas in TvP . it means you dont have to mine as much gas, which is more precious than minerals. | ||
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VincendioS
Belgium107 Posts
On May 10 2012 12:30 Flonomenalz wrote: And once you see a committed wall like that, you plop down a 3rd CC because the Zerg isn't taking a third base anytime soon due to that much static defense. And then you are ahead economically. And the problem is....? Please use your mind. There is not problem in the actual TvZ in early/mid game. When you see games from pros, zergs havent hard time spreading their creep. So making a buff of the queen will make it way more easier. So it let the zerg make what the fuck he wants. (taking 3rd drone up) and the Terran just can't deal with it anymore. It forces to go the the late game point where Terran are weaker if they don't got any advantage in the early/mid game. That's the problem. | ||
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SigmaoctanusIV
United States3313 Posts
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Froadac
United States6733 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
On May 10 2012 12:30 Liquid`Jinro wrote: Uh... actually yes, they are outranging reaper bunkers lol And they equal hellions so.... Oh man, really? If so, that's completely atrocious. How is terran gonna put on any pressure early game? | ||
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sertas
Sweden890 Posts
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VincendioS
Belgium107 Posts
On May 10 2012 12:34 dAPhREAk wrote: it means you dont have to mine as much gas, which is more precious than minerals. It means the hardest race to spend gas/mineral is Terran. Cause Protoss and Zerg can fucked up their macro and have tons of gas but still use it (sentry/HT or Infest/bl) | ||
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anonymitylol
Canada4477 Posts
On May 10 2012 12:35 Blazinghand wrote: Oh man, really? If so, that's completely atrocious. How is terran gonna put on any pressure early game? We're not. TvZ is going to be a passive matchup for Terran now, until you get your second base up and start pumping out Medivacs. Really dumb change on the Queens, imo. | ||
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Glenn313
United States475 Posts
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blooblooblahblah
Australia4163 Posts
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